[Kotaku] Death to Fall Damage

In about 2 years you can't die at all anymore. You'll just lose stamina and slow down a bit fir a second.

Seriously, thank God for harscore indiegames and Souls games. The more they punish you, the better they are to beat.

I hate fall damage too. Playing through The Witcher 3 right now, and boy is it annoying when I take damage from what feels like a pretty weak fall.

Im conflicted about in in AC. On one hand its fun to jump from a mountain and live, and it saves me a lot of time. On the other hand it feels daft, and makes me feel like i'm playing with cheats on.

It does feel weird, but I'm in favour of it. I've died so many times from accidental fall damage, and it's not always obvious where you can drop from or not. Sometimes it's uneven, too.

It'll take some time getting used to it, but it's for the best. Odyssey does it well.

dex3108 said:

https://kotaku.com/death-to-fall-damage-1829623960

Interesting opinion from Jason but i just wonder how far should we go? Why not remove combat damage while we are there to remove even more barriers?

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I would love for combat damage to go away

What does, "Alexios if you're basic" mean?

UF_C said:

What does, "Alexios if you're basic" mean?

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He means basic people will choose to play as the male character named Alexios, instead of the female character named Kassandra.

If you need help with "basic": https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Basic

antitrop said:

He means basic people will choose to play as the male character named Alexios, instead of the female character named Kassandra.

If you need help with "basic": https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Basic

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I like Jason and all but that seems a bit rude. I wonder why choosing the male character makes one lame or boring? Kind of surprised he would write that.

Considering AC's new direction it makes sense. You no longer look up and deliberately climb through objects, character sort of slides through every obstacle without you thinking about it so, of course, you shouldn't take fall damage. Personally, I loved planning my route into/through an area and then silently making my way out of there. Made me feel like an actual assassin.

But yeah, if the map and the gameplay loop is designed for it, throw the fall damage away.

dex3108 said:

I just don;t get it why Odyssey is good example either. It is game where you push left stick forward and press A/X button once and that's it. There are not that many places where you can perform parkour in Origins or Odyssey like there were before. Not to mention that Ubisoft solved going down in AC Unity but they never reused it in that capacity again.

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Yeah, that was great. It's amazing how much entries it took for them to finally make a separate climbing down button only to de-emphasize it a few games later. Maybe we'll see them use it extensively again with new entries that feature huge buildings again. I hope. Parkour was one of my favorite features of the AC games.

Jaded Alyx said:

...a game that has fall damage.

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He's probably referencing the glider, which essentially negates fall damage if used right.

I don't think this makes sense for all games, though. It would be completely stupid in, say, Tomb Raider.

UF_C said:

I like Jason and all but that seems a bit rude. I wonder why choosing the male character makes one lame or boring? Kind of surprised he would write that.

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One of the more common criticisms of Assassin's Creed as a series was that, after AC2 and the popularity of Ezio, Ubisoft just kind of kept making characters like Ezio over and over again. Adding female protagonists was a good way to shake things up.

Nah, it works where it makes sense.
Imagine something like RDR without fall damage, that sounds shit.

dex3108 said:

I just don;t get it why Odyssey is good example either. It is game where you push left stick forward and press A/X button once and that's it. There are not that many places where you can perform parkour in Origins or Odyssey like there were before. Not to mention that Ubisoft solved going down in AC Unity but they never reused it in that capacity again.

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Unity deserves a second chance. I hate the route Origins went but I enjoyed it enough. Not touching Odyssey at all though.
Unity's parkour was amazing.

Fall damage has resulted in the most frustrating / hilarious deaths since I've started gaming.

I don't mind fall damage but the damage in Odyssey is a bit weird, I can get falling from the buttcheeks of zeus or a mountain but you hurt your self from jumping of two story buildings, I don't remember this being a thing in the past.

Always game dependent.

It works extremely well alongside the other systems in Spelunky.

Witcher 3 definitely doesnt need it

It's a fair point that in a game that encourages climbing, it's a bit frustrating to make it a pain to get down once you're up there! Don't discourage the very mechanic you're encouraging.

That said, I thought AC had *mostly* done it well in the past with reasonably well-placed Leap of Faith locations, but even so, I've occasionally come a cropper when I've missed the alignment somewhat and flung myself just a few metres to the side of the haystack!

As someone who makes it a mission to climb things they aren't supposed to climb in games, I don't like that. I feel it takes away from the danger of exploring heights and removes the risk involved. There is both a challenge in climbing up something when it entails the punishment of death, just as much as finding a way back down something can entail its own challenge as well. Sure, it can be done away with in certain games if the developers want to allow that level of freedom in the exploration of their games, but it shouldn't become the norm and done away with for good. It's not some universal bad design that the article likes to make it out to be. That's just a silly notion, Kotaku person.

AC game should be some what realistic, no fall damage seems bit odd. If you don't take game too seriously it might be ok, but i don't like the sound of that.
Are we moving more and more arcade style gaming, even with a serious franchises, i don't think it's good thing for more serious gamers.

antitrop said:

One of the more common criticisms of Assassin's Creed as a series was that, after AC2 and the popularity of Ezio, Ubisoft just kind of kept making characters like Ezio over and over again. Adding female protagonists was a good way to shake things up.

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I agree completely that more diversity and more choice in general is a great thing, especially after the uproar of Ubinsaying creating a female was too difficult. But in the end why create more choice if one of the options is going to be referred to as basic? Jason should know better.

Small nitpick, I know.

dex3108 said:

I just don;t get it why Odyssey is good example either. It is game where you push left stick forward and press A/X button once and that's it. There are not that many places where you can perform parkour in Origins or Odyssey like there were before. Not to mention that Ubisoft solved going down in AC Unity but they never reused it in that capacity again.

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this was absolutely jaw-dropping in 2014. Unity could've been good but clearly needed an extra 6-12 months in the oven.

really hope AC returns to urban environments with an emphasis on free-running one day

dex3108 said:

https://kotaku.com/death-to-fall-damage-1829623960

Interesting opinion from Jason but i just wonder how far should we go? Why not remove combat damage while we are there to remove even more barriers?

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None of the Arkham games have fall damage. Spider-Man PS4 doesn't have it either.

Games can still be challenging/immersive even without fall damage.

Mobu said:

Witcher 3 definitely doesnt need it

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Haha, fall damage was my most common source of death at the beginning I think. Didn't they nerf it a bit though?

How else am I going to kill my self in games for punishment after I mess something up?

Quexlaw said:

I will never get that attitude.

Gaming and fun are inherently linked to challenge, limits and restrictions.
Games in which you've seen everything, done everything, achieved everything and essentially reached god mode make the games just.. not fun anymore.

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*Looks at nearly every Dishonored or walking sim game*

Nope.

I agree in context of single player games like that.

To me its the same with having loot weight in other rpgs, especially ones like TES/Witcher, etc where you pick up a LOT of shit. It's just not fun to be in a dungeon and picking up loot just to suddenly move super-slow and then realize you've picked up too much stuff and now you have to go through and drop some shit and sort it all out.

However in MP games, or specific games designed around environmental dangers (IE Dark Souls/Bloodborne) I understand why having fall dmg makes sense in those.

Just for big open world games that have you exploring though? The lack of fall dmg is a plus imo, it promotes more exploration and just lets you do things you otherwise wouldn't do when exploring, like jumping off really really tall mountains to get somewhere quicker instead of taking a slower way down.

dex3108 said:

They solved that issue in Unity. But for some reason they caned it in games after, especially in Origins and Odyssey.

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Ah, I've not actually got to Unity yet, it's next on my play order after the Chronicles trilogy.

UF_C said:

I agree completely that more diversity and more choice in general is a great thing, especially after the uproar of Ubinsaying creating a female was too difficult. But in the end why create more choice if one of the options is going to be referred to as basic? Jason should know better.

Small nitpick, I know.

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You're reading far far far too much into this. He was probably just saying he preferred Kassandra with a quote referencing the show The Good Place, which uses that phrase a few times in a "this a lame insult" way.

Jason said:

or Alexios if you're basic

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Really, Jason?

Fall damage should still be there but thr character should get some gameplay mechanism to eliminate that like the glider from Breath of the Wild.

Strangely enough, I like fall damage.

This has nothing to do with the fact that I hate falling in games because it makes me feel a bit of vertigo. Not at all.

Didn't know you can't die from falling in Odyssey

I don't like that at all. Why has everything to be dumbed down nowadays?

Disagree, though it can be annoying, its also a challenge and something you have to adhere to

It was always hilariously immersion breaking in TW3. Super strong/resilient mutant with gazelle speed and cat reflexes, dies if he jumps from a ledge higher than five feet.

I agree to a certain extent. Like destiny fall damage is stupid. You are the super powerful guardian who can jump high af and do all the magical things. Yet u take fall damage lol it's so stupid to me.

It depends on the context. If the story is about a character who has gravity power, then fall damage doesnt make sense

Some certain games also must provide time limited qte to determine whether the fall requires damahe or not

I'm in the 'less realism=better game' camp, so I'm all for it.

Ehoavash said:

Yeah that's nice. I like that

Still in botw it was pretty funny

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I see shit like this and it just brings a smile to my face.

BOTW is such an amazing game and sandbox.

Good. Fall damage sucks, especially in the Assassin Creed series where you can easily jump off some wall by a accident and fall to your death. Lame "feature" for the sake of realism in unrealistic video games

I absolutely agree. Especially in something like AC where being able to climb everything is such a big part of the game, it only makes sense to me that getting down from anywhere shouldn't be a big hassle since there's nothing quite like getting somewhere high up only to then have to carefully chart your way down lest you fall from a little too high up, die, and get sent right back up there like some twisted purgatory.

I don't mind fall damage when it's not done in a way that your character dies from the smallest height like in TW3.
I do really like the skill in Odyssey where you don't take any dmg at all though.

Fall damage is a must as even though games are fantasy based we should never forget the power of gravity.

I fucking LOVE this in AC Odyssey. Watching Kassandra gracefully throw out a somersault and roll after launching her off a cliff is a joy every time. One of the best quality of life features they've ever introduced.

The evolution of press A to win.

It was only a matter of time.

For me it depends on the game, Witcher 3's fall damage is absurd while I love it in Souls games, then there's FFXIV, fall damage can kill you if you're in combat, out of combat it drops you to 1HP minimum. I think Dragon Age Inquisition was super weird about it, fall damage can kill you on foot, but if you're mounted you can jump off a cliff and survive.

I'm all for removing fall damage in games that are largely about exploration and climbing.

ket said:

None of the Arkham games have fall damage. Spider-Man PS4 doesn't have it either.

Games can still be challenging/immersive even without fall damage.

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The question is not whether it can be done, it's whether it makes sense. Spider-Man has super humans strength and dexterity, Batman has a cape that allows him to glide. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Removing it completely sounds stupid and kind of defeats the point of having high places on the map....maybe just give some kind of glading mechanic like both or the Askham series to facilitate going away from an high spot afterror climbing

Kuro said:

All that work trying to make a real believable world for you to take no fall damage jumping from 100+ feet. Would make a lot more sense if there was hay to drop into.

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My Kassandra gallops around Greece on the back of a unicorn that leaves glittery pink trails beneath its hoofs. Not dying from fall damage isn't breaking the believability of the game for me.