Did changing MSG to Umami make it automatically okay?

Brodo Baggins · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I stand corrected, but Chinese food as a food genre is still the least appetizing East Asian food by a county mile.

Have you only ever eaten Panda Express or what? Going to go out on a limb here and say you haven't actually explored much Chinese food, because "Chinese" covers a huge spectrum of food with tons of different flavor profiles and most of it you get in the States only barely qualifies as Chinese. If we're talking about PF Changs/Panda Express garbage that is much more American than it is Chinese.

Jerm · Oct 8, 2018

Marie said:
What is "chinese" food to you?

Like there's so many different cuisine in china alone that there is no way anybody can just generalize without sounding like an ignorant asshat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cuisine

I don't wanna assume for this particular poster but I would guarantee 90% of the US pictures Chinese-American buffets and Panda Express/PF Chang's when they think "chinese" food.

Squarehard · Oct 8, 2018

Umami super healthy.

erlim · Oct 8, 2018

Labor said:
I'm starting to think the whole misunderstanding about umami explains why unseasoned food prevails in parts of America

Someone must have cursed your tongue as a baby

Jackie Chan said:
Have you only ever eaten Panda Express or what? Going to go out on a limb here and say you haven't actually explored much Chinese food, because "Chinese" covers a huge spectrum of food with tons of different flavor profiles and most of it you get in the States only barely qualifies as Chinese. If we're talking about PF Changs/Panda Express garbage that is much more American than it is Chinese.

I like the dirivitives some ethnic Chinese populations have put forth in places like Malaysia and Singapore, and some of the spicy dishes from west China that I tried in New York, but the stuff I've had around Shanghai always destroyed my insides and fucks my digestive system. Either really sparse or just way way way way too greasy beyond even American fast food cuisine.

Honestly, to me, the best Chinese food IS Panda Express. At least it's consistent and prepared in a clean environment.

Deleted member 15326 · Oct 8, 2018

Marie · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I like the dirivitives some ethnic Chinese populations have put forth in places like Malaysia and Singapore, and some of the spicy dishes from west China that I tried in New York, but the stuff I've had around Shanghai always destroyed my insides and fucks my digestive system. Either really sparse or just way way way way too greasy beyond even American fast food cuisine.

Honestly, to me, the best Chinese food IS Panda Express. At least it's consistent and prepared in a clean environment.

Lol? Not sure how to reply to this subtle racist dig.

Yeah Malaysian restaurant are consistently clean, just not chinese ones according to you.

Lol?

args · Oct 8, 2018

for everyone except OP: anytime you feel dumb, just remember, at least you didn't create this thread

erlim · Oct 8, 2018

Marie said:
Lol? Not sure how to reply to this subtle racist dig.

Yeah Malaysian restaurant are consistently clean, just not chinese ones according to you.

Lol?

I don't know. There's just too many Chinese restaurants that I've been to that have the odor and musk of a men's hockey locker room. That somewhat sour taste of rice vinegar makes me wretch in those conditions. Laugh all you want, but your typical Panda Express does NOT have that vibe at all. I legit do thank Panda Express, PF Chang's, and even the Chinese food items at Pei Wei are legit better than your rank and file Chinese restaurant. Probably less MSG too.

Edit: also Din Tai Fung in LA is a great restaurant, but that's Taiwanese.

Marie · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I don't know. There's just too many Chinese restaurants that I've been to that have the odor and musk of a men's hockey locker room. Laugh all you want, but your typical Panda Express does NOT have that vibe at all.

Edit: also Din Tai Fung in LA is a great restaurant, but that's Taiwanese.

Keep going.

Also DTF (while being a restauraunt that originated in Taiwan) serves chinese food. But nice try in diminishing credit to chinese cuisine.

Keldroc · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I stand corrected, but Chinese food as a food genre is still the least appetizing East Asian food by a county mile.

Odds are you've never had Chinese food, just the US-invented permutation. Most of what you find at a typical US Chinese restaurant was invented in the US by Chinese immigrants, and doesn't bear much resemblance to what someone in China would consider traditional Chinese dishes.

erlim · Oct 8, 2018

Keldroc said:
Odds are you've never had Chinese food, just the US-invented permutation. Most of what you find at a typical US Chinese restaurant was invented in the US.

I remember as a kid going around mainland China and having boiled chicken on white rice at government mandated restaurants for the entire time. Then went on to Hong Kong, and while I could appreciate the variety of cuisine in principle, I nearly died from the overload of insane grease. Every time I've gone to mainland China, I just can't stand the stuff they eat every day. My body can't handle it and it ends up feeling super gross. The US invented stuff like Honey Walnut shrimp, I would take ANYDAY over any domestic food I've had while abroad in China. But so many of the Chinese restaurants in America aren't up to any kind of sanitary standards.

I don't mean to offend, but Chinese food is the most unappetizing cuisine I've ever had or can think of. So many dishes come to mind just lathered in greasy mucusy oil membrane stuff. Give me fresh fish with a little olive oil anyday, please.

I get tremendously excited trying new food when I travel, and maybe it's just personal history with Chinese food, but I would definitely avoid another trip to China based around any kind of culinary experience. To me it seems like begging for food poisoning.

And this coming from a guy who loves shellfish and oysters and back when I ate red meat would go in on beef/bison tartar. Chinese food is too far though. I dunno honestly, it wouldn't be a staggering find to see that MSG does have some physiological effect under more testing.

Marie · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I remember as a kid going around mainland China and having boiled chicken on white rice at government mandated restaurants for the entire time. Then went on to Hong Kong, and while I could appreciate the variety of cuisine in principle, I nearly died from the overload of insane grease. Every time I've gone to mainland China, I just can't stand the stuff they eat every day. My body can't handle it and it ends up feeling super gross. The US invented stuff like Honey Walnut shrimp, I would take ANYDAY over any domestic food I've had while abroad in China. But so many of the Chinese restaurants in America aren't up to any kind of sanitary standards.

I don't mean to offend, but Chinese food is the most unappetizing cuisine I've ever had or can think of. So many dishes come to mind just lathered in greasy mucusy oil membrane stuff.

I get tremendously excited trying new food when I travel, and maybe it's just personal history with Chinese food, but I would definitely avoid another trip to China based around any kind of culinary experience. To me it seems like begging for food poisoning.

And this coming from a guy who loves shellfish and oysters and back when I ate red meat would go in on beef/bison tartar. Chinese food is too far though. I dunno honestly, it wouldn't be a staggering find to see that MSG does have some physiological effect under more testing.

Your racism is showing.

erlim · Oct 8, 2018

Marie said:
Your racism is showing.

Look fwiw I got violently ill at dominos one time and I also avoid them. I just have a horrid history with Chinese cuisine. I appreciate their culture of taking guests out for food, it's just not very good food (to me).

Marie · Oct 8, 2018

Guys, I think Italian cuisine is terrible compared to its superior European brothers. Italian food is so greasy and they have poor sanitation.

But if I have to say, Pizza Hut and Olive Garden are my best experience in Italian food. Atleast the place is clean and I don't have constant diarrhea.

VeryHighlander · Oct 8, 2018

Nothing is wrong with MSG and most places changing to "no msg added" to appease "health aware citizens" was fucking dumb

whatsinaname · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I really don't like Chinese food, so I guess I'm not taking in pure MSG often. Japanese food on the whole and the idea behind the flavor profile of Umami is dope though.

erlim said:
I stand corrected, but Chinese food as a food genre is still the least appetizing East Asian food by a county mile.

erlim said:
I like the dirivitives some ethnic Chinese populations have put forth in places like Malaysia and Singapore, and some of the spicy dishes from west China that I tried in New York, but the stuff I've had around Shanghai always destroyed my insides and fucks my digestive system. Either really sparse or just way way way way too greasy beyond even American fast food cuisine.

Honestly, to me, the best Chinese food IS Panda Express. At least it's consistent and prepared in a clean environment.

erlim said:
I don't know. There's just too many Chinese restaurants that I've been to that have the odor and musk of a men's hockey locker room. That somewhat sour taste of rice vinegar makes me wretch in those conditions. Laugh all you want, but your typical Panda Express does NOT have that vibe at all. I legit do thank Panda Express, PF Chang's, and even the Chinese food items at Pei Wei are legit better than your rank and file Chinese restaurant. Probably less MSG too.

Edit: also Din Tai Fung in LA is a great restaurant, but that's Taiwanese.

erlim said:
I remember as a kid going around mainland China and having boiled chicken on white rice at government mandated restaurants for the entire time. Then went on to Hong Kong, and while I could appreciate the variety of cuisine in principle, I nearly died from the overload of insane grease. Every time I've gone to mainland China, I just can't stand the stuff they eat every day. My body can't handle it and it ends up feeling super gross. The US invented stuff like Honey Walnut shrimp, I would take ANYDAY over any domestic food I've had while abroad in China. But so many of the Chinese restaurants in America aren't up to any kind of sanitary standards.

I don't mean to offend, but Chinese food is the most unappetizing cuisine I've ever had or can think of. So many dishes come to mind just lathered in greasy mucusy oil membrane stuff. Give me fresh fish with a little olive oil anyday, please.

I get tremendously excited trying new food when I travel, and maybe it's just personal history with Chinese food, but I would definitely avoid another trip to China based around any kind of culinary experience. To me it seems like begging for food poisoning.

And this coming from a guy who loves shellfish and oysters and back when I ate red meat would go in on beef/bison tartar. Chinese food is too far though. I dunno honestly, it wouldn't be a staggering find to see that MSG does have some physiological effect under more testing.

erlim said:
Look fwiw I got violently ill at dominos one time and I also avoid them. I just have a horrid history with Chinese cuisine. I appreciate their culture of taking guests out for food, it's just not very good food (to me).

SapientWolf · Oct 8, 2018

VeryHighlander said:
Nothing is wrong with MSG and most places changing to "no msg added" to appease "health aware citizens" was fucking dumb

Taking MSG without food on an empty stomach wouldn't work out very well, but the overwhelming majority of the population can handle it just fine in food.

I think people latch onto it because it's a chemical additive. If it was called mushroom powder or something you wouldn't see so many people saying that it gave them problems.

darkhunger · Oct 8, 2018

To be fair, typical Chinese restaurant stir fry does rely on high heat+tons of oil to impart flavor, and certain cuisines also heavily use chili oil to add heat. All of this results in overly greasy food sometimes.

Nonetheless there are a ton of non-stirfry dishes out there and a real Chinese restaurant always has plenty of steamed or boiled menu items as well, so it's unfair to say Chinese food is "always" greasy.

Septimus Prime · Oct 8, 2018

One time, I was making a pot of jujube tea at my in-laws' house, and I dumped in a heaping helping of MSG, thinking it was sugar. It didn't make the tea taste umami. Just gross.

lint2015 · Oct 8, 2018

SABO. said:
Isn't the negativity around MSG fuelled by racism?

erlim said:
I really don't like Chinese food, so I guess I'm not taking in pure MSG often. Japanese food on the whole and the idea behind the flavor profile of Umami is dope though.

erlim said:
I stand corrected, but Chinese food as a food genre is still the least appetizing East Asian food by a county mile.

Yep.

Lunaray · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I really don't like Chinese food, so I guess I'm not taking in pure MSG often. Japanese food on the whole and the idea behind the flavor profile of Umami is dope though.

erlim said:
I stand corrected, but Chinese food as a food genre is still the least appetizing East Asian food by a county mile.

erlim said:
I don't know. There's just too many Chinese restaurants that I've been to that have the odor and musk of a men's hockey locker room. That somewhat sour taste of rice vinegar makes me wretch in those conditions. Laugh all you want, but your typical Panda Express does NOT have that vibe at all. I legit do thank Panda Express, PF Chang's, and even the Chinese food items at Pei Wei are legit better than your rank and file Chinese restaurant. Probably less MSG too.

Edit: also Din Tai Fung in LA is a great restaurant, but that's Taiwanese.

erlim said:
I remember as a kid going around mainland China and having boiled chicken on white rice at government mandated restaurants for the entire time. Then went on to Hong Kong, and while I could appreciate the variety of cuisine in principle, I nearly died from the overload of insane grease. Every time I've gone to mainland China, I just can't stand the stuff they eat every day. My body can't handle it and it ends up feeling super gross. The US invented stuff like Honey Walnut shrimp, I would take ANYDAY over any domestic food I've had while abroad in China. But so many of the Chinese restaurants in America aren't up to any kind of sanitary standards.

I don't mean to offend, but Chinese food is the most unappetizing cuisine I've ever had or can think of. So many dishes come to mind just lathered in greasy mucusy oil membrane stuff. Give me fresh fish with a little olive oil anyday, please.

I get tremendously excited trying new food when I travel, and maybe it's just personal history with Chinese food, but I would definitely avoid another trip to China based around any kind of culinary experience. To me it seems like begging for food poisoning.

And this coming from a guy who loves shellfish and oysters and back when I ate red meat would go in on beef/bison tartar. Chinese food is too far though. I dunno honestly, it wouldn't be a staggering find to see that MSG does have some physiological effect under more testing.

Can you stop with your problematic and racist cultural generalizations? You realize there's no one "Chinese" cuisine to describe what 20% of the world eats right? It's like eating a shitty chips butty and saying that you hate "European food".

S-Wind · Oct 8, 2018

SABO. said:
Isn't the negativity around MSG fuelled by racism?

Yes.

And ignorance.

Racism and ignorance .

see5harp · Oct 8, 2018

Who in the fuck dislikes Chinese food? What in the actual fuck?

lint2015 · Oct 8, 2018

Lunaray said:
Can you stop with your problematic and racist cultural generalizations? You realize there's no one "Chinese" cuisine to describe what 20% of the world eats right? It's like eating a shitty chips butty and saying that you hate "European food".

I like how they're like "Oh but there's Din Tai Fung which is alright... but that's Taiwanese food of course."

Can't be Chinese food, otherwise it'd obviously be gross too. Fuck outta here with that shit.

konka · Oct 8, 2018

This is an awful thread.

see5harp · Oct 8, 2018

This dude started with the I don't eat MSG often and now is trying to back track listing all of these other Asian cuisines like anyone will actually believe dude knows what he is talking about. Hold that L homie.

Narroo · Oct 8, 2018

Marie said:
Your racism is showing.

whatsinaname said:

So, the guy travels to China, seemingly several times, and is racist or dumb because he hated the food there?

Deleted member 15326 · Oct 8, 2018

Narroo said:
So, the guy travels to China, seemingly several times, and is racist or dumb because he hated the food there?

Not saying he's necessarily racist or dumb (although his taste buds are off) but traveling to a place frequently doesn't preclude racism

whatsinaname · Oct 8, 2018

Narroo said:
So, the guy travels to China, seemingly several times, and is racist or dumb because he hated the food there?

I said 'stop posting' because there is a lot of inconsistency and even irrationality in those posts. You can of course dislike the dominant flavour profiles of certain cuisines. (e.g., some people don't like the spice or masala flavours in certain Indian cuisines). He says he prefers the americanized Chinese flavours, no big deal. But to conflate that with general hygiene of Chinese restaurants - in America and in China?! And greasiness - which is going to be restaurant specific? He then praises many other closely related cuisines (who all use MSG) and then says there's some "psychological effect" in MSG in Chinese food?

I personally don't really infer racism from those series of posts but there are definitely parts of it which are suspect.

Prinz Eugn · Oct 8, 2018

erlim said:
I remember as a kid going around mainland China and having boiled chicken on white rice at government mandated restaurants for the entire time. Then went on to Hong Kong, and while I could appreciate the variety of cuisine in principle, I nearly died from the overload of insane grease. Every time I've gone to mainland China, I just can't stand the stuff they eat every day. My body can't handle it and it ends up feeling super gross. The US invented stuff like Honey Walnut shrimp, I would take ANYDAY over any domestic food I've had while abroad in China. But so many of the Chinese restaurants in America aren't up to any kind of sanitary standards.

I don't mean to offend, but Chinese food is the most unappetizing cuisine I've ever had or can think of. So many dishes come to mind just lathered in greasy mucusy oil membrane stuff. Give me fresh fish with a little olive oil anyday, please.

I get tremendously excited trying new food when I travel, and maybe it's just personal history with Chinese food, but I would definitely avoid another trip to China based around any kind of culinary experience. To me it seems like begging for food poisoning.

And this coming from a guy who loves shellfish and oysters and back when I ate red meat would go in on beef/bison tartar. Chinese food is too far though. I dunno honestly, it wouldn't be a staggering find to see that MSG does have some physiological effect under more testing.

It's your personal history. Sounds like you were on official tours where they served you pseudo-"western" food, which is usually hot garbage in China because no one knows how to prepare it. The worst food I had in China was at an "American" restaurant where I'm pretty sure they only had pictures for reference ("looks like hamburger meat to me!"). Like, if you gets forks without asking, it's a bad sign.

As a white American who has spent two months total in China travelling around a fair bit, most Chinese food has been incredible and the regional diversity is huge, so not liking "Chinese" food in general is basically nonsensical. Beijing/Hebei has pretty different food than Xi'an/Shaanxi or Shanghai/Zhejiang.

Grease is kind of a bizarre complaint when your exemplar american chinese food is fried shrimp.

curiouscharles · Oct 8, 2018

Theres nothing wrong with MSG.

Its probably feared because of racism or something - I really dont know.

(My dad's a doctor and loves telling me about MSG in particular for some reason - love you pops!)

Qvoth · Oct 8, 2018

umami is more a feeling rather than a flavor imo
in parts unknown, bourdain asked this japanese chef and he replied umami is the essence

demondance · Oct 8, 2018

I know a cook at a restaurant my parents love, and they layer on the MSG there. Then when they eat Chinese they're moaning about MSG headaches every time.

And it's definitely not the sodium headache thing that some blame. They pile the salt on everything they eat, like double what I would handle.

I just don't say anything. People get these hangups and refuse to let them go no matter what.

It's a racist placebo thing for sure.

mm04 · Oct 9, 2018

Well, if anything, this thread reminded me that I have an unopened Umami shaker in my pantry that I need to use on some steak.

Aztechnology · Oct 9, 2018

Umami is a part of taste reception. MSG is something that stimulates those receptors but not Umami itself. I did a research report on Umami a while back. Really fascinating. There's a lot more that we don't know about yet.

345 · Oct 9, 2018

SABO. said:
Isn't the negativity around MSG fuelled by racism?

there are definitely a lot of people in asia that are philosophically against MSG, but mostly because it's seen as kind of cheating. i don't think anyone considers it dangerous.

Beer Monkey · Oct 9, 2018

MSG is fine, I always have Accent in my spice rack.

SABO. · Oct 9, 2018

345 said:
there are definitely a lot of people in asia that are philosophically against MSG, but mostly because it's seen as kind of cheating. i don't think anyone considers it dangerous.

Im pretty sure that jn the Western World the idea of MSG causing headaches was because of racist fuelled propaganda due to USA's dislike of China.

Vern · Oct 9, 2018

erlim said:
I stand corrected, but Chinese food as a food genre is still the least appetizing East Asian food by a county mile.

Chinese food isn't even a genre. There are so many different types of Chinese cuisines if you just say Chinese food it's effectively meaningless.

erlim · Oct 9, 2018

Vern said:
Chinese food isn't even a genre. There are so many different types of Chinese cuisines if you just say Chinese food it's effectively meaningless.

Then in that case, I find Chinese American Food, Dim Sum, Shanghainese (I guess it's called Hu cuisine), Peking duck, and whatever the food that's served in Northeasern Chinese cities, perhaps it's Manchurian, are all completely unappetizing bordering on disgusting.

If you like those dishes or grew up on them, I don't mean to say you're gross, I just can't do them. I have had so many wonderful culinary experiences in East Asia, but I can't truthfully say I've had a positive dining experience in mainland China, nor what is popularly presented as traditional Chinese food.

I don't know to what degree this is because o MSG. I've never measured it or analyzed the food for content. I don't know if there's a physiological (not psychological as somebody mentioned) effect on the body, but left to my own devices, I will always stay clear of the aforementioned foods which have always wrecked my insides.

Deleted member 2109 · Oct 9, 2018

I've only ever heard people talk about msg in sitcoms or movies.

Eating leftover veggie lo mein right now. it's so good.

Vern · Oct 9, 2018

erlim said:
Then in that case, I find Chinese American Food, Dim Sum, Shanghainese (I guess it's called Hu cuisine), Peking duck, and whatever the food that's served in Northeasern Chinese cities, perhaps it's Manchurian, are all completely unappetizing bordering on disgusting.

If you like those dishes or grew up on them, I don't mean to say you're gross, I just can't do them. I have had so many wonderful culinary experiences in East Asia, but I can't truthfully say I've had a positive dining experience in mainland China, nor what is popularly presented as traditional Chinese food in other places.

I don't know to what degree this is because o MSG. I've never measured it or analyzed the food for content. I don't know if there's a physiological (not psychological as somebody mentioned) effect on the body, but left to my own devices, I will always stay clear of the aforementioned foods.

I didn't grow up on Chinese food but I've lived and worked in china over 6 years now and can say I've only had a handful of bad dining experiences. If you can't find amazing food in china you are doing something severely wrong.

erlim · Oct 9, 2018

Vern said:
I didn't grow up on Chinese food but I've lived and worked in china over 6 years now and can say I've only had a handful of bad dining experiences. If you can't find amazing food in china you are doing something severely wrong.

Did it take you an adjustment period? Whenever I've ever gone to China, even as a child, I've pretty much gotten too sick and stopped eating food after the onslaught of traditional cuisine. I've typically stayed there on three week increments, and never found any degree of enjoyment around local meals, or the dishes that are considered quintessential Chinese dishes and exported around the world. On my last trip to China, I can clearly remember begging my hosts to take me for a different kind of food, going to a sushi restaurant feeling like somebody tossed me a life preserver.

Deleted member 27246 · Oct 9, 2018

I never heard the term MSG to be honest, but I assume reading this it is the same as Ve Tsin or E-621?

jwhit28 · Oct 9, 2018

Isn't Goya Sazon full of MSG? I know some familys that rub that on every cut of meat.

Deleted member 1589 · Oct 9, 2018

erlim said:
Did it take you an adjustment period? Whenever I've ever gone to China, even as a child, I've pretty much gotten too sick and stopped eating food after the onslaught of traditional cuisine. I've typically stayed there on three week increments, and never found any degree of enjoyment around local meals, or the dishes that are considered quintessential Chinese dishes and exported around the world. On my last trip to China, I can clearly remember begging my hosts to take me for a different kind of food, going to a sushi restaurant feeling like somebody tossed me a life preserver.

Eh, it's just not your kind of thing, it happens.

Vern · Oct 9, 2018

erlim said:
Did it take you an adjustment period? Whenever I've ever gone to China, even as a child, I've pretty much gotten too sick and stopped eating food after the onslaught of traditional cuisine. I've typically stayed there on three week increments, and never found any degree of enjoyment around local meals, or the dishes that are considered quintessential Chinese dishes and exported around the world. On my last trip to China, I can clearly remember begging my hosts to take me for a different kind of food, going to a sushi restaurant feeling like somebody tossed me a life preserver.

Nope. I dove right in eating everything and I'm still going strong.

Next time you come to China try some Yunnan food. It's the best. Dongbei and Xinjiang are also awesome, and since you like Din Tai Fung if you ever come back to shanghai try some local xiaolongbao shops which are usually just as good if not better. But seriously though there are way too many chinese foods to say you don't like chinese food. It's ridiculous.

furikuri · Oct 9, 2018

args said:
for everyone except OP: anytime you feel dumb, just remember, at least you didn't create this thread

Also, remember that no matter how dumb you think you are, there's always someone dumber, as evidenced by the poster making wild generalizations about Chinese cuisine.

butzopower · Oct 9, 2018

Getting banned on ERA for having bad taste. Kinda bummed, I felt like we were getting to the bottom of what specific flavors the poster wasn't in to. Was gonna see if he didn't like Korean food, or kimchi at least. Would be weird for someone to like kimchi but dislike some of the vinegary Chinese dishes, in my opinion.

S-Wind · Oct 9, 2018

butzopower said:
Getting banned on ERA for having bad taste. Kinda bummed, I felt like we were getting to the bottom of what specific flavors the poster wasn't in to. Was gonna see if he didn't like Korean food, or kimchi at least. Would be weird for someone to like kimchi but dislike some of the vinegary Chinese dishes, in my opinion.

No, not for having bad taste.

His insinuation that over 1.4 billion people in China don't know how to prepare food in a clean space had me report his post.

Dude was already flying very close to the sun with some of his comments in this thread....

Did changing MSG to Umami make it automatically okay?

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