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New Switch model coming in second half of 2019, reports Japanese WSJ
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Well fp16 will do a lot of work, and Nvidia flops are much better than AMD's 2011 GPUs found in XB1 and PS4. You're right that 900GFLOPs won't be as powerful as the Xb1, but under some circumstances, it will out perform the XB1. Also remember that the XB1 launched at 1228GFLOPs, got the minor overclock to 1331GFLOPs (current XB1) and the XB1S is 1400GFLOPs. This new Switch will be closer to all of these devices than the XB1 is to the base 1843GFLOPs PS4. But until the 3rd Switch is released, I don't see Exclusives as a feature of next year's model. Though I could be wrong about that.
Right. I just fear people overselling and overhyping this revision as being something as powerful as a base Xbox One. That's not a scenario that will happen. A system that is 1.75-2.5x the current Switch is the most likely scenario we see happen. A decent enough jump for resolution boosts and general performance increases. The 3DS vs. N3DS remains the best comparison to use, but folks also need to remember that while most 3DS games didn't see considerable benefits from the N3DS, thanks to dynamic resolution of current Switch games, we'll see such benefits immediately with a Switch Pro revision. Hyrule Warriors 3DS vs N3DS is a good example of what to expect.
Yep the problem is some old amd team people pushing a ridiculous over powered narrative. I find a certain YouTuber to be very frustrating, but I think that we can drive home the performance difference without underselling it too.
Agree. If we see Doom at a locked 720p in undocked and 900p docked at 30fps, I think that's a good enough boost for people to see the benefits of the revision.
It's like some people just don't possess the facilities to comment on stuff like this. Think about it, "Switch"-ing is the whole point of the system! Releasing a handheld-only Switch would be like putting out a 3DS that doesn't do 3D.
I'll just keep the switch I have as far as handheld mode I still to this day haven't really even used it it's been hooked to my tv the entire time so the handheld screen improving doesn't really benefit me at all.
Yep, and at best it will do 1080p, the goal Nintendo had for the Switch was 720p undocked to 1080p docked, that's all we should expect and I actually find it near impossible that we will get any better than that if the next switch runs at the current Switch's docked performance on the go.
I won't rule out a very minor 20% increase to the GPU to just bring the docked performance high enough to match a undocked 720p game to 1080p when docked... Problem here is that console gamers might not see this as a viable upgrade, all those switch stands and bezel shrinks won't mean anything to someone who never takes the switch out of the dock.
And again, Nintendo would just use X2 for that. Mariko doesn't make sense to me if X2 can do it.
720p is what both target currently (and don't hit) so at minimum you'd expect that, unless of course the games need a patch to allow the extra juice to be accessed.
Yeah, but there are people thinking this system will be a full generation leap.
Right. 900p docked is a best case scenario for something like Doom. Even 720p with a locked 30fps would be a considerable improvement.
For me the most exciting thing about a Pro situation is that all games from Nintendo will run amazing on it, considering Nintendo design games to ensure they run great even on lowest settings.
Well 885GFLOPs is all that is needed to take a 720p docked Switch (393GFLOPs) game to 1080p. The thing to remember about GPUs though, they usually have a base clock multiplier, this one likely maintains the 76.8mhz multiplier, so 786GFLOPs with 768mhz (current Switch clocks), 906GFLOPs with 885mhz, and 944GFLOPs with 921mhz (Foxconn leak)
to be honest, I want Mario Kart 8 Deluxe to play 4 player local play at 60fps, that's really the most exciting thing to me atm. Lol and I don't think Nintendo will do it.
Valid point. But since Doom wasn't always 720p while docked, I could still see it fall just shy of 1080p -- depending on the configuration we get from the revision.
Do people really want 2x more powerful instead of Switch's components using 1/2 as much electricity?
This is what makes sense with what Nintendo had said about wanting to keep the Switch around for a decade. They're gonna need to revise it and give it more power as the other consoles upgrade. They'll always be trailing by a lot but I don't think they'll ever want to be in that same position they were in with the Wii where 3rd party games had to be pretty much different games entirely
The Switch's graphics are really good enough... Would like to see R&D that focused on using even less electricity instead of a power boost for resolution gains.
If that's possible.
If that's possible.
So it wouldn't be possible to run games in their docked setting while undocked if they went with the X2 and wanted to keep at least the same power draw? Damn.I have been playing around with the info available on the Switch and the X2 and I've got two possible scenarios for a Switch with a X2 SoC. Of course my calculations contain a lot of simplications but I think they could be reasonably close to the hipothetical real thing:
Fourth column is a "new Switch" focused on more power with the same battery usage as the current one. It's around a 60% improvement on GPU along with a bit faster CPU AMD double memory bus width and bandwith. They could also increase RAM to 8GB.
Fifth column is a Switch with a bit better CPU and GPU and with the same memory improvements I mentioned before. It would have around 30% more battery life and less heating docked. Maybe the fans could be removed and add extra battery improving battery life further.
Adding 2 more versions to games is a bad idea, I don't think they should do a Pro model unless they can turn the existing docked versions of games into undocked for the new hardware and just add one optional "Pro docked" setting for devs that want to use it. If they end up going with an X2 and your stuff here is correct then I hope they just go with the "Max Battery" option for undocked and instead of creating a new undocked version of games they just naturally run better thanks to the modest bump in power, but then do the "Max Power" option for docked still. Not exactly what I want from a Pro model, since the main thing I want is to play the current docked version of games in handheld mode, but at least this wouldn't cause devs to have to make 2 more versions of games.
Problem is, that only benefits the handheld side of the hybrid, and you can increase the battery life and double the power at the same time thanks to 20nm sucking so much.
Wii and Wii U weren't compatible with many engines and tools available to the developers of the other systems. As such, the amount of software was limited since ports weren't really possible.
One of my most desired but not-so-flashy features would be a variable refresh rate screen. It would help save a small amount of battery life, and also eliminate screen tear/stutters at the same time. Nvidia laptops implement module-free g-sync so the technological basis is absolutely there if Nintendo wants to include it, and it's something you could do system-level, not game-level. It would also unlock new exciting possibilities for developers like 60fps gameplay while docked and 45fps while portable (but free of tears/stutters).
The inclusion of HDMI 2.1 output would also be greatly appreciated (although I don't expect it) and VRR on future TVs would be really sweet too.
The inclusion of HDMI 2.1 output would also be greatly appreciated (although I don't expect it) and VRR on future TVs would be really sweet too.
Aren't those kinds of screens pretty expensive though?
Nice, gsync without the hardware would be really cheap and could be what wsj is talking about. I didn't know that Nvidia removed the hardware requirement, gsync would be a massive improvement, input response would massively improve too. Cool if they went with it.
G-sync desktop screens did (and still do) have dedicated and pricey FPGA boards inside them that control the refresh rate. G-sync branded laptops actually operate in more or less the same way that AMD FreeSync monitors do, and do not use the FPGA board. G-Sync and FreeSync are both ultimately just brands that the companies use.
To clarify, Nvidia has not dropped the requirements for any external monitors - G-sync laptops can use variable refresh without an official G-sync module on their own internal screens, but cannot use this technology to drive FreeSync compatible displays, they can still only use G-sync monitors.
I would be completely fine and on board with this. I would actually love it.
You are really hung-up on this foxconn leak of 921mhz being something more then them just stress testing the X1 chips.
Again, you didn't understand a thing and it's starting to get annoying. At no point did I say keeping the same switch, I'm specifically talking about the revision. You really have reading problems.
With Nvidia Xavier, they can surpass xbone S and trade blows with PS4.
Nintendo always says they're not competing directly with Sony and MS, but of course they are. They have to compete for the share of the market. They're just not competing in raw power. If the console you play most has all the 1st party exclusives you need and the major third parties, then you will be less likely to buy other consoles. Nintendo has the first party exclusives, but they need some power to get the third parties and run decently.
For a hybrid, we can't expect anything big llike ps4 pro level anytime soon. 1TF in nvidia flops and mixed precision mode should go toe to toe with xbone at least.
The X1 can't run those clocks for 8 minutes, much less 8 days. Matt did hint that the pro has been around for a while too, so who's to say that isn't what they wanted to test.
It would be a waste like the NEW 3DS's specs, which tripled in CPU and RAM, but lol at GPU. Amount of RAM alone won't do much for Nintendo, though increased bandwidth would help with resolution and loading textures and alpha paticles, as it is Nintendo's biggest hardware bottleneck outside of expensive cartridges
Yes, I'd like 2x as more power with the same battery life as current switch. You get plenty of time playing 3 hours before a charge, and it helps with overall performance for all games, and it helps us get more third party games. It's a no brainer to me.
I don't know about that.. Consoles, aren't like smart phones. People use smart phones for all kinds of stuff, most of which don't even use its full power. But having a revision ever two years for consoles could split the fanbase up. For all we now, we could get a switch revision in Q1 2020 anyway.
if the switch pro had a CPU as good or better than ps4 and close to 1TFLOP in paper specs for GPU.. it should run close to 60fps.. no?
Agreed.. A switch revision at 2x the performance in CPU and GPU should be able to run that without a problem at 1080p..
This is exactly what I described back in April and should have bet money on it. :D
That being said, I'm quite puzzled by the timing, as I was really expecting them to release their switch pro in 2020.
First, because that's when the next generation is likely to release; and second, because I expected them to have a full lineup of string software to push their new toy: Zelda and Mario 2, Splatoon 3, Mario kart 9... You name it. A sort of 2017 bis. All compatible with the OG switch of course (as every software until 2022-23). But all with enhancements for the new hardware.
2019 seems too early in my view, and while Metroid definitely gonna be a looker, it's not the kind of software that moves a lot of consoles. We'll see what they have in mind, but I can't shake the feeling that 2019 is too early.
I don't think Nintendo is ready for that. They have a Subscription service that is years late in comparison of the competition. So I don't expect Cloud streaming on a big scale anytime soon ( meaning next gen ).
However I could see Cloud as a option for Nintendo to avoid the strong hardware arm race. I'm sure they are thinking of options, but they are very cautious when it comes to those things. So don't expect them anytime soon.
In my opinion, the og switch will be fully supported until at least 2022 or even 23. That's a 5 or 6 years life cycle, not bad. Then, when a switch 3 releases, the switch 2 would still be forward compatible for a couple of years and so on.
In this system, in buying a switch, you would be sure to receive all the support for the length of a regular console generation; for those who always want to be at the forefront of technology, the possibility to buy a new hardware will be here. If Nintendo and Nvidia do have a 20 years-ish deal, this could work.
Yea. One of those issues can be fixed with an accessory. Or they could just give people the option.
Or you could just give people half of both. The Tegra X2 is more powerful and more efficient. It could likely give a nice boost to handheld resolution while also reducing power draw and increasing battery life, depending on the panel type and size they put into it.
And the extra cost for Nintendo would be marginal compared to the current X1 which is already old story for Nvidia. X2 makes the most sense. It always has.
Late 2019 would be 2,5 years after the Switch release, I was also expecting 2020 but tbh it's not that early, specially if the update isnt as big as some people expect. 2021 release might be a big jump from the original Switch tho.
Well, pretty much every big publisher has either started a cloud streaming service or about to. We already have Capcom/Ubisoft streaming games to the Switch. EA is next.
With proper cooling, yes it could. If they tested that for days it's because they were stability tests, you do those in extreme conditions. And even if there was a Switch Pro prototype chip, things change. Look at Xavier, it was going to be a 16nm, 7bn transistor chip, and now that it has come out its 12nm and 9bn transistor. And there is a clear pattern for Tegra, they are having Tegra chips come out like clockwork with the new GPU architectures, early this year they had 12nm Volta in mass production and selling, what do they have for next year?
If the PS5 is late 2020, they can get a whole year of attention to themselves releasing early. And if they feel the tech and the games are ready, why not?
This was my update idea from the start (3 years, not 2), but i hope that a only tablet sku will be available to people to encourage the update
Natedrake, Your usually right about a lot of things, but do you really think that Nintendo will upset, (which believe me they will) there existing and potential customers? in bringing out a new switch which is all but cosmetic or will this be just a screen revision?
Era people are not just who have made this console such a blinding success but ordinary casuals, and possibly WII u owners/Wii owners who wanted to get 1st party.
Do you think that Nintendo will stick with hybrid concept?? I honestly don't think there will be any major change till 2020/21 when I believe ps5/next xbox will land.
Era people are not just who have made this console such a blinding success but ordinary casuals, and possibly WII u owners/Wii owners who wanted to get 1st party.
Do you think that Nintendo will stick with hybrid concept?? I honestly don't think there will be any major change till 2020/21 when I believe ps5/next xbox will land.
The Foxconn leak is talking about a Switch in it's current form factor, the Shield TV can't maintain those clocks for 8 minutes, much less 8 days, and it doesn't have a battery drawing ~6 watts and the Screen drawing another couple watts, I don't see how the Switch form factor could run a device drawing over 20 watts and cool it without throttling while running this fish demo with hundreds to thousands of fish on screen. The A57 clocked at 1785MHZ would draw 6.5 watts, the Tegra GPU at 921mhz would draw over 3 watts, in contrast, the Switch bends and cracks, the battery expands and the device gets over 37c while the SoC draws about 4.2 watts, this would be around 10 watts for the chip.
Yeah this is what I believe too, but the modification they make is important. X2 would be cheaper than creating a new Tegra chip (which this is) so leaves me with the assumption that X2 can't do whatever it is that they wanted Mariko to do.
Are you saying there's a Gsync that works with ANY TV?
The only way I see anything major changing is if Nintendo need more power/better screen because they want to venture into VR and if so, then I am all in.
The recent release of Astrobot shows how Nintendo games could look on VR systems and play. You really have to see this game to get an idea how incredible changing the characters to Gumbas and Bullet bills, etc.
The recent release of Astrobot shows how Nintendo games could look on VR systems and play. You really have to see this game to get an idea how incredible changing the characters to Gumbas and Bullet bills, etc.
You keep ignoring PS4Pro and Xbox 1 X.
And New 3DS (which actually had exclusive games).
None of these had negative effect on the greater platform.
And you've got one thing completely wrong. It's actually the forum enthusiasts who get up in arms over the idea of someone else having a stronger Switch that can run Zelda at 1080p. The mass market consumer actually doesn't give a fuck and will benefit from the base Switch or it's revision dropping it's price while the "Pro" takes the premium niche.
The XBnext and PS5 were suppose to launch in 2019, They are likely waiting until 2020, but we are not sure what is going on. Nintendo wouldn't need to break compatibility and most people wouldn't even notice that it is more powerful than the current Switch, casuals don't actually care about 720p and 1080p unless that is advertised, all they would know is the new Switch looks a bit nicer and maybe has HDR or is "more powerful" in a vague way... We've all been buying phones now for a decade in this manner, so I think the general public will just see it as normal, especially after PS4 Pro and XB1X normalized it.
He is saying there is a Gsync that works without the Gsync chip, like a Freesync monitor. It wouldn't surprise me if it's basically freesync, since you can actually get a Geforce GPU to run adaptive sync on a Freesync monitor if you have a slave AMD GPU (including the APU) in your PC.
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