FH4 in-game leaderboards show ~1.63M players in 9 days, up 114% compared to FH3

OldeManWinter · Oct 6, 2018

Won'tSomebodyPleaseThinkOfTheSales.gif

On topic. This is well deserved. FH4 is a masterpiece racing game. I hope PG's success translates to other games/genres.

christocolus · Oct 7, 2018

gcwy said:
Lighten up. If you're concerned about sales, maybe you should look at the thread about it doing really good just with one edition of the game.

Lol.It's funny how people who never have any interest in Xbox or its games suddenly pop up when some sort of positive performance metric/info about its hardware or games is released. FH4 is obviously doing great but I guess he needs to disprove the fact or downplay it a bit.

Deleted member 21709 · Oct 7, 2018

The game still won't connect me to live sessions. It's fucked up.

The Living Tribunal · Oct 7, 2018

Ingueferroque said:
The game still won't connect me to live sessions. It's fucked up.

Had the same issue yesterday. Are you playing on PC or Xbone?

Deleted member 2254 · Oct 7, 2018

Horizon became such a powerhouse, the most engaging racing game around. Insane graphics, fantastic gameplay, lovely support... success is beyond well deserved.

Deleted member 21709 · Oct 7, 2018

The Living Tribunal said:
Had the same issue yesterday. Are you playing on PC or Xbone?

Xbone, considering to install it on PC to see if that works.. but I see others post about the same issue there.

Pryme · Oct 7, 2018

Sheepinator said:
You're both getting very defensive. It was a fair question. The topic title is praising number of users. How many more units has it sold?

I love how you understand that the topic is about number of users, then you go into a meaningless discussion about retail sales when you've known for months that MS places significant value on MAUs and Gamepass subscription.

Sheepinator · Oct 7, 2018

christocolus said:
Lol.It's funny how people who never have any interest in Xbox or its games suddenly pop up when some sort of positive performance metric/info about its hardware or games is released. FH4 is obviously doing great but I guess he needs to disprove the fact or downplay it a bit.

I've been playing Forza since the first game. I was playing FH3 as recently as this week. I have every Achievement in FH3 amd FM7. I have both dlc's for FH3. And yet if I ask a question about the validity of comparing user stats for a game which was given away free with Game Pass, versus a game which wasn't, the fanboys come out in force. Relax people, nobody is coming after your precious game.

Linus815 · Oct 7, 2018

Sheepinator said:
I've been playing Forza since the first game. I was playing FH3 as recently as this week. I have every Achievement in FH3 amd FM7. I have both dlc's for FH3. And yet if I ask a question about the validity of comparing user stats for a game which was given away free with Game Pass, versus a game which wasn't, the fanboys come out in force. Relax people, nobody is coming after your precious game.

The ultimate edition isn't part of the gamepass and you can see it doing better than FH3's ultimate edition......

R3create · Oct 7, 2018

I kind of feel bad for not buying this and playing it on gamepass instead

christocolus · Oct 7, 2018

Sheepinator said:
I've been playing Forza since the first game. I was playing FH3 as recently as this week. I have every Achievement in FH3 amd FM7. I have both dlc's for FH3. And yet if I ask a question about the validity of comparing user stats for a game which was away free with Game Pass, versus a game which wasn't, the fanboys come out in force. Relax people, nobody is coming after your precious game.

Lol. You are the one trying so hard to downplay the success of the game using terms like "inflate" and when you are called out you use the term "fanboys". FYI you either have to sub to game pass or purchase the game to play it..It doesn't matter where or how the game is purchased i.e game pass , Xbox store or retail.. MS is more than happy with any of these options. it's all in line with their plans moving forward... ..No need derailing the thread any further.

Spacecowboy · Oct 7, 2018

Well deserved, best racer I've played this generation

The Living Tribunal · Oct 7, 2018

Ingueferroque said:
Xbone, considering to install it on PC to see if that works.. but I see others post about the same issue there.

I tried powercycling the console like four times and it didn't work. Then I deleted my account, downloaded it again and i finally got into a session. You might want to give it a try and see if it works for you.

Funkbrotherdee · Oct 7, 2018

Got it on gamepass. Thank god i didn't buy it. Take some of that money and make a competent pc port.

Cthulhu_Steev · Oct 7, 2018

Rodelero said:
It's up 114%, not 214%...

It's a great result but hardly surprising. Two years later in the generation, a better considered game and gamepass. I'm gonna be able to play the game for two months for about £2, whereas I actually bought Forza Horizon 3. I doubt I'll be playing it beyond that point, but we'll see. I've always liked Forza Horizon but I've never loved it the way a lot of people seem to and I don't think 4 is going to change that. It feels decent to drive, though I was expecting more difference between the seasons, but the game as a whole just feels kinda bloated like a lot of open world games do these days. I'm kinda bored of grinding through what feels like the longest tutorial of all time already, half way through winter. I'm really hoping that I find something once I get beyond this cycle that keeps me going in the more online centric stuff.

This is pretty much where I'm at. Bought FH3 and DLC (never played any of the DLC parts - yet) and got bored. I'm playing FH4 on Game Pass, spent all day on it yesterday and it's beautiful but more of the same overly-bloated - and honestly, a bit too much of an Ubi-mess for me. I'm a single player at heart, I need more guidance in games these days to make the most of my limited play time.

nekkid · Oct 7, 2018

"There must be some explanation".

Yeah. It's good.

Blablurn · Oct 7, 2018

Good game!

Rodelero · Oct 7, 2018

Pryme said:
I love how you understand that the topic is about number of users, then you go into a meaningless discussion about retail sales when you've known for months that MS places significant value on MAUs and Gamepass subscription.

In reality, Microsoft being focused on engagement metrics rather than sales is mostly spin. All games companies are more interested in engagement metrics these days and Microsoft are no different, but in the end they talk about the stats which show their games in the best light and where they've released games that are doing relatively well on sales/player count and perhaps less so on engagement metrics they talk about sales and player count. In the case of this thread, this statistic isn't even coming from Microsoft - they've given us a player count stat because it's all they can give us. It won't be long until Microsoft do officially talk numbers and I'd be pretty surprised if we don't hear them talk actual sales numbers because they are undoubtedly strong. In the end though, if Microsoft are talking about total player counts they are giving us a number that gives us the least clear picture of how successful the game is. It is a number that can be strong even if retail sales and engagement figures aren't.

In this thread, the notion that talking about retail sales is 'meaningless' is absurd. This is a direct comparison between a game which was on Game Pass and one which was not. The headline figure of over 100% growth would be incredible if Forza Horizon 4 wasn't available via Game Pass whereas, with Game Pass in mind, it's an impressive but predictable gain.

In the end, while Game Pass is a revenue stream for Microsoft and no doubt one they believe in massively for the future, there is a significant difference between the customer who buys Forza Horizon 4 outright and the one that pays for Game Pass to play it and the one that already has Game Pass and downloads it anyway. Admittedly, Microsoft no doubt pay a great number of people to try and figure out the value of a given game to Game Pass and for us to even guess would be fruitless. All the same, it is obviously the case that a game with 5 million sales is far more impressive than one with three million sales and two million Game Pass downloads.

SuikerBrood · Oct 7, 2018

Funkbrotherdee said:
Got it on gamepass. Thank god i didn't buy it. Take some of that money and make a competent pc port.

This is one of the most impressive pc games I've played this year? So many settings, so gorgeous. I think they did a great job to be honest.

Rodelero said:
In reality, Microsoft being focused on engagement metrics rather than sales is mostly spin. All games companies are more interested in engagement metrics these days and Microsoft are no different, but in the end they talk about the stats which show their games in the best light and where they've released games that are doing relatively well on sales/player count and perhaps less so on engagement metrics they talk about sales and player count. In the case of this thread, this statistic isn't even coming from Microsoft - they've given us a player count stat because it's all they can give us. It won't be long until Microsoft do officially talk numbers and I'd be pretty surprised if we don't hear them talk actual sales numbers because they are undoubtedly strong. In the end though, if Microsoft are talking about total player counts they are giving us a number that gives us the least clear picture of how successful the game is. It is a number that can be strong even if retail sales and engagement figures aren't.

In this thread, the notion that talking about retail sales is 'meaningless' is absurd. This is a direct comparison between a game which was on Game Pass and one which was not. The headline figure of over 100% growth would be incredible if Forza Horizon 4 wasn't available via Game Pass whereas, with Game Pass in mind, it's an impressive but predictable gain.

In the end, while Game Pass is a revenue stream for Microsoft and no doubt one they believe in massively for the future, there is a significant difference between the customer who buys Forza Horizon 4 outright and the one that pays for Game Pass to play it and the one that already has Game Pass and downloads it anyway. Admittedly, Microsoft no doubt pay a great number of people to try and figure out the value of a given game to Game Pass and for us to even guess would be fruitless. All the same, it is obviously the case that a game with 5 million sales is far more impressive than one with three million sales and two million Game Pass downloads.

I agree. But people still need to download a 60GB game. They won't do it for every game (you can see the difference between SoT and SoD2) so having a high engagement number is still impressive. Why is there a need to downplay it? It's not as if we're talking about sales numbers.

If we talk sales numbers it's even more impressive to be honest. Those ultimate editions seem to be flying off the shelves.

Ohhhht · Oct 7, 2018

Phonomezer said:
Game Pass won

Innovation won

Xbox won

Most importantly, gamers won.

Rodelero · Oct 7, 2018

SuikerBrood said:
I agree. But people still need to download a 60GB game. They won't do it for every game (you can see the difference between SoT and SoD2) so having a high engagement number is still impressive. Why is there a need to downplay it? It's not as if we're talking about sales numbers.

This thread isn't a parade (even if some are using it that way...) and talking about the context of the comparison is not rain.

If we talk sales numbers it's even more impressive to be honest. Those ultimate editions seem to be flying off the shelves.

I don't think we really know how impressive the sales are or aren't yet, but I'd guess at 25-50% growth which is fantastic for sequel. I only hope that the Ultimate Editions aren't selling because of the early access nonsense which is an absolutely egregious way to monetise games.

Trup1aya · Oct 7, 2018

Absolute said:
Would've expected a lot more with gamepass but still growth is positive. I've certainly been having a blast playing it.

How many people do we think subscribe to gamepass...

I think people have an unrealistic impression of the ratio of Gamepass subs to normal customers.

The vast majority of the player base will be people buying the game the old fashioned way...and it appears a lot more people are buying this than the previous entry. Gamepass may be more effective at convincing people to buy than it is at padding the playerbase w/ subscribers.

Deleted member 20297 · Oct 7, 2018

Hah, wouldn't be a thread about a Microsoft game coming to gamepass without a sales derail.
Face it, no matter how often we want it, Microsoft will not share sales numbers in the foreseeable future. Why is that so hard to understand or to accept? It doesn't lead to anything.

MysticGon · Oct 7, 2018

Well done Microsoft and Playground Games. I think letting other teams to fresh takes on existing franchises is a good strategy. It has clearly paid off.

Putty · Oct 7, 2018

The more people who play it the better! Its clearly fantastic! Im a PS user but i so wish i had an X to play this on! They gotta Japan next, maybe New Zeland...

Iichter · Oct 7, 2018

Reaching 2M pretty soon. :")

SuikerBrood · Oct 7, 2018

Putty said:
The more people who play it the better! Its clearly fantastic! Im a PS user but i so wish i had an X to play this on! They gotta Japan next, maybe New Zeland...

I hope they'll do a south american country (or a combination) next to be honest.

Klobrille · Oct 7, 2018

The chart is definitely missing players by the way.

Their Forza Horizon 3 chart shows just under 8 Million players, when we know by an official source the game already has over 10 Million players.

https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-horizon-3-crosses-10-million-players-xbox-one-and-pc

I guess we will have an official press release next week.

Trup1aya · Oct 7, 2018

Iichter said:
Reaching 2M pretty soon. :")

It already had 2million when this was posted- 20% of players hadn't reached this part of the game.

Funkbrotherdee · Oct 7, 2018

SuikerBrood said:
This is one of the most impressive pc games I've played this year? So many settings, so gorgeous. I think they did a great job to be honest.

It is impressive how the sound doesn't work. An issue that was in the fucking demo lol.

Pryme · Oct 7, 2018

Rodelero said:
In reality, Microsoft being focused on engagement metrics rather than sales is mostly spin. All games companies are more interested in engagement metrics these days and Microsoft are no different, but in the end they talk about the stats which show their games in the best light and where they've released games that are doing relatively well on sales/player count and perhaps less so on engagement metrics they talk about sales and player count. In the case of this thread, this statistic isn't even coming from Microsoft - they've given us a player count stat because it's all they can give us. It won't be long until Microsoft do officially talk numbers and I'd be pretty surprised if we don't hear them talk actual sales numbers because they are undoubtedly strong. In the end though, if Microsoft are talking about total player counts they are giving us a number that gives us the least clear picture of how successful the game is. It is a number that can be strong even if retail sales and engagement figures aren't.

In this thread, the notion that talking about retail sales is 'meaningless' is absurd. This is a direct comparison between a game which was on Game Pass and one which was not. The headline figure of over 100% growth would be incredible if Forza Horizon 4 wasn't available via Game Pass whereas, with Game Pass in mind, it's an impressive but predictable gain.

In the end, while Game Pass is a revenue stream for Microsoft and no doubt one they believe in massively for the future, there is a significant difference between the customer who buys Forza Horizon 4 outright and the one that pays for Game Pass to play it and the one that already has Game Pass and downloads it anyway. Admittedly, Microsoft no doubt pay a great number of people to try and figure out the value of a given game to Game Pass and for us to even guess would be fruitless. All the same, it is obviously the case that a game with 5 million sales is far more impressive than one with three million sales and two million Game Pass downloads.

A game with 5 million sales is great. A game with three million sales and the addition of 2 million people to a service where, if 50% are retained, is probably of better value.

Microsoft used to sell Office for $200 and above. You think they regret their office 365 scheme where users can pay $10 monthly?

RdN · Oct 7, 2018

Horizon 4 is hands down the best racing game released this generation.

A true master piece.

B.C. · Oct 7, 2018

Jiraiya said:
"We don't know what percentage of gamepass owners are interested..."

I'll admit i haven't seen this angle...it's terrible....but at least it's a first.

Lol

Rodelero · Oct 7, 2018

Pryme said:
A game with 5 million sales is great. A game with three million sales and the addition of 2 million people to a service where, if 50% are retained, is probably of better value.

... You've just completely changed what I've said though. There is a massive difference between two million Game Pass subscribers downloading something, and two million people subscribing to Game Pass to download something and then one million of them continuining to subscribe beyond their time with the game. Yes, if Forza Horizon 4 is the reason that someone subscribes in the first place and they become a permanent member, then it is probably more valuable than a single game purchase (though that person is likely to purchase fewer games after they subscribe), but that will be the case for a minority of the Game Pass subscribers downloading Forza Horizon 4.

christocolus · Oct 7, 2018

RdN said:
Horizon 4 is hands down the best racing game released this generation.

A true master piece.

.

christocolus · Oct 7, 2018

Klobrille said:
The chart is definitely missing players by the way.

Their Forza Horizon 3 chart shows just under 8 Million players, when we know by an official source the game already has over 10 Million players.

https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-horizon-3-crosses-10-million-players-xbox-one-and-pc

I guess we will have an official press release next week.

This will obviously become the best selling FH game.

Klobrille · Oct 7, 2018

Rodelero said:
Yes, if Forza Horizon 4 is the reason that someone subscribes in the first place and they become a permanent member, then it is probably more valuable than a single game purchase (though that person is likely to purchase fewer games after they subscribe), but that will be the case for a minority of the Game Pass subscribers downloading Forza Horizon 4.

This is just an assumption without any ground you're doing.

Your calculation also completely dismisses the players that wouldn't even have touched FH4 without Game Pass.

On top of everything the underlined sentence is wrong, too.

After joining Xbox Game Pass, Game Pass members are playing more games than ever before — not only games in the Game Pass catalog, but also other Xbox games outside the catalog. As a result, we're seeing more active players for games across the board, which is having a notable positive impact for our publishers and developers, including increased sales for games in Xbox Game Pass.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/06/01/xbox-game-pass-one-year-anniversary/

This got re-stated by Phil Spencer during his Giantbomb E3 interview.

Barneystuta · Oct 7, 2018

R3create said:
I kind of feel bad for not buying this and playing it on gamepass instead

I felt the same... And then I dropped £36 on the Ultimate edition add-on.

Terbinator · Oct 7, 2018

christocolus said:
This will obviously become the best selling FH game.

Can't see it topping FM4 sales.

Edit: Derp, I can't read.

The Living Tribunal · Oct 7, 2018

Terbinator said:
Can't see it topping FM4 sales.

I think you misread his post.

Panic Freak · Oct 7, 2018

Regis said:
I'm thinking the same thing, it seems that they will last until Gears 5 as well

And Halo Infinite too.

Krysuk · Oct 7, 2018

Steelyuhas said:
They aren't playing for free, they are paying for Game Pass.

Not on a trial they aren't - I'm using my free trial for it

Steverulez · Oct 7, 2018

Krysuk said:
Not on a trial they aren't - I'm using my free trial for it

This is the lovely new meme "game pass trials!", which was used for SOT, SOD2 and now FH4. Maybe the numbers are just good all round? We know game pass increases sales, and people pay for game pass as well as use the trial and they might even get converted to paying subs or full copies

Lukas Taves · Oct 7, 2018

Absolute said:
Would've expected a lot more with gamepass but still growth is positive. I've certainly been having a blast playing it.

It does feel a bit on the the low side, but the game launched in the middle of the week. It will probably get a big boost in the weekend.

HououinKyouma00 · Oct 7, 2018

2Bee said:
Best racing game I've ever played, it makes sense.

This.

Horizon 4 and Gran Turismo 3 are the best racing games of all time. Both are probably on the same level for me while also being very different games.

Trup1aya · Oct 7, 2018

I feel like people are overestimating how much GP "inflates" player numbers.

A good portion of the people playing FH4 via GP are players who played FH3 the old fashioned way. So these players won't account for any of the growth we see.

We don't know how many subscribers GP has, but it's likely a small fraction of XBL Gold subscribers. So don't expect the sort of boost you'd get from, say, a GWG release.

Most of the player growth we see if from good, old fashioned, sales- because the game and franchise is awesome. GP is icing on the cake.

Theorry · Oct 7, 2018

Posted this in the other thread.

Theorry said:
Pretty intresting. The Ultimate Add on bundle is in the Top 10 in the UK on the store.
Guess alot of Gamepass users getting that upgrade.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/top-paid/games/xbox

nekkid · Oct 7, 2018

Rodelero said:
In reality, Microsoft being focused on engagement metrics rather than sales is mostly spin. All games companies are more interested in engagement metrics these days and Microsoft are no different, but in the end they talk about the stats which show their games in the best light and where they've released games that are doing relatively well on sales/player count and perhaps less so on engagement metrics they talk about sales and player count. In the case of this thread, this statistic isn't even coming from Microsoft - they've given us a player count stat because it's all they can give us. It won't be long until Microsoft do officially talk numbers and I'd be pretty surprised if we don't hear them talk actual sales numbers because they are undoubtedly strong. In the end though, if Microsoft are talking about total player counts they are giving us a number that gives us the least clear picture of how successful the game is. It is a number that can be strong even if retail sales and engagement figures aren't.

In this thread, the notion that talking about retail sales is 'meaningless' is absurd. This is a direct comparison between a game which was on Game Pass and one which was not. The headline figure of over 100% growth would be incredible if Forza Horizon 4 wasn't available via Game Pass whereas, with Game Pass in mind, it's an impressive but predictable gain.

In the end, while Game Pass is a revenue stream for Microsoft and no doubt one they believe in massively for the future, there is a significant difference between the customer who buys Forza Horizon 4 outright and the one that pays for Game Pass to play it and the one that already has Game Pass and downloads it anyway. Admittedly, Microsoft no doubt pay a great number of people to try and figure out the value of a given game to Game Pass and for us to even guess would be fruitless. All the same, it is obviously the case that a game with 5 million sales is far more impressive than one with three million sales and two million Game Pass downloads.

Their focus on active users rather than unit sales is not entirely, but very significantly the result of their position this generation. But this isn't spin, it's a shift in their attitude. Don't for one minute believe MAU is not now the more important metric for them internally.

matimeo · Oct 7, 2018

nekkid said:
Their focus on active users rather than unit sales is not entirely, but very significantly the result of their position this generation. But this isn't spin, it's a shift in their attitude. Don't for one minute believe MAU is not now the more important metric for them internally.

Correct. Gaming follows the rest of the company. All people have to do is google Satya Microsoft MAU. This is one of many Satya mandates the entire company is now following.

JaggedSac · Oct 7, 2018

Sheepinator said:
I've been playing Forza since the first game. I was playing FH3 as recently as this week. I have every Achievement in FH3 amd FM7. I have both dlc's for FH3. And yet if I ask a question about the validity of comparing user stats for a game which was given away free with Game Pass, versus a game which wasn't, the fanboys come out in force. Relax people, nobody is coming after your precious game.

GamePass is not free.

FH4 in-game leaderboards show ~1.63M players in 9 days, up 114% compared to FH3

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