That's the long and short of it for me. Pacing isn't an issue as long as the game/story holds my interest.
I do have less patience than I used to for tedious story beats or verbose yet bland characterization. That works with any medium, mind you.
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Have you also become impatient?
- Thread starter Thickstone
- Start date
I do have less patience than I used to for tedious story beats or verbose yet bland characterization. That works with any medium, mind you.
Writing in video games is atrocious for the most part. I absolutely can relate, but if the story is good then I don't mind some exposition. Give me Undertale rather that Metal Gear, and I'll be a happy camper.
This is actually a good example of an instance where I didn't mind that much, because I was genuinely interested in the story. It also wasn't that intrusive. If you just wanted to play you could simply opt out of listening.
This is actually a good example of an instance where I didn't mind that much, because I was genuinely interested in the story. It also wasn't that intrusive. If you just wanted to play you could simply opt out of listening.
Because it's simple. If you feel like a game is wasting your time then the chances are that you simply don't like that game and you should just play something you do like. It's not about patience or impatience. If you go to the cinema and you find yourself not liking a movie then the chances are you'll be looking at your watch asking yourself "how much longer?" and "when does it end?". That doesn't mean you are impatient, it just means you are not enjoying your time spent.
The real question you should ask yourself is "why am I still playing this game I clearly don't enjoy?"
And yes, cutscenes and/or reading are very much part of the game. They are part of the experience as a whole. Don't like cutscenes? Don't play games with cutscenes. Don't like reading? Don't play games that require reading. Those games simply aren't for you, and there is nothing wrong with you if you don't like them.
What if you can enjoy games that are filled with text or cutscenes, but feel borderline insulted by the quality of writing in the vast majority of games? I don't think it's that controversial a statement to say that writing in video games are lacking compared to the writing in books, movies or comics. And that is not because of the limitations of the medium, but because of the limitations of the authors.
You want story in your game? Great, I'm interested, but don't waste my time with fanfic levels of generic power fantasy. Give me something that can earn my investement.
right dog: me wanting to play story heavy games
left dog: me hung over having skipped playing story heavy games and instead getting tanked
Did you really have to shit all over OP's thread? You have half the thread's posts and all are making fun of the OP, without contributing or answering the thread, grow up.
On topic, I do agree with you OP, some games just don't value your time. Many games just lack good pacing and have cutscene after cutscene without adding anything and without giving the player the opportunity to play the game. Developers should try to strike a balance between gameplay and story.
Your last paragraph sums it up and answers your own question. If you feel like it's wasting your time, don't play it.
Why would you feel insulted by the quality of the writing in a game? It is what it is. You either like it or you don't like it. There is no need to feel insulted by it...
The only way the medium is going to get better at storytelling and building convincing worlds is through continuing to attempt to do so and through practising. Ceasing to do so because a bunch of gamers feel insulted or simply say "get to the gameplay" is not the answer.
The medium is making strides towards being taken seriously, especially for being a viable artform to tell good/great stories. We have not arrived at this point by developers avoiding doing so all-together out of fear of not being able to do so convincingly enough.
For what it's worth there are a lot of games out there that don't lean on storytelling at all and are more "traditional" in terms of the feedback loop it provides to it's players. You will mostly need to step outside of the AAA space to find them though.
You summed it up well. If I feel a game is wasting my time I won't play it. I feel insulted when served up subpar storytelling that the makers of the game felt was what I as a consumer would appreciate. I think that tells me a lot about what they think of me as a consumer of their product. There are games that nail it, extensively in the indie market, as you pointed out, but also some bigger budget titles. That is proof in itself that We should not have to endure the average level of storytelling. I also don't think it's about the evolution of the medium anymore. The medium has evolved, as proven by the games that pull off good storytelling. It's just that most AAA games pander to, and will continue to pander to, as wide a market as possible. And that's how you get bad storytelling without any value to anyone.
What games have you been playing recently that have actively offended you? It's interesting you take it so personally when you don't enjoy something.
OP
OP
The point is that I felt puzzled about the sudden loss of patience and related it to the increase of stories I felt indifferent towards. I've liked plenty of stories in the pst such as silent hill 2, mgs2 etc., so this was not the point. But of course you already read that.
I think people are focusing to much on one single word in my reasoning, which is unfortunate, I guess. Also ironic considering the topic, as it makes me suspect that no one is actually reading the rest of my posts.
Of course I don't feel insulted in the literal sense of the word. I can't be the only person alive to have seen that expression used to critizise poor storytelling in other mediums? If I'm on shaky ground concerning this particular wording you'll have to excuse me, english is not my first language.
What I'm referring to is the feeling that storytellers don't respect my intelligence as a consumer, shoving poorly written story down my throat while apparently under the impression that I'm unable to identify that their work is lackluster. That is proof that you don't think highly of your fans, in my opinion.
I'm reading the words that you put down but apparently that's not the message you want to convey. Ok, well you're just dodging the question, it's not difficult to list some games that have insulted your intelligence through poor storytelling and list some games you feel have good storytelling.
For me, what it comes down to is games are really always about the gameplay at the end of the day, the story is window dressing to enhance a game, but not what I play the majority of games for. Sure I'll roll my eyes at trite and predictable plot lines, but I'm not offended by it as I'm personally there for the gameplay.
Now this is something that does make me impatient. When I'm just staring at a loading screen, it really ruins my enjoyment.
If we must resort to calling out names, here are some high profile ones. Every overly wordy 3D Zelda game after Majoras Mask up until BOTW. Every bloated Metal Gear game after the first Metal Gear Solid (didn't play the handheld ones). Any disjointedly messy Final Fantasy games after XII (didn't try XIV). Skyrim, with it's generic fantasy getting in the way of the awsome exploring, so in love with its trite setting that it fills itself up with subpar fantasy fiction in every single bokshelf you encounter. The Assassins Creed games, with its lazy science fiction tropes ruining what could have been a cool open world series in different historical settings.
Some games where I really liked the writing would be Undertale, Nier: Automata, Night in the Woods and Life is Strange. I'm also quite fond of the enviromental storytelling in the soulsborne games.
And if you agree that there are lots of eyerolling moments of trite storytelling in games, don't you agree that that tells you just something about what the creators of said games think of you as a consumer?
I'm just gonna say that when I started to read your posts, I skipped all the other post just to find yours. I think dogs and cats CAN live together.
I'll cheat engine some the bullshit out of games. As a child I could afford the grind, but as an adult I respect my time more.
I don't get impatient because of cutscenes or something. I do hate how sometimes you can't skip a boss' intro talk before having to fight him. If it's a hard boss and you die a bunch it gets tedious to hear the same story over and over again. Spider-Man had this when fighting Fisk iirc.
I also don't read books, notes and other documents in games for the most part. It just doesn't interest me most of the time.
I also don't read books, notes and other documents in games for the most part. It just doesn't interest me most of the time.
I'm in general pretty patient, but I don't like games that waste my time with filler, overbearing tutorials and bad pacing. This doesn't mean I don't like slow paced games, I've really enjoyed stuff like The Last Guardian and games that have a slow pace but I don't feel waste my time are great.
Conker isn't the example I'd use to make your point here, OP.
But yes, what you say resonates with me. I've been feeling like this since FFX, actually.
Right now I'm playing my NES Mini and while the games aren't always stellar, them being fat-free helps me a ton in tolerating the faults in the gameplay.
The worst is when the story is poorly written. The latest Tomb Raider game is borderline offensive at times with its amateurish writing and empty NPCs.
But yes, what you say resonates with me. I've been feeling like this since FFX, actually.
Right now I'm playing my NES Mini and while the games aren't always stellar, them being fat-free helps me a ton in tolerating the faults in the gameplay.
The worst is when the story is poorly written. The latest Tomb Raider game is borderline offensive at times with its amateurish writing and empty NPCs.
I skip story related content until I feel like it actually matters. Just give me the game, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 devs, and I'll struggle through your mechanic tutorials, and get back to the story once the game picks up.
I grow more impatient with my teamsters too. But I don't really have a problem with a game being slow or not. I feel like I don't want to learn something new, period. Impatience has little to do with it.
I've felt the way you do OP when games fail to be engaging. I am buying more and more into sort of "early impressions will sell the rest of the game" vibe in most cases. It doesn't need to be a full-picture impression, but sometimes games will completely lack any sort of hook starting out.
For instance, I do think Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey are great games overall but their story content in the early hours is pretty dry, but the hook that keeps me playing through the dry hours is the scope and scale of things that's presented so early (and it only expands from there). Similarly, Dragon Quest XI doesn't really hit a stride story-wise until about 3 hours in for me -- but I was carried through the opening hours by what I feel is a very charming art style and fun breezy tone, but I got fully committed once I realized that tone can be shaken up and alter dramatically.
I've had entire lengths of time in the past where my expectations and "needs" from games was radically different and didn't even favor narrative or tone or anything like that. I just wanted sort of a raw gameplay experience that was immediately satisfying, and at that time I tended to find it far more in multiplayer-focused games. But even then, it was always a nice thing to also get context and presentation that felt elevated and left a lasting impression. Ever since the 2013 debut of Last of Us and Grand Theft Auto V, though, I sort of started to grow an appreciation for cinematic presentation and context and tone all over again. 5 years later, it's tough to pin down exact preference things I enjoy about it, but it's something I've become far more cognizant of when I play games, and something I actively look for -- any sort of hook that motivate me to continue playing. Sometimes I want tons of charm and charisma, sometimes I want an emotional connection, etc... And I'm finding right now since I've grown an appreciation for presentation and context over the past 5 years, it's usually not too hard to find SOME hook in a lot of popular games nowadays.
In any case, it's fine for you to find that you don't really pay attention to that sort of thing -- I've been there. I don't know if I'd call it "impatience." It's just a lack of a hook.
For instance, I do think Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey are great games overall but their story content in the early hours is pretty dry, but the hook that keeps me playing through the dry hours is the scope and scale of things that's presented so early (and it only expands from there). Similarly, Dragon Quest XI doesn't really hit a stride story-wise until about 3 hours in for me -- but I was carried through the opening hours by what I feel is a very charming art style and fun breezy tone, but I got fully committed once I realized that tone can be shaken up and alter dramatically.
I've had entire lengths of time in the past where my expectations and "needs" from games was radically different and didn't even favor narrative or tone or anything like that. I just wanted sort of a raw gameplay experience that was immediately satisfying, and at that time I tended to find it far more in multiplayer-focused games. But even then, it was always a nice thing to also get context and presentation that felt elevated and left a lasting impression. Ever since the 2013 debut of Last of Us and Grand Theft Auto V, though, I sort of started to grow an appreciation for cinematic presentation and context and tone all over again. 5 years later, it's tough to pin down exact preference things I enjoy about it, but it's something I've become far more cognizant of when I play games, and something I actively look for -- any sort of hook that motivate me to continue playing. Sometimes I want tons of charm and charisma, sometimes I want an emotional connection, etc... And I'm finding right now since I've grown an appreciation for presentation and context over the past 5 years, it's usually not too hard to find SOME hook in a lot of popular games nowadays.
In any case, it's fine for you to find that you don't really pay attention to that sort of thing -- I've been there. I don't know if I'd call it "impatience." It's just a lack of a hook.
Endless and boring dialogue cutscenes kills me. Pokemon Sun is a great example of tiring the player to death.
But I had find some impacience for Last of Us as well. Its a great game and the atmosphere is great. Its just that trying to keep undected takes way too much. I feel like I'm a snail.
But I had find some impacience for Last of Us as well. Its a great game and the atmosphere is great. Its just that trying to keep undected takes way too much. I feel like I'm a snail.
This seems like an example of not knowing what you're getting into. You don't play JRPGs expecting them to not have a ton of cutscenes. Frankly, I don't know why you would expect otherwise.
OP
OP
I've played countless jRPG and some have good pacing and some have horrible pacing. Xenosaga 3 has good pacing, the Torna DLC imo has horrible pacing.
You see it's not an issue I have with cutscenes per se.
There are a lot of popular games that are paced like slow FMV titles.
There's also a lot of full priced games that pace progression almost like f2p titles.
It's not about becoming impatient, it's about game designers hedging on poor design in an effort to make more money.
There's also a lot of full priced games that pace progression almost like f2p titles.
It's not about becoming impatient, it's about game designers hedging on poor design in an effort to make more money.
Even though the story is a large reason why I play games, I find myself skipping cutscenes because they are poorly paced, and because I feel I already know what gonna happen from the way the story is going.
This especially seem to happen in Japanese games. Valkyria Revolution may be a bad example since everything in it was bad. But every single cutscene in that game overstayed its welcome and should have been edited down.
This especially seem to happen in Japanese games. Valkyria Revolution may be a bad example since everything in it was bad. But every single cutscene in that game overstayed its welcome and should have been edited down.
Only when it's bad design.
Recently this happened in the newest Tomb Raider. Walk to new room and the point of interest for this rooms puzzle is on the center of the screen, because you walked through a narrow hallway. But then it plays a 5 - 10 second video to show you this thing that is already in the center of your screen. Infuriating.
Recently this happened in the newest Tomb Raider. Walk to new room and the point of interest for this rooms puzzle is on the center of the screen, because you walked through a narrow hallway. But then it plays a 5 - 10 second video to show you this thing that is already in the center of your screen. Infuriating.
Used to HATE when people would skip cutscenes. Now I mash the buttons most of the time if the game doesn't hook me in with a great story from the start.
I didn't like this style of delivery either
I would have preferred some exploring and then short cutscene a la uncharted
same
Just not worth the time anymore
The worst is unskippable tutorial intros and cutscenes fuckkkk lol
Longish loading screens when going from cutscene to gameplay, vice versa, cutscene to cutscene or gameplay to gameplay. Especially if the screen offers nothing more than gameplay tips. Also, ability to not skip cutscenes when for example there is a lengthy cutscene and the fight starts right after.. especially applies to subsequent playthroughs.
I understand what you mean OP.
That's why nowadays I only sit down to play a game if I know that I can devote at least a few (uninterrupted) hours to it. That's also why I would call myself a casual gamer even though I mostly play "real" games.
That's why nowadays I only sit down to play a game if I know that I can devote at least a few (uninterrupted) hours to it. That's also why I would call myself a casual gamer even though I mostly play "real" games.
It kind of depends. If it's something I'm doing of my own accord I can sit down and do it forever, like I wanted the top reward in the casino in Fist of the North Star so I sat down and played black jack and roulette for two days until I got it. But also in Fist of the North Star there's a mission where you have to go to a cursed village to which I'm like aight God's plan lets get it, but you need special tires to go there, but you can't buy the tire you have to go to another village, but they can't help you right now because their old man is missing in the desert, so you find him and bring him back but they don't actually have the tires, you're going to need to go compete in a race for them, and then I turn off my PS4 off for the night.
I'm usually always fine with cutscenes though, even if I don't care about the story of a game I like to know what's happening for context.
I'm usually always fine with cutscenes though, even if I don't care about the story of a game I like to know what's happening for context.
Pretty much. AAA games feel bloated for most part unless it's a multiplayer game like Fortnite where there is no story or a Nintendo game like Breath of the Wild where it is left to your own interpretation. I actually put down Skyrim recently (just as a break) because it's never ending and sucks up all my time.
If you are unable to enjoy God Of War for what it is you might want to think about quitting games and movies altogether.
I can like a game and not like parts of the game, I can enjoy god of war's combat and puzzles and not care for the story and cutscenes
I play games for the gameplay I don't find most game stories interesting, they are at best at the level of an average action movie.
Unskippable dialog and cutscenes? I have my iPad out
Unskippable dialog and cutscenes? I have my iPad out