there won't be any problem with switch 2 being like that, but switch 2 isn't coming in 2019.
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New Switch model coming in second half of 2019, reports Japanese WSJ
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This new model next year would be 944GFLOPs (if Foxconn leak's Switch clocks was in fact this device). That would allow developers to release 720p current Switch games and simply allow the more powerful Switch to run those games at 1080p. A shrink to 16nm would allow a 512 cuda core GPU to run under 3 watts at 921mhz.
Switch "Pro" coming November 2019 is about 33 Months after the launch of the Switch, PS4 Pro is 36 Months after PS4's launch. I don't think it's too soon to see an upgrade, but I do think it's too soon to see exclusive software, however I don't know if Nintendo would allow 3rd parties to offer Streaming versions on current Switch models, or simply just allow them to run worse, it's not like every game on the Switch is a solid 30fps or 60fps, some games don't run that well and this could continue with a Pro on the market.
I was going to quote half a dozen people above me, this person has it right:
Releasing a performance refresh every 3 years, following next year's model. Would allow Nintendo to do exactly what Iwata said they would do, move away from hardware relationships with their customers and move to an account based platform. You buy the Switch "Pro" and sign in on your Nintendo account and you have all your games and Nintendo Online right there.
Nintendo releasing a Switch 2.0 in 2022 wouldn't be a new platform, your current Switch would play many of the games, but the Switch Pro and Switch 2.0 might be able to play games that Switch can't (in 2022+). This is far better than Nintendo just releasing a new platform in 2022 that completely invalidates the current one and all (hopefully) 100 Million+ Switch users.
As for 4K, I don't think it would be a bad idea to launch an optional 4K dock in 2021, they could match PS5 and XBnext with some sort of 9TFLOPs+ GPU. The reason they would go so high in power is because you'd want to support 4K on the 2022 model, and that model would likely be 1024 cuda cores @ 1.1GHz (when docked) to reach 2.253TFLOPs, and run 944GFLOPs when portable.
It's not hard to see Nintendo go this route if they planned it all from the beginning and comments from Nvidia about a 20 year relationship, does seem to sound like they talked about this sort of progress for the platform, and I point out why I think that:
Switch originally was designed with a 307.2MHz portable clock and 768MHz clock. The relationship here is that the portable version of the current Switch, would run games at 720p and when docked, it would have enough GPU power to hit 1080p. Sadly 307.2MHz wasn't enough to run Zelda and other Wii U games at 720p without a dip in performance, this was only 157GFLOPs vs the Wii U's 176GFLOPs, so Nintendo upped the performance to 384MHz (196GFLOPs) but they couldn't match the ratio of performance needed when docked thanks to heat and throttling of the X1 chip itself. We've seen the Switch crack and battery expand, and while that is currently happening to a few (don't know the numbers and don't mean to make it sound small) customers, it would be much more widely spread if Nintendo ran the Switch GPU at 1GHz.
This isn't 100% the way they are going, there is a chance that this next model is just a 472GFLOPs docked performance chip, that would allow it to hit 1080p more regularly on the current lineup of games. I do think that Nintendo has to release the "Pro" Switch before the PS5 and XBnext hit the market, so that 3rd parties have a performance model to target with games that are cross gen in 2020 and 2021. If you don't have 10 Million+ customers running on that model, when you do release a new more powerful device to catch next gen multiplatform games, you'll be ignored until it's a hit. If you release a Pro that can also play these cross gen multiplatform games at 720p, that gives developers a reason in 2022 when they drop PS4 and XB1, to develop software for your system.
Current Switch users will continue to get brand new games for the next decade, but it might not get everything anymore after 5 and a half years, and I think that is fair. Streaming titles might very well be the future, and in that case, the Switch might always have a path to play the newest high performance games, but it's unrealistic to think that new more powerful devices wouldn't also be released.
So yes Thraktor, 2022 and 7nm+ is a better time to match next gen consoles, I just think that a ~1TFLOP console should still be able to receive cross gen and even next gen games at 720p (even if dynamic resolution is applied) and is a healthier and less risky transition to betting everything on the Switch 2022 device to also be a hit, when it completely breaks compatibility of everything behind it. Not doing that, would bring forward the platform in continuality like Iwata suggested 3 years ago.
Except that's not what's happening at all because the Switch 1 just came out.
This is in the context of Nintendo releasing hardware like Apple release phones, without any real clear generational breaks, but with regular hardware revisions.
Due to tech limitations, a revision coming out in 2019 will definitely not reach PS4's power unless there can be a connection with CPU/GPUs in the dock.
I see. Unless there is a special dock with CPUs/GPUs (which would be expensive and only helps docked-play), the revision will definitely still be under the PS4 in power. It can still be more powerful with more RAM and higher clockspeeds and better battery life due to a die shrink, though. I suspect that Nintendo will go that route because the joy cons (in practice and in how well the controllers are selling are pretty important for the Switch.
Theoretically would a tegra based arch scale easily to a lower end Pascal/touring arch? Just wondering if NV may have cooked up some kind of 1050/2050 based SOC for nintendo.
Even the PS4 Pro can't run the game in 4k native. So I think nobody expects a Switch Pro to do that...
Which will not happen.
Revisions are happening. But generations are going nowhere.
i don't see nintendo adapting the apple system, at least not for upgrades that happen every two years. the thing is, game development is a long process, it takes 3 or 4 years to make a big nintendo game, that won't work well with video game consoles that get upgrades every two years. apple's system works because all app/game developers still want their apps to work on devices that are 4 or even 5 years old at the point of release, and that's not what gamers who have the newest system would want, to buy games that are designed with hardware in mind that's two generations older than theirs.
i think people are just overcomplicating things here. i think once switch has been in the market for 4.5, 5 years, nintendo will just announce a switch 2, backwards compatible with switch games but a completely new platform that will get it's own games. a pro version of the current system isn't impossible, but i don't see the point in that either. and IF it did exist, i don't expect it to have any exclusive software made for it (so even less than n3DS or DSi which got a few exclusive games). there are no xbo or ps4 games that are pro/x excluisive and don't run on the base system, i don't expect nintendo to suddenly put out an upgrade and lock the however many millions of switch that are already out there from playing the new games.
Just because something hasn't happened in the past doesn't mean it won't happen. That's faulty logic.
It makes sense for a phone where the business model pretty much relies on upgrading once every couple of years and getting an upgrade is easy but for a game console there's little/no reason to. It made sense for PS and Xbox because 4K started taking off soon after the PS4 and Xbone were released and needed to capitalize on that craze but for the most part, especially in Nintendo's case there's no reason to do something like that. For the record the iPhone and I think the Apple Watch are the only products to be updated every year. None of apple's products especially for specific use cases like the Mac Pro aren't updated nearly as often.
their laptops get yearly updates too, but it's not so people feel like they have to update each year. it's so that once you've used your current laptop for 4/5/6 years and feel like it's time for an upgrade, there's one on the market that's just released and feels new.
there's really no reason to bring apple's update cycles into this discussion, cuz the similarities are just not there. the way console generation and game development cycles work, an apple update system doesn't make any sense, and the video game audience wouldn't be receptive to a system like that.
What this revision will be like:
- DS Lite
- Xbox One S
- PSP 2000
- Vita 2000
- PS4 Slim
What this revision will not be like:
- PS4 Pro
- Xbox One X
- whatever you imagine with a billion new features
- DS Lite
- Xbox One S
- PSP 2000
- Vita 2000
- PS4 Slim
What this revision will not be like:
- PS4 Pro
- Xbox One X
- whatever you imagine with a billion new features
Did people forget what happened before the Switch launch ? People were expecting way too much of a small portable system sold at a reasonable price. It's best to keep your expectations low instead of wishing for the very unlikely.
Personally here's what I'd like Nintendo to do which I think is possible granted the timing : same screen size but less bezels, better wifi chip to make it on par with most phones connectivity, maybe more battery life and a better/wider kickstand. That's it, and maybe they'll launch "pro" joycons that would look like a smaller pro controller split in half (so better grip, sticks and buttons placed diagonally and a dpad). Though I kinda doubt it because they'd need to provide new cases for those and this obviously goes against their "multiplayer anywhere" concept.
Personally here's what I'd like Nintendo to do which I think is possible granted the timing : same screen size but less bezels, better wifi chip to make it on par with most phones connectivity, maybe more battery life and a better/wider kickstand. That's it, and maybe they'll launch "pro" joycons that would look like a smaller pro controller split in half (so better grip, sticks and buttons placed diagonally and a dpad). Though I kinda doubt it because they'd need to provide new cases for those and this obviously goes against their "multiplayer anywhere" concept.
i would also add DSi and n3DS to the things it won't be like. i don't even expect that small of a spec bump or a tiny insignifant amount of exclusive software.
Because Nintendo consoles are aimed at kids. The rest speaks for itself.
Had to wait a few weeks before getting the original, don't want to miss out again!
I 100% expect a spec bump of some kind. Not something outrageous, and nothing that will split the software pool, but will allow games to run smoother at a slightly higher resolution.
I really really hope so. My concern is that Nintendo don't tend to do what everyone else do, and they're a bit stuck in the past. So I think it will be a slim model.
But there's every chance it could be a Pro.
PS5 buyers will get games that were in development for 2-4 years too, many of them designed with PS4 in mind which is years old, that's no problem imo. I mean we don't know what will happen, it's a speculation thread about a rumor and there are different possibilities.
Also Nintendo probably wouldn't lock Switches out when it comes to nintendo games or "the new games". The question is if they will allow 3rds to make exclusive games (if the new console is more capable) and if 3rds even want to do that. I guess we will see (or not).
So you're just imagining form factor changes despite it would probably break compability with current accessories and the three Switch modes?
this is just don't see happening or nintendo allowing it, and i don't see many 3rd parties jumping on it either. if a pro did exist, the current system will certainly still be on the shelves at a reduced price, and it'll have a 30ish million unit head start, and likely continue to sell as well (or even better, with the reduced price and all) than the pro version. i don't see many 3rd parties targeting the small pro-only market.
not necessarily. they can do a lot without breaking any compatibility. better battery life, better build quality, better screen (same resolution), bigger screen through smaller bezels, better kickstand, etc
It can be streamed, in japan, wow. It doesn't run natively on Switch, because Switch couldn't handle it without downgrading it to hell and back. I love my Switch, but it's not made to run games like that.
I thought it would be sarcasm, but still :P
I don't see how better battery life happens without a new more efficient chip and once a new chip is a thing it's a bit more than a simple battery upgrade really.
how did the battery life improve in DS lite compared to the original DS? they had the same chip, and DS lite was smaller and lighter.
they just put a bigger battery in there
pro is coming, with pro-only wave race and RDR2. start putting coins in that piggy bank.
Just trying to imagine what this Switch revision you envision is.
Unless I've missed something since, Matt seemed pretty clear on it being a Pro type device.
The only thing I saw in common with the hardware you listed was form factor changes so.
The point of my listing was to say it will not be a major change but a more refined model, like the DS -> DS lite or Xbox One -> One S transition
DSi and n3DS were each a pretty huge spec bump. Bigger than PS4 Pro in some ways.
So is your problem exclusives? Because while some people think that will happen, most people talking about a more powerful Switch, don't believe Nintendo has to do that and think that you wouldn't see exclusives on switch 2019 model until another more powerful Switch is released in 2022, 5 and a half years after the current switch.
I do think other cheaper models will release as well.
It could be very interesting how nintendo is going to sell it to us IF its indeed a switch pro. If brought wrong they could very well upset people who bought a switch this holiday if it has exclusive games. On the other hand if it doesnt have excl games its wasting HW potential, look at the 1x and ps4pro. They could do so much more if they weren't shackled to the base systems.
But come to think of it, didnt iwata say that they want to have an ecosystem of different devices with NX. What if this rumored device is a stationary console or is that out of the question? It can share the same architecture and share a library but heavy games are Pro only.
But come to think of it, didnt iwata say that they want to have an ecosystem of different devices with NX. What if this rumored device is a stationary console or is that out of the question? It can share the same architecture and share a library but heavy games are Pro only.
In the case of those models, they were used to make the OS faster and not so much to improve games. Yeah they exist but that wasn't really why they did it.
i personally don't have a problem with them, i just don't think they'll happen. whatever this revision is, i'll very likely get it day 1, even if it is just a switch with better/bigger screen or improved batter life.
i guess they felt insignificant because very few games actually used the improved specs.
Not really, maybe some minor changes but I was mostly talking about a refined design, slightly bigger screen, less bezels, better overall build quality, maybe a tad different size.
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