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Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
Dota 2 and CS:GO are fun and they make money.
They are not fun to me. And Half Life also made money. Not as much as these two but again, I dont care, Im a consumer and I want the thing, and the only company that can produce said thing refuses to. So I complain. And then they laugh. And so it goes.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
and the only company that can produce said thing refuses to

Valve is cool with people making use of their IPs in original works. If your project is good enough, they might even outright hire you and make it an official valve product, or let you release it for profit, like Portal Stories or Black Mesa.

Really nothing stopping fans from making Episode 3 really. The basic plot to Episode 3 has already leaked online, it's not like people don't know what happens.

As someone who uses what Valve spends most of it's time making these days to make myself money, I'd much, much rather them continue devoting R&D to their dev tools than making Episode 3. Because my career has been pretty tied to Valve technologies all the way down to SDL2.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,360
Yea but

1324596542030_7713053.png


so true
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
And then you have devs like telltale
I'd hope Valve would be a bit better then that.
Valve is cool with people making use of their IPs in original works. If your project is good enough, they might even outright hire you and make it an official valve product, or let you release it for profit, like Portal Stories or Black Mesa.

Really nothing stopping fans from making Episode 3 really. The basic plot to Episode 3 has already leaked online, it's not like people don't know what happens.

This is the funnies damn excuse I've ever heard to defend a company.

"Sure the people you want to make the game have no jnterest in finishing the story they left on a cliffhanger almost twelve years ago, but they don't mind if you do the work for them!"

Yeah because that's what the fans want I'm sure. It won't have the production values, the same writers, the planers, or even the voice actors most likely.

But hey like the Mighty No 9 people said, "it's better then nothing."

I mean can you believe Capcom is waisting their time actually making Devil May Cry 5 themselves when they can just have the fans do it? Don't they know they could be making more money not doing that?!?

Fuck I think I actually hurt myself with all this sarcasm.
 

Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
Valve is cool with people making use of their IPs in original works. If your project is good enough, they might even outright hire you and make it an official valve product, or let you release it for profit, like Portal Stories or Black Mesa.
Are they really cool with someone else making a full-on numbered sequel though? And obviously not everyone has the talent, people and budget that Valve has to make a sequel that would feel satisfactionary. I mean hell, apparently no one has impressed Valve yet enough to make HL3 for them, or no one really tried.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,828
It's 2018 and people are still mad over Half Life 3? Like, actually, really, non-ironically mad over it? Wow.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
This is the funnies damn excuse I've ever heard to defend a company.

It comes from first hand experience. Everything I've posted, I did. I worked on Half Life 2 VR, we caught Valve's attention, they actually reached out to us.

"Sure the people you want to make the game have no jnterest in finishing the story they left on a cliffhanger almost twelve years ago, but they don't mind if you do the work for them!"

It's actually a lot of posters demanding Valve pivot their company philosophy back to merely making games, which would FUCK OVER people like me who depend on their current company philosophy to operate. I heavily rely on all the tools Valve is essentially solely propping up right now. What Valve does today is way more important to me than seeing Episode 3.

Yeah because that's what the fans want I'm sure.

It's what people who make games want.

I mean can you believe Capcom is waisting their time actually making Devil May Cry 5 themselves when they can just have the fans do it? Don't they know they could be making more money not doing that?!?

It's more like being incredulous that Epic spends its time working on Unreal Engine rather than Unreal. I'd imagine most of the industry is damn happy Epic devotes their resources to UE4 primarily rather than shifting all their weight onto the new Unreal Tournament.

At a certain point, these technologies become tent poles that essentially prop up a lot of the entire industry. What Valve does is incredibly important.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
They should develop an app that lets employees pass and place their custom sprays on it with their phone.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
It comes from first hand experience. Everything I've posted, I did. I worked on Half Life 2 VR, we caught Valve's attention, they actually reached out to us.

Good for you. I'm being genuine I'm happy that worked for you.

But as someone who gives no shits about programming and just wants an official conclusion to the damn story it's nothing but worthless patronization.

As for the rest of your post you'll forgive me for thinking that Valve should be talented or big enough to be able to make a new single player game AND make software tools. Because by this logic how are you not utterly terrified by the precise of that new card game?

Because that's not them making software tools?

Won't that destroy your very way of life?!?
 

Deleted member 21326

User requested account closure.
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Oct 28, 2017
1,080
I laughed when i saw this, its clearly meant as fun. Cant see why anyone would be offended over this.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
But as someone who gives no shits about programming and just wants an official conclusion to the damn story it's nothing but worthless patronization.

As opposed to demanding an entity stop working on what works for them, philosophically and commercially, and get back to your game? That somehow doesn't register as pure antogonistic entitlement?

As for the rest of your post you'll forgive me for thinking that Valve should be talented or big enough to be able to make a new single player game AND make software tools. Because by this logic how are you not utterly terrified by the precise of that new card game?

Valve has about 300 employees. To put this in perspective, Valve is smaller than Naughty Dog. The types of things they work on, their primary competition is Microsoft R&D. The type of development they do for the games industry is developer focused. They create tools that other developers use. That is literally their primary industry.

Yes, expecting 300 people do to that AND make a bunch of games all at once is unrealistic.

I very much doubt the card game takes the type of resources needed to make Half Life 3. Meanwhile, the types of skills needed to make something like Half Life 3, can be applied to all sorts of other technologies they work on (and are).

By the way, you were literally never ever getting an official ending to the story. For someone who cares so much, you really don't do very much research into the writing process for the half life games. These games aren't written with a grand plot in mind, they said they write them like soap operas, inventing twists whenever they please, with emphasis on keeping going. Like, look at the way Epstle 3 ended -- it was wide open for an Episode 4 without really resolving anything.
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,640
Good for you. I'm being genuine I'm happy that worked for you.

But as someone who gives no shits about programming and just wants an official conclusion to the damn story it's nothing but worthless patronization.

As for the rest of your post you'll forgive me for thinking that Valve should be talented or big enough to be able to make a new single player game AND make software tools. Because by this logic how are you not utterly terrified by the precise of that new card game?

Because that's not them making software tools?

Won't that destroy your very way of life?!?
Even if Valve did make HL3, it wouldn't be able to live up to the humongous and unrealistic expectations placed on it. The only way I do see that happening is if Valve made it a VR game and revolutionized the VR shooter genre in some way. Really from a business perspective, there's no point taking that risk when the company is well-off with Steam, CSGO and Dota. Sucks but you gotta understand that we won't be seeing Half-Life for a long time and that isn't a bad thing. I'm interested in seeing where Valve goes with VR. There was that write up by Laidlaw which serves as closure to HL2, if it satiates your hunger in some way, you should check it out.

https://pastebin.com/q9DMFa7c
 

Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
It's 2018 and people are still mad over Half Life 3? Like, actually, really, non-ironically mad over it? Wow.
Mad is a strong word. But whenever I hear about the company doing something I just cant divorce it from that cliffhanger and disappointment of years of no news from my head. Especially with jokes meant to mock it, like Gabe still refusing to say number 3, like if the company has moved on then actually move on.

Honestly though, not at all important and I'l be over it in 10 to 20 minutes from now, until next time that is. What can I say Im human and I have attachment to stupid, pointless things that came at the right time of my life, Im just being honest here.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,360
Sony acknowledges Banderas Meme and Fake Kaz Hirai:
"That's so cute, they totally understand us! Aren't they adorable?"

Valve displays a meme on an overhead projector to get laughs out of visiting guests:
"Look at those assholes! They have time for this but not to make Games!"***

*** Only single-player-games count.
 

Echo

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,482
Mt. Whatever
Wouldn't be a Valve thread without people trying to shit it up.

I think it's funny. They probably did this just for the tour you know? I mean it's a screen that they can change at any time lol.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
As opposed to demanding an entity stop working on what works for them, philosophically and commercially, and get back to your game? That somehow doesn't register as pure antogonistic entitlement?



Valve has about 300 employees. To put this in perspective, Valve is smaller than Naughty Dog. The types of things they work on, their primary competition is Microsoft R&D. The type of development they do for the games industry is developer focused. They create tools that other developers use. That is literally their primary industry.

Yes, expecting 300 people do to that AND make a bunch of games all at once is unrealistic.

I very much doubt the card game takes the type of resources needed to make Half Life 3. Meanwhile, the types of skills needed to make something like Half Life 3, can be applied to all sorts of other technologies they work on (and are).

Maybe don't end your story base game on a cliffhanger, and instead of just admitting the series doesn't interest them anymore because it doesn't pay, they continue to just play cute about Half-life and continue to cock tease any fans with the hope of "well hay maybe someday/take time/etc etc."

But your right it's selfish. Frankly st this point I just want them to hire the writer to make Half-life 3 a fucking book and I'd be fine with that. But as someone who doesn't care about PC gaming or programming, all the "good" Valve does is really hard to care about.

I'm not demanding anything of Valve, I'm pissed at the fact they did nothing with this series for so long and I'd really like them to finish it. But I don't expect for one second to listen to some pissed off asshole on the internet. It's venting. I'm never not going to be at least a little mad about this because I was really into the story when I was younger. Much like Legends fans probably are about Legends 3 or how I still want Viewtiful Joe 3.

Look I'm sorry if I made you mad and believe me when I say I'm happy your doing good with their current setup. I hope the best for you in the future and that your endeviours continue to grow. I never wished for you to go out of business because, again, I'm just some angry dude posting sarcastic remarks on the internet. I really doubt Valve is going to lose an asston of profits over me.

Hope you have a good day.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
Seems like a screen wih probably change picture often, still fun that they embrace the meme.

Valve has about 300 employees. To put this in perspective, Valve is smaller than Naughty Dog. The types of things they work on, their primary competition is Microsoft R&D. The type of development they do for the games industry is developer focused. They create tools that other developers use. That is literally their primary industry.
I have no interest in HL3 but still I never get the argument when it comes to hugely successfull entity ( to be fair I mostly hear it with Valve and years ago with Mojang ), that it's not that they don't want to, but can't do something because they are too small for that. Their size is a choice, so is its consequenses.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Valve has about 300 employees. To put this in perspective, Valve is smaller than Naughty Dog.

I think there is an argument that Valve could afford to expand to more than 300 employees, but what they already do with the numbers they have is quite frankly astounding. They are still only hiring people who are effectively senior programmers and system engineers, right? People like the DXVK dev.

That's an entirely different point, though. Normally it's a bunch of memes and BS about how Valve doesn't do anything which couldn't be less true.

Sony acknowledges Banderas Meme and Fake Kaz Hirai:
"That's so cute, they totally understand us! Aren't they adorable?"

Valve displays a meme on an overhead projector to get laughs out of visiting guests:
"Look at those assholes! They have time for this but not to make Games!"***

*** Only single-player-games count.

Pretty much.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I have no interest in HL3 but still I never get the argument when it comes to hugely successfull entity ( to be fair I mostly hear it with Valve and years ago with Mojang ), that it's not that they don't want to, but can't do something because they are too small for that. Their size is a choice, so is its consequenses.

When people say Valve is small, they are saying they recognize the benefits being small affords them, which is precisely why they're the type of entity that would devote large amounts of money towards technologies they don't even own in the end. The "consequence" of not being big enough to develop Half Life 3 while simultaneously having the agility and flexibility to operate the way they do in the developer sphere is minor compared to the benefit.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,360
If Valve ever makes Half-Life 3, they should do it in a separate Corporation.
So if there are any financial issues or the game bombs, that it would not put Steam in Danger. Steam is a hundred, no a thousand times more important than a new entry in the Half-Life Universe.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I think there is an argument that Valve could afford to expand to more than 300 employees, but what they already do with the numbers they have is quite frankly astounding. They are still only hiring people who are effectively senior programmers and system engineers, right? People like the DXVK dev.

That's an entirely different point, though. Normally it's a bunch of memes and BS about how Valve doesn't do anything which couldn't be less true.

I very much believe that if Valve chose to spend it's money on hiring developers for large single player campaigns like traditional studios do, it would come at the expense of their funding to projects like SDL2 and DXVK. They not only fund those projects, their engineers actually contribute to their development directly, as in by pushing commits. You'll never really find any commit on a large project attributed to Valve directly, but if you follow their individual employees, they're contributing to tons of projects online.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Read Epistle 3 by Marc Laidlaw, it gives you the story of Episode 3 people. Unfortunately it ends on an even bigger cliffhanger than Episode 2 and you'll feel gutted about all the sights that could've been seen using Source Engine 2, I would've loved to see that Dyson Sphere.

Hopefully some hardcore fans somewhere can manage to work out a demo for it and entice Valve to help them, that's about the only way we can ever see Episode 3 in game form.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Marc Laidlaw actually did basically just this.

Still ends on a cliff hanger and leaves the story unfinished but I get your point. Still not the most satisfying conclusion but I give you that it's better then anything Valve had actually done up until that point.

Like someone said above I'll be over this in an hour, it's just any time I'm reminded of this it's still irritating. So many stories remain unfinished because of a lack of profits or their being to small an audience. To the point that something like Shenmue 3 almost seems like a miracle. And yet we see one game where none of that would be a problem yet it still remains unfinished.

It's frustrating but much like the last few times I got mad I'll get over it.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
I very much believe that if Valve chose to spend it's money on hiring developers for large single player campaigns like traditional studios do, it would come at the expense of their funding to projects like SDL2 and DXVK. They not only fund those projects, their engineers actually contribute to their development directly, as in by pushing commits. You'll never really find any commit on a large project attributed to Valve directly, but if you follow their individual employees, they're contributing to tons of projects online.

Which is why I believe if Valve is ever interested in the IP again they should license it to a 3rd party studio, they had dealings with Gearbox and Arkane before, so why not. Laidlaw could be hired back for the story and Valve sticks to hardware/software dev.
 

Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
User Warned: Ableist language
Valve: let's have a bit of tongue in cheek fun with this tour

Resetera: reeeeeee! so egotistical! make half-life not shitty card games!
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
When people say Valve is small, they are saying they recognize the benefits being small affords them, which is precisely why they're the type of entity that would devote large amounts of money towards technologies they don't even own in the end. The "consequence" of not being big enough to develop Half Life 3 while simultaneously having the agility and flexibility to operate the way they do in the developer sphere is minor compared to the benefit.
So in your opinion they would inherently loose something big if say, they had a separate office with 30-100 ( entirely random number there ) employe dedicated to game developement ( could be for new projects, or for the post release support of their current games where they clearly struggle too ).
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Still ends on a cliff hanger and leaves the story unfinished but I get your point. Still not the most satisfying conclusion but I give you that it's better then anything Valve had actually done up until that point.

Like someone said above I'll be over this in an hour, it's just any time I'm reminded of this it's still irritating. So many stories remain unfinished because of a lack of profits or their being to small an audience. To the point that something like Shenmue 3 almost seems like a miracle. And yet we see one game where none of that would be a problem yet it still remains unfinished.

It's frustrating but much like the last few times I got mad I'll get over it.

Here's another thing -- I don't think Half Life 3 is necessarily dead forever. Like Shenmue 3, there could come a day when Valve picks the project up. Like many of their other projects, I would imagine it would probably start, as I said, with a fan project being absorbed into Valve and made into an official product. In fact, there are actually a few Episode 3 projects out there currently in early stages doing just that, like project borealis.

Suggesting fans try their hands at making HL3 wasn't snark. I'm seriously, honestly suggesting people passionate about HL3 actually try it out. You never know where it'll end up. And, unlike many companies, Valve is really open to that sort of stuff.

Which is why I believe if Valve is ever interested in the IP again they should license it to a 3rd party studio, they had dealings with Gearbox and Arkane before, so why not. Laidlaw could be hired back for the story and Valve sticks to hardware/software dev.

Hence my suggestion.
 

shan780

The Fallen
Nov 2, 2017
2,566
UK
man, some of the valve hate is fucking unbelievable

I thought it was funny reading the OP, but apparently it's "dear leader-ish" and "off-putting"
lighten up
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
So in your opinion they would inherently loose something big if say, they had a separate office with 30-100 ( entirely random number there ) employe dedicated to game developement ( could be for new projects, or for the post release support of their current games where they clearly struggle too ).

Expanding the company size by 33%? Yeah, that would inherently change the way they operate, definitely. Also, a group of 30-100 people would be on the smaller side of modern AAA game development.

EDIT: Also, valve struggles with post release support? Uh, what?
 

Abcdude

Member
Sep 9, 2018
136
Lol of course this thread just devolved into people upset about half life 3.

Look, I've come to terms with that shit never happening, its just a joke. Where Valve really grabs my goat is how they've made Steam into a digital-item driven uncurrated mess while they sit back and count what theyve gotten out of their enourmous cut.

The sales they're memed for are barely an event anymore, none of their communities seem happy at all, tons of scams going on through their platform and they don't give a rat's ass.

The risk taking side of Valve seems dead as far as I can tell.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Which is why I believe if Valve is ever interested in the IP again they should license it to a 3rd party studio, they had dealings with Gearbox and Arkane before, so why not. Laidlaw could be hired back for the story and Valve sticks to hardware/software dev.
The Gearbox games kinda sucked though
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Sure but is it not true?

Not really, this idea that steam is some sort of a mess where good games can't be found is propped up by a bunch of youtubers who go out of their way to find bad games to complain about. My steam homepage isn't full of shit, in fact most of it is games I'd actually be interested in.


I don't see what at all about that is a mess. In fact, Steam's homepage is entirely curated, just not by them. It's curated by people i actually talk to and consider their opinions trust worthy on the internet. Seriously, if you're finding nothing but shit on steam, they give you lots of tools to change your curation. Follow better people.

And the idea that Valve just sits back and doesn't earns their cut (which is not enormous) is ridiculous, see this thread for extremely detailed breakdown from actual developers as to why: https://www.resetera.com/threads/st...cut-is-fair-says-ceo-of-larian-studios.71001/
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Sure but is it not true?
Not really, no. In fact, spreading this nonsense is one of the major things which has turned me completely off of Jim Sterling.

Their cut is the same as every other major storefront (with the exception of Itch.io).

They spend a huge number of resources developing tools for developers, and also open source projects which benefit everyone interested in PC gaming. There's also the VR work they have done. This notion that they just sit back on their money doesn't really hold up.

Their approach to curation is not an issue, it is a difference in philosophy. Valve's philosophy being that it is better to only do the most basic level of curation (viruses, trolling games, "game shaped objects", are not allowed) and have discoverability features which show people the games they might actually be interested in while making sure the trash gets filtered out.

A philosophy which works well and is much better than the alternative of not having good games available on the platform, which is what inevitably happens with every single manual curation method. It is what happened to Steam in the past. It is what happens with GOG now. It is what always happens. Games like what Jim Sterling talks about are basically hidden away never to be seen unless you are someone like Jim and specifically go looking for it for Youtube views.

Oh and by the way, the front page is curated manually.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Not really, this idea that steam is some sort of a mess where good games can't be found is propped up by a bunch of youtubers who go out of their way to find bad games to complain about. My steam homepage isn't full of shit, in fact most of it is games I'd actually be interested in.



I don't see what at all about that is a mess. In fact, Steam's homepage is entirely curated, just not by them. It's curated by people i actually talk to and consider their opinions trust worthy on the internet. Seriously, if you're finding nothing but shit on steam, they give you lots of tools to change your curation. Follow better people.

And the idea that Valve just sits back and doesn't earns their cut (which is not enormous) is ridiculous, see this thread for extremely detailed breakdown from actual developers as to why: https://www.resetera.com/threads/st...cut-is-fair-says-ceo-of-larian-studios.71001/


There's one problem that Valve deserve criticism, it's their moderation or lack thereof, I know that they're looking into it and probably offloading it to the developers of each game, but the fact is that from my experience Valve tolerates the presence of racist and extremist groups on their community forums. I had to spam the report button 15 times to get a couple of Holocaust denies banned from the Total War Rome 2 Steam forum. I know the community is vast, but making it less of a toxic cesspool goes a long way.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
Expanding the company size by 33%? Yeah, that would inherently change the way they operate, definitely. Also, a group of 30-100 people would be on the smaller side of modern AAA game development.
Again I have zero interest in HL3, so my question isn't specificaly aimed at AAA developement. As someone who played TF2 and play Dota 2, I've actually heard the size argument far more often in the context of those game post release support than when it comes to HL3.
It's also why I give random number because they don't specifically mean the same thing, 30 is closer to a team size for a game support ( only number I've read when it comes to dota 2 dev at some point was 28 people worked on dota at some point, must be closer to 10 now I guess, and it shows ); it's also in the range of what we read for smaller projects like those recently aquired by microsoft ( Hellblade, We happy Few ).
While 100 is either closer to AAA developement, on the smaller side like you said, or allow about 3 separate team of 30.

But you still kind of answer my question, you don't think Valve couldn't grow in size without impacting the entirety of the company.
That's where I personnaly disagree, but with no proof obviously, and I do get I might be wrong there. I don't see why you can't have current Valve doing it's thing ( and I sure don't want them to stop working on VR or even SDL ), while at the same time have separate division/teams have a.. less flexible (?) for lack of better term, organization to get more games projects out of the gate ( like say VR games ) and their multiplayer mastodon like TF2 and Dota 2 have a better support ( and I expect the same might be true with Artefact in a couple years ).
 
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