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Senate procedural vote on Kavanaugh set for 10:30am ET (10/5)

Kirblar

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
This is the correct take on messaging. There were restrictions on how to talk about this because people were trying to flip Flake/Collins. Now that their votes are locked in, holding back is no longer necessary.


Apharmd said:
Agreed. Puerto Rico would be the best place to start.
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DC's even better because lol @ a republican getting elected there. But really, go to 57. Just do it.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,853
Darth Vapor said:
Maybe so in Illinois. Idk, here in Missouri the Bronze plans are about $350 before any tax credit deductions. I agree it's not a perfect plan and is unreasonably beneficial to insurers but it has saved lives and it hits close to home because those I knew who had pre-existing conditions have had insurance for years now.

I'm not trying to minimize your struggle. I wish it helped more people but my point is without a centrist approach to healthcare at the time, we would have nothing.

I respect your passion and agree with your principles, it's frustrating....
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Don't worry, I'm not mad at you or anything, and I'm glad the ACA helped people you know. I just wish we could help those people and the people for whom health getting insurance at all is a challenge.

As long as scumbag insurance companies and hospitals collude with each other to overcharge on everything so they hold all the cards, health care is fundamentally broken in this country.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Dierce said:
We'll just have to win a seat in some other state. No majority is a steak now, even less so without the presidency. It's better to get rid of him now than later. At least it will send a message that the Democratic party wont stand for traitors.
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Listen to yourself. The vote was going through either way, he's already in the general.
 
Ithil

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,392
LukeOP said:
Go ahead and nominate another gore or Hillary of some other equally loser candidate. I'll tell you this, the Democrats will lose.
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That you are unable to discern a middle ground between "Ambulance chaser with a sharp tongue" and Clinton tells everyone all they need to know frankly.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
"We need to fight the GOP and make sure they never gain power again" says forum poster willing to give up a limited seat position that went 65% R in 2014.
 
Spirit of Jazz

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
LukeOP said:
What achievements does he require? Just because he isn't a career politician doesn't mean he is not qualified for being President. He's more than competent enough and he's way more charismatic than any of the names floating out there from the current pool of democrats.
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I'd rather have someone run who can attract their voters through policy rather than charisma alone. Someone with an idea of how important wealth distribution is, that has clear plans on how to stop the wealthy and banks from robbing the country, someone who'll passionately talk about equality in a way that can unite the working and middle class regardless of race. Not another neo-lib who does nothing with their 8 years that can't be undone in one, continues to support warcrime, and creates a landscape for another Trump to take over.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
PlanetSmasher said:
Don't worry, I'm not mad at you or anything, and I'm glad the ACA helped people you know. I just wish we could help those people and the people for whom health getting insurance at all is a challenge.

As long as scumbag insurance companies and hospitals collude with each other to overcharge on everything so they hold all the cards, health care is fundamentally broken in this country.
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It did. Millions of people who did not have health insurance now do under Medicaid.
 
Betty

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Following this whole ordeal even casually it seemed pretty obvious what the outcome would be.

Short of the guy being caught on video 'doing' something then he was always going to get through.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Thorn said:
And you think this vote will somehow protect him now?
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That was for the other senator in WV. He won handily in 2012 gaining over 60% of the vote. But yeah let's give up 1 of only 100 seats because he acts like a garbage person when it doesn't even matter.
 
Ponn

Ponn

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,171
Matt said:
He
Kept
The
ACA
Alive.

Why are you so willing to hurt poor people for the benefit of....nothing. Absolutely nothing would have changed if he voted differently.

Your rhetoric is unhelpful and emotion rather than fact based. I don't actually think you want to hurt poor people, why would you actually think I want to throw any marginalized groups under the bus?
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Bullshit with that narrative. The usual moderates flipped a coin on who was going to vote on that. Even Republicans knew they were going to be in trouble the way they were going with that with no plan to replace it. If Manchin hadn't voted against it then there was 4 other Republicans that were afraid of their constituents that would have stepped in like Heller. That wasn't as controversial or hard of a vote because even Republican voters were suddenly realizing they would be screwed.

And I think there are a group of Dems that would throw marginalized groups under the bus because THATS WHATS FUCKING HAPPENING IN THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW!

"Well, it's a shame Ford was treated this way and all those women were protesting and arrested for it but look Manchin needs his seat for the important votes that are still calculated in the end."

Now I'm sure next up is the purity test accusations and I will gladly take it. Yes I draw the fucking line at voting yes to a rapist, repeat sexual assaulter to the Supreme Court. That damn conscience of mine keeping me from viewing that as just another political game.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
PlanetSmasher said:
And yet there is a startling amount of people who can't afford coverage at all because they don't qualify for Medicaid and don't have jobs that provide them with reasonable coverage.
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Yes, that's very true, and very sad, and a complete disgrace.

But the ACA has, factually, improved and saved millions and millions of lives. That is didn't do nearly everything that should be done for healthcare in the country does not change that fact.
 
thefit

thefit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,243
LukeOP said:
This is why we are going to lose in 2020.

Jesus Christ.
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No one wants to believe politics have changed permanently to their hard edges and are still is this fantasy land where their dream senator/congress perso just has to be nominated because "norms". That's gone, Trump no matter how much the GOP hate him have given them EVERYTHING. Squandering another nomination on a politician in office will cost the Dems 2020.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Ponn said:
Bullshit with that narrative. The usual moderates flipped a coin on who was going to vote on that. Even Republicans knew they were going to be in trouble the way they were going with that with no plan to replace it. If Manchin hadn't voted against it then there was 4 other Republicans that were afraid of their constituents that would have stepped in like Heller. That wasn't as controversial or hard of a vote because even Republican voters were suddenly realizing they would be screwed.

And I think there are a group of Dems that would throw marginalized groups under the bus because THATS WHATS FUCKING HAPPENING IN THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW!

"Well, it's a shame Ford was treated this way and all those women were protesting and arrested for it but look Manchin needs his seat for the important votes that are still calculated in the end."

Now I'm sure next up is the purity test accusations and I will gladly take it. Yes I draw the fucking line at voting yes to a rapist, repeat sexual assaulter to the Supreme Court. That damn conscience of mine keeping me from viewing that as just another political game.
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This is just not true. You are inventing facts to back up your position.
 
manchego obfuscator

manchego obfuscator

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
Matt said:
No, we haven't. That's...that's just wrong.

And I am not a centrist, never claimed to be and would never want to be. I'm very proud to be very liberal.

I am just unwilling to, for example, steal the healthcare from millions of Americans in the name of pointless ideological purity.
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Being to the left of the Democratic establishment on certain issues doesn't mean anything if you vehemently defend the establishment against anyone who might push it to the left every time the subject comes up.

But IIRC, you work as a consultant for the party or something along those lines, which explains a lot.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,853
thefit said:
No one wants to believe politics have changed permanently to their hard edges and are still is this fantasy land where their dream senator/congress perso just has to be nominated because "norms". That's gone, Trump no matter how much the GOP hate him have given them EVERYTHING. Squandering another nomination on a politician in office will cost the Dems 2020.
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So what, the alternative is some failure who acts like the human personification of Twitter? Insults alone will not a president make.
 
Ayahuasca

Ayahuasca

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,456
Avenatti would probably pound the shit out of Trump, literally, during a debate then he'd rip out his dentures, rip off his hairpiece, and spray paint him white.
 
Jadentheman

Jadentheman

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,207
Ithil said:
And Trump has been the biggest disaster as president imaginable. What was your point again?
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I am saying you don't need to be groomed anymore. The "traditional" way is done and people don't want "traditional" because that is most likely establishment corporate centrist garbage.

We need a firebrand person that can bring the message clear as day for regular people. And at least he has progressive views and plans for the country
 
chubigans

chubigans

Vertigo Gaming Inc.
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
I will say an Avenatti/Trump debate would be very entertaining. Also Trump would win the election in a landslide.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Trying to pretend that the GOP base and the dem base want the same type of President is hilariously misguided. Yes a boring policy wonk won't win but someone who has political experience and can get people excited is fine.
 
LukeOP

LukeOP

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,749
Ithil said:
That you are unable to discern a middle ground between "Ambulance chaser with a sharp tongue" and Clinton tells everyone all they need to know frankly.
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The fact you think Avenatti is a ambulance chaser tells everyone all they need to know.

Trump will shit on and destroy any other Democratic nominee. You guys aren't thinking clearly. Still stuck in 2010.
 

THE210

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,546
Ponn said:
Bullshit with that narrative. The usual moderates flipped a coin on who was going to vote on that. Even Republicans knew they were going to be in trouble the way they were going with that with no plan to replace it. If Manchin hadn't voted against it then there was 4 other Republicans that were afraid of their constituents that would have stepped in like Heller. That wasn't as controversial or hard of a vote because even Republican voters were suddenly realizing they would be screwed.

And I think there are a group of Dems that would throw marginalized groups under the bus because THATS WHATS FUCKING HAPPENING IN THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW!

"Well, it's a shame Ford was treated this way and all those women were protesting and arrested for it but look Manchin needs his seat for the important votes that are still calculated in the end."

Now I'm sure next up is the purity test accusations and I will gladly take it. Yes I draw the fucking line at voting yes to a rapist, repeat sexual assaulter to the Supreme Court. That damn conscience of mine keeping me from viewing that as just another political game.
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To add to this what's the point of holding out for his save the day vote when the reality is this justice will constrain any progress we make. He voted for the ACA well big deal as it will be destroyed shortly. I wish the democDemoc party would do the big things they claim they stand for I'm if they did they would conversation a lot of the red States. Instead we get middle right bills that dont make the car for Republicans to switch
 
Betty

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Avenatti wouldn't win, I mean neither would any of the other pre-offered candidates but out of all of them he'd still be one of the furthest down the list.
 
darz1

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,095
Ithil said:
And Trump has been the biggest disaster as president imaginable. What was your point again?
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The point is that disaster or not Trump made it to the presidency where a much more qualified candidate did not. What good is it to have a perfectly qualified dem candidate if they dont make it in?
 

Deleted member 2426

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
LukeOP said:
The fact you think Avenatti is a ambulance chaser tells everyone all they need to know.

Trump will shit on and destroy and other Democratic nominee. You guys aren't thinking clearly. Still stuck in 2010.
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I can wait for Avenatti to insult Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden to the cheers of the Democratic base...just like Trump right?
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
manchego obfuscator said:
Being to the left of the Democratic establishment on certain issues doesn't mean anything if you vehemently defend the establishment against anyone who might push it to the left every time the subject comes up.

But IIRC, you work as a consultant for the party or something along those lines, which explains a lot.
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I do not.

And the idea that I don't want more liberal polices because I understand the geopolitical makeup of West Virginia is...just plain silly.

There are states where you can get people more liberal than those in office now elected. Great, do that! West Virginia is not one of those states.

Somehow I'm a traitor to liberalism because I try to temper my efforts with reality? Because I value actual progress over theoretical righteousness?
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
Bernie Sanders was the president the US deserved and in a perfect world he would be in charge. Just vote for the next person like him.
 
Ponn

Ponn

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,171
Psychoward said:
"We need to fight the GOP and make sure they never gain power again" says forum poster willing to give up a limited seat position that went 65% R in 2014.
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"keep Dems in power that still vote for rapist sexual assaulters to the Supreme Court because this is all a sports game and the Republicans need to lose, fuck our morals and ethics!" says the self labeled Liberal Allies on forums.

Next up, we need to stop appealing to black communities because moderates don't like identity politics.
 
Ithil

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,392
darz1 said:
The point is that disaster or not Trump made it to the presidency where a much more qualified candidate did not. What good is it to have a perfectly qualified dem candidate if they dont make it in?
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Maybe you should remember the context of that win. He had all the help in the world, and Clinton had all the hindrance in the world.

The lesson to take from that is not "All qualified candidates will now lose forever and terrible candidates will win".
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Ponn said:
"keep Dems in power that still vote for rapist sexual assaulters to the Supreme Court because this is all a sports game and the Republicans need to lose, fuck our morals and ethics!" says the self labeled Liberal Allies on forums.

Next up, we need to stop appealing to black communities because moderates don't like identity politics.
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Again, name an important vote Manchin has swung to the GOP.

Your characterization is divorced from reality.
 
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