Jimpressions: Assassin's Creed Odyssey- It's Grindy, It's Greedy, It's Ubisoft!

Keldroc · Oct 5, 2018

If internet angry people didn't keep yelling about microtransactions in this game I would have completely forgotten there are microtransactions in the game. 30 hours in, well above the level requirements for the story missions on a regular basis, no grinding, just playing how I want to play. You don't need the boosts, the game is clearly not built around the assumption that you will have them. This is just noise and nonsense.

oni-link · Oct 5, 2018

I find it funny how those who wouldn't ever use them feel like they need to defend them in case these hypothetical rich players with limited time were to miss out, while those who assume they're in the game to make money and therefore may have influenced progression are GaMeRs rIsInG uP

Even if they don't impact the game that much, or if they can be ignored, or if the game is still great despite them, they still suck, and it's still weird to me that so many people are happy to defend corporations as if they were loved ones while at the same time mocking enthusiasts for actually caring about their hobby

Vicious17 · Oct 5, 2018

R_thanatos said:
like you could do in all creed games before origins ?

See, this part. The "before Origins" part is what a lot of you seem to be missing. Origins was essentially a "reboot". They're probably not going back to "pre Origins". Not in the foreseeable future.

You know easy you do if you want the bore Origins experience? You play those games.

Mani · Oct 5, 2018

So many people are defending the mtx when Ubisoft themselves seem to think of these activities as a waste of time.
If not, they wouldn't be calling this "pay to speed progress" phenomenon as a 'time savers tab'.

Like, they are literally saying that hey, if you are wasting your time grinding, come buy this "time Saver" package, literally implying that this paid package will help stop you wasting your precious time.

Phellps · Oct 5, 2018

Pata Hikari said:
So why is it in the game?

Because it's there to break it. It's a cheat.
Like Breath of the Wild doesn't rid its world of chests just because you can go out and buy amiibos to get chests w ith special loot. Because it's a secondary route of profit for people who are willing to pay for it. And it does not mean the game was designed around it, like Breath of the Wild was not designed around the existence of amiibos.
And many people are saying the game does not feel unfairly grindy like it's pushing you to buy the booster.

Mani said:
So many people are defending the mtx when Ubisoft themselves seem to think of these activities as a waste of time.
If not, they wouldn't be calling this "pay to speed progress" phenomenon as a 'time savers tab'.

Like, they are literally saying that hey, if you are wasting your time grinding, come buy this "time Saver" package, literally implying that this paid package will help stop you wasting your precious time.

Do devs who offer you the option to skip cutscenes also think they are a waste of your time despite all the work that went into them?

Pata Hikari · Oct 5, 2018

Manu said:
You still haven't replied to my previous post:

All you did was list ways game skip DLC makes the game worse.

Shelbyville Milhouse · Oct 5, 2018

RiceandBeans said:
The problem is that it's an Assassins Creed game, and people just want to find something to complain about.

I'm just really confused cause the alternative to this is either
A. scaling difficulty which everybody hated when Bethesda did it or
B. you are completely overleveled all the time if you do like to do sidequests

Doing sidequests has always been a necessity in pretty much any RPG out there, no?

Manu · Oct 5, 2018

oni-link said:
I find it funny how those who wouldn't ever use them feel like they need to defend them in case these hypothetical rich players with limited time were to miss out, while those who assume they're in the game to make money and therefore may have influenced progression are GaMeRs rIsInG uP

Even if they don't impact the game that much, or if they can be ignored, or if the game is still great despite them, they still suck, and it's still weird to me that so many people are happy to defend corporations as if they were loved ones while at the same time mocking enthusiasts for actually caring about their hobby

I can agree with this.

Pata Hikari said:
All you did was list ways game skip DLC makes the game worse.

And you haven't explained once HOW they make the game worse.

Atomic Playboy · Oct 5, 2018

Pata Hikari said:
"If you do all the side quests in the game then you don't have to grind!"

"But what if I don't want to do all the side quests"

"You don't have to grind!"

"But I'm at a level gate."

"Do some side quests!"

Based on you never playing the game and reading internet outrage. Compare that to someone who played the game:

Keldroc said:
If internet angry people didn't keep yelling about microtransactions in this game I would have completely forgotten there are microtransactions in the game. 30 hours in, well above the level requirements for the story missions on a regular basis, no grinding, just playing how I want to play. You don't need the boosts, the game is clearly not built around the assumption that you will have them. This is just noise and nonsense.

Whose opinion holds more weight here?

Deleted member 888 · Oct 5, 2018

Jim, that's a F2P mobile game!

...

BUT IT ISN'T!

Sou Da · Oct 5, 2018

Fantastapotamus said:
So, is the problem that there is a grind or that there is an XP boost?
Cause a lot of RPGs and big games require you to "grind". Though I never even considered doing sidequests as grinding, that's just part of the game for me. I doubt any normal person could just waltz through Divinity OS 2's story without doing sidequests and exploring the world, is that considered a grind?

I'm going to be mean here and say that the average side quest in Divinity has 100x the variety that any side quest in Odyssey could ever have, the game just isn't really built for it. Even a simple kill quest in DOS2 has more to do in ACO2

Crossing Eden · Oct 5, 2018

Pata Hikari said:
"If you do all the side quests in the game then you don't have to grind!"

"You don't have to do every side quest but the main campaign is interwoven with the other systems of the game, including side quests. In fact, the game's main quest line ends well before other side questlines in the game."

Pata Hikari said:
"But what if I don't want to do all the side quests"

"Who said you have to do all the side quests?"

Keldroc said:
If internet angry people didn't keep yelling about microtransactions in this game I would have completely forgotten there are microtransactions in the game.

This, literally every time though. Every single AC game.

R_thanatos · Oct 5, 2018

Claven said:
Sure, cause AC3 was exactly the same genre as Origins. I see your point, great argument there.

But that is the issue. Most rpg on the planet provides should provide you with enough ressources to progress the narrative , if you feel that you need sidequest to even have a chance , then there is problem of progression..
I shouldn't have this problem. It's not unheard to just want to play a story AND afterward to explore and see more of the world at your own pace. It is an open world game. Sure you can set up places that are at higher level to limit a player exploration but the next story "beat" or story "event" should be within reach. Why should i be forced to do some side missions ? aren't they side missions in the first place ? it doesn't matter if they are easy , quick tedious , hard or not. Why am i forced to do some stuff i might not want in order to progress on the main path . that design is bonkers.

Crossing Eden said:
"You don't have to do every side quest but the main campaign is interwoven with the other systems of the game, including side quests. In fact, the game's main quest line ends well before other side questlines in the game."

Other systems.. why am i forced to do something i might not like in an open world game to progress. The standard is once or twice and the rest of this stuff should always be optionnal.

Kylo Rey · Oct 5, 2018

I'm 99% sure that the Jim and Polygon topics exist to hate and destroy Assassin's Creed and Ubisoft.

Because those MTX single player exists since Black flag and NO ONE made a topic about it because each time the game is enough, you don't have to pay. Same for Odyssey.
But it's Assassin's Creed. HOW an AC game can be the better game since AC2? How? It's not possible!
Go see the main AC O topic, ask "is it true we need to pay MTX to lvl up?" and everybody will respond "no it's fine"

Stop those excuse, let us talk about the real subject:
There is hate about Assassin's Creed games.
Now we can begin the real stuff.

Goronmon · Oct 5, 2018

oni-link said:
Even if they don't impact the game that much, or if they can be ignored, or if the game is still great despite them, they still suck, and it's still weird to me that so many people are happy to defend corporations as if they were loved ones while at the same time mocking enthusiasts for actually caring about their hobby

For me, stuff like this sucks in the same way that stubbing my toe sucks. I'd rather it didn't happen, but I'm not going to destroy every piece of furniture I stub my toe on. Just like I'm not going to take a hardline stance or get outraged on things like microtransactions that aren't going anywhere and don't affect my ability to enjoy a game.

BadHand · Oct 5, 2018

Pata Hikari said:
"If you do all the side quests in the game then you don't have to grind!"

"But what if I don't want to do all the side quests"

"You don't have to grind!"

"But I'm at a level gate."

"Do some side quests!"

Just curious, what do you have against side quests when they add a lot of story and variety to the game? Do you just want your achievement and bail the fuck out?

Pata Hikari · Oct 5, 2018

Atomic Playboy said:
Based on you never playing the game and reading internet outrage. Compare that to someone who played the game:

Whose opinion holds more weight here?

Mine. Because I'm right. "Playing how I want to play" is meaningless. What if the way I want to play is to just go from story to story? Oh wait, I can't.

All I hear is that "if you do tons of repetitive Ubisoft 'content' then you don't have to grind!"

So how much is Ubisoft paying you to post here?

Crossing Eden · Oct 5, 2018

Pata Hikari said:
Mine. Because I'm right.

Pata Hikari said:
So how much is Ubisoft paying you to post here?

Phellps · Oct 5, 2018

R_thanatos said:
function scrollToId(selector, offset = 60) { window.scroll(0, document.querySelector(selector).offsetTop - offset); return false } But that is the issue. Most rpg on the planet provides should provide you with enough ressources to progress the narrative , if you feel that you need sidequest to even have a chance , then there is problem of progression..

So The Witcher 3 and Breath of the Wild both have a problem with progression?

janusff · Oct 5, 2018

nbnt said:
"It's there for people who don't have time to grind!"

.. The grind is there to push those people into buying these boosters. But yeah, sure, the game was totally not designed with these boosters in mind.

yuuuup.

Philly Cheesesteak · Oct 5, 2018

Pata Hikari said:
"If you do all the side quests in the game then you don't have to grind!"

"But what if I don't want to do all the side quests"

"You don't have to grind!"

"But I'm at a level gate."

"Do some side quests!"

I think this is the crux of the whole issue. People don't want to be forced to do side quests to progress through the game. Ubisoft knows this and to try to get some extra money, add in the XP booster for those who just want to get through the game and not have to grind out side quests and stuff. If that's the case, why are we defending Ubisoft? That's pretty scummy if you think about it.

Sou Da · Oct 5, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
So The Witcher 3 and Breath of the Wild both have a problem with progression?

You really don't want to use the game that lets you run from the tutorial straight to the final boss as your example.

Shelbyville Milhouse · Oct 5, 2018

Sou Da said:
I'm going to be mean here and say that the average side quest in Divinity has 100x the variety that any side quest in Odyssey could ever have, the game just isn't really built for it. Even a simple quest in DOS2 has more to do in ACO2

From what I've seen in videos that seems to be pretty accurate, but people don't seem to have a problem with the quality of the sidequests but rather that you have to play side content to level up.
If the criticism is "I need to level up but all the stuff in the game is boring" then that's a completely different story (which also would point to a much bigger issue with the game itself tbh), but it seems to be just "I need to level up".

Crossing Eden · Oct 5, 2018

"Guys you literally can just ignore side content if you pay $10."

Sou Da said:
You really don't want to use the game that lets you run from the tutorial straight to the final boss as your example.

You mean the final boss where you die in two non laser hits and have to fight literally every other main boss in the game before you fight the final boss and hope that the game's weapon durability system doesn't leave you with no choice but to let yourself die if the weapons in the castle aren't adequate enough?

Pata Hikari · Oct 5, 2018

BadHand said:
Just curious, what do you have against side quests when they add a lot of story and variety to the game? Do you just want your achievement and bail the fuck out?

I want side quests to be just that, side quests. Optional.

They are not optional in this game, and then Ubisoft gives you an option to pay money so you don't have to do as many of them.

Mr. Phellps said:
So The Witcher 3 and Breath of the Wild both have a problem with progression?

Lmao did you forget that you can literally go from Tutorial Area to Beating the game in BOTW?

NoWayOut · Oct 5, 2018

MisterBear said:
I wish the industry and the gaming community can get together and figure out what payment styles are allowed. I know publishers would like pay per minute and gamers want a pay a flat fee and be done, but there has to be a mutual middle ground somewhere.

No there's no middle ground. If you charge full price for a game, then keep the mtx out. You want to monetize mtx, then make a f2p game. You can't have the cake and eat it too. The fact that so many are actually justifying and defending this greedy business model boggling to me.

Cokie Bear · Oct 5, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
I'm 99% sure that the Jim and Polygon topics exist to hate and destroy Assassin's Creed and Ubisoft.

Because those MTX single player exists since Black flag and NO ONE made a topic about it

You should have at least done some googling before saying that. There were definitely threads on the old site about it, and Jim Sterling definitely talked about it.

Kylo Rey · Oct 5, 2018

janusff said:
yuuuup.

Those "boosters" exist since AC4.
I never heard you since 2013. But the Jackdaw and Ed Kenway had levelling too.

Deleted member 13328 · Oct 5, 2018

Frecklestein said:
Yeah, this wouldn't be an issue with me because I tend to naturally overlevel because I like to get everything done anyways :s. But I can see how this is an issue for fans of this franchise in particular

Games like AC Origins, and other open world games are more or less an exploration simulation for me, I love running around ticking of boxes, something is wrong with me.

Kylo Rey · Oct 5, 2018

Gravy Boat said:
You should have at least done some googling before saying that. There were definitely threads on the old site about it, and Jim Sterling definitely talked about it.

Yeah about that. Did you play Odyssey? Or those games?
Because i NEVER had that gap that made me think "i need those boosters".

NEVER.

Pata Hikari · Oct 5, 2018

NoWayOut said:
No there's no middle ground. If you charge full price for a game, then keep the mtx out. You want to monetize mtx, then make a f2p game. You can't have the cake and eat it too. The fact that so many are actually justifying and defending this greedy business model boggling to me.

This. If you're charging 60+ dollars for a game there should be no microtransactions, no gacha, no exp "boosters", nothing like that.

Goronmon · Oct 5, 2018

NoWayOut said:
No there's no middle ground. If you charge full price for a game, then keep the mtx out. You want to monetize mtx, then make a f2p game. You can't have the cake and eat it too. The fact that so many are actually justifying and defending this greedy business model boggling to me.

Exactly. Ubisoft should just everyone $120 straight up and this whole issue would be solved.

Crossing Eden · Oct 5, 2018

janusff said:
yuuuup.

Did the following games make you buy boosters:
AC4---->AC:Origins

NoWayOut said:
No there's no middle ground. If you charge full price for a game, then keep the mtx out.

Says who?

Kaeden · Oct 5, 2018

Claven said:
The plot twist here is that there's no "grind issue". Just idiots who want to speed through the main story while ignoring the rest of the game for some strange reason.

I think that the fact that this specific game is an "AC" game, people cannot wrap their heads around the idea that it may very well be different from the past core games. No matter what they read, they'll feel that they should be able to stick to just the main story and level appropriately. And that's simply not the case. Just like Witcher 3, side quests are pretty much a necessity to fill in the level gaps the main campaign has. But these core AC players will never see this I feel.

Deleted member 13101 · Oct 5, 2018

There is no grind. For some objectives, you only need to complete one out of three sub-quests to qualify to complete the objective. (And they are sub-quests, not sidequests) You can bypass other sub-quests if you want to make some of the main quests more difficult than the default of your chosen difficulty setting, even.

Now I'm going to go back to enjoying the game without needing to hear about or open the helix credit store a single time. I've heard far more about helix credits or mtx (and since when is $10 a microtransaction?) in this thread than I ever will while inside the game world.

Cokie Bear · Oct 5, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
Yeah about that. Did you play Odyssey? Or those games?
Because i NEVER had that gap that made me think "i need those boosters".

NEVER.

What's that got to do with my post or the post I was responding to?

Kylo Rey · Oct 5, 2018

Goronmon said:
Exactly. Ubisoft should just everyone $120 straight up and this whole issue would be solved.

???
Dude, i never had to pay those boosters! WTF?

Goronmon · Oct 5, 2018

Pata Hikari said:
This. If you're charging 60+ dollars for a game there should be no microtransactions, no gacha, no exp "boosters", nothing like that.

So, a $59 game is allowed to have microtransactions? What about $40? $30? $10? Why is $60 the cutoff, why not $70 or $100?

Akita One · Oct 5, 2018

As a person with no skin in the game, looking at all the comments from people in this thread and others that have actually played Odyssey...it seems like no one is saying that the grind is unfair or made them seek to buy an MTX. No one person, actually.

It's also a bit suspect that people are saying Jim liked last year's AC, which seems to have had the same MTX. If they haven't changed or extended the grind to make you want to buy more MTX then I don't see a problem with it.

R_thanatos · Oct 5, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
So The Witcher 3 and Breath of the Wild both have a problem with progression?

You are putting words in my mouth that i never said.

BakedTanooki · Oct 5, 2018

Of course, there is no need for defending the crappy micro transaction insanity. We all know why they exist.

But I can't trust people when it comes to the "grind". I have seen many people here and on the old forum, who don't want to put any effort into playing a game, but still wanting instant rewards and stuff, lol.

What some people describe as grindy is often laughable, compared to what we grinded in some good old rpgs.

Guess I will check it out by myself. I only played the first game on Xbox 360 and never really liked Assassins Creed and most of the other Ubi Soft games, with similar world and gameplay structure. I heard the series changed a lot with origins and the new game further improves the new way of Assassins Creed, so I thought I give it a chance.

Phellps · Oct 5, 2018

Sou Da said:
You really don't want to use the game that lets you run from the tutorial straight to the final boss as your example.

And how easy is that final boss if you do?

None of the quests in Origins and Odyssey demand you to be a certain level to play them, you can certainly do them as you please, it's just going to be a lot harder if you don't meet the level requirement. Just like every RPG without level-scaling.

R_thanatos said:
You are putting words in my mouth that i never said.

I'm not, I'm asking if you think they have a problem with progression, considering both of them are level and gear-gated like Origins and Odyssey.

oni-link · Oct 5, 2018

Goronmon said:
For me, stuff like this sucks in the same way that stubbing my toe sucks. I'd rather it didn't happen, but I'm not going to destroy every piece of furniture I stub my toe on. Just like I'm not going to take a hardline stance or get outraged on things like microtransactions that aren't going anywhere and don't affect my ability to enjoy a game.

Yeah my stance is they suck, but it's not going to stop me getting the game

I mean, I'm gonna wait for a discount, but still, game looks fun to me

I don't see why people can't say, yeah, they're suck, but monitisating is a difficult issue to get right. I don't get why so many people have to rush in to defend a corporations honour

No one here knows if they tweaked progression in a manner that will encourage the most amount of people possible to buy boosters, but it would make sense that it would be a factor since you know, they're in the game

Anyone saying otherwise is being disingenuous, and the argument of "it's still good and you don't need to grind" is another point from the one being argued. It might still be good, but they're still in the game to be sold and as they have control of the game that will be a factor in it's design. If they sell no boosters at all in week 1, someone is going to get dragged into an office and screamed at

Santar · Oct 5, 2018

Jeebus folks, the time saver is just like a cheat! Is that so hard to understand?
It's for the same people who put on god mode, all weapons and skipped to the last episode of Doom just because they wanted to see the final boss and beat the game.
It's like buying a all car unlocker for a need for speed game for people who just want to race cars. It's for people who don't care to or have time to actually play through the entire game.

It's basically for the guy who reads the wikipedia synopsis of a movie instead of watching it just because they're curious enough to find out what happens but not enough to actually watch the movie.

As several posters have said the actual progression without the time saver is the same as in Origins.
If people want to buy a cheat code to skip large parts of a game they bought let them, who cares.

Cokie Bear · Oct 5, 2018

Santar said:
Jeebus, the time saver is just like a cheat!
It's for the same people who put on god mode, all weapons and skipped to the last episode of Doom just because they wanted to see the final boss and beat the game.
It's like buying a all car unlocker for a need for speed game for people who just want to race cars. It's for people who don't care to or have time to actually play through the entire game.

It's basically for the guy who reads the wikipedia synopsis of a movie instead of watching it just because they're curious enough to find out what happens but not enough to actually watch the movie.

As several posters have said the actual progression without the time saver is the same as in Origins.
If people want to buy a cheat code to skip large parts of a game they bought let them, who cares.

If it was just a cheat code nobody would care. The charging for it part is the issue.

Deleted member 29660 · Oct 5, 2018

It's beyond depressing that this is the norm and people defend it now. It's exploration for exploration sakes where there is no need but gives the company extra money at the expense of the game while demanding you pay a large up front cost at the same time.

Kylo Rey · Oct 5, 2018

Gravy Boat said:
What's that got to do with my post or the post I was responding to?

My point is that an AC game have very good reviews. Not good. Very good.
And that...it's not right for many.
Because it's AC. It has to be a BAD GAME. A BAD LICENCE.
So Jim and Polygon create a false dementia about MTX just because there is a menu in the shop to buy Boosters...even if you don't need them to finish the game. But THERE IS A MENU!! "THIS is the angle attack i will use to destroy AC this year!"

And many those didn't played Odyssey are saying here "ubi is crap, AC is bad. Bring me back Ezio and Jesper Kyd. Well time to wait for RDR2"

It's the same song each year...

chandoog · Oct 5, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Says who?

A lot of people in this very thread ..

saenima · Oct 5, 2018

Since #gamersriseup is on the up and up for shit meme of this finantial quarter, i think we need a zesty alternative in the battle for the soul of the AAA corporate product. I'm personally fond of #shillsbendover but i'm open to some hard suggestions.

lowhighkang_LHK · Oct 5, 2018

Francesco said:
Clickbait was and clickbait remains.
Levelling feels natural, encourages to play sidequests and increase exploration. Like any RPG should try to achieve.

Anility progression is completely fine, I'm 15 hours in and half of my skill tree is done.
I unlocked the skills I wanted immediately after 30 minutes.

It's an RPG, it's massive, wtf do you expect?

Its perception vs reality. The reality is it could be a non issue, but its the perception thats irking some people.

What I want to know is why does Red Dead Redemption 2 get a free pass?

Jimpressions: Assassin's Creed Odyssey- It's Grindy, It's Greedy, It's Ubisoft!

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