Turn 10 overhauling Forza Motorsport 7

I'll never know. I uninstalled Forza 7 recently while managing hard drive space, then I went to reinstall it and it downloads forever, never finishes. I posted on the official forums tech support page about this, saw others had the same issue. Zero support was given. Just another example of the garbage Win10 Store in action.

So Forza 8 in 2020 just in time for Xbox Two. I wonder if they'll also bump Forza Horizon to give it another year in development.

Leflus said:

Sure, and Playground has in turn helped Turn10 with Forza Motorsport. Each studio has their main focus, though.

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Sorry but I don't think you understand. Sure PG shares some things back with T10 but T10 owns all engine support which allows PG to focus on innovative gameplay.

PG does not loan multiple engineers and artists to T10 the way T10 has done with PG. PG does not contribute Art direction, and production support the way T10 has with Horizon.

PG does not optimize Motorsport the way T10 helps optimize Horizon.

The acquisition is good as it should free up T10 resources who have assisted on the publishing side and allow PG more freedom to fully own direction and ramp up on technical gaps T10 has helped fill over the years.

Source: worked at t10

matimeo said:

Sorry but I don't think you understand. Sure PG shares some things back with T10 but T10 owns all engine support which allows PG to focus on innovative gameplay.

PG does not loan multiple engineers and artists to T10 the way T10 has done with PG. PG does not contribute Art direction, and production support the way T10 has with Horizon.

PG does not optimize Motorsport the way T10 helps optimize Horizon.

The acquisition is good as it should free up T10 resources who have assisted on the publishing side and allow PG more freedom to fully own direction and ramp up on technical gaps T10 has helped fill over the years.

Source: worked at t10

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T10 is so underrated for what they've contributed to the Horizon games.

I agree, for a game that has "motorsport" in its name, it actually does very little in simulating real life motorsport.

xrnzaaas said:

So Forza 8 in 2020 just in time for Xbox Two. I wonder if they'll also bump Forza Horizon to give it another year in development.

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Yup. Everyone wins.


Another Forza launch game and horizon gets a 3 year cycle to prep for the jump. And maybe extra time while some more people work in fable

matimeo said:

Sorry but I don't think you understand. Sure PG shares some things back with T10 but T10 owns all engine support which allows PG to focus on innovative gameplay.

PG does not loan multiple engineers and artists to T10 the way T10 has done with PG. PG does not contribute Art direction, and production support the way T10 has with Horizon.

PG does not optimize Motorsport the way T10 helps optimize Horizon.

The acquisition is good as it should free up T10 resources who have assisted on the publishing side and allow PG more freedom to fully own direction and ramp up on technical gaps T10 has helped fill over the years.

Source: worked at t10

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Thank you for the clarification. It wasn't my intention to make it seem like Turn10 and Playground have made equal contributions. I was well aware of the fact that it's T10's engine.

I don't even know why the discussion turned into this. I just wanted to point out the difference between Horizon and Motorsport and that lumping them together as simply "Forza" is doing both series a disservice.

I have to think most of Turn 10 does spend most of their time working on Horizon because what do they actually do in 2 years in comparison? A couple of new tracks do not take 2 years. Polyphony of all people seems to be able to make one a month.

Leflus said:

Thank you for the clarification. It wasn't my intention to make it seem like Turn10 and Playground have made equal contributions. I was well aware of the fact that it's T10's engine.

I don't even know why the discussion turned into this. I just wanted to point out the difference between Horizon and Motorsport and that lumping them together as simply "Forza" is doing both series a disservice.

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I was just providing clarity on what many including myself wondered about. I had always heard many considered Forza 4 to be peak for the series especially with how many gameplay features were handled.

What I learned was it kind of made sense as T10 leaned in and made a great partnership with PG to ensure Horizon could take off and allowing PG to work to their strengths. Over time both studios have learned from each other and shared when it made sense.

I was pretty amazed myself to see the support provided by T10 but MS is known for this as a publisher. At the same time it was easy to see that FM didn't have as long of a dev cycle as it appears because of split resourcing.

T10 is also such a reliable studio for shipping good products that they are often looked to for providing hardware launch experiences and paving the way for things like PC support. These things are part of what makes the studio so special but also has potentially taken some focus off pushing FM a bit.

So the FM team getting time to learn and improve their product is a much needed break and will allow the franchise room to grow. While PG also can now grow not just with Horizon but into other things as well.

It's good news all around.

Just give me more achievements so I don't need to "Start Last and Finish First Online" for Forza Rewards.

Leflus said:

I think you're on the money with Forza Motorsport, but Forza Horizon still manages to feel fresh to me.

With that said.. The more entries the FH series gets, the chance of fatigue grows bigger. So I can definitely see the argument in favor of being proactive with the series before it looses its edge.

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I have all four FH games on my Xbox One right now and FH4 feels exactly like three in a new environment, but with cosmetics to clog up the wheelspins and the weird vehicle category segregation from FM7. It feels like they didn't know what to do with a sequel to a great game and tried to make it more like Fortnite/Overwatch. It's not enough of an improvement/difference for me to actually buy the game.

TheGhost said:

That would suck because I rather the more arcades horizon start off next gen instead of serious racing sim I'll stay away from.

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On the plus side, now we get a Horizon game with an extra year of work, which considering what they've already been able to do should be amazing.

ElBoxyBrown said:

Playground is gonna be busy with another IP.

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Playground has more than enough staff to handle both. Add in mixed support from T10 and they'll have no issue developing both FH and Fable simultaneously.

Hopefully they are going to increase the development time going forward.

this is good if they listened to criticism. Plus it would probably mean no FM8 next year when we dont need a 4th entry this generation.

I loved Forza for over a decade, but fell off FM7 very fast with series burnout and being tired of the same issues. The multiplayer is a rammer shit show and career is the same every year with bad AI. Shit like pretty 4k rain storms coming up doesnt really matter to me when tires are irrelevant in Forza. Gran Turismo Sport is just much better at controlling online bullshit and at capturing actual motorsport strategy elements like pit stops choices or qualifying.

The Forza Vista mode dropped jaws in Forza 4, as did the audio and all the little details like glowing break pads and tunnel vision effect when you're hauling ass.

The game was untouchable frankly.

For me GT Sport is this gens Forza 4 because of the lighting, Scapes, AI and little details like gear shift animations with moving gear knobs.

I'm confident Turn 10 can fire back given enough time. Car porn is more than just the size of your catalog and they know that.

cakely said:

Interesting. I'm not sure why they're doing this though, why not just wait for Forza 8? There's no indication that the Forza series is "taking a break" next year, they've been grinding these games out every other year since 2005, why stop now?

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Thats not truth, yearly Forzas started in 2011

Ingueferroque said:

Will this come to Game Pass?

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Can it, though? We've already seen the issue with car licensing meaning they've pulled FH2 from distribution, so I wonder if changing the release type so drastically will be outside any licensing agreements.

But yeah, this does feel like an MCC situation kinda: fix it up then put it on Game Pass.

Yes, more Motorsport in Forza Motorsport

matimeo said:

Sorry but I don't think you understand. Sure PG shares some things back with T10 but T10 owns all engine support which allows PG to focus on innovative gameplay.

PG does not loan multiple engineers and artists to T10 the way T10 has done with PG. PG does not contribute Art direction, and production support the way T10 has with Horizon.

PG does not optimize Motorsport the way T10 helps optimize Horizon.

The acquisition is good as it should free up T10 resources who have assisted on the publishing side and allow PG more freedom to fully own direction and ramp up on technical gaps T10 has helped fill over the years.

Source: worked at t10

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Very interesting, thanks for sharing. May I ask, do you think after so many years learning from T10, Playground might be ready to fly alone and become the ones who coach other studios? Does T10 share resources with other studios as well?

Make FM8 launch game for Xbox Infinity!

I won't lie - once T10 fix FM7's multiplayer, I'll miss the carnage a little.

Captain of Outer Space said:

I have all four FH games on my Xbox One right now and FH4 feels exactly like three in a new environment, but with cosmetics to clog up the wheelspins and the weird vehicle category segregation from FM7. It feels like they didn't know what to do with a sequel to a great game and tried to make it more like Fortnite/Overwatch. It's not enough of an improvement/difference for me to actually buy the game.

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That's you, though, I would definitely not say that FH4 feels like FH3 in a new environment. Even ignoring all the other differences (and there are many), the races seem to be better designed, and the terrain is much more interesting to drive on, with more elevation changes, and a city area very different from Surfer's Paradise (which I thought was the blandest city in the series).

rokkerkory said:

Make FM8 launch game for Xbox Infinity!

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I think that will probably be the case.

Mr. Pointy said:

I won't lie - once T10 fix FM7's multiplayer, I'll miss the carnage a little.

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Wow, it's almost mesmerizing watching a classy player dodging a bunch of rubes out to shunt each other into walls and traverse corners through impact bouncing. The way he anticipates and reacts to their bullshit is like Neo perfectly avoiding bullets.

Forza 7 online looks like zero fun if this is the norm.

Mr. Pointy said:

I won't lie - once T10 fix FM7's multiplayer, I'll miss the carnage a little.

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You mean you'll miss watching it... right? Right?

Looking forward to the FFB updates, can't wait to try them out. TylerDurden4321 Fz forces incoming :)

No Depth said:

Forza 7 online looks like zero fun if this is the norm.

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It is the norm unfortunately. Most of the players who want to actually race online left for other games because they've done nothing about the rammers for so long. For the most part the only people left playing on a regular basis are the rammers and noobs who don't know any better.

The collision physics overhaul and safety rating system are long overdue.

Ingueferroque said:

Will this come to Game Pass?

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I thought the reason FH4 is the first and only Forza game on Game Pass is the licensing agreement for the music in games. They apparently would have to renegotiate licensing for songs to offer them on GP. At least that's a reason that makes sense to me, licensing music is all kinds of evil nightmare.

Roy said:

I can see myself buying an Xbox just for this if they do something about the wreckfests that online races have and have something as compelling as GT Sport's FIA championships. GT Sport was good for a while but they've really gone backwards in the last few updates with in regards to clean, proper racing.

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i don't own an Xbox and haven't played a forza motorsport game - so, forgive me if i'm wrong - but i've been watching this guy's youtube channel recently and it completely baffles me that forza doesn't seem to penalise ramming and crashing. shitty racers usually get away with slamming others off of the track whilst clean and respectable racers suffer. i've recently been getting into driveclub and - despite it being more arcadey than forza - even that penalises heavy collisions to disincentivise playing the game like burnout. it's just really odd to me that a simulator doesn't do anything about this, especially in online lobbies.

edit: oh haha, someone's posted one of super gt's vids that highlight this issue in this thread

Regis said:

Thats not truth, yearly Forzas started in 2011

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"Every other year"

He was talking about Forza Motorsport. That series has been biannual since its inception.

GHG said:

Looking forward to the FFB updates, can't wait to try them out. TylerDurden4321 Fz forces incoming :)

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In a patch a few months ago, Turn 10 enabled Telemetry output on the PC version (they probably had the option in the game before for the motion rig they use during E3, just not accessible for consumers), since then Furnace had tried the game using FFB baked from Telemetry Output using SimCommander and he said, there was no real difference to the normal FFB.

Fz scales Fy linearly if you don't look at the tire load sensitivity and Fy is put out in the telemetry in form of lateral Gs and in the end it's Fy that dictates the self-aligning moment, so if the FFB stayed the same... - after thinking about it some more - I'm not so sure that the problem really is their Fz scaling for FFB and it's not something more fundamental.

I too was hyped at the news that they are reworking the FFB even for the current title so "late" in the lifespan, but realistically, what they're talking about might be just the implementation of automatic DoR for each car (meaning F1 car = ~420°, every day road car = ~900° ). They also said this was coming at the time of release, but it never came.

Theecliff said:

i don't own an Xbox and haven't played a forza motorsport game - so, forgive me if i'm wrong - but i've been watching this guy's youtube channel recently and it completely baffles me that forza doesn't seem to penalise ramming and crashing. shitty racers usually get away with slamming others off of the track whilst clean and respectable racers suffer. i've recently been getting into driveclub and - despite it being more arcadey than forza - even that penalises heavy collisions to disincentivise playing the game like burnout. it's just really odd to me that a simulator doesn't do anything about this, especially in online lobbies.

edit: oh haha, someone's posted one of super gt's vids that highlight this issue in this thread

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T10 has tried half assed things on top of idiotic design choices that make the online racing worse.

They put tire walls all over the place to stop corner cutting, but they suck cars in and cause huge crashes. These explode individual tires all over the track which have their own physics and weight and can cause you to crash. Same with the stupid 10 ton advertisment banners. They added an automatic car slowdown for wall riding, which also just causes crashes at places like Rio. They refuse to just ghost lapped cars. The rain puddles are fucking dumb for online lobbies.

Even without penalties, everything they've done for online lobbies has just made it worse since the 360 or even Forza 5. Then they completely buried leaderboards for FM7. Long time Forza YouTubers started playing more Project Cars or Gran Turismo after FM7. I haven't touched it in a long time, but wish they address all of this.

Afro said:

Does this run as well as Horizon 4? Or does it suffer from micro stutter issues like Horizon 3 and the Forza Apex demo?

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It runs significantly better on PC then Horizon 3. Apex final release ran great for me. Horizon 3 was the game that was a mess on PC for me.

I wonder if it means no Forza in 2019.. gearing up for next generation?

Shit that sounds awesome. I really want this to come to GamePass before the end of the year.

TimFL said:

I thought the reason FH4 is the first and only Forza game on Game Pass is the licensing agreement for the music in games. They apparently would have to renegotiate licensing for songs to offer them on GP. At least that's a reason that makes sense to me, licensing music is all kinds of evil nightmare.

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This makes sense, but I feel like considering MS position and their seeming success so far with Game Pass they might be incentivized to do the work.

I think it'd make more sense for MS to get Forza 8 on Game Pass day 1 than try to renegotiate all the licensing to get FM7 on there. It's not just music, but car brands and presumably all the other brands floating about for track billboards, racing suits and helmets.

Baconmonk said:

This makes sense, but I feel like considering MS position and their seeming success so far with Game Pass they might be incentivized to do the work.

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This sentiment has to stop, people only set themselves up for disappointment.
Microsoft is a company trying to make a profit after all, throwing money at things just cause it'd be a cool thing for fans or costumers even though it's a bad business decision is not something you normally do.

Like I've heard stuff such as "incredibly weak of MS not to money hat Telltale games cause they have infinite money". Not how it works.

GHG said:

Looking forward to the FFB updates, can't wait to try them out. TylerDurden4321 Fz forces incoming :)

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Nope, just tried it. Porsche 919 at maximum downforce... no difference in the FFB going into a corner between driving at 30mph and 180mph.
There is unauthentic road noise now, yay. And all new menu icons!