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The Legend of Heroes: Sen no Kiseki IV |Import OT| Even Utawarerumono is here!
- Thread starter Deleted member 26768
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I mean, these bonding events are decent if you view them in a vacuum. Individually, they can range from sleep-inducing to interesting; at least based on the 3 sets of events I've seen so far. The only problem is most of the girl events have an underlying "I love Rean" nuance (not even the platonic kind, either) to them, and that's just off-putting. The guys, as you would expect, are just the guys hanging out.
Yes?
Don't let a single game from a single company inform your opinion of Japan.
There are better ways to voice your concerns over Falcom's direction with Sen IV.
What are they?
It's an honest question that's been on my mind. It's not really "informed" by Sen no Kiseki, but the game has me thinking about how i would even talk about some elements of the game without using "性差別," which doesn't quite seem to cover all instances of it. Maybe I'm wrong.
Anyone know if you have free access to the cities later on? There's a lot of things that are a part of a trading set that I can't buy without a ton of grinding and if I can just come back and get them later I'd prefer to do that.
Feels weird playing a Kiseki game without a money trick(unless there's one I'm unaware of)
Feels weird playing a Kiseki game without a money trick(unless there's one I'm unaware of)
I don't understand a lick of Japanese, so I wouldn't know
But I would think a language with more than 5x as many words as the english language (if not way more) would have words that would properly convey sexism. Considering feminism is absolutely a thing over there, it's pretty much a given.
There's also 女性差別 and 男性差別 which are more targeted as you'd expect.
CS3 is definitely the better game at this point (about 60-70% of the way through I think). CS4 has really jarring pacing and is probably the most back-loaded game in the series in terms of meaningful plot advancement.
What do you mean by that? That there is too much plot advancement, or too much padding? If the latter, then shoot, that would be like CS2 all over again.
The first half appears to be running errands to achieve x goal. The pacing of these chapters is a little more brisk than your average kiseki game, and doesn't adhere to a strict kiseki formula. But twenty something hours into the game, not much has actually happened. I'm not terribly upset by it, but i wasn't terribly upset by Sen II in that regard.
I am left wondering how substantial the latter half really is though.
I am left wondering how substantial the latter half really is though.
Game's pretty similar to CS2 structurally-wise so far, for better or worse.
I personally believe II does it better overall. Sen IV more or less skips straight to the part people don't seem to like about II.
Visiting the shrines and collecting the Zemuria stones, but less dungeon focused (there are actually optional dungeons).
God I'm so jealous, I just want a loc announcement of III for the west.
Anyway, can anyone answer this:
Does it take long for the Liberl crew to join your party and do they stay until the end or go away after a while? Thanks.
Anyway, can anyone answer this:
Does it take long for the Liberl crew to join your party and do they stay until the end or go away after a while? Thanks.
On the comments about the pacing: welp, I hope falcom goes back to a structure similar to Sky / zero / ao, for the next game. While I liked CS2, its weird to think a big chunk was dedicated to building a mech sword. In paper it sounds cool but it was meh in practice.
As of now, they have yet to join the party for more than a very brief period and have had very little screen time outside of that either. The game remains focused on new and old Class VII first and foremost.
Thanks. That's disappointing.
I wonder if it's like CS2 where
in the end they give you a dungeon with all characters available.
I should hope that's not all they do. Hated how that game's answer was
to just say, "Hey, we know you wanted to use all of these characters more often throughout the story, but here's this dungeon that doesn't really matter that we've tacked on at the very end where you can go nuts".
The second half seems to be structured exactly the same way as CS2's second half at this point.
Aww, CSII was the game I liked the least in the series. It really didn't work for me... Let's hope it will work better this time.
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I think I like CS3 better than CS4. I wasn't very fond of CS2 so it's been, well, too little development happening during the first half. The last part of CS4 is strong though, but I still think CS3 was better in every way. There's just way too many characters and The bond system is perhaps taking a step back compared to CS3 due to that and the "harem" thingie that CS3 managed to avoid.
Though I have to say I like CS1 better than CS2 so that has definitely formed my opinion of CS4.
Though I have to say I like CS1 better than CS2 so that has definitely formed my opinion of CS4.
I entirely agree. CS3 felt like a much more cohesive and smoothly-paced game.
I can entirely understand how they originally planned to wrap things up with CS3 - CS4 could be a significantly shorter game if they cut some of the padding, and it already seems like it'll be half CS3's length or less.
CS3 was pretty much the setup for the harem trash in CS4, so it deserves its fair share of blame as well.
It feels like they blatantly changed gears after Sen 3 though. I'm pretty sure some of the fans loudly complained about the pared back relationship mechanics (going by some of the reviews on AmazonJP anyway).
It's possible they went full scumbag to appeal to as many fans as possible.
The thing about Sen III is
I just finished Sen IV's "Part I," and I don't know. This is partly influenced by personal inability to deal with scenes in which I think characters look absolutely ridiculous, but it just felt messy to me. The interactions between certain groups of characters didn't feel right. The scenario didn't develop in an interesting or exciting way. And the way it transitioned back to base feels off as well. I'm also increasingly suspicious that the series is slowly transitioning to the future where all of the major, important characters are 12 to 15 year old girls.
I don't feel like the Ouroboros interactions really felt meaningful. The story definitely moves "forward," because it has characters to introduce, develop, etc etc. And I was about to make a post about how Sen III "feels" a lot more like the final chapter in an arc, because it's eventful in a way that Sen IV is not.
But that's just the thing. Someone feel free to tell me if I'm wrong and why, but if I recall, a lot of the interactions with Ouroboros were justified by "we wanted to test you" or something like that around the time the party gets to the Juno Fortress. On one hand, it gives characters something to do, and certainly a lot of things are "happening." I like the way that Yuuna and Kurt interact with these events. Even Altina, who I found incredibly creepy in Sen II (costume), was a decent character in III and had good interactions with the other characters. But if I'm to look back at Sen III as a game that had its final chapter ripped from it to make Sen IV, why did most of anything to do with Ouroboros need to happen to move larger plot forward? What was accomplished by Ouroboros?* Falcom can be great with building up a plot at the time, revealing the pieces on the board one at a time, then executing a satisfying final chapter that brings them altogether. Ao did this very well. But other times, Falcom seems to struggle to find meaningful interactions, before some information blowout, like the church in Sen III, and a final quarter or so where things really start moving.
*This is a broader problem with Ouroboros, including Ao. The 幻焔計画 and 幻焔計画の奪還 seem increasingly like nonsense, but maybe I'm not paying attention or forgetting xyz.
But that's just the thing. Someone feel free to tell me if I'm wrong and why, but if I recall, a lot of the interactions with Ouroboros were justified by "we wanted to test you" or something like that around the time the party gets to the Juno Fortress. On one hand, it gives characters something to do, and certainly a lot of things are "happening." I like the way that Yuuna and Kurt interact with these events. Even Altina, who I found incredibly creepy in Sen II (costume), was a decent character in III and had good interactions with the other characters. But if I'm to look back at Sen III as a game that had its final chapter ripped from it to make Sen IV, why did most of anything to do with Ouroboros need to happen to move larger plot forward? What was accomplished by Ouroboros?* Falcom can be great with building up a plot at the time, revealing the pieces on the board one at a time, then executing a satisfying final chapter that brings them altogether. Ao did this very well. But other times, Falcom seems to struggle to find meaningful interactions, before some information blowout, like the church in Sen III, and a final quarter or so where things really start moving.
*This is a broader problem with Ouroboros, including Ao. The 幻焔計画 and 幻焔計画の奪還 seem increasingly like nonsense, but maybe I'm not paying attention or forgetting xyz.
I just finished Sen IV's "Part I," and I don't know. This is partly influenced by personal inability to deal with scenes in which I think characters look absolutely ridiculous, but it just felt messy to me. The interactions between certain groups of characters didn't feel right. The scenario didn't develop in an interesting or exciting way. And the way it transitioned back to base feels off as well. I'm also increasingly suspicious that the series is slowly transitioning to the future where all of the major, important characters are 12 to 15 year old girls.
Lloyd and Estelle can step aside and do their own thing, Renne and Keya (not sure how to romanize her name) are the major players now.
I kinda doubt that perspective. At the end of the day, this game came a year after Sen 3, so this was another product of a game intended to be one game - but split into two similar to Sen 2.
My cynical view was that Falcom just had no clear plan in terms of actually advancing ( or didn't want to ) romantic relationship in a way that relates to the core story of Rean, so they pared it back with Sen 3 because it'll be fully explored in Sen 4.
The bond events that seem story-relevant in Sen 4, even as they are - felt clearly tailored to Rean individually, so it's not something I see as 'oh, they took this out of story and made it a bond event.'
It's good, and definitely better than Sen 3's, but it's kind of weirdly unbalanced. For instance, as of where I am now (about 1/3 of the way through act 2) there have been two new dungeon themes and twelve new battle themes.
Speaking of which...
Maybe I write in a review when I buy the game down the road praising the non-mechanics driven romantic arcs. Though it wasn't too in-depth, I liked what was there for Shirley x Cedric.
A sub-event will trigger if your entire harem (Alisa, Fie, Ema, Laura, and Sara) is in your party at the hot spring (this event also includes two other female characters that aren't listed here). Falcom going all in. All I can say is yikes.
Also, there's a main sub-quest you can do that is essentially just an excuse to get any character naked with Rean in the hot spring (this includes the available Crossbell and Sky members with you at the time). Falcom going full scumbag.
Also, there's a main sub-quest you can do that is essentially just an excuse to get any character naked with Rean in the hot spring (this includes the available Crossbell and Sky members with you at the time). Falcom going full scumbag.
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You don't have to choose a girl at the end supposedly, and you can technically just ignore all the bonding events that have the heart mark (which is like only a few, lol). But you can't really avoid the harem per-say, because every girl canonically and romantically loves Rean, anyway.
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Falcom really can't commit to deaths.
Yeah, it's pretty clear that the harem aspect has negatively affected the characters in that way, but at least i can keep it limited to "Rean has options," which is what i would normally assume was the intent....
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Finished the first two days of Act 3, and this seems... awfully similar in structure to Ao's climax as you fight boss after boss going up the tree, but in a bad way. The pacing was pretty bad in act 2, and it's pretty much another repeat of going after single bosses for the story to move forward in act 3 so far. Sucks because it started off kind of amazing with some reveals. I'm actually feeling some fatigue with how repetitive the structure has been so far; not including the amazing end of act 2 and beginning of act 3.
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Sen 3/4 really did fuck up the characterization of certain characters hard. Vague spoiler up til 8/21
Claire continues to be pure fucking trash doubling down on trump supporter level stupidity "cause duty" we're not that far off anymore from her basically just committing genocide in the name of duty and actively fight against the guys who are without a question on the right side of history on this one. Too bad Falcom won't let us kill her cause she doesn't deserve anything else and even if Sen 4 ends strongly I'm already going to be bitter about the inevitable happy end she's probably going to get.
The game doesn't even have the decency to pretend that part of her motivations are believing that whatever Osborne is trying to accomplish is necessary no matter the sacrifice.
Lechter turns out to have the mental strength of a baby. His declaration of baring his fangs at Osborne during sora 3rd is in retrospect absolutely laughable. Both of these "geniuses" turned out to be dumber than Gilbert.
Rufus is the last hope even if he remains as an antagonist throughout to remain with any kind of integrity.
The game doesn't even have the decency to pretend that part of her motivations are believing that whatever Osborne is trying to accomplish is necessary no matter the sacrifice.
Lechter turns out to have the mental strength of a baby. His declaration of baring his fangs at Osborne during sora 3rd is in retrospect absolutely laughable. Both of these "geniuses" turned out to be dumber than Gilbert.
Rufus is the last hope even if he remains as an antagonist throughout to remain with any kind of integrity.
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Are there English translation patches for Zero and Ao? I want to give the series another shot, but from a different starting point. I really didn't like anything about FC (stopped at Chapter 3 tho) but Zero seems a lot more appealing in terms of setting/art style/etc.