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If Dreams is a financial disappointment what should Shuhei Yoshida do with Media Molecule?
- Thread starter ToddBonzalez
- Start date
No creation needed.
You can take pre made objects (which will be endless after a few months) and can put them together like your own Dream puzzle :)
Yeah, basically. They'll just have to go with something safer and smaller next time, but I doubt they'll close.
Depends. I can't see it being a gang buster seller this close to the end of the generation without a heavy price cut
Make them stop making player dev tools and just make games. They're actually pretty good at that.
Would be crazy to close a fully functional studio with that much XP and know-how and sheer bloody talent.
Although I might be cheeky and suggest that they need a really good gameplay designer as they seem to be lacking a tiny bit on that front.
Would be crazy to close a fully functional studio with that much XP and know-how and sheer bloody talent.
Although I might be cheeky and suggest that they need a really good gameplay designer as they seem to be lacking a tiny bit on that front.
The second part of his post is even funnier :)
Especially after their amazing Astro Bot.
Thank you, just read some of it. Very interesting.
Basically there's no reason to panic at all since they are still making profit. The only thing that might screw them is Brexit lol depending on how that develops..
How is it not serious? Under Yoshida's tutelage BigBig, Guerrilla Cambridge, Evolution, Incognito, Studio Liverpool and Zipper have closed.
Compare for example Media Molecule and Evolution Studios financials and MM financial are ok they don't lose money but Evo was losing many money... Most of the studios closed by Sony were multiplayer oriented or doing racing game.
Then, in a more practical perspective, it's currently Shawn Layden's era.
While Shu remains President of WWS, now he reports to Chairman of WWS - a position that wasn't there a few years ago. In terms of strategic vision for WWS, it's now driven by him.
Studio Cambridge closure was planed before RIGS launched, the game had good sales and a good quality.
And many devs were switching to GG Amsterdam.
Liverpool devs (now Firesprite) made with The Persistence a great PSVR game.
Evo closing was a big mistake...
It will be a cross generation title for sure.
Either through backwards compatibility or some other means.
I don't know about "expanded", but according to wikipedia only three new "studios" have been opened/acquired since Yoshida became president of SIE Worldwide Studios: San Mateo Studio, PixelOpus and Manchester Studio. ForwardWorks too if you want to include smartphone games. And apparently San Mateo doesn't really develop games themselves, not sure what they do exactly, seems they help with production.
Yoshida closes shit. I don't know why some of you are trying to dispute that.
Evo closing was the one that made the most sense to me from sony's perspective. plummeting sales since the first motorstorm, apocolypse flat out failed, and so did driveclub. it's hard to justify keeping those doors open when they keep making duds. the fact they went on to codemasters and were shuttered there too suggests they're maybe not making games people actually want?
Zipper - The studio wanted to make MAG. They were allowed to make MAG while the first SOCOM game on PS3 was done by Slant Six. MAG took them over 4 years and while it had a lot of ideas we've seen gain in popularity since had a mediocre critical reception and very poor sales.
They then were given the chance to return to SOCOM and put out a game with mixed reviews and poor sales. After that they made Unit 13 on PSV which, again, received mixed reviews and poor sales.
Zipper closed because they moved away from their established, popular contemporary military shooter just as contemporary military shooters were about to blow up, failed to find a market for their unique project, then when they returned to their contemporary military shooter IP were too far behind to compete with where the industry had gone.
If Zipper had stuck with SOCOM they would have likely released 6-12 months after Modern Warfare and would have had a real shot at carving out their own enduring niche within the market.
Liverpool - Made a long string of WipEout and F1 games that all failed to move meaningful numbers. I love WipEout but how long should Sony have backed a studio focused on that franchise when the franchise stopped moving numbers after the PS1 era?
Incognito - A non-trivial chunk of the team left to form Eat Sleep Play including Campbell and Jaffe. Sony kept it open, then the people who were left formed LIghtBox. Both new independent studios received contracts to develop games for Sony. Neither found success. That isn't Sony closing a studio, that's the key players at the studio leaving for what they saw as greener pastures.
Guerilla Cambridge/SCEE Cambridge - Released MediEvil on the PS1, which did pretty well. Released Primal and Ghosthunter on the PS2, both with mediocre reception critically and sales-wise. Didn't have a clear path forward and were put on a PSV Killzone title and PSVR projects at a time when Sony had Guerilla gaining in popularity with Killzone and had internal understanding of what Horizon could be. So they closed Cambridge and expanded the core GG office. They literally had the studio open for almost two decades since their last commercial success.
Evolution - Motorstorm trended in the wrong direction all last generation in terms of sales while stagnating critically. Driveclub was a hell of a black eye for Sony. They still saw it through to a point where the game is a solid finished product mind you, but the outcome here shouldn't come as a surprise. Most of the team appears to have joined CodeMasters, but with OnRush having weak sales they're moving into a support role. In short the same as Liverpool - if your game isn't GT, Forza, or Mario Kart it isn't a good time to be in the AAA racer industry.
BigBig - a small studio spun off from CodeMasters and under Evolution. Made mostly PSP/PSV games. None of them found a market.
The recurring thread here is that most of the real closures (Liverpool, Cambridge, Evolution, and BigBig) were UK based studios, closing at a time when the industry was pulling out of UK games development in favor of the cheaper eastern side of the continent.
The most common thread though - studios without a bankable IP or consistent critical success to justify their existence over investing in something new. Mm has both (LBP, LBP2, and Tearaway are 95, 91, and 87 metacritic score games, LBP a multi-million selling franchise). Mm is also pretty small and fits well within Sony's claim that they want first party efforts to offer something no one else does.
I'd imagine if Dreams sells poorly Sony will just have them go back to LBP. If they can't do well returning to their established IP then they'll likely start looking at what the long term options are, but Mm at this point has plenty of security.
Not to mention Driveclubs multi was completely fucked at release.
eventhough onrush is amazing ,it also failed at retail . despite being talented , they cant create hype for evo games
Maybe it makes sense but imo a PS console must have also an good 1st party arcade racer beside GT.
And when I remember right, DC had good sales.
driveclub only started to sell when it was heavily discounted and its numerous launch issues were fixed...this means less profit. the fact it was promised as a free game on PS+ didn't help matters either.
Sony has closed down more development studios/teams than Nintendo has ever had teams
Sony almost singlehandedly destroyed the british development scene
They'd probably be tasked with creating a successful LBP4 before being allowed to develop a new IP again.
This thread and its premise are all kinds of fucked up, ignorant and insensitive.
lol, there could not possibly be a worse fit in the entire industry, I truly hope that was a god-tier joke, it definitely made me laugh out loud.
lol, there could not possibly be a worse fit in the entire industry, I truly hope that was a god-tier joke, it definitely made me laugh out loud.
The real failure on the part of Sony/Yoshida as it pertains to Evo was not better managing their IPs and studios as a collaboration.
They give Polyphony way too much latitude over Gran Turismo given how slow they are to put out new games. The right moves in hindsight (though I had made this argument then) were to have:
1. Made Gran Turismo 6 a cross-platform release. The PS4 version would have featured full 1920x1080p instead of 1440x1080p, locked 60 fps, and the superior AA methods from GT5 and/or something better from the PS4 (maybe full on super sampling). It would also come with a "Gran Turismo Evolution" online demo which would be a small vertical slice of Driveclub.
2. Driveclub never exists, instead it would target and release in early 2018 as Gran Turismo Evolution, a more arcade-feel game using the GT IP and embracing all the same features as Driveclub, but with more time for polish before release.
3. Both Polyphony and Evolution should have been collaborating on car models so that the time intensive rendering of highly detailed car models could be shared between both studios as a borderline "plug and play" level of asset sharing. The driving mechanics would be where they each set themselves apart. That should have dramatically improved Polyphony's turnaround time on GT products, while also reducing development expenses for both studios.
It would have resulted in something much more like the Forza Motorsport/Horizon relationship for Sony, backed by the Gran Turismo brand. If they'd done this I suspect Evo would still be alive and Polyphony would be a far more productive studio.
orrr...it would have resulted in the evo GT game tarnishing the GT brand if it wasn't very good. we'll never know if calling driveclub something else would have helped it. but i get the impression it wouldn't have. even GT sport isn't seen as a real GT by a lot of people and that is actually made by polyphony. i can't imagine how people would have looked at GT Evo. a game that didn't look or play like GT and was made by a completely different studio...
for me GT doesn't need 4 releases during the course of a generation (8 if you include this hypothetical GT Evo arcade release) as good as horizon on xbox is, yearly forzas are tiring and predictable. GT, for all its faults and time taken to be made, still manages to feel like a release worth celebrating. i'd like it to stay that way.
Dreams is going to flop. It's never going to make back it's massive development costs considering the length of development. Compared to last gen where they released 2 commercial success, they haven't done anything on PS4.
They won't be closed, but the studio will shrink and go back to focusing on more traditional games. If those flop too, then there's no reason to keep them open.
They won't be closed, but the studio will shrink and go back to focusing on more traditional games. If those flop too, then there's no reason to keep them open.
As long as MM games can still get great critical reception and games like God of War and Spider-man keep selling tons, I think MM are safe
I wouldn't want them to lean entirely into the Forza template of alternating yearly releases, no. More like one of each every two years, but they'd streamline cost and time to complete, allowing them to polish and also work on additional side projects for both studios, while the flagship keeps the money coming in.
And sure, a core GT audience might balk at anything having the GT label applied, but you'll never win with purists like that and they'll generally buy what you're selling regardless. There is always a risk of brand degradation with any new product, even new PD GTs take this risk. Quality control is always a concern.
Something like a new GT and GT Evo every 3-4 years each with PD getting to work on miscellaneous side projects and Evo driving the bus on the WipEout franchise as well as a few other side projects would have given a nice balance to Sony's racing portfolio.
I haven't noticed anyone disputing this.
However in this thread it's been mentioned several times that
a) the studio has a solid track record of producing critically acclaimed titles
b) the studio has been profitable and
c) the studio is relatively small.
With this in mind I find it baffling that people are still seriously talking about studio closure.
Couldn't agree more.
Keep the game live and running through PS5. We have seen so many games this gen start slow, have middling reviews and yet they keep ticking over to a point that they have large user bases and are somewhat popular.
The only issue with Dreams is how do you make money on it after its released? Maybe they go down the LBP route and sign licensing deals and put out DLC packs. The problem with that is a user can model or create anything. Why buy DLC when you can just make it and share it with everyone.
Maybe they use the engine and create stand alone games. Smaller titles that are a few hours long and don't cost full retail.
The only issue with Dreams is how do you make money on it after its released? Maybe they go down the LBP route and sign licensing deals and put out DLC packs. The problem with that is a user can model or create anything. Why buy DLC when you can just make it and share it with everyone.
Maybe they use the engine and create stand alone games. Smaller titles that are a few hours long and don't cost full retail.
Because what this industry really needs is more cookie-cutter 'traditional' games. Titles that launch and die in the same month. Titles that don't need explaining because we've played them dozens of times already. Titles that don't innovate or excite.
The role of a platform holder is to deliver unique experiences and/or be the best in class. To expand the appeal of a platform beyond traditional gamers. Dreams ticks all those boxes and has the potential to be a commercial success 'traditional' games could never hope to match. They've already done it with the multi-million selling Little Big Planet franchise. A franchise that means studio has been profitable every year since it's release.
All this without factoring in MM's role as a technology partner in Sony Worldwide Studios. Or the role they'll play in PSVR's development. Gamers are all too quick to criticise publishers for taking it safe. But if this 'hardcore' forum is anything to go by. This group are the ones who lack vision and faith in developers.
I don't know and I don't care (this said some posts here are "fun" to read).
Personally, I just want to try Dreams and see by myself because I'm afraid to be even more disappointed than with the LBP franchise (1st was a good concept, 2nd added a few things but didn't address the biggest flaws, 3rd was the sign that they'll never make it as big and awesome as many of us hoped...).
Will there be a public beta ?
Personally, I just want to try Dreams and see by myself because I'm afraid to be even more disappointed than with the LBP franchise (1st was a good concept, 2nd added a few things but didn't address the biggest flaws, 3rd was the sign that they'll never make it as big and awesome as many of us hoped...).
Will there be a public beta ?
I've played Dreams at a demo booth and still don't know what the game is about. It may find it's following but it will not do well commercially.