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stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,676
He did not sold them... he licensed it for games only.
Actually all prior communication of CDPR suggests they do indeed own the "IP as applied to games" and not a license. I'm not sure how this works in US, but in regards to Polish copyright the difference is loud and clear; the part of copyright act that explains licenses also describes "a shift of rights" that happens to be limited to an exploitation field (here: games) unless it is triggered by inheritance or business equivalent.
 

NCR Ranger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
I love this "big bad corporations abusing a poor artist" angle some here have taken. Amazing.

Was about to say the same thing.

The man was a successful author approached by a company that if my memory serves me right was best known for localizing Bioware games in Poland at the time. Figures that this company's game is going to crash and burn and wants to get his money up front. Gets his money up front but the game and later games in the series become huge hits and he decided that he wants a piece of the pie now.

It is amazing that anyone can hear all that and act like CD Projekt are in the wrong here.
 

JohnnyHustler

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9
The argument is... he own the IP and it should receive something for it... the court will decide and it will probably have an agreement to CDPR pay something to him.
He did receive something for it. Exactly what he negotiated, which was a worse deal than what CDPR originally offered in hindsight. And many people get a case in court. That doesn't mean they have a true case or will be successful.
 
Oct 31, 2017
683
I don't think it was ever in this guy's mind to do any real licensing of his work.

Branding and licensing is sometimes a numbers game. You have to try as many channels as you can and see where your product picks up, however minute, and you make sure to cover your bases.

He did none of that and his attitude reflected it considerably. I'm gonna assume he only started to pay attention because of CDPR's success.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,676
This deal was done in a late 90s / early 2000s. The case with money is debatable. Sapkowski wasn't exactly a multi-million selling author, his books were very popular in Europe and Russia, but it's not a worldwide recognition. If he decided to sold rights for this amount of money, I guess he thought that was enough for that time. He also made a deal with other gaming studio for The Witcher game that was cancelled (the one done by Metropolis Software) and a movie and TV Series (which wasn't that good) so he had some money from different sources. I wouldn't call him dumb. Remember that CD Projekt was also a smaller company at that time and was only known in Poland.
Never was much of a fan of the Witcher. Wasn't "a movie and a TV series" the same thing?
 

Wallach

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,653
Honestly I think the only surprising outcome would be CDPR letting this go to court instead of settling. The way some of you are talking about this situation is wild. The next major Witcher game title would be coming out after a potentially successful Netflix series that could really blow up the IP even more. Especially if you don't think the guy is that savvy in the first place you'd much rather take the risk-averse proposition of setting remuneration directly between you and him where you are more likely to get him to settle lower than what a court might decide based on their earnings from this IP.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,851
Santa Albertina
Actually all prior communication of CDPR suggests they do indeed own the "IP as applied to games" and not a license. I'm not sure how this works in US, but in regards to Polish copyright the difference is loud and clear; the part of copyright act that explains licenses also describes "a shift of rights" that happens to be limited to an exploitation field (here: games) unless it is triggered by inheritance or business equivalent.
Well CDPR did a communication saying they tried (the author declined) to buy the IP (everything) so I guess they only has the license for games. The IP is registered to the author.

They seem to see future in the IP... well that was before the Netflix shows, etc.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
I don't think it was ever in this guy's mind to do any real licensing of his work.

Branding and licensing is sometimes a numbers game. You have to try as many channels as you can and see where your product picks up, however minute, and you make sure to cover your bases.

He did none of that and his attitude reflected it considerably. I'm gonna assume he only started to pay attention because of CDPR's success.

He probably only cares because the game is success, it doesn't however mean anything. It is up to the courts to decide whether his claims are valid or not.

Ultimately, his attitude is not on trial. Just the terms of the agreement between CDPR and himself.
 
Oct 31, 2017
683
This deal was done in a late 90s / early 2000s. The case with money is debatable. Sapkowski wasn't exactly a multi-million selling author, his books were very popular in Europe and Russia, but it's not a worldwide recognition. If he decided to sold rights for this amount of money, I guess he thought that was enough for that time. He also made a deal with other gaming studio for The Witcher game that was cancelled (the one done by Metropolis Software) and a movie and TV Series (which wasn't that good) so he had some money from different sources. I wouldn't call him dumb. Remember that CD Projekt was also a smaller company at that time and was only known in Poland. It's easy to say now that this decision was dumb, but no one could imagine that The Witcher 3 will become such a success. He can only blame himself, he made a wrong choice.

So one bad deal and he goes 'fuck it' on what else comes? Talk about burning out fast.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,126
I can't feel that bad for him. I understand that he made a bad deal, but it seems he hardly made an uninformed one. He had no faith in the success of the games and decided that he'd prefer to take a (in hindsight, very small) lump sum. Since then, CDPR has, through enormous talent and labour, created an absolutely outstanding series of games based upon his works, and received surreal amounts critical and financial success. The games also are not direct adapatations of any of his work. They do not retell any of his stories. He will be the first to tell you that the games are not the place to go if you want to hear the stories of The Witcher, Geralt. They are the inventions of other authors, at CDPR, working using elements of his work. Those are his own words, paraphrased. I feel then, that whether they'd created Witcher games, or some other series. CDPR's success is their own. at most, the license gained them some early success for their first game. But by the time of the second game, I think it's fair to say that the games had fully come into their own right, and have on their own merits, and through the labours of CDPR, become a more visible, successful representation (if a false one, as he will remind you) of those characters and that world. So I do not feel that they owe to him a great deal. I find the idea that CDPR owes their success to him a little silly.

At the same time, I do not mean to say that his works or fortunes have languished as CDPR's star has risen. I do not know what the sales figures are for his books, but The Witcher has become something of a household name the world over. I would be extraordinarily surprised to hear that the game hasn't contributed tremendously to the success of his books. I rather suspect that his upcoming Netflix show would never have happened had the games not come about and been so successful as they are. I feel, then, that he has benefitted greatly from CDPR's work, even if not by direct financial compensation. This is perhaps the best bad deal he could have hoped to make.

None of this, of course, has anything to do with what the law says, or what the ultimate decision may be, in settlement or in court. In this whole situation though, I do not feel the least bit bad for Sapkowski, or the heads of CDPR. If there is a party who has not been duly rewarded for the success of The Witcher games, I think it's the regular employees of CDPR who have brought CDPR and Sapkowki's vision into reality through their tremendous labours, and are, as I understand it, not being compensated exceptionally well. Neither here nor there, though.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
Correct. Movie is a shortened version of a TV series. It was awful.

Why would you say....

EfbhEuW.gif


Oh right.
 
Oct 31, 2017
683
He probably only cares because the game is success, it doesn't however mean anything. It is up to the courts to decide whether his claims are valid or not.

Ultimately, his attitude is not on trial. Just the terms of the agreement between CDPR and himself.

Yes, let the Polish courts determine what is appropriate. It is that country's laws, after all.
 

Pasha

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
3,018
You can't stan for this guy without making him sound as dumb as possible.

"he didn't know the games industry"

"he didn't know what contracts were"

"he could barely read"

"he feared for his life"
"Literary genius"
"DUMB OLD MAN"
"The games only succeeded because of his work"
"No one knows who he is or any of his works because the games are so successful"
"Sold millions upon millions of books"
"Didn't even know the value of his IP"
The stans in these threads are bipolar.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,402
Didn't he also sell a lot more books due to the game?

He believes the video game series actually LOST him sales lmao

https://www.vg247.com/2017/04/19/th...metro-2033-author-says-this-is-totally-wrong/

"The belief, widely spread by CDPR, that the games made me popular outside of Poland is completely false," Sapkowski told Waypoint of The Witcher series.

"I made the games popular. All of my translations in the West – including the English one – were published before the first game."

This is just – factually incorrect? The Witcher released globally on PC in October 2006. The first Witcher book released in English was The Last Wish, which arrived in 2007, and the first novel, Blood of Elves, wasn't published in English until 2008.

The author has said in the past that The Witcher games have lost him as many book sales as it brought in, and asked about this maintained that it "would be about equal, yes".


https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...the-authors-behind-the-witcher-and-metro-2033
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,408
Of course, he has admitted to this too.
No?
Unless he changed his mind in the last year?
But Sapkowski is on record as claiming that for every reader he gained thanks to the success of the games, he lost another. Does he still believe that?

"I think the result would be about equal, yes. If anything, there are more people who have played the games because they read the books. That's my count, but I'm not sure. I never did any studies."
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...the-authors-behind-the-witcher-and-metro-2033[/QUOTE]
 

Dazraell

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Poland
So one bad deal and he goes 'fuck it' on what else comes? Talk about burning out fast.

I don't think so. It sounds like some lawyers presented him a way of having extra money and he just got on board with it. While I think it was his fault and his claims are ridiculous, I can't blame a guy for trying to earn something more from that unfortunate deal.
 
Oct 31, 2017
683
The humble thing to do would be to take the L and move on in future business dealings with the lessons learned.

Which is a problem. This guy is broadcasting to future business partners "you should be careful, i don't like to honor deals".
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
Without a doubt. Most people didn't know what the Witcher was before the games, especially W3
Are you from the US? Sapkowski was European Science Fiction Society (est. 1972) Hall of Famer in 1996 already. It was mentioned in the earlier pages that the books had sold over 5 million even before the first game. When a game breaks 5 million sales, we don't say here that nobody has heard of it do we?
 
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
He certainly should not be getting a ton of money. I also have a hard time believing these novels are any good, though, I don't know. What is obvious is that yes the games made his books a lot more successful. These two entities are pretty wrapped up in each other that is for sure. Just settle for something not 16m and move on.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
He certainly should not be getting a ton of money. I also have a hard time believing these novels are any good, though, I don't know. What is obvious is that yes the games made his books a lot more successful. These two entities are pretty wrapped up in each other that is for sure. Just settle for something not 16m and move on.
He's an awarded author, I don't know if you would like the books but allegedly they're quite good. Atleast as far as scifi and fantasy goes, they've been widely recognized works.
Why not create another work and hope it becomes successful as well rather than try and beg for money because you made a bad deal?
He has written more than Witcher stories. Also allegedly good.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
I bought a sandwich today and ate it for lunch. Paid the agreed price but now it's dinner time and i'm hungry. So i guess i'll just go to the shop and demand another sandwich for free because i feel like it.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,645
He certainly should not be getting a ton of money. I also have a hard time believing these novels are any good, though, I don't know. What is obvious is that yes the games made his books a lot more successful. These two entities are pretty wrapped up in each other that is for sure. Just settle for something not 16m and move on.

You can stan for CDPR without going this angle bro.
 
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
He's an awarded author, I don't know if you would like the books but allegedly they're quite good. Atleast as far as scifi and fantasy goes, they've been widely recognized works.

He has written more than Witcher stories. Also allegedly good.
Yeah, I think they can come to some agreement. I mean CD would not be here without him in this capacity, and he would not be as successful as he is without them.

What I don't like though is his shit attitude.
 
Oct 31, 2017
683
"Literary genius"
"DUMB OLD MAN"
"The games only succeeded because of his work"
"No one knows who he is or any of his works because the games are so successful"
"Sold millions upon millions of books"
"Didn't even know the value of his IP"
The stans in these threads are bipolar.

I tried. I fucking tried. I really did.

I recuse myself from this thread!
 
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
You can stan for CDPR without going this angle bro.
Can we stop using the fucking word stan? I swear it highlights all the hipsters on this board. If you had read any of the other topics you might have seen a more nuanced view than the bullshit accusation you just leveled against me. Shit, I had people telling me I was defending the author too much in the last one.

What are you stanning for? Are you the mediator? Praise be.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
I bought a sandwich today and ate it for lunch. Paid the agreed price but now it's dinner time and i'm hungry. So i guess i'll just go to the shop and demand another sandwich for free because i feel like it.
That makes no sense. What in that comparison are the books and what are the games? Who is Sapkowski and who is CDPR?
Yeah, I think they can come to some agreement. I mean CD would not be here without him in this capacity, and he would not be as successful as he is without them.

What I don't like though is his shit attitude.
Yeah I also said in the another thread, that throwing him a bone should have happened earlier. While 16 mil is excessive imo but 9.5k is also ridiculous in hindsight.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
The humble thing to do would be to take the L and move on in future business dealings with the lessons learned.

Which is a problem. This guy is broadcasting to future business partners "you should be careful, i don't like to honor deals".

Your blind devotion to a corporation is quite sad. It is easy to say all this garbage when you have no real stake in this. Your only stake is the fact that your favorite company might lose 16 million out of the millions they made from the games.

This is not really a problem, well it is for stan and fanboys. I doubt he is worried about future business partners at this stage of his career. He has a TV show on Netflix, his books sales probably increase or something. Don't pretend that CDPR did not benefit from having such a rich lore and characters for their game.

In any case, contract disputes are a part of business, if you are valuable enough, no contract dispute will get in the way of doing business. Any future business with the author will involve making sure they are no ambiguities in any agreement between both parties and hopefully with lead to a win-win deal, instead of a win-lose deal.

I have no stake in this. Win or lose, it won't affect me. Having said that, I do enjoy (since I am getting paid at work to type this garbage) watching people make all types of dumb arguments supporting a side without anything other than hopes and dreams.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,851
Santa Albertina
He certainly should not be getting a ton of money. I also have a hard time believing these novels are any good, though, I don't know. What is obvious is that yes the games made his books a lot more successful. These two entities are pretty wrapped up in each other that is for sure. Just settle for something not 16m and move on.
I read the up to 5th book... it is really great books... easy to read, interesting universe and characters that makes you want to read more and more.

I was reading his books and Eragon intercalated (because I had to wait the translations) and I found both series great.

The games lacks a lot in writing and characterization terms.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
Maybe I will check them out, but I am not really trustful of translations all the time unless they are really good. Or does he write in English?
He writes in Polish, to my knowledge English translations aren't the best. But have to do if that's the language you speak. Though I think there's been few different translators for different books.
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,251
You didn't see the infamous dragon, haven't you? Sorry that video doesn't had a translation.



This is one of my favourite chapters from the books, and its butchered here to hell and back lol
I have to commend their ambition though, they had some serious balls wanting to tell it with so little money.

Also this is probably one of the episodes we are going to see in the netflix series. Hope they have a better team for the golden dragon lol

Eh, rings pretty hollow to me. He hasn't touched the setting in half a decade now. He's 70 years old. He has no intentions of carrying the most recognizable characters forward. Maybe he's toying around with some ideas, but the chances he puts something out? I'd be more wiling to be that was him staking a claim in negotiations with CDPR that he can still monetize the IP via the books.

You know he released a book from the witcher universe in 2013 and he is writting another one, no?
You are saying half a decade like if this type of books dont usually take more than 5 years to write.
Someone call GRR Martin, someone take away his creation because he is taking too much to write a book!
Like, he is in the wrong here, but its better if you are not well informed stop spreading misinformation.
 
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saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Maybe I will check them out, but I am not really trustful of translations all the time unless they are really good. Or does he write in English?

No, they're translated. Can only speak for the first book and half the second one but the translation is pretty good, or so i was led to believe. Besides, his writing qualities are less on the prose itself and more in the character and world building.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
Why not create another work and hope it becomes successful as well rather than try and beg for money because you made a bad deal?

He actually doesn't need to do so. He can do anything Witcher related he wants minus gaming, the Netflix deal for example. He's not a starving bleeding artist by any measure, he has sold millions of books, his talents as an author has been recognized. His works will continue to sell and he's certainly made other deals in the past on the Witcher. Maybe the same on other workings he's done. The Witcher is a brand that he can now profit even more off due to it becoming much more known and valuable as an IP and he feels like he hasn't gotten enough of that gaming pie portion due to making a bad deal even though he repeatedly chose to get a one payment sum.
 
Mar 17, 2018
2,927
No, they're translated. Can only speak for the first book and half the second one but the translation is pretty good, or so i was led to believe. Besides, his writing qualities are less on the prose itself and more in the character and world building.

Yeah, that was what I was more talking about though. I'm an English buff, and I really don't like poor translations or random fantasy. But it does interest me I will have to look into it.

I guess maybe if it is decent like Robert Jordan early stuff I could do it, but if translated I doubt it.