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Kingdom Hearts HD 2.9 ReMIX Mafia |OT| 358/2 Scum
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
I thought Zeke had already posted >.<
I was thinking that I didn't see the need for CS to post, but I guess he could have something to say before I posted.
So then waiting on EzekelRAGE CoolestSpot Fandorin gryvan to post
My suspicion at this point is that the scum team was at most one active player and two lower key players. The way Final crumbled didn't indicate to me he was getting much advice from the scum chat. I could even see it being three quieter posters for the scum team, but odds are less in favor of that being the case. Given Final's flip I think Zeke would be the better target than Brazil; however, in an ideal world we can sniff out the third scum first and if we don't see anything about a bomb we auto-lynch Zeke the next day. Currently my money would be on z-beat or muffin as the best two to look at for the third.
Between Z-Beat and Gryvan, who do you feel worse about?
Both, from my review, provided similar reasoning. Gryvan voted first. Z-beat voted after. If there is scum there, then it seems likely that only one of them is scum.
Additionally, I would like to see your thoughts to this:
Fucking LOL at voting patterns and a wagon half dissolving suddenly being "bullshit reasons". Whatever floats your boat Stu.
I am still confused on the donna killing. The logic behind it would suggest to me that scum is still afraid of protective roles being out there on other players, given this is role madness, otherwise I imagine they would go for a better target.
Alternatively, they chose someone else, and they person they chose was swapped with donna. In a role madness game, I do think it is likely there is some transporter or swapper out there.
Alternatively, they chose someone else, and they person they chose was swapped with donna. In a role madness game, I do think it is likely there is some transporter or swapper out there.
Where the utter fuck did I say voting patterns was a BS reason? That was the third one since neither the first or second are to do with voting patterns.
And yes wagon falling apart is a BS reason as you're literally voting because you don't like a wagon disappearing. We got scum but that could easily hurt town if you voted just because the wagon was falling apart and it was a town wagon.
OP
OP
I should be clear that I am fairly certain Fand is town based on his voting record thus far. He was there on the Final lynch with me from the get-go, and he stuck with it through day two as well. He would be my heaviest town read at this point in the game.
In some past games scum have targeted Donna thinking she had some powerful PR role.
I don't know why back then or now honestly but my guess is, they thought she had some PR role that was powerful/useful to town like in those past games.
Though without the role PM, we don't even know her role this time so who knows what role scum killed.
OP
OP
I'll just say that I was really close to posting it yesterday. Won't talk about this topic right now further.
Looking over the votes from the previous day, there is some interesting results. I have only color coded known flips and my own information. I will update with CoolestSpot's results once I reveal those. I am assuming at this point in time that Donna was either town or a neutral in the absence of a flip, but I have given her a slightly different color to indicate that.
==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start - Day End
red_v2 (7 votes)
stuart444 - #36
coolestspot - #108 #109
coolestspot - #109 #178
z-beat - #266
muffin - #350
finalbeta - #376
ezekelrage - #378 #383
gryvan - #380
sweetnicole - #410
ezekelrage - #422
finalbeta (4 votes)
fandorin - #241
sweetnicole - #261 #410
themrpliskin (Natiko) - #333
red_v2 - #390 #421
red_v2 - #421 (Double)
ezekelrage (3 votes)
brazil - #137
coolestspot - #178
empressdonna - #263
finalbeta - #340 #376
==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start - Day End
red_v2 (7 votes)
stuart444 - #36
z-beat - #266
muffin - #350
finalbeta - #376
gryvan - #380
sweetnicole - #410
ezekelrage - #422
finalbeta (4 votes)
fandorin - #241
themrpliskin (Natiko) - #333
red_v2 - #421 (Double)
ezekelrage (3 votes)
brazil - #137
coolestspot - #178
empressdonna - #263
For the people on the Brazil list, I don't think any of them are scum BUT if there is scum there, I'd pick out Z-beat.
Final did say at one point that scum usually don't start trains, they jump on. It does make me think the opposite that scum wanted to start or at least get on the train early.
Assuming Nicole is telling the truth, Fandorin would be my first suspect. Unless Final was bussing Brazil knowing he probably wouldn't get lynched since his vote is the first on the Brazil train.
Final did say at one point that scum usually don't start trains, they jump on. It does make me think the opposite that scum wanted to start or at least get on the train early.
Assuming Nicole is telling the truth, Fandorin would be my first suspect. Unless Final was bussing Brazil knowing he probably wouldn't get lynched since his vote is the first on the Brazil train.
My assumption is that in the absence of a protective role or a swapper, I will be dead tomorrow morning. I would see no reason for scum to leave me alive, and I will be doing my best to provide as much information and reads as I can during the day today.
Based on the information I have, I think it will be come easy to look at the voting record and start finding patterns.
Why would you pick Fandorin? From my perspective, he was the one who started the bus on Final, and left it throughout all of Day 1. He also locked in his bus to Final at the start of Day 2, and left it there as well. There was plenty of chances for him to flip trains to make zeke one of the leading trains on day one instead of final if he was scum, and on day two he could have swapped his vote to brazil to make things 5-5 at the end of the day (since Zeke had not voted at that point in time). That would have opened things up to possibly save Final.
I am just not seeing where Fand would be a suspect given the voting record and his ability to change his vote to move the train off of final multiple times.
Okay y'all. Guess whose back again? CoolestSpot in full. Man, was that a good day. I'm glad everything went to plan. Now now, I know some of you will question my methods. But hey, now I have a full bunch of responses to ISO today, and you'll can do the same, to better gauge the game. I'm not sorry for lying to you all to be honest, as I'm more surprised any of you still take what I say at face value when it comes to bold claims like that (but I am sorry to you Straut, you're too good for us).
Now let me put my thinking cap on for once and remember what I was trying to say...
Okay, so beyond the fun of the last minute "wha-what" and yada yada, one thing did stick out to me. Rage, buddy. You're showing your hand too much.
To recap, to players and lurking readers alike, yesterday Rage was trying to move the vote off of Final as much as he could (think he was doing the same for Z, I'd have to check, but point is, dude was not having it). Lucky for him, near the end Straut brings up my eariler breadcrumb joke about the chat that everyone just brushed off. Yes, this is exactly what he wanted. Now Rage can keep questioning me about this, acting like a concerned townie and move the narrative off his scummates and get me killed. Even better, he suggests a move that when it's revealed I'm town, would get Fan killed right after, and then start a lynch train through the next couple days that would put the scum so far ahead they'd have basically won. As a scum, he'd be able to see the pieces on the board and try to line us up like domino so when our dead bodies fall the next person he wants to fall over knocks out another townie, just like he'd want. This is why I was a smug ass bastard with him yesterday, I should note.
Now, sure, maybe he was just a concerned player who really was into Final's frantic thought process, and was into this mysterious chat, after all it could be a game changer of some kind to be fair. But even being told how stupid his "lynch fan after" plan was, he was still making moves to try to set it up.
So I guess I'm right back to where I...started from. Love is good, love is strong, but buddy I just want to snap your neck and see what role comes out like a fortune cookie.
VOTE: EzekelRAGE
Honestly, I'm really looking forward to the follow-up to those votes as well. I didn't have the time to properly read things yesterday at EoD, but reading back now, all of those votes look very weak - which is a terrible look when all of them were made at a time when scum!Final was leading the vote.
gryvan and Z-Beat voted for me simply because I had the big discussion with Zeke on D1. I wonder if they'd just "drop" a vote on Zeke in the next phase after I flipped town.
Z-Beat looks particularly bad to me because he started off resigning himself to a vote on Final (accompanied by the suggestion that he really wanted to be voting for Zeke), and was eager to jump into the train against me once it became viable.
His initial vote on Final gives me airs of "Oh well, guess I have to bus this guy right now."
Stuart simply "wasn't sold on Final being scum", despite the fact that basically everyone agreed that Final was being very erratic and scummy - behavior that Stuart himself is now calling "ameltdown".
Natiko was the first to push the "This Final train is too quiet, I don't like it" line, but I don't think too much of his vote on me because he actually prodded me with questions, as he did with others.
The responses to this post are interesting given the Final flip. Also, you know who didn't respond to this post? Gryvan
Also, to note, the fact the defense for voting Brazil was that there was no defense for Final is crazy talk.
The empress thing, on the other hand, confuses the beejeezus out of me. Like...I'm heavily thinking their scum off the vibe these kit kat is giving off, but is this a move from scum to make us think they're scum? Or a scum move to make us think they're town? Or is it a town power now that I think about it...or a neutral...
I guess we don't have enough info at the moment to do enough about it, and discussing it may only distract us right now, I suppose.
The empress thing, on the other hand, confuses the beejeezus out of me. Like...I'm heavily thinking their scum off the vibe these kit kat is giving off, but is this a move from scum to make us think they're scum? Or a scum move to make us think they're town? Or is it a town power now that I think about it...or a neutral...
I guess we don't have enough info at the moment to do enough about it, and discussing it may only distract us right now, I suppose.
I'm going after the quote I mentioned from Final. And if you're telling the truth, Fand is next in line on the D2 vote list. Further more he did indeed start on Final in D1 which makes me think he was bussing from the start. Our community seems very prone to bussing so I wouldn't be surprised at all.
But Brazil is after Fand on D2 so I think it could go either way, I'm just leaning towards Fand just now though I think Brazil could also be scum. Final bussing Brazil doesn't seem like a huge stretch when he seemed less likely to be lynched at the time of Final's vote on him.
You do this to my name on purpose don't you? :P
He gets more erratic near the end of day, I even said near the end of D2 that he wasn't helping himself.
I also know new players can get easily panicky even if they are town but on the lynch block so no, I wasn't sold on him and I stand by that at the time I wasn't sold on him.
Okay y'all. Guess whose back again? CoolestSpot in full. Man, was that a good day. I'm glad everything went to plan. Now now, I know some of you will question my methods. But hey, now I have a full bunch of responses to ISO today, and you'll can do the same, to better gauge the game. I'm not sorry for lying to you all to be honest, as I'm more surprised any of you still take what I say at face value when it comes to bold claims like that (but I am sorry to you Straut, you're too good for us).
Now let me put my thinking cap on for once and remember what I was trying to say...
Okay, so beyond the fun of the last minute "wha-what" and yada yada, one thing did stick out to me. Rage, buddy. You're showing your hand too much.
To recap, to players and lurking readers alike, yesterday Rage was trying to move the vote off of Final as much as he could (think he was doing the same for Z, I'd have to check, but point is, dude was not having it). Lucky for him, near the end Straut brings up my eariler breadcrumb joke about the chat that everyone just brushed off. Yes, this is exactly what he wanted. Now Rage can keep questioning me about this, acting like a concerned townie and move the narrative off his scummates and get me killed. Even better, he suggests a move that when it's revealed I'm town, would get Fan killed right after, and then start a lynch train through the next couple days that would put the scum so far ahead they'd have basically won. As a scum, he'd be able to see the pieces on the board and try to line us up like domino so when our dead bodies fall the next person he wants to fall over knocks out another townie, just like he'd want. This is why I was a smug ass bastard with him yesterday, I should note.
Now, sure, maybe he was just a concerned player who really was into Final's frantic thought process, and was into this mysterious chat, after all it could be a game changer of some kind to be fair. But even being told how stupid his "lynch fan after" plan was, he was still making moves to try to set it up.
So I guess I'm right back to where I...started from. Love is good, love is strong, but buddy I just want to snap your neck and see what role comes out like a fortune cookie.
VOTE: EzekelRAGE
What do you think of the Final-Zeke interactions, since you seem to be scum reading Zeke. Is scum simply that obvious?
Been on the Final train for two days, tried to get people to lynch him day one, got the lynch yesterday and he is scum. Feels good.
Forgot that you don't need to reach the majority of votes on one person to lynch so long as there isn't a tie in number of votes
I am an alignment cop. I used an alignment check last night on CoolestSpot. Before I share the results, I would like to make certain that CoolestSpot was not swapped with someone else. If you swapped CoolestSpot with someone last night, please speak up now. Thanks.
Oh buddy. Spoilers about to be broken ~
Wouldn't only scum swap me though? Like town doesn't just alignment swap people...?
It's scum showing their damn hands, yeah. I mean, the only argument to make in Rage's defense is if he was Scum maybe he'd be more careful defending someone so clearly about to die or at least was getting more then side eye.
Also do remember, if you think I'm scum, you have to rationalize:
1. That we have a vig who took a shot at me and failed due to my BP
2. That scum didn't submit a night kill or did but was blocked someway else.
I was pretty up front, even tried to breadcrumb it before hand. So keep that in mind before trying to link me to scum when I'm trying to help town even if people disagree with my assessments or stances.
1. That we have a vig who took a shot at me and failed due to my BP
2. That scum didn't submit a night kill or did but was blocked someway else.
I was pretty up front, even tried to breadcrumb it before hand. So keep that in mind before trying to link me to scum when I'm trying to help town even if people disagree with my assessments or stances.
Swap as in
Fand swaps CoolestSpot with Stuart444
SweetNicole investigates CoolestSpot
While I think I get results for CoolestSpot, I actually get results for Stuart since Stuart was in CoolestSpot's place that night.
That is what a swap is.
As I said above, Z-Beat is the one that I'm suspecting the most right now.
Talking specifically about the second scenario you brought up, while I do see the logic behind scum to potentially pushing a second scum train, it'd be natural to back down (even if not completely) from the push against me after Final's flip regardless of player alignment. Scum obviously wouldn't want to continue pushing a scummate they "fake-bussed", but they also wouldn't want to continue pushing a townie that just got a lot of credibility due to the opposite train's flip results. So I don't think you can draw much from that. I think looking at where those players land next is what'll be more telling.
But why would a town member do that? How does that help us? In case one of us gets targeted for a kill?
It's usually a town role, if memory serves me, not a scum role. I know in Town of Salem the role's name is transporter, and it is a town role there.
And yeah, it can be used to save people from kills or screw up investigate results by mafia/town, etc.
And yeah, it can be used to save people from kills or screw up investigate results by mafia/town, etc.
What do you think about his response now that Coolest has responded?
Unless we think this is a four scum game, then the roles for scum are
Roleblocker
Jaintor
Godfather
Right? I don't think ever has been a game of mafia without a godfather.
Roleblocker
Jaintor
Godfather
Right? I don't think ever has been a game of mafia without a godfather.
I'm just asking cause trying to get someone to admit to it is odd to me, since confusion is what they want, but I mean better to be careful I suppose
I've been in a few games without a Godfather.
Also I don't think it's 4 scum in a 13 player game. Seems like a lot of scum when 18 player games have 4 scum often.
Won't rule it out but my guess is 3 scum.
To be fair I would've gotten shit for jumping on the main train had I been down for that vote anyway. I'm off in a few hours so I'll do some catching up then
That's cool and all, but the fact is that you came in with that vote despite how you had barely talked about me before that.
You'd only really addressed me within this second-hand argument you got from Coolest over how Nicole and I were being too town-read.
Almost everything you said about me during that phase was predicated on this link to Nicole that you didn't even come up with yourself, and that you only reinforced with insightful lines like "They have also agreed on some things".
All things considered, it basically just seems like your vote was more of an attempt to save Final than to save me.
The reason I think there is a god father is because if I am an alignment cop, it stands to reason there'd be a god father in the game to counter an alignment cop result check. There generally is a role to counter invests, and in a game with an alignment cop, a godfather would make most sense.
If that is the case, that means that we already know two of the other scum roles as Roleblocker and Janitor.
That would mean there isn't a bomber, right? Or at least not a scum bomber? But then I can't see what kind of role a bomber would be. You're basically trying to get yourself lynched so you can win the game as a neutral, but that seems to easy.
The Zeke claim of bomb defuser doesn't seem to be accurate, then. If there is no scum bomber, there is nothing for the bomb defuser to counter, thus Zeke has lied to town.
I'm keeping all of this in mind, but I'm not going to sugarcoat things I think look bad because of it.
A wagon falling apart happens because votes move. I voiced my concern over how quiet the Final lynch seemed. Then suddenly it wasn't quiet which invalidated my previous concern, thus you see me opting to vote Final. Sorry for getting irritated, just felt like your argument was purposefully misconstruing my statements.
I didn't mention you but I was thinking about you as well being too town read, I was just tunneling on Nicole as at the time I was more convinced on her than you and even if I Never brought you up during the day, if Nicole had been lynched and flipped scum, I'd have gone straight for you.
Final was a new player, I gave him the benefit of the doubt as a panicy townie so I didn't want to vote for him.
-_-
Just mentioned it because people wanting to make me look scummy will need to rationalize night 1 and I won't let people go after me without trying to do that as well.