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Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
The best book is Lord of Chaos

Fight me! :p

(That finale!!!)

Okay.

For 70% of the book nothing happened and then you get hit by several oncoming trains that feel like they were the writer just waking up from a very long nap at the wheel. Granted, they were good oncoming trains, but that doesn't forgive the 70% of nothing.

___

Anyway, guys, I think the blurb about the synopsis of the series is just the Hollywood Reporter being weird and not indicative of how the series will be structured.
 
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ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
Nynaeve is one of the strongest characters in the series. I started to like her after a certain event in Book 7, which you unfortunately most likely did not read.

I understand the rolling of the eyes with Jordan's writing of women: between "pillow-friends", tugging on braids, sniffing, etc. However there are many strong women in the books and I think having a woman being the focus is interesting.

I wonder how much they'd have to change as Moiraine is really not the focus of the books past the first one.



To be contrarian there's a character in the book series that's female that uses saidin...
really on the contrarian ... were going that that line .... Im not going to comment in more detail cause major spoilers but yeah thats an absolutely ridiculous argument here.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
I've been listening to the audiobook of book 1, but this thread is making me consider stopping. It's been pretty by the numbers fantasy so far, but it sounds like the series just completely tanks further ahead. The criticisms I've seen in these posts seem like they would really bother me.
What specifically? It's a huge series with a lot of ups and downs. As with most WoT fans, there's plenty to criticize, but the series does come together quite well in the end.

As a sidenote, the audiobooks are excellent and probably the best way to experience the series.

General series spoiler
The Forsaken are one of the most interesting parts of the series, I hope any TV adaptation will give them the time they deserve.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
Have no issues with females being more focussed on I mean the world is female dominated to start with but overall hmmm no idea . Could work. Rand normally has elaine , min or aviendha with him. Perrin has faile (in fact here I would image it would be a huge improvement on certain sections of the books when Perrin is moping about constantly) ... Matt being replaced by Egianin or Tuon viewpoints would be weaker I think. But I guess he would just be written into the scenes.

And I guess in this way the 3 taveeren would seem more mysterious I guess and it could work. But overall I dont see the impetus making it "female led". The story would be better served just doing the many many povs it has. This is just making executing something hard to execute even harder. It has strong female characters anyway and Im sure that will come through. Maybe its just the wording. I mean the intial few books have moraine front and center then white tower things anyway it only shifts to more varied later on.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I've been listening to the audiobook of book 1, but this thread is making me consider stopping. It's been pretty by the numbers fantasy so far, but it sounds like the series just completely tanks further ahead. The criticisms I've seen in these posts seem like they would really bother me.

I'm not sure why you think that from reading this thread. There are people who can't get through the series, and books 9 and 10 are a bit slow but 11-14 are an amazing finish to the story. Book 1 is by the numbers, but from Book 2 on it is its own thing and it's better for it.

really on the contrarian ... were going that that line .... Im not going to comment in more detail cause major spoilers but yeah thats an absolutely ridiculous argument here.

I wasn't being entirely serious...
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,127
Well great that it is being made. Honestly, Moraine would only work for the first five books including New Spring. After that, it wouldn't work at all. Love it or not, it is Jordan's world, so I would be very cautious about anybody significantly re-writing what was there. As a comparison, I thought pretty much all the original content in GoT was poorly written, while it was usually pretty darn good when they stuck to the script. Of course this will be completely different writes, and Jordan isn't around to input unfortunately.

I think the world building in this series, at least in terms of how fleshed out different cultures are, as well as the magic system they have going, is second to none of the fantasy series I have read. It is epic heroic power-tripping fantasy, but I like that. Still, this really would need as big a budget as GoT to make it work, and it should really. It was just as popular a series before GoT got the television treatment. So yeah, it deserves a proper shot
 

CaptNink

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,119
B.C, Canada
Just finishing up book 4 in the series (gee, only 10 more to go!) and I really can't see how this is going to translate well to the small screen.
 

Telaso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
I'm not sure why you think that from reading this thread. There are people who can't get through the series, and books 9 and 10 are a bit slow but 11-14 are an amazing finish to the story. Book 1 is by the numbers, but from Book 2 on it is its own thing and it's better for it.



I wasn't being entirely serious...

Unpopular opinion but Sanderson probably did a better job wrapping things up than Jordan would have.

I would LOVE for Graphic Audio to get a license to this series and work their magic on it.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
I've been listening to the audiobook of book 1, but this thread is making me consider stopping. It's been pretty by the numbers fantasy so far, but it sounds like the series just completely tanks further ahead. The criticisms I've seen in these posts seem like they would really bother me.

Its a good series. Just like any series has ups and downs. General consensus is 1 is decent picks up post that and 3-6 are great slows down a bit 9 10 drag but 12 13 14 pick up the pace again and finish well. Overall def worth a read and if youre doing audiobook thats the best way imo.

Color me excited. I'm going to go in with less than zero expectations and just try and enjoy the casting fun.

ooh that should be fun. And Im going in with low expectations anyway. This thing would require a huge time investment and budget to do it justice.

What specifically? It's a huge series with a lot of ups and downs. As with most WoT fans, there's plenty to criticize, but the series does come together quite well in the end.

As a sidenote, the audiobooks are excellent and probably the best way to experience the series.

General series spoiler
The Forsaken are one of the most interesting parts of the series, I hope any TV adaptation will give them the time they deserve.
Def. They need to be focussed on.

I'm not sure why you think that from reading this thread. There are people who can't get through the series, and books 9 and 10 are a bit slow but 11-14 are an amazing finish to the story. Book 1 is by the numbers, but from Book 2 on it is its own thing and it's better for it.



I wasn't being entirely serious...
ah kk
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Unpopular opinion but Sanderson probably did a better job wrapping things up than Jordan would have.

I would LOVE for Graphic Audio to get a license to this series and work their magic on it.

I don't think it's unpopular, people like Sanderson around here. I don't know that I agree. The ending specifically would have been expanded upon, and like I said, the additional novels that were hinted at would have happened. Sanderson wrote some amazing passages in these books including one of my favorites: Veins of Gold. And I think he wrapped it faster than Jordan would have, but I don't know that I could really argue whether it would be better than what Jordan would have done.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
Ok. I wonder how this will be cast but there's a good series here, maybe, in the right hands. Obviously the source material had some low points and was problematic at points but with the right treatment this could be a top-tier fantasy series.

People are really tainted by how annoying Nynaeve is in the earlier books but she changes drastically and some of her fights with and involving various Forsaken are fucking amazing. She is strong and smart and at times one of the only people able to blunt Rand (Min being the other one) as he descends into madness.

Nynaeve was ultimately my favorite character of the series. She ends up being pretty amazing.
 

Deleted member 13645

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,052
I don't think it's unpopular, people like Sanderson around here. I don't know that I agree. The ending specifically would have been expanded upon, and like I said, the additional novels that were hinted at would have happened. Sanderson wrote some amazing passages in these books including one of my favorites: Veins of Gold. And I think he wrapped it faster than Jordan would have, but I don't know that I could really argue whether it would be better than what Jordan would have done.

I also recall people saying that Sanderson changed Mat's character in a subtle but distinct way and was a large change from how Jordan likely would have written him. I can't recall the specifics, but a lot of the criticism i've seen for Sanderson's WoT books is related to how he wrote Mat.

Looks like he even did a retrospective and talked about his handling of Mat: https://brandonsanderson.com/the-wheel-of-time-retrospective-the-gathering-storm-what-i-learned/
 

Deleted member 31247

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
113
Series is way too slow and sprawling to make good tv. Its going to end up like the Shannara TV series.

The text also doesn't say that the main characters will be female, so I would expect a good mix since there are many perspectives covered by the books, both male and female. I would hope that each episode would be led by a different lead character since too much chopping and changing of perspectives would kill this stone dead.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
Series is way too slow and sprawling to make good tv. Its going to end up like the Shannara TV series.

The text also doesn't say that the main characters will be female, so I would expect a good mix since there are many perspectives covered by the books, both male and female. I would hope that each episode would be led by a different lead character since too much chopping and changing of perspectives would kill this stone dead.
There's no reason it needs to be as slow as the books.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,262
Very weird, doesn't seem like a book series that is gonna translate well to TV. If its female driven I think they will have to change one of the main 3 characters - Rand, Mat, Perrin - to be a woman, and I wonder if that'll fuck with loyal book readers especially as it affects their various relationships. To be effective they would need to cut and merge 50% of book cast, collapse a ton of plot lines, and more or less cut a few books down to one episode at best.

Challenging stuff, if they stay too authentic it'll be boring as hell but if they stray too far I could see a lot of book fans getting upset. I guess not that different from Game of Thrones though.

I'm kinda surprised no one is approaching The Belgariad or that one about the white gold and the leper dude.
 

studyguy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,282
There's no real need to change any of the characters to female.
Even if Rand isn't the focus, every character is very much involved in something large till the end with Rand there. Collapsing plot lines is going to happen anyway, you can jump straight from the intro to when Morraine and Lan show up and things go south and skip over the long intro of Emond's Field.
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,172
Unpopular opinion but Sanderson probably did a better job wrapping things up than Jordan would have.

Is that an unpopular opinion? Sanderson's writing lacked the weight of Jordan's, making it seem more comic book-ish than epic novel, but the upside of that is that it ceased to be a slog that moved the story an inch every couple of years. Seems to me the question isn't "how would Jordan have finished it?", but "would Jordan have finished it?".

Anyway, I don't have high hopes for a TV series. It's too huge a work to translate over.
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
I still really like the series but it definately has it's problems. The first 7 books are all pretty great but books 8 to 11 or 12 most people consider a slog to get through. 13 and 14 finish the series off at a much quicker pace.

The most major complaint about the series is Jordan's extreme fascination with details. There are multiple paragraphs decribing clothing, buildings, cities etc. And for some people it's just too much.

If you enjoy world building there's no better series, but it does slow down the plot quite a bit.

Wheel of Time is one of those series that I love to criticize and consider deeply flawed, but at the same time I support it and will definitely watch a television version when and if it comes out. Aside from Lord of the Rings, it's basically the biggest quintessential "epic fantasy" series out there that has actually finished. But it's very very traditional - Jordan did create an interesting world and avoided populating it with generic orcs and stuff, but ultimately it's still a black and white, good versus evil story with a lot of emphasis on prophesy and stuff like that. Rand is relatable (except for a spell in the later books where he turns into Darth Rand) but he's still the perfect fantasy white boy destined to save the world. If that sounds unappealing, then only you can decide whether or not to stop listening. I would recommend listening up to book 4, at least, to see if you like where the story is going. By then you will be more invested in the plot and the characters will have started to evolve - part of the appeal of the series is seeing these farm hillbillies slowly become world leaders. If there's anything Jordan did well, it's that.

I listened to all the books over the course of a year and half and don't regret it. If you feel neutral on the series, listening is certainly the way to go and will make the tough slog that is books 7 to 10 seem more bearable.

What specifically? It's a huge series with a lot of ups and downs. As with most WoT fans, there's plenty to criticize, but the series does come together quite well in the end.

As a sidenote, the audiobooks are excellent and probably the best way to experience the series.

General series spoiler
The Forsaken are one of the most interesting parts of the series, I hope any TV adaptation will give them the time they deserve.

I'm not sure why you think that from reading this thread. There are people who can't get through the series, and books 9 and 10 are a bit slow but 11-14 are an amazing finish to the story. Book 1 is by the numbers, but from Book 2 on it is its own thing and it's better for it.

Its a good series. Just like any series has ups and downs. General consensus is 1 is decent picks up post that and 3-6 are great slows down a bit 9 10 drag but 12 13 14 pick up the pace again and finish well. Overall def worth a read and if youre doing audiobook thats the best way imo.

Thanks for the responses. Reading the posts about how the series handles women and how Rand becomes a Fantasy Jesus with a creepy harem were pretty off putting. But regardless the series seems to have a massive fanbase and people seem to like it while acknowledging criticism. I am really enjoying book 1 so far and it's making my commute a lot easier to handle, so I'll keep on listening.
 

PKthndr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,587
Nice I'm reading these books now, on book 2, and loving it. Moirraine is cool so I am pretty hyped for this.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Thanks for the responses. Reading the posts about how the series handles women and how Rand becomes a Fantasy Jesus with a creepy harem were pretty off putting. But regardless the series seems to have a massive fanbase and people seem to like it while acknowledging criticism. I am really enjoying book 1 so far and it's making my commute a lot easier to handle, so I'll keep on listening.

If you can get through Book 2 and you aren't hooked then I would personally stop. It's where it came together for me.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,996
Moiraine-led??? Hot damn, that makes me hopeful. She is a bona-fide badass and a really interesting character. It would be cool if they play up just how noteworthy a public figure she becomes, both as a Cairhienin and Aes Sedai.

Plus her vs Forsaken. Hnnng.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Thanks for the responses. Reading the posts about how the series handles women and how Rand becomes a Fantasy Jesus with a creepy harem were pretty off putting. But regardless the series seems to have a massive fanbase and people seem to like it while acknowledging criticism. I am really enjoying book 1 so far and it's making my commute a lot easier to handle, so I'll keep on listening.
Fantasy Jesus isn't inherently an issue. I'm still on Book 11 myself, but I can imagine where his character is going to end up, and its the most honest and logical conclusion based on what happens and how the world and magic work and coexist with each other. Like right now for me, when I hear fantasy Jesus, I guess it has to do with 2 key things, and people will likely get me when I say this:
Color Swirls and Choeden Kal.
These aren't even spoilers as they pop up early enough, so don't worry, but if you are series savvy my assumption has to be in the right direction.
If you can get through Book 2 and you aren't hooked then I would personally stop. It's where it came together for me.
I would argue TDR over TGH to be honest when it comes to sticking with the books or not. TGH helps when it comes to convincing people to stick around for Rand, but TDR solidifies EVERYONES character and is the beginning of their specific character arcs. Between Mat, the Trio, Aviendha showing up, Perrin and the Illian breather, The First of Mayene, etc, it just explodes compared to the relatively contained first 2 books.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,671
I really hope they don't ruin this. Was one of my all time favorite epic fantasy books until GRRM came around.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,594
Sounds like it would be rather different. The books can certainly stand on their own though (in fact you could probably stand on them).
 

Sasliquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,295
That's putting it mildly.

Also Moraine while a prominent character early on is straight up absent for the vast, vast majority of the series.

I actually started the 7th book recently after a long gap. I still quite like... um... the one who pulls her braid a lot... but damn all the other women are so badly written and half of the book is people pining for someone but no one has any chemistry. But I'm so far in I can't just give it up.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
That's putting it mildly.

Also Moraine while a prominent character early on is straight up absent for the vast, vast majority of the series.
I think that might work to this series' favor. Bait and Switch with Moraine will keep viewers on their toes when she starts getting a less central role. In fact, it will be interesting if they do give a larger focus to the female characters, the transition from Moraine to Nynaeve/Min/Elayne/Aviendha is gonna fun to see for the resctions.

I really hope they don't ruin this. Was one of my all time favorite epic fantasy books until GRRM came around.
Me too. I love the series to death despite its flaws. The world building is unparelled, the actual world is fascinating with its larger than life cities(its like a world full of Minas Tirith's and that is what a magic fueled world should be), the contrasting magics of Saidin and Saidar for males and females is one of the most unique styles out there, and everyone is given to actually grow and mature as characters with a lot more failures than successes, which is a damn realistic way to do things.


I look forward to 20 seasons
Eh. 12 at most. Books 1-7 can be solo seasons, but 8-14 can blend into 5 seasons if they have the skills to pull it off.

Sounds like it would be rather different. The books can certainly stand on their own though (in fact you could probably stand on them).
Oh definitely. I think its going to be a faithful adaption while doing it female central, because the same etory can be told eith stronger characters. In fact have the show base it off the fact that the male protags would be nothing without some feminine strength and support by their side and its golden.
 

Naarmight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
668
I mean be fair people look who was the lead for Season 1 for GoT, I am sure it will work fine with Moraine.

Also I wonder how much of New Spring they will use, that really is an excellent book
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
I mean be fair people look who was the lead for Season 1 for GoT, I am sure it will work fine with Moraine.

Also I wonder how much of New Spring they will use, that really is an excellent book
Honestly New Spring should be used as a setup season with her going to Two Rivers at the end. Have the Drangmount prologue also be told as an episode, with her recanting the story with some Aes Sedai.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,998
I actually started the 7th book recently after a long gap. I still quite like... um... the one who pulls her braid a lot... but damn all the other women are so badly written and half of the book is people pining for someone but no one has any chemistry. But I'm so far in I can't just give it up.

WOT has so much bloat for what it is that while I'm not sorry i read it, i NEVER recommend it to anyone else.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,594
Not sure how they'll handle some of the magic stuff, thinking about it. But I think the important thing is the characters being brought across well, and finding a way to make them all shine (or in some char cases, shine better).
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Not sure how they'll handle some of the magic stuff, thinking about it. But I think the important thing is the characters being brought across well, and finding a way to make them all shine (or in some char cases, shine better).
Well fireballs, lighting, and the more illusory stuff like giant projections and what not can be done as just plain magic, but during Tar Valon and Black tower scenes we can see some of the weave stuff,ike in slow motion or explained as more noivce level stuff because they cannot weave so fast that the magic is instantaneous. Also, weaves and the nature of them being invisble to the opposite nature offers the unique and distinct chance for a Tv show to be able to be filmed with actual focuses on a specific characters PoV. Like it could be an Elayne episode and all the ass pinching magic rand does is invisble, but then you see it being woven by Nynaeve to explain what happened.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,594
Also, weaves and the nature of them being invisble to the opposite nature offers the unique and distinct chance for a Tv show to be able to be filmed with actual focuses on a specific characters PoV. Like it could be an Elayne episode and all the ass pinching magic rand does is invisble, but then you see it being woven by Nynaeve to explain what happened.
I hadn't thought of that. Cool possibilities
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,631
USA
And we have a director for the pilot

'The Wheel Of Time': Uta Briesewitz To Direct First Two Episodes Of Amazon Fantasy Drama Series

Uta Briesewitz (Westworld) is set to direct the first two episodes of The Wheel Of Time, Amazon's series adaptation of Robert Jordan's fantasy epic. Briesewitz has directed on numerous television series including The Deuce, This Is Us, Jessica Jones, Orange Is The New Black, Jane the Virgin, Fear the Walking Dead and the upcoming third season of Stranger Things, among others. She started off as a cinematographer, earning an Emmy nomination for Hung.

https://deadline.com/2019/02/the-wh...antasy-drama-series-robert-jordan-1202558701/

Also, the writers room had a visitor

 
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PKthndr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,587
And we have a director for the pilot

'The Wheel Of Time': Uta Briesewitz To Direct First Two Episodes Of Amazon Fantasy Drama Series



https://deadline.com/2019/02/the-wh...antasy-drama-series-robert-jordan-1202558701/

Also, the writers room had a visitor


Interesting. Currently halfway through book 9 and I'm looking forward to seeing how they will translate a lot of things in this series to TV. I haven't seen a lot of Westworld, but from what little I've seen it seems pretty well shot.
 

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,631
USA
Interesting. Currently halfway through book 9 and I'm looking forward to seeing how they will translate a lot of things in this series to TV. I haven't seen a lot of Westworld, but from what little I've seen it seems pretty well shot.

She seems promising. I am wondering if this series will come out before Amazon's LOTR series.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Is this factually going to be female-led or have outlets actually slightly misinterpreted Amazon's comments about it? Amazon seem to have highlighted that Aes Sedai are all-female and that the narrative "feature(s) powerful women at the core" but I can't see anything from Amazon's mouths that they've full-on oriented it around the female characters. I can understand them bumping up the importance of the female characters a bit so that the series regulars are on a fairly even footing, which is what their comments seem to imply, but it doesn't sound like they're tossing the male characters in the bin or moving them away from the foreground.
 

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
Really hope this is good. Wheel of Time was the first real big fantasy series I got into, and although the books really varied in quality and got kinda sidetracked and needlessly complex as the series went on, there's so much potential here. I really like the fact that it's female led too, especially if they focus on Nynaeve and the Aes Sedai. They have to focus on the Forsaken though.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
I was going through Rafe's twitter account and its interesting to see what the episode titles are. S1E2 is Shadow's Waiting and S1E3 is A place of Safety. If I recall Shadows Waiting js much further jn the 1st book, but it does seem that things are definitely not just going to be New Spring or something original, the episode titles and especially S1E4(The Dragon Reborn) sounds like a proper adaptation of the series with some creative strokes.
Basically, sounds like episode 1 will be Moraine's arrival to Two Rivers and everything up till the festival preparations. Episode 2 will cover Rand and Tam going back to the farm and the Trolloc Attack. Episode 3 is obviously going to be their escape and journey to Baelorn, while episode 4 will be their entrance into Baelorn, Rand meeting Min and Moraine's lecture of the Dragon to the boys.

Super exciting if things pan out as they seem. Especially the pacing, if not minimally worrying. If its a 13 episode season, those next 9 episodes will be curious as hell because this is not even the 1st quarter of the book.