The Switch/Nintendo really needs an achievement/trophy system

dsosarod · Oct 2, 2018

HeroR said:
More options isn't automatically good. In fact, in some cases it can be a negative.

But how can it be bad in this case? I don't think it would take many resources to develop it or that the console wouldn't be able to handle that system. And what's more easy it's the fact that 3rd party games already created the achievements for Steam, PS4 and Xbox One, so it's not like developers have to create them for them to appear on Switch.

In this case I don't think that having the option would be negative. Nintendo don't have to do it in their games, but at least have the option for other games to have it when they already have that in Steam, PS4 and Xbox One.

HeroR · Oct 2, 2018

Asriel said:
When is it bad, exactly? And how does it pertain to this particular request?

I was talking more in general about 'more options are good', not about more options on this specific topic.

As for the question of when more options isn't good, it usually comes in the form of too many choices. Most people when confronted with too many choices will freeze up and go into inaction. Like how some people can't decide on what type of Android they want since they're too many choices and it's actually best to narrow it down to two or three options. This happened to my mom and even then we have to give her the simplest of smart phones with the least choices to keep things simple. So more options for her wasn't good.

Another is quality. For a quick and dirty example, a buffet has far more choices than one of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants which usually only gives you like two choices for a meal. However, Ramsay's food are far better than even a high-end buffet.

dsosarod said:
But how can it be bad in this case? I don't think it would take many resources to develop it or that the console wouldn't be able to handle that system. And what's more easy it's the fact that 3rd party games already created the achievements for Steam, PS4 and Xbox One, so it's not like developers have to create them for them to appear on Switch.

In this case I don't think that having the option would be negative. Nintendo don't have to do it in their games, but at least have the option for other games to have it when they already have that in Steam, PS4 and Xbox One.

Was talking about 'more options is good' in generation, not really in the context of this topic. Should have made that clear.

Also, it isn't about resources. Nintendo doesn't have a system wide achievement because they don't want it. To them, they think achievements should be game by game basic instead of a system wide requirement, so in game achievements are good enough for them. I don't see this really changes after avoiding achievements since the Wii.

Gibordep · Oct 2, 2018

PetrCobra said:
Yeah I finished the game on Hard (on PS3 but the lists are probably the same) and got the three difficulty trophies plus one for crafting every item. It makes me want to play more, . Without trophies I would probably be done with the game, or at least the base game (I also have the DLC - twice, actually, because I bought the standalone DLC before I realized that I can just buy the complete edition).

Yes its possible that i will make a second run (new game +) with a collectible guide. But the backlog is big and probably I will move to the next game. The Uncharted games have a easy Trophie set maybe because of the ton of the game theme and feel naughty dog mad this trophy set more difficult and more scarce. Its fun that I had the game bought at a while and thought that Left Behind was not included, only when I started the game I discovered that it was.

For anyone that dont like trophies. What is the best not have the option, or to have the option to disable it?

Lothars · Oct 2, 2018

dsosarod said:
B
In this case I don't think that having the option would be negative. Nintendo don't have to do it in their games, but at least have the option for other games to have it when they already have that in Steam, PS4 and Xbox One.

Have it system level is the only way to do it. Individual games doing them is fine but the switch needs it system level if and when they do them.

Gibordep said:
For anyone that dont like trophies. What is the best not have the option, or to have the option to disable it?

Turn off notifications for them and you will never see them pop up.

LinkSlayer64 · Oct 2, 2018

It's not that important.

Mr. Poolman · Oct 2, 2018

Games should be about fun, not an endeavor.

I remain with my idea of keeping achievments away from Nintendo consoles is a smart thing to do.

Asriel · Oct 2, 2018

HeroR said:
I was talking more in general about 'more options are good', not about more options on this specific topic.

As for the question of when more options isn't good, it usually comes in the form of too many choices. Most people when confronted with too many choices will freeze up and go into inaction. Like how some people can't decide on what type of Android they want since they're too many choices and it's actually best to narrow it down to two or three options. This happened to my mom and even then we have to give her the simplest of smart phones with the least choices to keep things simple. So more options for her wasn't good.

Another is quality. For a quick and dirty example, a buffet has far more choices than one of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants which usually only gives you like two choices for a meal. However, Ramsay's food are far better than even a high-end buffet.

Was talking about 'more options is good' in generation, not really in the context of this topic. Should have made that clear.

Also, it isn't about resources. Nintendo doesn't have a system wide achievement because they don't want it. To them, they think achievements should be game by game basic instead of a system wide requirement, so in game achievements are good enough for them. I don't see this really changes after avoiding achievements since the Wii.

In those cases, those are the user's problems, not the provider.

Asriel · Oct 2, 2018

CloudCircus said:
Achievements are poisonous and just as bad as Instagram. I'm recovering from achievement and trophy addiction and the switch and retro games are much needed therapy. It's so nice to play a game and not have to think about that shit. Devs can put in their own achievements (XC2, Disgaea 5, etc.).

The hyperbole . . .

HeroR · Oct 2, 2018

Gibordep said:
Yes its possible that i will make a second run (new game +) with a collectible guide. But the backlog is big and probably I will move to the next game. The Uncharted games have a easy Trophie set maybe because of the ton of the game theme and feel naughty dog mad this trophy set more difficult and more scarce. Its fun that I had the game bought at a while and thought that Left Behind was not included, only when I started the game I discovered that it was.

For anyone that dont like trophies. What is the best not have the option, or to have the option to disable it?

Being able to turn off achievements is relatively new and people who had them stuff down their throats naturally have negative perspective of them. That and Sony and Microsoft once required every game to have achievements, regardless if the game was built with them in mind. Which is how you had one game that gave an achievement for pressing start (granted it was Simpsons so that was tongue-and-cheek along with making fun of the achievements system).

Asriel said:
In those cases, those are the user's problems, not the provider.

That is the point, which is why 'more options isn't automatically good' since most people don't want or need more options.

Gibordep · Oct 2, 2018

Lothars said:
Turn off notifications for them and you will never see them pop up.

It was a rectory question. This idea that is best not to have the functionality than have it with possibility to disable it doesn't make sense.
I have the feeling that some people that now downgrade/refuse the functionality when (if) Nintendo implement it will change their mind/reasoning.

Wamb0wneD · Oct 2, 2018

No they really don't.
I'm too old for boyscout badges in my games.
For everyone who doesn't have fun in games because they don't have arbitrary bullshit popping up from time to time and need some gamer-validation when playing games sure, continue to wish for such a system.
I'll just enjoy the games themselves instead and will never give the slightest fuck about this stuff.

Antitype · Oct 2, 2018

To be honest, I'm actually glad they don't have one. Turning off notifications does nothing when it's still part of your account, so you are effectively forced to have those worthless and meaningless gamer points whether you want it or not on the other platforms, finally being rid of them is so nice.

Asriel · Oct 2, 2018

HeroR said:
Being able to turn off achievements is relatively new and people who had them stuff down their throats naturally have negative perspective of them. That and Sony and Microsoft once required every game to have achievements, regardless if the game was built with them in mind. Which is how you had one game that gave an achievement for pressing start (granted it was Simpsons so that was tongue-and-cheek along with making fun of the achievements system).

That is the point, which is why 'more options isn't automatically good' since most people don't want or need more options.

I'm not sure what your point. Avoid giving everyone choice so the few that do have issues with making choices don't have to suffer? How is that reasonable?

It's personally not a big deal either way, but the people who are against having achievements at all strike me as odd.

HeroR · Oct 2, 2018

Asriel said:
I'm not sure what your point. Avoid giving everyone choice so the few that do have issues with making choices don't have to suffer? How is that reasonable?

It's personally not a big deal either way, but the people who are against having achievements at all strike me as odd.

That isn't what I said at all. I said that the narrative 'more options is good' isn't true all the time, plain and simple.

Seafoam Gaming · Oct 2, 2018

Totally agree. Been the main reason I skip many multiplat releases on Switch, since some games have their achievements tied to extra replay value that isn't tracked in a standard Bestiary/quest list or anything of the sort. It's infuriating to have an amazing port of Skyrim on the go as a good starting point, but without the achievements I lose a lot of replay value compared to if I just bought it on my PS4.

In-game achievements are all fine and dandy but when that's extra work for third party developers, they aren't going to implement that most of the time. I love it if they do, or at least add another way to track the stats that would lead to unlocking achievements on the other systems, but in the case of the X collections I found the in-game achievements to be very creative and a cool bonus to go for after beating the games normally. (And they weren't even made with achievements in mind!) Why Nintendo is so stupidly stubborn about including these (IIRC, they made up a dumb excuse for not doing this on Wii U that equated to "We'll let third parties do all the work") I have no idea. It NEEDS to be system wide for the sake of third parties and content parity. There's zero reason for them not to include the feature.

Asriel · Oct 2, 2018

HeroR said:
That isn't what I said at all. I said that the narrative 'more options is good' isn't true all the time, plain and simple.

How does that apply in this case, though? How is having more options bad? If you're saying that it's bad for people who for whatever reason, can't make decisions, than that sounds like a straw man argument to me.

Th0rnhead · Oct 2, 2018

I don't mind achievements. The lack of them on Switch doesn't really bother me much though. I used to be more into them, but I have too many games to play, and achievement/trophy hunting doesn't help haha.

I wouldn't mind seeing a different take on achievements from Nintendo.

mavericktopgun · Oct 2, 2018

No. It needs mp3 background Playback like the Xbox 360 and PS Vita.

Conrad Link · Oct 2, 2018

I would have collected all the korok seeds if there was an Accomplishment system on Switch. Something other people on my friends list could see and go "lol that crazy guy collected them all."

Because of that and no decent checklist on the map to keep good track of things not even my OCD'ness could get me to do all of them.

True story.

AndreGX · Oct 2, 2018

Conrad Link said:
I would have collected all the korok seeds if there was an Accomplishment system on Switch. Something other people on my friends list could see and go "lol that crazy guy collected them all."

This sounds like a compelling argument against achievements.

Windrunner · Oct 2, 2018

Some of the disaster hyperbole over achievements is reminiscent of PlayStation fans before 2008. It's more than a little embarrassing.

Like I can understand being a bit ambivalent towards them or turning off the notifications but to say that they're poisoning gaming or turning gaming into work is seriously nutty. Some achievements are pointless busywork, other games have really fun sets of achievements to 100%, you pick what you want to do with your gaming time.

If we still had Miiverse stamps and had them tied to achievements, Nintendo could have potentially had the best achievement system of any platform. It's not hard to imagine how Nintendo could have done this in a unique, Nintendo manner.

HeroR · Oct 2, 2018

Asriel said:
How does that apply in this case, though? How is having more options bad? If you're saying that it's bad for people who for whatever reason, can't make decisions, than that sounds like a straw man argument to me.

I wrote at least twice that I was talking in general, not specifically on this subject.

Aztorian · Oct 2, 2018

ByteCulture · Oct 2, 2018

And everytime you unlock one you get "1up"... seriously.... call it 1ups with a green mushroom and you have all you need

HeroR · Oct 2, 2018

AndreGX said:
This sounds like a compelling argument against achievements.

Pretty much, especially since the game itself calls you nuts for collecting them all and give you literal golden shit for your trouble.

PrimeBeef · Oct 2, 2018

Asriel said:
The hyperbole . . .

Just a but but we have had devs o the record and in blogs talk about how achievements hurts their games for various reasons. Being forced to have them to be on a system seems silly. They all should be optional. Devs should have a choice, consoles, if they want them, should have the option to disable them.

Grand Staff · Oct 2, 2018

I've always liked trophies/achievements as a way to track progress, as well as to showcase how much of a title I've played (even if I'm the only looking at it). Yes, some are very annoying to get, but I'd still like them! It would also give me a reason to play through Breath of a Wild a 3rd time (which I might be doing soon anyway).

With that being said, if Nintendo ever decides to add an achievement system, including for existing titles, please no Korok seed achievement... :(

Windrunner · Oct 2, 2018

PrimeBeef said:
Just a but but we have had devs o the record and in blogs talk about how achievements hurts their games for various reasons. Being forced to have them to be on a system seems silly. They all should be optional. Devs should have a choice, consoles, if they want them, should have the option to disable them.

I'm glad they don't on other platforms just like they can't opt out of cloud saves.

If the developer can't be arsed with them they can just put joke ones in instead (see Undertale).

Asriel · Oct 2, 2018

PrimeBeef said:
Just a but but we have had devs o the record and in blogs talk about how achievements hurts their games for various reasons. Being forced to have them to be on a system seems silly. They all should be optional. Devs should have a choice, consoles, if they want them, should have the option to disable them.

Probably the only compelling reason so far not to include them. This is understandable.

PrimeBeef · Oct 2, 2018

Windrunner said:
I'm glad they don't on other platforms just like they can't opt out of cloud saves.

If the developer can't be arsed with them they can just put joke ones in instead (see Undertale).

If a dev doesn't want to do them, they should not be forced to. And Undertale and others with shitty achievements just to make the count have been ridiculed for doing just that.

Quacktion · Oct 2, 2018

Dont most Nintendo games nowadays have bootleg Achievement systems anyway? Like Wario Ware Gold as the most recent example. Hell some devs get around it by implementing their own in-game "challanges" like the Mega Man collections, so at this point its a matter of when really, its just Nintendo being late to the party as usual.

Windrunner · Oct 2, 2018

PrimeBeef said:
If a dev doesn't want to do them, they should not be forced to. And Undertale and others with shitty achievements just to make the count have been ridiculed for doing just that.

I disagree, having them be mandatory is no big deal and fortunately for me, 2 of the 3 console manufacturers agree; they're something we expect now and it's up to Nintendo to play catch up. We already have a bunch of games with achievements on Switch, time to have them centralised and on NSO profiles instead of cordoned off on save files.

SiG · Oct 2, 2018

nib95 said:
But you can turn said notifications off in both other systems....

You do so at the expense off turning all system notifications off, which include invites and messages.

nib95 · Oct 2, 2018

SiG said:
You do so at the expense off turning all system notifications off, which include invites and messages.

Nope. You can turn off trophy/achievement notifications specifically.

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/g...tion-apps---features/ps4--your-notifications/

https://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/console/pop-up-notifications

HeroR · Oct 2, 2018

Windrunner said:
I disagree, having them be mandatory is no big deal and fortunately for me, 2 of the 3 console manufacturers agree; they're something we expect now and it's up to Nintendo to play catch up. We already have a bunch of games with achievements on Switch, time to have them centralised and on NSO profiles instead of cordoned off on save files.

Why should dev be forced to put achievements in their games?

Razor Mom · Oct 2, 2018

Donizetty · Oct 2, 2018

I'm fine without them. In fact I hate all those messages of "Achievement: First time dying" or silly things like that.

Glio · Oct 2, 2018

If they added it, it would not bother me, but I do not care in the least.

I see everything about the achievements a little silly.

angelgrievous · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Poolman said:
Games should be about fun, not an endeavor.

I remain with my idea of keeping achievments away from Nintendo consoles is a smart thing to do.

What in the world makes you think that the people who go after trophies/achievements in games are not having any fun? I'd really like to know how you came to this conclusion.

Windrunner said:
Some of the disaster hyperbole over achievements is reminiscent of PlayStation fans before 2008. It's more than a little embarrassing.

Like I can understand being a bit ambivalent towards them or turning off the notifications but to say that they're poisoning gaming or turning gaming into work is seriously nutty. Some achievements are pointless busywork, other games have really fun sets of achievements to 100%, you pick what you want to do with your gaming time.

If we still had Miiverse stamps and had them tied to achievements, Nintendo could have potentially had the best achievement system of any platform. It's not hard to imagine how Nintendo could have done this in a unique, Nintendo manner.

It honestly baffles my mind. So many people on this board claim that there is no wrong way to play a video game. The moment someone says they enjoy games by trying to get all of the achievements however, the whole things goes to shit and those people are actually just doing it to show off to others.

Razor Mom said:

See this^

The very second everyone stops giving a shit about what others find enjoyment in, the better everyone will be.

RPG_Fanatic · Oct 2, 2018

icespide said:
I couldn't care less about achievements honestly

Same.

EdgeXL · Oct 2, 2018

Lothars said:
Have it system level is the only way to do it.

This is what confuses me. Why is system level the only way to do it? Let's say there is an achievement for killing 5 billion enemies. You do the work and kill those 5 billion enemies and get the achievement. What difference does it make if the achievement is in-game or system level? You had the experience of killing 5 billion enemies and you got your virtual cookie either way.

I truly do not understand why system level is the only way.

Gibordep · Oct 2, 2018

HeroR said:
Why should dev be forced to put achievements in their games?

They already put and it doesn't hurt any third party support on Xbox ans PS4

TeHi & BuSp · Oct 2, 2018

You can have retroachievements with retroarch now... or not?

Windrunner · Oct 2, 2018

HeroR said:
Why should dev be forced to put achievements in their games?

Because mandating things like achievements and cloud saves instead of giving developers an opt-out makes for a more coherent gaming ecosystem and customers don't have to wonder which features have been arbitrarily disabled before buying a game.

The whole achievement situation is endemic of the Switch ecosystem as a whole. On PSN/XBL I don't have to wonder about party chat, communities, messaging, cloud saves, achievements and the like, it's all universal. The Switch by comparison is a mess of in-game achievements for some games, developers opting out of cloud saves and only a few first party games supporting Nintendo's voice chat app. It's an incoherent mess and one that shouldn't be defended.

Pancakes R Us · Oct 2, 2018

Don't worry, OP. It's coming. In about 7 years. And the only way to check your trophies will be through the smartphone app. Ho ho ho ho ho.

mindsale · Oct 2, 2018

There's really no excuse for it not to. Add more replay value, end of story.

Don't like it? Ignore achievements.

Donizetty · Oct 2, 2018

mindsale said:
There's really no excuse for it not to. Add more replay value, end of story.

Don't like it? Ignore achievements.

Nintendo is already doing it.

MetalBoi · Oct 2, 2018

Grand Staff said:
I've always liked trophies/achievements as a way to track progress, as well as to showcase how much of a title I've played (even if I'm the only looking at it). Yes, some are very annoying to get, but I'd still like them! It would also give me a reason to play through Breath of a Wild a 3rd time (which I might be doing soon anyway).

With that being said, if Nintendo ever decides to add an achievement system, including for existing titles, please no Korok seed achievement... :(

Well you're in luck because there's an app that tells you exactly how much time you've spent with each game every month and keeps track of all your playing info. You don't need achievements for that.

jrDev · Oct 2, 2018

Windrunner said:
Because mandating things like achievements and cloud saves instead of giving developers an opt-out makes for a more coherent gaming ecosystem and customers don't have to wonder which features have been arbitrarily disabled before buying a game.

The whole achievement situation is endemic of the Switch ecosystem as a whole. On PSN/XBL I don't have to wonder about party chat, communities, messaging, cloud saves, achievements and the like, it's all universal. The Switch by comparison is a mess of in-game achievements for some games, developers opting out of cloud saves and only a few first party games supporting Nintendo's voice chat app. It's an incoherent mess and one that shouldn't be defended.

Again, why should developers be forced to do such things which takes time away from doing other necessary things? And achievements are not necessary...

Windrunner · Oct 2, 2018

jrDev said:
Again, why should developers be forced to do such things which takes time away from doing other necessary things?

Because things like cloud saves and achievements are necessary and expected and they are doing them already anyway on the other 2 platforms.

You're arguing to have less features on Switch games in comparison to their PS4 and XB1 counterparts. Incredible.

The Switch/Nintendo really needs an achievement/trophy system

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