Is most translation done freelance these days?

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

I'm a bit late, but I noticed "MeetTheTranslator" is a thing, and I noticed a trend...

https://twitter.com/yukinogatari/status/1046997923601551361

I'm yukino, freelance translator on The House in Fata Morgana, its sequel/prequel A Requiem for Innocence, the upcoming console version Dreams of the Revenants Edition, its manga The Veil Over Your Eyes, plus Trample on Schatten and a few other things!

I think you get the idea. I recall seeing this word thrown around when the BlazBlue Central Fiction translation was getting done, too. I used to think these were employees of the company doing these jobs, like in the Working Designs days, but it seems that's no longer the case.

Doesn't it seem like this is taking advantage of the hard work translators put out, rather than making them actual company employees?

Deleted member 37739 · Oct 2, 2018

I think, generally speaking, localisation and translation is handled by specialist agencies (which might include freelancers) - particularly for larger organisations that are translating into a dozen languages or more.

Com_Raven · Oct 2, 2018

Having a translator for each language as a full-time employee often doesn't make sense due to the timescale of game development. In many cases, they would not have much work for 2 years, until all the text in a game is finalized as you get closer to release. Many larger companies have full-time people or teams internally who manage the localization and work with all the external agencies and vendors, however.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

RunesmithCaryll said:
I think, generally speaking, localisation and translation is handled by specialist agencies - particularly for larger organisations that are translating into a dozen languages or more.

A lot of the examples I'm seeing are from tiny companies, namely MangaGamer(Fata Morgana) and assorted niche VNs.

I can imagine Nintendo and such use agencies, but the smaller companies seem to literally hire a single person to do it, not someone from a company.

deepFlaw · Oct 2, 2018

My impression isn't necessarily "most", but for a lot of smaller games it's definitely how things get done? Even if there's an editor/oversight happening in house.

Especially for relatively smaller companies that still have a lot of different projects at once, it seems difficult to maintain a big translation team vs pulling in freelancers or outside companies to help. Particularly if we're talking Manga Gamer, Sekai, etc. level of project count.

It is unfortunate because even though - ideally, at least - it may let folks work on more projects they enjoy, it's obviously not going to pay as well as it should.

Regiruler · Oct 2, 2018

cj_iwakura said:
I can imagine Nintendo and such use agencies, but the smaller companies seem to literally hire a single person to do it, not someone from a company.

That's not "most games". You're looking at a lot of one genre.

kennyamr · Oct 2, 2018

Square Enix has an excellent localization department for FFXIV led by Koji Fox.
To my knowledge, the members of that team are permanent employees of the company, but I can't be completely sure if they all are.
Anyway, they do an amazing job translating everything and also adding some extra flavor to the lore and dialogue.
They are one of the best parts of the game so I really hope they are all well compensated by Square.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

kennyamr said:
Square Enix has an excellent localization department for FFXIV led by Koji Fox.
To my knowledge, the members of that team are official permanent employees of the company, but I can't be completely sure if they all are.
Anyway, they do an amazing job translating everything and also adding some extra flavor to the lore and dialogue.
They are one of the best parts of the game so I really hope they are all well compensated by Square.

Yeah, that's what really gets me. When a game has a great localization, you always think 'wow, [company] did a great job on the script', but in actuality, it was probably just one or two people who don't even work for them.

deepFlaw · Oct 2, 2018

Com_Raven said:
Having a translator for each language as a full-time employee often doesn't make sense due to the timescale of game development. In many cases, they would not have much work for 2 years, until all the text in a game is finalized as you get closer to release. Many larger companies have full-time people or teams internally who manage the localization and work with all the external agencies and vendors, however.

I think the kind of game we're discussing here would tend to be an already finished (or close to being finished) Japanese game handled by an American publisher that likely has no ties to the original dev company, to be clear. Publishing companies like that need to be localizing games constantly.

Regiruler said:
That's not "most games". You're looking at a lot of one genre.

I wouldn't point to genre as much as smaller (if only in America) Japanese games. It's definitely far more prevalent for VNs but that's not an exclusive thing.

Freddo · Oct 2, 2018

I've gotten a similar impression of the Swedish TV/film subtitles industry, that it consist of a huge chunk of freelance translators.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

deepFlaw said:
I think the kind of game we're discussing here would tend to be an already finished (or close to being finished) Japanese game handled by an American publisher that likely has no ties to the original dev company, to be clear. Publishing companies like that need to be localizing games constantly.

Yeah, this. Companies like MG and Sekai are localizing VNs constantly, so why even have freelancers? If they do great work, make them regulars.

Deleted member 37739 · Oct 2, 2018

cj_iwakura said:
A lot of the examples I'm seeing are from tiny companies, namely MangaGamer(Fata Morgana) and assorted niche VNs.

I can imagine Nintendo and such use agencies, but the smaller companies seem to literally hire a single person to do it, not someone from a company.

Yeah, I can see that being the case - each company will handle it differently depending on their own budgets and needs. If you're just translating to a single language for a single project, then it might make sense to have a single, trusted point of contact, both for the sake of consistency and ease of communication. I can definitely see the advantages there, but if you're looking at a much larger project, with thousands of lines of dialogue to be translated, plus marketing materials and assets into say fifteen different languages over the course of six or eight months, hiring and managing freelancers for each language might be less convenient. Horses for courses essentially. (Full disclosure: this is a fairly big part of my own work).

Alvis · Oct 2, 2018

I just started the translation and interpretation university degree this year and my hope is to translate videogames into Spanish someday. Wish me luck!

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

Xharos said:
I just started the translation and interpretation university dregree this year and my hope is to translate videogames into Spanish someday. Wish me luck!

You're gonna need it, because it sure doesn't seem like a lucrative field. Godspeed, though.

OrakioRob · Oct 2, 2018

Translation is mostly done by freelancers, and most translators I know (actually, all of the translators I know) prefer to work this way. I've been a translator for 12 years and I've refused offers to work in-house multiple times.

I've been working with game localization for the last two years and all of the jobs I got were freelancing jobs. What happens is, the translation agency specialized in game localization gets the job and sends to freelancers like me.

I've worked in many mobile games, but also some pretty high-profile ones, and it's always been like this.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

OrakioRob said:
Translation is mostly done by freelancers, and most translators I know (actually, all of the translators I know) prefer to work this way. I've been a translator for 12 years and I've refused offers to work in-house multiple times.

I've been working with game localization for the last two years and all of the jobs I got were freelancing jobs. What happens is, the translation agency specialized in game localization gets the job and sends to freelancers like me.

I've worked in many mobile games, but also some pretty high-profile ones, and it's always been like this.

Why do they prefer it? Can they sufficiently get by that way? Just seems like working for a company would be more stable, and get them proper credit. Seems like freelancers rarely if ever get credited in the finished product.

Com_Raven · Oct 2, 2018

deepFlaw said:
I think the kind of game we're discussing here would tend to be an already finished (or close to being finished) Japanese game handled by an American publisher that likely has no ties to the original dev company, to be clear. Publishing companies like that need to be localizing games constantly.

Well in that case we are certainly not talking about "most games then, but a very specific niche.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

Com_Raven said:
Well in that case we are certainly not talking about "most games then, but a very specific niche.

Most Japanese to English projects nowadays are usually JRPGs or VNs, which are still kind of niche.

OrakioRob · Oct 2, 2018

cj_iwakura said:
Why do they prefer it? Can they sufficiently get by that way? Just seems like working for a company would be more stable, and get them proper credit. Seems like freelancers rarely if ever get credited in the finished product.

Well, it's a pretty lucrative business for me, and I can definitely make more money as a freelancer then as a hired translator, at least in Brazil.

Also, "stable" is complicated. I think having many different agencies sending me jobs every month is way more stable then having a single employer responsible for all of my money, but that is part of a broader, freelancing job, discussion.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

OrakioRob said:
Well, it's a pretty lucrative business for me, and I can definitely make more money as a freelancer then as a hired translator, at least in Brazil.

Also, "stable" is complicated. I think having many different agencies sending me jobs every month is way more stable then having a single employer responsible for all of my money, but that is part of a broader, freelancing job, discussion.

Fair enough. Take the Super Robot Wars X translator above, they're probably not even credited in the game, and it's never even going to be released in the US.

Com_Raven · Oct 2, 2018

cj_iwakura said:
Most Japanese to English projects nowadays are usually JRPGs or VNs, which are still kind of niche.

Fair point, I just meant that your thread title just asked about "most translation", while your actual question seems to be about the very narrow topic of "Japanese games being translated into English", as opposed to for example the 13 or so languages that Assassin's Creed is translated into.

RoyLee · Oct 2, 2018

OrakioRob said:
Translation is mostly done by freelancers, and most translators I know (actually, all of the translators I know) prefer to work this way. I've been a translator for 12 years and I've refused offers to work in-house multiple times.

I've been working with game localization for the last two years and all of the jobs I got were freelancing jobs. What happens is, the translation agency specialized in game localization gets the job and sends to freelancers like me.

I've worked in many mobile games, but also some pretty high-profile ones, and it's always been like this.

I've been looking into doing something like this. What level of education would you recommend for a career such as that?

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

Com_Raven said:
Fair point, I just meant that your thread title just asked about "most translation", while your actual question seems to be about the very narrow topic of "Japanese games being translated into English", as opposed to for example the 13 or so languages that Assassin's Creed is translated into.

Yeah, I mean specifically Japanese to English, since that's the most common thing. (That I get exposed to, anyway)

Deleted member 5334 · Oct 2, 2018

Most people that I'm familiar with (some which I know personally) that work in the anime industry are freelance, with a few exceptions. So I'm not totally shocked that this extends to the gaming industry as well.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

Mendinso said:
Most people that I'm familiar with (some which I know personally) that work in the anime industry are freelance, with a few exceptions. So I'm not totally shocked that this extends to the gaming industry as well.

I saw that a lot too via the tag, which doesn't surprise me. Crunchyroll probably couldn't exist without freelancers, with all the countless shows they release.

OrakioRob · Oct 2, 2018

TheRoyLee said:
I've been looking for something like this. What level of education would you recommend for a career such as that?

In terms of what is required by law, I do not know how it works in your country, but in Brazil you do not need a degree to work as a translator (and none of my clients in different countries ever asked it from me). That said, I'm a Bachelor of Arts with a Major in English, and having that in my resumé sure helps a lot.

The most important thing is that you need to have a good grasp on the source language and an even better grasp on the target language (usually your native language). Reading a lot in both languages (and by "reading" I mean not only books, but comic books, ads in magazines and even the text in food packages), is also very important to make you a good translator, specially if you're working with game localization, because you'll translate all kinds of stuff. You can go from fantasy to sci-fi in the same day.

Deleted member 5334 · Oct 2, 2018

cj_iwakura said:
I saw that a lot too via the tag, which doesn't surprise me. Crunchyroll probably couldn't exist without freelancers, with all the countless shows they release.

What's kinda interesting is on the anime front, sometimes the Japanese studio will translate in house and give the translations to the licensors to subtitle (such as doing an editing pass and timing) for the simulcasts and sometimes for the video releases as well. Not sure if this happens often in the video game industry anymore (it used to be more common in the 80s and 90s, and for the record, I'm not talking about a US branch handling it if they exist, more so the Japanese branch in this scenario).

nikasun :D · Oct 2, 2018

TheRoyLee said:
I've been looking into doing something like this. What level of education would you recommend for a career such as that?

It is definitely helpful if you have worked with text on a university level, but I think playing a lot of games and understanding certain gaming concepts etc. is also a big part of being a good freelance translator. Most of the time (speaking from my experience), you barely get any reference material and need to ask a lot of questions to be on the safe side with the meaning of a word.

As far as I know, it is usually best to translate from language X to your mother tongue, so for me it is English to German. Having the education OrakioRob has is definitely a plus, but some agencies can only pay a certain amount regardless of your qualification (or are willing to pay a certain amount). If you ever want to work within a company as a project manager or something like that, a university degree definitely helps.

I started in 2011 with a summer project as a translator and localize videogames professionally (if you want to call it that) since 2013. Yes, it is frustrating that I am the something like a ghost writer working with agencies and rarely get mentioned in the credits, but it is what it is. It would probably help If I were to start a company with my team and then negotiate about being included in the credits and being able to put the projects on the company page, but there are no advantages compared to the company form we currently are.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

luffeN said:
It is definitely helpful if you have worked with text on a university level, but I think playing a lot of games and understanding certain gaming concepts etc. is also a big part of being a good freelance translator. Most of the time (speaking from my experience), you barely get any reference material and need to ask a lot of questions to be on the safe side with the meaning of a word.

As far as I know, it is usually best to translate from language X to your mother tongue, so for me it is English to German. Having the education OrakioRob has is definitely a plus, but some agencies can only pay a certain amount regardless of your qualification (or are willing to pay a certain amount). If you ever want to work within a company as a project manager or something like that, a university degree definitely helps.

I started in 2011 with a summer project as a translator and localize videogames professionally (if you want to call it that) since 2013. Yes, it is frustrating that I am the something like a ghost writer working with agencies and rarely get mentioned in the credits, but it is what it is. It would probably help If I were to start a company with my team and then negotiate about being included in the credits and being able to put the projects on the company page, but there are no advantages compared to the company form we currently are.

It feels tangentially similar to how game developers are treated. People want it to change, but it's become such a normalized thing that no one wants to bother trying.

I miss when it was a smaller industry when localizers got proper credit, front and center.

Good luck seeing that nowadays.

Aeana · Oct 2, 2018

RunesmithCaryll said:
I think, generally speaking, localisation and translation is handled by specialist agencies (which might include freelancers) - particularly for larger organisations that are translating into a dozen languages or more.

This. Even 428 was translated through Kajiya Productions with a freelancer, Kevin Frane. I mention this specifically because I know cj_iwakura is interested in this.
XSEED also hires quite a few freelance translators for RPG projects.

cj_iwakura · Oct 2, 2018

Aeana said:
This. Even 428 was translated through Kajiya Productions with a freelancer, Kevin Frane. I mention this specifically because I know cj_iwakura is interested in this.
XSEED also hires quite a few freelance translators for RPG projects.

They've also outright licensed fan translator work, but I think some of those freelancers eventually became members of the company.

I'm well aware about 428, but it was literally a marketing point, the localization team were practically doing the marketing too.

You don't see that so much with other projects.

nikasun :D · Oct 2, 2018

cj_iwakura said:
It feels tangentially similar to how game developers are treated. People want it to change, but it's become such a normalized thing that no one wants to bother trying.

I miss when it was a smaller industry when localizers got proper credit, front and center.

Funnily enough, when it comes to language testing, at least with the projects I was a part of, you get your name in the credits (and depending on the company even with a nickname if you so choose).

deepFlaw · Oct 2, 2018

cj_iwakura said:
Yeah, this. Companies like MG and Sekai are localizing VNs constantly, so why even have freelancers? If they do great work, make them regulars.

Well, I was thinking of it more the other way around - they have so many projects simultaneously at times, and with that count changing often, that it would be harder to maintain a regular staff. Vs a company with a regular staff where you'd only take on as much as you could do with who you have.

RoyLee · Oct 3, 2018

luffeN said:
It is definitely helpful if you have worked with text on a university level, but I think playing a lot of games and understanding certain gaming concepts etc. is also a big part of being a good freelance translator. Most of the time (speaking from my experience), you barely get any reference material and need to ask a lot of questions to be on the safe side with the meaning of a word.

As far as I know, it is usually best to translate from language X to your mother tongue, so for me it is English to German. Having the education OrakioRob has is definitely a plus, but some agencies can only pay a certain amount regardless of your qualification (or are willing to pay a certain amount). If you ever want to work within a company as a project manager or something like that, a university degree definitely helps.

I started in 2011 with a summer project as a translator and localize videogames professionally (if you want to call it that) since 2013. Yes, it is frustrating that I am the something like a ghost writer working with agencies and rarely get mentioned in the credits, but it is what it is. It would probably help If I were to start a company with my team and then negotiate about being included in the credits and being able to put the projects on the company page, but there are no advantages compared to the company form we currently are.

Thanks for the reply. I will definitely look into this more in the future. I am taking a few french classes right now in college and hopefully I get a minor in it, so that might help.

Chaserjoey · Oct 3, 2018

Brian Gray is a freelancer, but Square Enix pretty much goes to him for all of their translation needs as I always see his name in the credits of their Japanese games.

Freelance game translator/writer. ゲーム業界のフリーランス翻訳者・ライター Fire Emblem/Kingdom Hearts/World of Final Fantasy/The World Ends with You/Monster Hunter/Gotta Protectors

I think he remains freelancer so he isn't tied down to one company and can take on more projects from various places. I assume this may be what others are doing as well?

nikasun :D · Oct 3, 2018

Chaserjoey said:
I think he remains freelancer so he isn't tied down to one company and can take on more projects from various places. I assume this may be what others are doing as well?

As a freelancer that is pretty much what anyone needs to do to survive. Or let's put it this way: If you are not one of THE super localizers getting paid a premium, you really need to fan out and take on as many clients/projects you can get to grow both "artistically" and financially. You also need to think about a direct or indirect relation to the project. It can be customer -> localizer or customer -> agency -> localizer. The more people/parties in the chain, the less money you usually get.

Edit: The big money for agencies is in the voicing area (at least for Germany/France IIRC).

Is most translation done freelance these days?

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