Sapkowski (author of The Witcher universe) wants ~16 million USD from CD Projekt

daybreak · Oct 2, 2018

potentialtodisplease said:
Also, you people that think this game was anything without the books and content are completely delusional. I don't think he deserves 16m, but hey I'd throw him a bone at least.

The books weren't even translated to English before the games came out. They were a cult hit in Europe before the games, but the games turned them into a worldwide cult hit.

The first Witcher game had only sold ~1 million copies a year or so after its release. A popular game, but not a world-changing one.

It was the hard work put in by CDPR on The Witcher 2 and especially The Witcher 3 that turned the series into a global hit and got it the Netflix series, English adaptations of all the books, etc.

Sapkowski is being greedy, pure and simple.

Starlatine · Oct 2, 2018

Parvaati said:
It's his creation. He deserves it. It's not even that much for a corporation like CDProjekt.

The games are his creation now?
Also he should totally sue netflix to get more 30 million, its not even that much for them

A previous poster said it best

johancruijff said:
we went from a 6 month expiration date for IPs the other day to author should get money perpetually no matter what

Shelbyville Milhouse · Oct 2, 2018

potentialtodisplease said:
Also, you people that think this game was anything without the books and content are completely delusional. I don't think he deserves 16m, but hey I'd throw him a bone at least.

I would agree in theory but the guy spent the last years constantly shitting on CDP and the games. Yeah, it would be nice if CDP gave him some money, but that dude burned all the bridges before anybody even knew they were planned.

Kiekura · Oct 2, 2018

AgainstTheCurrent said:
'Deserves'?

He had that chance with the original negotiation. He undervalued the IP. Now he doesn't deserve anything more.

That's business.

/Thread

Purely his own fault.

Council Pop · Oct 2, 2018

potentialtodisplease said:
Hey that movie is amazing. The Coens are on a great streak again.

They certainly are. Everything they've done in the last few years (from A Serious Man onwards IMO) has been gold.

Daniel Westlake · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
Well, he deserves something. He created the very thing that made CDPR famous. He made a bad deal back then, but law isn't about "well, serves you right", it's about being fair. And it's fair that the man who created the universe CDPR could never hope to achieve (otherwise they would be making brand new IPs) gets paid for the success he helped achieve. Even if he's an asshole who didn't believe games could make this much money.

No it's not. He entered negotiations fucked up due to his own lack of consideration and suffered a loss of possible profit, that's it. He deserves nothing, he should've made a better initial deal.

RDreamer · Oct 2, 2018

To everyone that's like "They should probably pay him, but 16 million is ridiculous"

... you guys know how negotiations work, right?

ASaiyan · Oct 2, 2018

ZeroX said:
He's doing it for a settlement that'll be much less, and they'll probably do it to save time and potentially money. Just get him to sign an NDA so he can't keep running his mouth.

Yup. He would probably lose (under US law anyway, not sure about EU law), but CDPR will not want to waste the time, money, and potential for more negative press on a lawsuit. So they'll hand him $3 million and he'll take his ball and go home, lol.

Frankly if I were in his position a decade ago I might've just taken the upfront payment too. But a deal's a deal. No royalties for a permanent(?) license means no royalties.

Mansally · Oct 2, 2018

Wow, what in the world kind of deal...? CDP are in a bad situation with this as well and I wouldn't want to be them. How will they look if they don't respond with a settlement offer. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the various parts of the company regarding the goings-on.

IDreamOfHime · Oct 2, 2018

His demand is ludicrous. He was offered potentially more money than he could dream of, but his own ignorance and short term greed devalued his lifes work for pennies...

However...

CDP should be the bigger guy here and at least give him a few million to be the good guys, his creation is the reason most people in that studio are able to eat and provide for their families..

Chris. · Oct 2, 2018

Lmao, this guy just doesn't give up.

You fucked up, you gotta live with it. Simple as that. Maybe you should have had more faith in your project.

Guy is one salty fucker. CDPR shouldn't pay him a penny, all he has done is talk shit about the games since TW3. Fuck him.

Gonzalo · Oct 2, 2018

Makes sense that the author of a Mercenary series is going back on his word for money.

UserDoesNotExist · Oct 2, 2018

It's telling that this "auteur" is using the same business practices as patent trolls (waiting until well after it's become clear that a product is a success to maximize revenue from their payout.) This is a shameless money grab by a calculating business man, nothing more.

Personally, I'd probably give him some shut-up money even though he doesn't deserve a dime, just to get him off my case and call off the social media mob that forms their opinions based on headlines and their internal truthiness, but I'm not CDPR.

Daniel Westlake · Oct 2, 2018

I assume a lot of the people saying he deserves something are probably viewing it from the standpoint of "hey if I was also a in his situation I would want money' which that's not how life works.

Meaningless Code · Oct 2, 2018

Deleted member 1759 · Oct 2, 2018

johancruijff said:
we went from a 6 month expiration date for IPs the other day to author should get money perpetually no matter what

i wonder why

What's this about? Must have missed it.

Starlatine · Oct 2, 2018

RDreamer said:
To everyone that's like "They should probably pay him, but 16 million is ridiculous"

... you guys know how negotiations work, right?

It's ridiculous even taking negotiations MO and settled values into account. One free million because someone feels a contract they signed themselves and refused to negotiate was "harmful and deceitful" is already too much

Qikz · Oct 2, 2018

duckroll said:
If I lucked out and made a really good licensing deal for a franchise I really admired and wanted to adapt it to something else, and if it then became really successful and the original creator later regretted lowballing the original deal, I would have no problems giving him more money to share the success even if he isn't entitled to it. But that's just me.

Same, but then we're nice people and wouldn't be in business.

Also after reading the thread it sounds like he's an asshole so maybe not.

potentialtodisplease · Oct 2, 2018

Council Pop said:
They certainly are. Everything they've done in the last few years (from A Serious Man onwards IMO) has been gold.

Yeah. A Serious Man is one of my favorite films to be honest.

Shelbyville Milhouse · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
Well, he deserves something. He created the very thing that made CDPR famous. He made a bad deal back then, but law isn't about "well, serves you right", it's about being fair. And it's fair that the man who created the universe CDPR could never hope to achieve (otherwise they would be making brand new IPs) gets paid for the success he helped achieve. Even if he's an asshole who didn't believe games could make this much money.

He got something. CDP didn't scam him out of the license.
They didn't trick him into asking for so little.

RDreamer · Oct 2, 2018

Chris. said:
You fucked up, you gotta live with it. Simple as that.

Not according to Polish law, it's not.

potentialtodisplease · Oct 2, 2018

Mansally said:
Wow, what in the world kind of deal...? CDP are in a bad situation with this as well and I wouldn't want to be them. How will they look if they don't respond with a settlement offer. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the various parts of the company regarding the goings-on.

Give him 1m and gag order. Done. Never think about it again.

Phellps · Oct 2, 2018

Fantastapotamus said:
He got something. CDP didn't scam him out of the license.
They didn't trick him into asking for so little.

But do you not think what he deserves is also proportional to the success he helped achieve?

Deleted member 41931 · Oct 2, 2018

I was sympathetic with him before, but now he's just trying to be greedy. Sucks, but you made the decision in the first place.

He's starting to sound like Alan Moore.

Shelbyville Milhouse · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
But do you not think what he deserves is also proportional to the success he helped achieve?

Do you think if The Witcher had failed miserably CDP would have been in the right to demand 4500 of their original investment back?
Just in theory, let's not argue about whether CDP would have still been around cause that doesn't matter.

Deleted member 1759 · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
But do you not think what he deserves is also proportional to the success he helped achieve?

He had that option if he had chosen royalties over a one-time payment.

RDreamer · Oct 2, 2018

Starlatine said:
It's ridiculous even taking negotiations MO and settled values into account. One free million because someone feels a contract they signed themselves and refused to negotiate was "harmful and deceitful" is already too much

You're putting quotes around "harmful and deceitful" but that's not in the letter at all.

In fact the letter doesn't even have that sentiment. The letter says that Polish copyright law may be "invoked when the compensation remitted to the author is too low given the benefits obtained in association with the use of that author's work." It also says the original contract may not have encompassed all the games/expansions/merchandising CDPR has done, but neither you nor I have the original contract.

So how is it ridiculous following Polish law to negotiate? That part of the law doesn't allow for "settled values."

It's not a "free million," because whether he signed willingly or not his work is the basis for all of this money CDPR gets, too. Characterizing it as free is just ridiculous.

Falcs · Oct 2, 2018

His books have gotten so much more exposure thanks to the games. I'd say he's already gotten more than he "deserves".
Yes the deal was shit, that's his own fault. Deal with it.

Daniel Westlake · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
But do you not think what he deserves is also proportional to the success he helped achieve?

Of course he doesn't. It's was his job to properly value his IP and make a more appealing agreement, he didn't.

AlexxKidd · Oct 2, 2018

In contrast, Mike Pondsmith is working hand in hand with CDPR to deliver his vision. No video game bias, no dismissive attitude, no lawsuits.

JChung55 · Oct 2, 2018

That's gonna be a no from me dawg. He never believed in the games and never had a good word to say about CDPR. You make a bad bet you live with it.

Arthands · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
But do you not think what he deserves is also proportional to the success he helped achieve?

He already get the amount of money he think those stuffs are worth when he sold 'em.

I mean sure I sure wish Marvel Studios will have full Spider-Man movie right from Sony too, but that's how it works.

If The Witcher game series flopped, is he going to sue them for tarnishing the names of The Witcher brandname?

MegaSackman · Oct 2, 2018

potentialtodisplease said:
It happens a lot, and the people involved apparently have more empathy than a lot of people posting on this board. Kind of pathetic to be honest.

I don't think anyone says hey he deserves a 16m check. But something to soften the blow is fine as long as the guy behaves and is decent about it.

Yes, I think they could settle a fair amount, it'd be just.

Starlatine · Oct 2, 2018

RDreamer said:
It's not a "free million," because whether he signed willingly or not his work is the basis for all of this money CDPR gets, too.

It is ridiculous because he licensed the games for a one time payment on his own accord. And no, his work isn't "the entire basis of CDPR profits" specially considering how they're not faithfully adapting the books but giving its own spin to the story. This is incredibly dismissive with the hard work put on by the devs. Adapting a good story is no guarantee of easy success - LotR media was being produced for as long as Tolkien wrote the first book and yet it took decades till the Jackson adaptations made it truly explode.

But regarding polish law, of course, i will refrain from commenting further because i have no knowledge about it.

Praetorpwj · Oct 2, 2018

He sounds like a real prick. The only reason almost anyone has heard of him and he has a Netflix series is because of CD Projekt. And most of their narrative was original. Hope this doesn't affect any future games however.

Thordawgg · Oct 2, 2018

Guy is an asshole who had already benefited peripherally from CDPRs success and I thought he would be boned but sounds like he might have some sort of case based off the excerpts of Polish law posted here.

Personally I think it would be nice to see him get better compensation than the original deal but I think the success is mostly from the efforts of CDPR not the IP association so I think $16m is too much, will be interesting to see the outcome

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Oct 2, 2018

RDreamer said:
Not according to Polish law, it's not.

Which law in particular provides the author protection in this case against a contract he himself signed and agreed to of his own volition?

Dragoon · Oct 2, 2018

Does he not know how contracts work? He was even offered to take a % instead to make more money by CDPR, but he didn't believe in the game and took the shitty deal. Now he just spends his time shitting on video games, like a bitter old bastard. It would be cool if CD sens him a severance when they don't need to, but I wouldn't blame them not doing it either.

Kudo · Oct 2, 2018

Don't pay him a penny, CDPR.

MegaSackman · Oct 2, 2018

It's like the movie Road to Perdition where after stealing so much money from so many banks, the kid ask his father for some payment, the father asked how much money he wanted and the kid said: "100 dollars", the father said "deal" and handed the money.

After a moment the kid got wondering "hey, would you had paid me more?", the father "we will never know".

I think is only fair that the writter gets more money, a definitive amount based on the success these companies are still having.

Phellps · Oct 2, 2018

Daniel Westlake said:
Of course he doesn't. It's was his job to properly value his IP and make a more appealing agreement, he didn't.

I'm pretty sure he values his IP, he just didn't think games, of all things, would make this much money. Considering where they are from and when the deal was made, I don't think I can fault the man for thinking so.
I'm not saying he deserves all of 16m, mind you, but I do think he deserves more than what he got from the initial deal. And I don't even like the guy.

RenorMirshann · Oct 2, 2018

He shouldn't get anything more, but I bet he will.

RDreamer · Oct 2, 2018

Starlatine said:
It is ridiculous because he licensed the games for a one time payment on his own accord. And no, his work isn't "the entire basis of CDPR profits" specially considering how they're not faithfully adapting the books but giving its own spin to the story. This is incredibly dismissive with the hard work put on by the devs. Adapting a good story is no guarantee of easy success - LotR media was being produced for as long as Tolkien wrote the first book and yet it took decades till the Jackson adaptations made it truly explode.

You're putting words and sentiments into my mouth. Being the basis for all this money doesn't mean CDPR did nothing. They worked their ass off, but they did so on the back of someone else's creative works. I didn't say it was easy success anywhere. But it's also not easy creating something from the ground up. Both CDPR and Sapkowski had a hand in Witcher being as good as it is.

And... are you saying the Jackson adaptations of LOTR are what made it explode? Lord of the Rings was culturally massively popular before they poured the money into those movies. I mean I understand what you'er saying that the movies made it relevant again for a new generation, but to say they made LOTR explode? I dunno that's mischaracterization. LOTR was fucking huge for a while.

Deleted member 37739 · Oct 2, 2018

Have to be honest, I feel like CDPR has contributed a lot more to the global success of his intellectual property than he has to the success of their games. Sapowski might've made a very short-sighted deal when he sold the rights, but I honestly think, in terms of creating a globally recognised intellectual property (that even has it's own Netflix series in the works) he's done very, very well out of deal, even if his cut from actual game sales is less than desirable.

Starlatine · Oct 2, 2018

RDreamer said:
You're putting words and sentiments into my mouth. Being the basis for all this money doesn't mean CDPR did nothing. They worked their ass off, but they did so on the back of someone else's creative works. I didn't say it was easy success anywhere. But it's also not easy creating something from the ground up. Both CDPR and Sapkowski had a hand in Witcher being as good as it is.

And... are you saying the Jackson adaptations of LOTR are what made it explode? Lord of the Rings was culturally massively popular before they poured the money into those movies. I mean I understand what you'er saying that the movies made it relevant again for a new generation, but to say they made LOTR explode? I dunno that's mischaracterization. LOTR was fucking huge for a while.

Something can be popular in its niche and still have a breakthrough moment that not only makes it popular with the new generation but masses as a whole and incredibly profitable on top of that. I'm not claiming LotR was an unknown series of books that the movies put the spotlight on (unlike Witcher) but they helped it achieve mass popularity and brand recognition that decades of being an aclaimed fantasy book series never got it

But if the example is ill suited we can look at GoT then, and how its several videogame adaptations to this day failed to cause even a ripple compared to the tsunami Witcher is despite the source material being as good (if not arguably better) as sapkowski's.

Deleted member 32563 · Oct 2, 2018

Fantastapotamus said:
He got something. CDP didn't scam him out of the license.
They didn't trick him into asking for so little.

Not saying the deal is not his fault but y'all some savages when it comes to video games. I can't imagine if the shoe was on the other foot hypothetically speaking some would be more compassionate. Devs and all...

With no shame I will say those CDPR glasses are a bit rosier than others. The adulation is a bit much.

But you make your bed. You gotta lay in it.

Shoshi · Oct 2, 2018

If the guy is still writing Witcher-books enriching the lore and material they all have something to win in solving the conflict.
Maybe the guy, CDPR and the Polish government would like to build a CDPR/Witcher-team park and they all need to settle things :)

Shelbyville Milhouse · Oct 2, 2018

Mr. Phellps said:
I'm pretty sure he values his IP, he just didn't think games, of all things, would make this much money. Considering where they are from and when the deal was made, I don't think I can fault the man for thinking so.
I'm not saying he deserves all of 16m, mind you, but I do think he deserves more than what he got from the initial deal. And I don't even like the guy.

Yeah, obviously in hindsight it was a bad idea.
But that's how things work. You don't get to demand money because you made a bad call. Explain to me how it is fair to CDP that after 9 years they suddenly have to pay again for a deal they made.

Do you think it would be fair if Epic suddenly retroactively demanded money from everybody using the Unreal engine?

Dynomutt said:
Not saying the deal is not his fault but y'all some savages when it comes to video games. I can't imagine if the shoe was on the other foot hypothetically speaking some would be more compassionate. Devs and all...

With no shame I will say those CDPR glasses are a bit rosier than others. The adulation is a bit much.

But you make your bed. You gotta lay in it.

Dude, I have grown very cold on CDP over the last couple of months. They are in some troubling ways very problematic. This is not about CDP or Sapowski.
I would say the same thing if Disney suddenly wanted more money from EA for the Star Wars deal.

RDreamer · Oct 2, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Which law in particular provides the author protection in this case against a contract he himself signed and agreed to of his own volition?

You can read the demand letter here.

The relevant law:

This is due to the fact that the basis for the claims herein expressed (while not the sole basis, and not the most problematic one – from your perspective) is Art. 44 of the Act on Copyright and Related Rights.

The abovementioned clause is, first and foremost, unconditionally binding (J. Barta, R. Markiewicz,Ustawa o prawie autorskim i prawach pokrewnych (ed.) J. Barta, R. Markiewicz, Warsaw 2003, p. 364), and furthermore it may be invoked when the compensation remitted to the author is too low given the benefits obtained in association with the use of that author's work. Notably, the latter condition is considered fulfilled if the compensation remitted to the author is too low by a factor of at least 2 (T. Targosz [in:] D. Flisak (ed)., Prawo autorskie i prawa pokrewne. Komentarz, Warsaw 2015, p. 685).

Riskbreaker · Oct 2, 2018

Some of you guys are sociopaths.

Pay the man.

Sapkowski (author of The Witcher universe) wants ~16 million USD from CD Projekt

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong

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533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong

User requested account closure

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong

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