Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

RPGamer · Nov 23, 2017

MaskedNdi said:
I'm not boycotting Xenoblade 2. I'm not buying it because I know the way it treats women will make it harder for me to enjoy the game. I'm not going to spend $60 on a game I think I'll have a bad time with.

No one is criticizing real women that show skin. This has nothing to do with what actual women choose to wear. This is about game developers going out of their way to objectify their female characters.

And this issue isn't just about Pyra's outfit. It's about the way the camera ogles Pyra, even in story cutscenes. It's about the game's ridiculous breast physics.

It's about the many hypersexualized Blade designs, some of which look like children:

It's that most of this stuff is unavoidable. I can't put Pyra in armor or control which rare Blades I get. If I play the game, I have to put up with all of this.

And why shouldn't any of this be a dealbreaker? It's an entertainment product

I don't care if Pyra is a 1,000-year-old thong-wearing magical sword who breathes through her skin. There's no in-game explanation that will make me feel better about any of this. Monolith Soft chose to fill their game with pandering, objectifying designs. Some people are going to be alienated by that. If that has a negative impact on their sales, that's their problem, not mine.

The Pyra scene is unnerving, but picked out (not every scene is that bad) and she definitly doesn't look like 12 even with the more chibi design of the game. The other blade design is one of the worst in the game and i definitely will not use every blade.

Its totally fine if it's a dealbreaker to you, that question should everyone answer to him or herself, also i don't think that sales are your problem, i don't even have any fear (for good or worse) the game will sell less because of designs (many are good). I only think it's sad for interested people to miss out on a good game because of some designs are offending, but that of course is their decision and i'm not blaming them. For me the designs of the obligatory characters, NPCs and antagonists (besides some blades) wouldn't be enough to skip a great game especially when some of the more "problematic" things could get a explanation.

ImNotAFroot · Nov 23, 2017

So I've been following the thread since it started and i just saw the Ivy (SoulCalibur) thread and wow, we've still have long ways to go as a community in general.

Deleted member 12009 · Nov 23, 2017

Thekeats said:
As i said its a long time since i hav read it. Something i have been meaning to go back and re-read.

I just remember it being manly men with women fitting in the damsel more than a protagonist. But i view this more a product of the times.

My version of 1.5 should be with me in the next day or so. I love it. I think the problem Kingdom Death has is it has become represented by 2 things. The Wet Nurse and the pin up line. Neither of which are wholly representative of the game.

The wet nurse is just one of the many monsters you face and probably the most sexualised (in a horrific way). The pin up line is designed as a side line not necessarily a repressentation of the game.

youre right. I don't think the wetnurse even has any gameplay.

SolidSnakex · Nov 23, 2017

ImNotAFroot said:
So I've been following the thread since it started and i just saw the Ivy (SoulCalibur) thread and wow, we've still have long ways to go as a community in general.

I'm not sure what you were expecting. Do you think people are just going to suddenly stop liking fanservice all of a sudden? That's literally never going to happen.

Opa-Pa · Nov 23, 2017

SolidSnakex said:
I'm not sure what you were expecting. Do you think people are just going to suddenly stop liking fanservice all of a sudden? That's literally never going to happen.

You can enjoy fanservice and still at the very least acknowledge that designs like Ivy's are straight up tacky and distasteful though, it's bottom of the barrel material as far as sensible female designs go. I sure didn't expect everyone to be against her in that thread but the narrative of some of her defenders are kinda bizarre.

Wzrd · Nov 23, 2017

ImNotAFroot said:
So I've been following the thread since it started and i just saw the Ivy (SoulCalibur) thread and wow, we've still have long ways to go as a community in general.

I came to make the exact same post. It's the same low effort no thought posts like "If you don't like it don't buy it" or "swimsuits exist in real life so skimpy clothing is ok" that entirely miss the point. I'm fucking embarrassed to be male somedays.

UtterlyPerplexed · Nov 23, 2017

That Ivy thread turning out the way it has doesn't surprise me one bit. In fact it's quite an interesting one just to see who has likely visited this very thread and actually had a thorough read of at least the OP, and who likely clearly has not. The posts on the line of "well I for one want MORE fanservice" kind of baffle me, because the Japanese games market is currently so inundated with the stuff already that I cannot fathom how you're not already sated. Then there are posts such as "please don't change her, we need more diversity in character designs, not less", when in reality it's anything but!

Deleted member 32679 · Nov 23, 2017

Wzrd said:
I came to make the exact same post. It's the same low effort no thought posts like "If you don't like it don't buy it" or "swimsuits exist in real life so skimpy clothing is ok" that entirely miss the point. I'm fucking embarrassed to be male somedays.

Personally i wouldn't be embarrassed to be a male, at this point those comments are a given.

Opa-Pa · Nov 23, 2017

What baffles me is the lack of self awareness in some of the stock responses in threads like that, the classic "personally (as a man) it doesn't bother me to see all those big boobies in games, but I understand why some would dislike them", like not shit it doesn't! Reads like a meat eater claiming they're fine with the abundance of beef in the menu to vegetarians asking for more dishes that cater to them lol.

Q_Pippin · Nov 23, 2017

ImNotAFroot said:
So I've been following the thread since it started and i just saw the Ivy (SoulCalibur) thread and wow, we've still have long ways to go as a community in general.

"Everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong"

Look you can like sexy designs, fanservice, advocate for more fanservice/sexualization in your games etc and you can still be a perfectly normal person and have wonderful relationships with the other half of the population in the real world.
but no we are all just creeps/perverts/incels and we all hate women secretly because we were brought up by video games with women in chain bikinis.

SolidSnakex · Nov 23, 2017

Opa-Pa said:
You can enjoy fanservice and still at the very least acknowledge that designs like Ivy's are straight up tacky and distasteful though, it's bottom of the barrel material as far as sensible female designs go. I sure didn't expect everyone to be against her in that thread but the narrative of some of her defenders are kinda bizarre.

And that's not going to happen either. You want people to acknowledge that something they like is associated with something negative. In many ways that's just human nature. Whether it's true or not, you're never going to get most people to say "This design that I really like is tacky and distasteful". Because throughout their whole life they're taught that tacky and distasteful is something bad and something that they shouldn't like.

Opa-Pa · Nov 23, 2017

I definitely realize how natural their response is and how hard is to change someone's mind on stuff like that. Most of the time I feel like it's a waste of time but I like to try because I was similar to them at some point too.

CannonFodder52 · Nov 23, 2017

I'm afraid to open that thread, as I'm in a public place on a laptop.

I can imagine the responses are very bad though.

Q_Pippin said:
"Everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong"

Look you can like sexy designs, fanservice, advocate for more fanservice/sexualization in your games etc and you can still be a perfectly normal person and have wonderful relationships with the other half of the population in the real world.
but no we are all just creeps/perverts/incels and we all hate women secretly because we were brought up by video games with women in chain bikinis.

Huh?

No one is saying that everyone who likes fanservice is a creep. This has actually been discussed a bunch during this thread.

Also, media does influence it's consumers.

Cinemikel · Nov 23, 2017

If only there was a way to send Monolith Soft the message about their Japanese tropes and terrible character designs without having the game fail and risk having lower budgets for future games. It's either this game will succeed and they (hopefully not) see it as "Oh, they like the pandering and ridiculous otaku style! Give them more!"

Or it disappoints and Nintendo goes "Oh these guys are really sinking money with their ambitious titles with little sales. The ratio of budget to revenue is bad. Lets cut down their budget and make smaller games so they can make more money and balance that budget to revenue ratio."

I'm afraid of either of those happening

StoveOven · Nov 23, 2017

Q_Pippin said:
"Everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong"

Look you can like sexy designs, fanservice, advocate for more fanservice/sexualization in your games etc and you can still be a perfectly normal person and have wonderful relationships with the other half of the population in the real world.
but no we are all just creeps/perverts/incels and we all hate women secretly because we were brought up by video games with women in chain bikinis.

Ummm, defensive much?

Cinemikel said:
If only there was a way to send Monolith Soft the message about their Japanese tropes and terrible character designs without having the game fail and risk having lower budgets for future games. It's either this game will succeed and they (hopefully not) see it as "Oh, they like the pandering and ridiculous otaku style! Give them more!"

Or it disappoints and Nintendo goes "Oh these guys are really sinking money with their ambitious titles with little sales. The ratio of budget to revenue is bad. Lets cut down their budget and make smaller games so they can make more money and balance that budget to revenue ratio."

I'm afraid of either of those happening

This is why I think the people who say "Shut up and vote with your wallet" are wrong. The hope is that by voicing these criticisms AND not buying the game, developers see this as an area that needs addressing. Of course, that message is a lot harder to get across when dealing with a studio based in Japan, and it's made even harder by the fact that for the last game people were crying "CENSORSHIP" during the localization process. In other words, the Xenoblade situation is sort of fucked in this regard.

CannonFodder52 · Nov 23, 2017

Cinemikel said:
If only there was a way to send Monolith Soft the message about their Japanese tropes and terrible character designs without having the game fail and risk having lower budgets for future games. It's either this game will succeed and they (hopefully not) see it as "Oh, they like the pandering and ridiculous otaku style! Give them more!"

Or it disappoints and Nintendo goes "Oh these guys are really sinking money with their ambitious titles with little sales. The ratio of budget to revenue is bad. Lets cut down their budget and make smaller games so they can make more money and balance that budget to revenue ratio."

I'm afraid of either of those happening

Honestly, Nintendo is aware that the game has content that's not as well liked in the west.
The NA/EU twitter accounts have avoided showing some of the blades that the JP media has been promoting. (From what I have heard)
I'm sure they also hear what some people from the west have been saying. That said, I think it will probably still sell fine.

spider · Nov 23, 2017

Q_Pippin said:
"Everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong"

Look you can like sexy designs, fanservice, advocate for more fanservice/sexualization in your games etc and you can still be a perfectly normal person and have wonderful relationships with the other half of the population in the real world.
but no we are all just creeps/perverts/incels and we all hate women secretly because we were brought up by video games with women in chain bikinis.

? where did you see this?

loads of women (and pro-women) voices in this thread likes sexy characters like bayonetta, so be easy, no one is blanket-calling people who likes sexy characters as creeps.

TheMango55 · Nov 23, 2017

So I have seen a lot of mention/criticism of boob physics in the thread.

Do people actually not like boob physics? Or do you just think it's unfortunate that this much boob physics is needed due to the character designs?

I haven't noticed too much crazy exaggerated boob physics recently.

Royalan · Nov 23, 2017

Q_Pippin said:
"Everyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong"

Look you can like sexy designs, fanservice, advocate for more fanservice/sexualization in your games etc and you can still be a perfectly normal person and have wonderful relationships with the other half of the population in the real world.
but no we are all just creeps/perverts/incels and we all hate women secretly because we were brought up by video games with women in chain bikinis.

I don't think anybody is saying this, that you can't enjoy sexualized characters.

But when so many characters, specifically female characters, are sexualized, and developers openly comment that they do this to get male gamers interested in this game, I think the criticism that brings from many female gamers is more than fair.

Cinemikel · Nov 23, 2017

TheMango55 said:
So I have seen a lot of mention/criticism of boob physics in the thread.

Do people actually not like boob physics? Or do you just think it's unfortunate that this much boob physics is needed due to the character designs?

I haven't noticed too much crazy exaggerated boob physics recently.

It's comes off as an unneeded element of animation. Unless you're planning on having arms, bellies, and thighs jiggle, it becomes quite apparent what the goals are from the developer. It's not to make it "realistic" that's for sure lol

TheMango55 · Nov 23, 2017

Cinemikel said:
It's comes off as an unneeded element of animation. Unless you're planning on having arms, bellies, and thighs jiggle, it becomes quite apparent what the goals are from the developer. It's not to make it "realistic" that's for sure lol

But we've come a long way from DOA2 when boob physics were the only thing that animated on a character. In most well made games these days those things do jiggle.

julia crawford · Nov 23, 2017

TheMango55 said:
So I have seen a lot of mention/criticism of boob physics in the thread.

Do people actually not like boob physics? Or do you just think it's unfortunate that this much boob physics is needed due to the character designs?

I haven't noticed too much crazy exaggerated boob physics recently.

In ResiHD the boobs bounce so much they look like zero gravity engines strapped to a moving body. It's ridiculous and does nothing but bring superfluous and gratuitous focus on the breasts.

Q_Pippin · Nov 23, 2017

Coxy said:
People love those designs? That's just creepy and weird my friend.

Super creepy

Oh crap my fiancee just walked by I don't want her to get a glimpse of Pyra

CannonFodder52 · Nov 23, 2017

TheMango55 said:
So I have seen a lot of mention/criticism of boob physics in the thread.

Do people actually not like boob physics? Or do you just think it's unfortunate that this much boob physics is needed due to the character designs?

I haven't noticed too much crazy exaggerated boob physics recently.

Uh, from what I hear, a character like Bayonetta can be empowering for some people, but I doubt seeing cartoony or painful looking breast physics is empowering. I could be wrong though.

I feel like you can defend a scantly clad woman, a sexy woman, a lot of stuff in the right context. But it becomes really hard to defend gratuitous bouncing boobs on a soldier.

Q_Pippin said:
Super creepy

Oh crap my fiance just walked by I don't want her to get a glimpse of Pyra

Got'em

Dary · Nov 23, 2017

It's not just the boob physics that's weird, nor the costumes - it's the way half these characters talk about themselves and their bodies. Again, I've seen similar problems crop up in anime. They just never sound like actual, real women? More like a teenage boy's idea of what women should sound like?

You know what I mean: the inevitable busty character will have all this subtext-ridden dialogue about how big her tits are, as if they're a defining personality trait. Ditto for whomever the game decides is "the flattest". It's just really fucking weird.

I mean, a clip I saw recently from XC2 has the inevitable joke about Pyra's weight. Oh look, she's bashful at how much she weighs! Because, you know, living thousand year old sword-spirits would obviously be bashful about their-oh, fuck it, it's just pissing lazy, generic writing and I expected better from them.

Jotakori · Nov 23, 2017

TheMango55 said:
So I have seen a lot of mention/criticism of boob physics in the thread.

Do people actually not like boob physics? Or do you just think it's unfortunate that this much boob physics is needed due to the character designs?

I haven't noticed too much crazy exaggerated boob physics recently.

Boob physics are annoying for several reasons:
1. They're more often than not very obviously added for titillation purposes even if the physics are "natural" - you can tell by how the camera focuses on them, how much they move, how much nothing else moves, etc. When you put this in a game that shouldn't be about titillation it's honestly just kinda obnoxious.
2. Way too often it's a case of, 'wtf is happening on her chest, boobs don't even move like that????' (Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I am so looking at you on this one rn lmao)
3. Boobs bouncing around a ton does not feel good, it actually often hurts. (And that's before getting into things like back pain for women with larger breasts.) Like, you can be half the size the women in these games are and if you attempt to do jumping jacks or even just try running w/o a sports bra on it's extremely uncomfortable, and here they are doing basically friggin' parkour with double d cups and very clearly without breast support.

Xaszatm · Nov 23, 2017

Dary said:
It's not just the boob physics that's weird, nor the costumes - it's the way half these characters talk about themselves and their bodies. Again, I've seen similar problems crop up in anime. They just never sound like actual, real women? More like a teenage boy's idea of what women should sound like?

You know what I mean: the inevitable busty character will have all this subtext-ridden dialogue about how big her tits are, as if they're a defining personality trait. Ditto for whomever the game decides is "the flattest". It's just really fucking weird.

I mean, a clip I saw recently from XC2 has the inevitable joke about Pyra's weight. Oh look, she's bashful at how much she weighs! Because, you know, living thousand year old sword-spirits would obviously be bashful about their-oh, fuck it, it's just pissing lazy, generic writing and I expected better from them.

Yeah, that scene is very...childish, to put it politely. At this point, Morag is the only reason I am buying that game and I'm really on a sliver's edge on that one.

ImNotAFroot said:
So I've been following the thread since it started and i just saw the Ivy (SoulCalibur) thread and wow, we've still have long ways to go as a community in general.

Opa-Pa said:
What baffles me is the lack of self awareness in some of the stock responses in threads like that, the classic "personally (as a man) it doesn't bother me to see all those big boobies in games, but I understand why some would dislike them", like not shit it doesn't! Reads like a meat eater claiming they're fine with the abundance of beef in the menu to vegetarians asking for more dishes that cater to them lol.

Want to know the hilarious thing? It's clearly obvious how little people actually play Soul Caliber in that thread...and it's the one demanding Ivy dress more provocatively. Fun fact, Ivy Valentine's personality and story is at complete odds with her outfit to the point where the only reason why she's in said outfit is because the creators fear backlash for giving her a proper uniform befitting her personality. Ivy despises sex and took a vow of chastity long ago. Her personality is one of a person who will do anything for freedom from Soul Edge's (the evil sword that's Soul Caliber's counterpoint and the bad guy in this series) control, including unethical experimentation, soul manipulation, and wanton slaughter. She is a blue blooded aristocrat who hates being touched, let alone any of the usual "sex" tropes associated with fanservice characters (despite her using a whip sword). And, funniest of all, in the last main game, she moved her soul into an artificial body, effectively becoming sexless because the body was incomplete.

So everyone in that thread screaming about how changing Ivy's outfit would ruin her personality or character...is actually showing how little they actually care about a character because of how badly they want to see sexualized women.

Dary · Nov 23, 2017

Xaszatm said:
Fun fact, Ivy Valentine's personality and story is at complete odds with her outfit to the point where the only reason why she's in said outfit is because the creators fear backlash for giving her a proper uniform befitting her personality.

Reminds me of Persona 5, in a way. That game has a theme about escaping the shackles society puts on you - overcoming the identity others label you with - yet the game itself is seemingly petrified of fan backlash, so does everything by the book - including making the usual sexualised jokes at the expense of a character who endured genuine sexual harassment. Because God knows the consequences if the fans don't get the tit gags and bikini scenes they expect from the game.

RPGamer · Nov 23, 2017

Dary said:
It's not just the boob physics that's weird, nor the costumes - it's the way half these characters talk about themselves and their bodies. Again, I've seen similar problems crop up in anime. They just never sound like actual, real women? More like a teenage boy's idea of what women should sound like?

You know what I mean: the inevitable busty character will have all this subtext-ridden dialogue about how big her tits are, as if they're a defining personality trait. Ditto for whomever the game decides is "the flattest". It's just really fucking weird.

I mean, a clip I saw recently from XC2 has the inevitable joke about Pyra's weight. Oh look, she's bashful at how much she weighs! Because, you know, living thousand year old sword-spirits would obviously be bashful about their-oh, fuck it, it's just pissing lazy, generic writing and I expected better from them.

If you can't take a few jokes the game will give you a hard time (as most JRPGs), i'm curious about the inevitable bathing scene and the reactions. Pyra may be a dangerous weapon, but it's normal they give her human traits, also it seems she lost her memory, she probably doesn't know what happend in the thousand years, so well, she could feel like a teenager.

ShinkuTachi · Nov 23, 2017

Cinemikel said:
If only there was a way to send Monolith Soft the message about their Japanese tropes and terrible character designs without having the game fail and risk having lower budgets for future games. It's either this game will succeed and they (hopefully not) see it as "Oh, they like the pandering and ridiculous otaku style! Give them more!"

Or it disappoints and Nintendo goes "Oh these guys are really sinking money with their ambitious titles with little sales. The ratio of budget to revenue is bad. Lets cut down their budget and make smaller games so they can make more money and balance that budget to revenue ratio."

I'm afraid of either of those happening

I know you and a handful of people here on ERA really don't like Xenoblade 2's character designs; but, Xenoblade 2's character designs are honestly the best character designs in a Monolith Soft game since Xenosaga 3.

Karnova · Nov 23, 2017

Xaszatm said:
Yeah, that scene is very...childish, to put it politely. At this point, Morag is the only reason I am buying that game and I'm really on a sliver's edge on that one.

Want to know the hilarious thing? It's clearly obvious how little people actually play Soul Caliber in that thread...and it's the one demanding Ivy dress more provocatively. Fun fact, Ivy Valentine's personality and story is at complete odds with her outfit to the point where the only reason why she's in said outfit is because the creators fear backlash for giving her a proper uniform befitting her personality. Ivy despises sex and took a vow of chastity long ago. Her personality is one of a person who will do anything for freedom from Soul Edge's (the evil sword that's Soul Caliber's counterpoint and the bad guy in this series) control, including unethical experimentation, soul manipulation, and wanton slaughter. She is a blue blooded aristocrat who hates being touched, let alone any of the usual "sex" tropes associated with fanservice characters (despite her using a whip sword). And, funniest of all, in the last main game, she moved her soul into an artificial body, effectively becoming sexless because the body was incomplete.

So everyone in that thread screaming about how changing Ivy's outfit would ruin her personality or character...is actually showing how little they actually care about a character because of how badly they want to see sexualized women.

Well I think the argument can be made then that Ivy suffers from some major narrative dissonance then. I'm not going to act like an expert on SC, in fact the only Calibur release I sunk hours into was 2 which is now like 13 years ago.

They might have written Ivy as a conservatively fashioned aristocrat but she appears as a sexy sadist in the game. It's not just the costume but it's the mannerisms, the VA, and the move set. I don't think you can divorce that from the character.

She's a Dominatrix just like how Voldo is a damn crazy Gimp monster.

Dice · Nov 23, 2017

Jotakori said:
Boob physics are annoying for several reasons:
1. They're more often than not very obviously added for titillation purposes even if the physics are "natural" - you can tell by how the camera focuses on them, how much they move, how much nothing else moves, etc. When you put this in a game that shouldn't be about titillation it's honestly just kinda obnoxious.
2. Way too often it's a case of, 'wtf is happening on her chest, boobs don't even move like that????' (Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I am so looking at you on this one rn lmao)
3. Boobs bouncing around a ton does not feel good, it actually often hurts. (And that's before getting into things like back pain for women with larger breasts.) Like, you can be half the size the women in these games are and if you attempt to do jumping jacks or even just try running w/o a sports bra on it's extremely uncomfortable, and here they are doing basically friggin' parkour with double d cups and very clearly without breast support.

lol I actually find this upsetting as well. If they're gonna make breast jiggle physics they could at least get it right. xD
But I hate when it's any sudden jerk or new movement (like a grand sweeping gesture like....starting a walk)

even big tits do not move like this. This is jell-o jiggle

Xaszatm said:
Yeah, that scene is very...childish, to put it politely. At this point, Morag is the only reason I am buying that game and I'm really on a sliver's edge on that one.

Want to know the hilarious thing? It's clearly obvious how little people actually play Soul Caliber in that thread...and it's the one demanding Ivy dress more provocatively. Fun fact, Ivy Valentine's personality and story is at complete odds with her outfit to the point where the only reason why she's in said outfit is because the creators fear backlash for giving her a proper uniform befitting her personality. Ivy despises sex and took a vow of chastity long ago. Her personality is one of a person who will do anything for freedom from Soul Edge's (the evil sword that's Soul Caliber's counterpoint and the bad guy in this series) control, including unethical experimentation, soul manipulation, and wanton slaughter. She is a blue blooded aristocrat who hates being touched, let alone any of the usual "sex" tropes associated with fanservice characters (despite her using a whip sword). And, funniest of all, in the last main game, she moved her soul into an artificial body, effectively becoming sexless because the body was incomplete.

So everyone in that thread screaming about how changing Ivy's outfit would ruin her personality or character...is actually showing how little they actually care about a character because of how badly they want to see sexualized women.

Well that's remarkably noble background (her appearance wouldn't really give that away).
Blegh, I already see enough in this topic, not sure I wanna read even more about it.

RPGamer said:
I have some thoughts there: She is a blade and not human, ...

dude, are you trying to say she looks more like a weapon and less like an incredibly busty girl?

Dary · Nov 23, 2017

RPGamer said:
If you can't take a few jokes the game will give you a hard time (as most JRPGs), i'm curious about the inevitable bathing scene and the reactions. Pyra may be a dangerous weapon, but it's normal they give her human traits, also it seems she lost her memory, she probably doesn't know what happend in the thousand years, so well, she could feel like a teenager.

Is it so hard to ask for a writer who can write genuine female characters without relying on juvenile cliches like "she's insecure about her weight!", "ohmygosh my breasts are so much BIGGER than yours! *boing*boing*" and "the girls are sharing a bath guys let's go peeking and OH SHIT LOL WE GOT CAUGHT! PERVY BAKA!!!"?

Mesoian · Nov 23, 2017

RPGamer said:
If you can't take a few jokes the game will give you a hard time (as most JRPGs), i'm curious about the inevitable bathing scene and the reactions. Pyra may be a dangerous weapon, but it's normal they give her human traits, also it seems she lost her memory, she probably doesn't know what happend in the thousand years, so well, she could feel like a teenager.

That's so cliche I feel like I would need a entire bottle of wine to get though her inevitable "please stick with me as I remember my past and also give the player some basis to learn about the past of this world,." Scene.

Like I know your right, and that makes the premise of this game so much more dull.

MaskedNdi · Nov 23, 2017

TheMango55 said:
So I have seen a lot of mention/criticism of boob physics in the thread.

Do people actually not like boob physics? Or do you just think it's unfortunate that this much boob physics is needed due to the character designs?

I haven't noticed too much crazy exaggerated boob physics recently.

It can get pretty bad in fighting games. It looks like it's pretty bad in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 too.

I don't have an issue with realistic boob physics. Most of the time, it's even going to be very noticeable. It's the over the top stuff that bothers me. When breasts bounce around a lot it can actually be really painful; that's why women wear sports bras when they work out. Sometimes crazy boob physics actually hurt to watch.

Dead or Alive 5 lets you adjust the boob physics in the settings. The lowest setting is called "natural."

Coricus · Nov 23, 2017

Pyrofrost said:
I know you and a handful of people here on ERA really don't like Xenoblade 2's character designs; but, Xenoblade 2's character designs are honestly the best character designs in a Monolith Soft game since Xenosaga 3.

It's the most hideously lewd they've gotten with default designs, which combined with the fact that a large chunk of people didn't play the older games kind of piles into that.

But yeah, the other Xenoblade games had character design ranging from passable to boring AND nearly every alt for women was still horrific. If Pyra had actual pants and a proportionally correct chest she'd easily be head and shoulders above every other woman in an Xenoblade title design wise, but they went ahead and gave her airbags and sheer hotpants over panties, and well. . .c'est la vie.

The writing of women has clearly been careening downhill with each respective Xenoblade game, but with that separate subject aside apparently their solution to two games worth of certified dried cardboard designs was to make a game full of legitimately good designs and then ram them into the ground one by one by adding completely unnecessary perverted elements.

ShinkuTachi · Nov 23, 2017

ImNotAFroot said:
So I've been following the thread since it started and i just saw the Ivy (SoulCalibur) thread and wow, we've still have long ways to go as a community in general.

Eh, complaints were always kinda heavy about Ivy's design in Soul Calibur 4 (and rightfully so). Bandai Namco responded with her toned down design in Soul Calibur 5, which honestly is enough. Look at the difference:

They're definitely not going back in the direction of 4 due to the backlash they got; but, I don't expect much of a change in her design after 5 either (as far as covering her even more or further redistribution of her proportions), because it would be unnecessary.

Edit:

Coricus said:
It's the most hideously lewd they've gotten with default designs, which combined with the fact that a large chunk of people didn't play the older games kind of piles into that.

But yeah, the other Xenoblade games had character design ranging from passable to boring AND nearly every alt for women was still horrific. If Pyra had actual pants and a proportionally correct chest she'd easily be head and shoulders above every other woman in an Xenoblade title design wise, but they went ahead and gave her airbags and sheer hotpants over panties, and well. . .c'est la vie.

The writing of women has clearly been careening downhill with each respective Xenoblade game, but with that separate subject aside apparently their solution to two games worth of certified dried cardboard designs was to make a game full of legitimately good designs and then ram them into the ground one by one by adding completely unnecessary perverted elements.

I disagree with most of what you said here, but I respect your right to your opinion.

Xaszatm · Nov 23, 2017

Karnova said:
Well I think the argument can be made then that Ivy suffers from some major narrative dissonance then. I'm not going to act like an expert on SC, in fact the only Calibur release I sunk hours into was 2 which is now like 13 years ago.

They might have written Ivy as a conservatively fashioned aristocrat but she appears as a sexy sadist in the game. It's not just the costume but it's the mannerisms, the VA, and the move set. I don't think you can divorce that from the character.

She's a Dominatrix just like how Voldo is a damn crazy Gimp monster.

Dice said:
Well that's remarkably noble background (her appearance wouldn't really give that away).
Blegh, I already see enough in this topic, not sure I wanna read even more about it.

Oh, I absolutely agree how the design just undermines and contradicts the character and it just shows how visual design plays such an important role in a character. Other fun fact about this game: it takes place in the 16th-17th century. Which makes the increased sexualization of all the characters even more out there because when you see all the background stuff...most of the characters are actually dressed according to the time period except in the actual gameplay itself. That entire series is really a great example of how visual designs can completely undermine any attempt at trying to take your story seriously (which, unlike Tekken, they try).

Dary said:
Reminds me of Persona 5, in a way. That game has a theme about escaping the shackles society puts on you - overcoming the identity others label you with - yet the game itself is seemingly petrified of fan backlash, so does everything by the book - including making the usual sexualised jokes at the expense of a character who endured genuine sexual harassment. Because God knows the consequences if the fans don't get the tit gags and bikini scenes they expect from the game.

That comment on how the director said all the women in the game needed to be cute was really...something to say the least.

Dary · Nov 23, 2017

Xaszatm said:
That comment on how the director said all the women in the game needed to be cute was really...something to say the least.

Liberate yourself from society's shackles! No, not those shackles!! We've got to milk those for all the merchandise they're worth!

Jotakori · Nov 23, 2017

Dice said:
lol I actually find this upsetting as well. If they're gonna make breast jiggle physics they could at least get it right. xD
But I hate when it's any sudden jerk or new movement (like a grand sweeping gesture like....starting a walk)

even big tits do not move like this. This is jell-o jiggle

Ohhhhh my god lmao whaaaatt even is that??? Like, okay not only is that not how boobs work at all, but even if they did work that way their jiggle would still be restrained just by how tight her shirt obviously is. This is so bad, I can't. lol

Xaszatm · Nov 23, 2017

Jotakori said:
Ohhhhh my god lmao whaaaatt even is that??? Like, okay not only is that not how boobs work at all, but even if they did work that way their jiggle would still be restrained just by how tight her shirt obviously is. This is so bad, I can't. lol

Welcome to the "wonderful" world of Senran Kagura. A game that completely revolves around jiggle physics. A game, which in Japan's Nintendo direct, had a "jiggle lab" with the following lovely imagery:

...well...at least he's blatantly honest about it.

Clix · Nov 23, 2017

Opa-Pa said:
You can enjoy fanservice and still at the very least acknowledge that designs like Ivy's are straight up tacky and distasteful though, it's bottom of the barrel material as far as sensible female designs go. I sure didn't expect everyone to be against her in that thread but the narrative of some of her defenders are kinda bizarre.

Unless you don't find it distasteful or tackey. You can't expext everyone to just think or feel the same way.

Jotakori · Nov 23, 2017

Xaszatm said:
Welcome to the "wonderful" world of Senran Kagura. A game that completely revolves around jiggle physics. A game, which in Japan's Nintendo direct, had a "jiggle lab" with the following lovely imagery:

...well...at least he's blatantly honest about it.

lmAO using literal balloons, ah makes sense now.

Opa-Pa · Nov 23, 2017

Clix said:
Unless you don't find it distasteful or tackey. You can't expext everyone to just think or feel the same way.

In normal circumstances sure, but we're talking about this particular design

If someone doesn't find this distasteful and wants to argue that they don't see anything wrong with it without a bit of irony then I'll just move on and avoid further discussion with them.

Dary said:
Liberate yourself from society's shackles! No, not those shackles!! We've got to milk those for all the merchandise they're worth!

This sums up my issues with P5 perfectly lmao.

Clix · Nov 23, 2017

Opa-Pa said:
In normal circumstances sure, but we're talking about this particular design

If someone doesn't find this distasteful and wants to argue that they don't see anything wrong with it without a bit of irony then I'll just move on and avoid further discussion with them.

I mean, everybody is different. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. Is it worth even arguing with someone about it? Everybody is different and you can't expext everyone to share another person's particular values or viewpoints. But I'm not American, so my viewpoints are different when it comes to these type of things.

Bleedorang3 · Nov 23, 2017

Just a side effect of more men making games than women. Women love porn just as much as men y'all.

ShinkuTachi · Nov 23, 2017

Opa-Pa said:
In normal circumstances sure, but we're talking about this particular design

If someone doesn't find this distasteful and wants to argue that they don't see anything wrong with it without a bit of irony then I'll just move on and avoid further discussion with them.

The people who like the Soul Calibur 4 design are definitely a vocal minority. There was pretty big push-back regarding that design (even from people who don't mind fanservice). That's why she was pretty drastically redesigned for 5, as I noted above.

Opa-Pa · Nov 23, 2017

I'm not american nor from a culture that dislikes objectifying women, and even I being a dumb, horny 14 years old at the time who didn't give a damn about these topics noticed how absurd Ivy was in SC2 and how it clearly had no place in a non erotic game, but ok.

Deleted member 24766 · Nov 23, 2017

Ferrs said:
People can boycott whatever they want. People have priorities, and for some , one thing has more weight than another.

Also, about your second paragraph, honestly, anything lore/story wise doesn't excuse designing a sexualized woman. You can add all the lore and words and deed and still the intention would be the same.

This is... no. Just no.

There are most assuredly reasons to excuse designing a sexualized woman in terms of lore/story. Hell, Silent Hill 2 is literally based entirely around this idea as the monsters in Silent Hill are overtly sexualized in design due to Jame's psyche. Also look up Kaine from NieR. Trying to claim that there is *never* a reason is just false. There are amazing things you can do with taboo/odd/perverted subject matter, it all depends on the context of how it is used and the people who write the story.

theprodigy · Nov 23, 2017

lol at "but I'm not American"

Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

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