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The 3DS was a treasure trove of lower budget Japanese games. What happens once it's gone?

Deleted member 3534

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Oct 25, 2017
1,537
You could just look at Atluses output for an example of what I'm talking about. 3 new Etrian Odyssey games and 2 remasters, 2 new Shin Megami Tensei games, 4 remakes/remasters of Megaten spin offs, 2 Persona spin offs, a Radiant Historia remaster. Then you have Square Enix's Dragon Quest 7 remake, DQ8 port, Bravely Default. A mix of other games like Rune Factory 4, 5 Fire Emblems, a bunch of Professor Layton and Ace Attorney games, and the list goes on and on. These are games that wouldn't get made of they needed the budget required to push acceptable graphics in the HD era.

I feel like without an underpowered handheld on the market these kinds of games don't have a home and it makes me worry for the low-mid budget hardcore Japanese game market.

Will these types of games cease to exist as we knew them? Not every game is going to end up being the same success story as Octopatb Traveler. There were game series that spawned several sequels with relatively few copies sold. Are those days over?
 
PK_Wonder

PK_Wonder

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Mar 22, 2018
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Technically just because all that's available is HD consoles doesn't mean your game has to push the limits of the HD console you put it on.
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
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Oct 25, 2017
38,500
Ibis Island
I feel like a good chunk of what you're talking about will have life on the Switch. However, cheaper cart prices and being able to keep that $40 price I think will go a long way.
Right now you can tell the physical side of switch still has some growing pains which is probably impacting things and why we're still seeing 3DS releases instead for these niche games atm.
 
Starlatine

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
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Oct 28, 2017
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atlus apart, the japanese companies are opening up to pc which can more than take these titles with no issues

also, the switch had freaking vroom in the night sky as a surprisingly highly advertised launch window title. i don't think "low-mid budget hardcore japanese games" will have any problem finding a home there either
 
Mr.Deadshot

Mr.Deadshot

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Oct 27, 2017
20,285
eShop, PS4 store and Steam are full of low budget games - I am sure every japanese game will find it's place.
 

Deleted member 8593

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Oct 26, 2017
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Atlus is going to have to think hard about their approach. Many of their "lesser" franchises survived on relatively low 3DS sales thanks to small budgets and there is no single viable alternative to that now.
 
Taka

Taka

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Apr 27, 2018
989
If a market still exists for those games, I don't see why Switch wouldn't still be a good platform for them.

There are any number of ways to avoid breaking the bank on visuals.
 
Bjones

Bjones

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Oct 30, 2017
5,622
Over the last two more so than ever all consoles have been flooded with such games.
 

Deleted member 23212

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Oct 28, 2017
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Well, with HD gaming getting its mainstream appeal in 2005 with the Xbox 360, I'd hope that 13 years of technological advancements means that HD gaming has become much cheaper than it was before for those who want to create niche products. They just need to make sure that they don't expand beyond their viable scope.
 

Imitatio

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Feb 19, 2018
14,560
Switch and Steam will have to take over that segment. Those are the two platforms that are the most viable with Vita and 3DS phasing out.
 

Deleted member 11008

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Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
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Flyhigh Works/Circle Entertainment say hi. Those low or mid tier projects will live as digital games, as same as in the 3DS.
 

Deleted member 5666

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Oct 25, 2017
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Cheaper low budget games seem to have no problem doing well on Switch in the e-shop format. I don't see why not for physical games as well.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 25, 2017
13,616
low budget games get ported to everything nowadays

Romancing saga 3 is coming to every platform
 
Jessie

Jessie

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Oct 27, 2017
9,921
ATLUS will have a plethora of assets from Persona 5 and Shin Megami Tensei V that they can use to make SMT spin-offs. And trust me, they will do so.

Etrian Odyssey will have to start from scratch, but it needed an overhaul anyway.

Level-5 is in the process of moving everything to Switch now. Yokai Watch 4 looks amazing, and significantly better than Pokémon Let's Go.

Bamco is in the process of porting all of their mid-budget Vita/PS4 games to Switch.
 
hyouko

hyouko

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Oct 27, 2017
3,217
It shouldn't take too much more work to get the visuals of a lot of these low-budget games working on HD systems. I have seen plenty of examples already on the Switch, with stuff like Dragon Fang Z. 2D art scales nicely.

3D art is another matter; that will depend on devs' (and audiences') willingness to stomach high image quality but low detail assets and animations. It might push the adoption of more stylized 3D visuals; Killer 7 still looks great in HD...
 
cw_sasuke

cw_sasuke

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Oct 27, 2017
26,400
Switch, PS4, Steam and mobile ...there are plenty of viable plattforms for lower budget titles out there. What do you think indie titles are for the most part ?
 
Narroo

Narroo

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Feb 27, 2018
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Budget hasn't stopped anything from being published on the Switch e-Shop, now has it?
 
DeuceGamer

DeuceGamer

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Oct 27, 2017
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Dardan Sandiego said:
Atlus is going to have to think hard about their approach. Many of their "lesser" franchises survived on relatively low 3DS sales thanks to small budgets and there is no single viable alternative to that now.
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Atlus has a pretty dedicated fanbase so I think they will be fine. I believe the majority of them have/will move on to the Switch.

Obviously, they have to watch their budgets like you mention, but I think their fanbase isn't the type that necessarily expects huge budgets and would still buy a lot of those releases on Switch even if they weren't a huge leap in graphics.

I also think the Atlus fans would shell out $60 for new releases considering several 3DS releases brought $50.
 
Jessie

Jessie

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Oct 27, 2017
9,921
Narroo said:
Budget hasn't stopped anything from being published on the Switch e-Shop, now has it?
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I have no idea what you're talking about. The Switch eShop has no quality issues whatsoever.

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vroom-in-the-night-sky-pic-2.jpg
 
P-MAC

P-MAC

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Nov 15, 2017
4,461
They will hopefully just increase very slightly in budget and graphics and become Octopath Traveller type games. But I mean there's no reason they couldn't come to the Switch, even with the same budget and graphics. Look at Bomberman on Switch, that's not particularly better looking than any 3DS game, definition aside.
 
Dreamboum

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Oct 28, 2017
22,864
P-MAC said:
They will hopefully just increase very slightly in budget and graphics and become Octopath Traveller type games. But I mean there's no reason they couldn't come to the Switch, even with the same budget and graphics. Look at Bomberman on Switch, that's not particularly better looking than any 3DS game, definition aside.
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You greatly underestimate the budget of Octopath.

It doesn't even mean anything, many JRPGs can't work under the visual framework of Octopath
 
Fuchsia

Fuchsia

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Oct 28, 2017
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It seems that games like this can find a home on the switch eShop. Other than that, likely Steam like others have said.
 
P-MAC

P-MAC

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Nov 15, 2017
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Dreamboum said:
You greatly underestimate the budget of Octopath.

It doesn't even mean anything, many JRPGs can't work under the visual framework of Octopath
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You're probably right, I don't know the budget of that game at all, but that was just an example. An Octopath style game with slightly lesser graphics, effects etc could be made at a very low cost. The end product for all intents and purposes was a very high resolution, very high quality 3DS game.

If you're a Japanese developer who is wondering whether to green light a low budget game like the ones we have on 3DS, the only reason not to go ahead on Switch is to wonder whether you would be able to make it good looking enough for Switch owners. Outside of that, there is absolutely nothing to stop you. And even that, games like Bomberman prove it can work even with an absolutely minimal step up graphically. All of the games in the OP could do well on the Switch, with or without making extra use of the hardware. If they didn't make extra use of the hardware, would they even cost any more at all?
 
The Great Khali

The Great Khali

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Oct 30, 2017
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Bomberman, Octopath Traveler, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Ys 8 and SNK Fighters, and etc all seem like low budget games to me. And they can now finally recoup costs by porting to PS4 and PC as well as Switch is a HD system where as porting up from 3DS to a HD system probably was not worth it.
 

citrusred

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Oct 28, 2017
1,964
Pretty sure Rune Factory already had console entries, even one on PS3. Though I don't know how well they did compared to the mainline handheld games.
 
Velezcora

Velezcora

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Nov 16, 2017
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Honestly I think this up to the consumers.
Are you okay with 3DS-level visuals but in HD?
I know I certainly am. But I'm not 100% most consumers are because the comment sections of niche lower budget releases on PS4 are filled with people moaning about it not looking as good Final Fantasy XV.
These people are fans of niche games too but they expect the world from game devs.


Dreamboum said:
You greatly underestimate the budget of Octopath.

It doesn't even mean anything, many JRPGs can't work under the visual framework of Octopath
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Yeah this is my problem with the people complaining about the price of Octopath. They see pixel art and think its akin to $15 indie game but that's not the case.
Octopath pretty much is a AA quality game that just uses pixelart for characters.
 
Piston

Piston

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Oct 25, 2017
11,165
Velezcora said:
Yeah this is my problem with the people complaining about the price of Octopath. They see pixel art and think its akin to $15 indie game but that's not the case.
Octopath pretty much is a AA quality game that just uses pixelart for characters.
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I think the only place Octopath really showed its lack of budget was in dungeon design and a general lack of animation going on for most of the pixel art.

Content-wise, graphically, and orchestrally it had quite a bit of budget put in.
 
Hieroph

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
The 4DS.

I think there will be a retro movement for DS/3DS games at some point, but right now, we're still getting those 3DS games so the best thing you can do is buy them all and then keep playing them when the releases slow down.

Also the print runs are not big so even more reason to snap up those games right away.
 

Nuclear Muffin

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
Switch will be their new home; there is a market for lower priced retail games there. Look at how successful Puyo Puyo Tetris and Super Bomberman R were on there!

A game doesn't have to push the boat out on visuals and production values to be a success there.

Even full priced retail games are getting away with having "simple" visuals; like Pokemon Let's Go, Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate and arguably Octopath Traveller (yes I know that it isn't really "simple" or low budget, but the sprite based visuals are not what you would typically expect from a successful retail title and would very likely have been rejected by the PS4 and Xbone audience).
 
passing breeze

passing breeze

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Apr 9, 2018
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Switch can be that platform, especially once the next gen home consoles come out and carry a greater expectation of 4k visuals.
 

Deleted member 33

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Oct 24, 2017
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Many of the examples you listed are already coming to Switch: Shin Megami, Fire Emblem, Ace Attorney.

Even with your Bravely Default example, Switch just received Octopath Traveler.
 
Atheerios

Atheerios

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Oct 27, 2017
7,098
Switch is the answer. Most of the examples you mentioned will eventually move to Switch.

Just look at the eShop, games on Switch don't need to be AAA to be successful. Switch is friendly to lower budget games. However, as we've seen, to survive among the big competition, lots of franchises are adopting bigger budgets (SMTV, Fire Emblem).
 
dreamlongdead

dreamlongdead

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Nov 5, 2017
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I loved Atlus' output, but I wouldn't exactly call 3DS a treasure trove of Japanese games.

If anything, Switch will greatly expand the options. It's just taking a while, because Switch is still fairly new.
 
Hieroph

Hieroph

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Oct 28, 2017
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dreamlongdead said:
I loved Atlus' output, but I wouldn't exactly call 3DS a treasure trove of Japanese games.
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Okay, so a lot of the best 3DS games are from Nintendo themselves, but you can't deny that a huge part of the third party support comes from Japan. So even if you leave Nintendo out, you've got a massive amount of Japanese games on 3DS.
 

Vault

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Oct 25, 2017
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Hieroph said:
Okay, so a lot of the best 3DS games are from Nintendo themselves, but you can't deny that a huge part of the third party support comes from Japan. So even if you leave Nintendo out, you've got a massive amount of Japanese games on 3DS.
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Compared to the DS and PSP the 3rd party support was disappointing
 
Jeff ChickenDig

Jeff ChickenDig

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yeah, switch ps4 steam all have audiences for not AAA super games.


Honestly these days, ps2 era visuals look fine on ps4 rendered at 4k 60 like kingdom hearts collections.

You can have success on a minimal budget. The competition is tough though.
 
Hieroph

Hieroph

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Oct 28, 2017
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Vault said:
Compared to the DS and PSP the 3rd party support was disappointing
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Well the DS was a complete monster, and PSP sold more WW than 3DS has so far while existing basically solely on third party games. If those are your measuring stick then of course 3DS doesn't have that monster Japanese third party support that won't happen again on any system ever, but it's the next best thing.
 
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