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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
My biggest complaint would be that I do not know what makes your game special? Is it the combat? The story? Or something else? So many indie games are released these days so you have to be very clear what makes your game something extra.

While I understand where you're coming from, and you're right that it's really important to set oneself apart from all the other indie games, both story and (RPG) combat are such hard things to convey in a trailer. Your game could have the best story in the world, but how do you get that across in a trailer a few minutes long? And it's the same with combat; turn-based RPGs don't exactly lend themselves well to being mechanically showcased in a few seconds of footage. :/

I'm now realizing I'm kind of fortunate that my game is an arcade game; you can always get those across in a few seconds...
 

jahasaja

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
793
Sweden
While I understand where you're coming from, and you're right that it's really important to set oneself apart from all the other indie games, both story and (RPG) combat are such hard things to convey in a trailer. Your game could have the best story in the world, but how do you get that across in a trailer a few minutes long? And it's the same with combat; turn-based RPGs don't exactly lend themselves well to being mechanically showcased in a few seconds of footage. :/

I'm now realizing I'm kind of fortunate that my game is an arcade game; you can always get those across in a few seconds...

I agree, it is not easy and I also think it is harder in an jrpg.

The trailer really shows the scope of the world as well as very polished gameplay and graphics which I think is impressive on its own.
 
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Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,152
Thanks a lot for the advice. That said, and I hate to "reject" advice that I know is solid, but much as I'd love to, I cannot afford to make a game-wide animation rework; it would take months of time that I don't have right now. I often come back to animations to improve them as my own skills improve, but right now my primary concern is making the game as fun as possible.

If at some point I find myself in a place that I can afford to revisit all of the playable character's animations to add anticipation, windup and so on, I don't think I need to bother the Rivals of Aether devs, I can just study zoomed-up, slow-motion footage. I did something similar to study the exact way Street Fighter IV does hitstop, for example.

By the way, this reminds me of something I read from Derek Yu (of Spelunky fame). He said that other game developers aren't always the best source of feedback because we focus too much on technical aspects like visuals and animation. Non-devs tend to focus much more on gameplay and rarely give aesthetics advice. It's funny because since I read that, it's matched my experience to a tee, to the point that when I actually want aesthetics criticism from my non-dev testers, I have to extract it nearly at gunpoint. :D
Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I did fall right into that trap.

Much as I try, I can't seem to be able to parse this sentence. :D
I just mean that getting to the upslope on that curve requires far more knowledge and time than I anticipated. It's been like taking a long drive and looking at the clock thinking you're almost there and seeing that you still have 7 hours left to go. And then you look again after what feels like an eternity and you're still 6:40 away.


OK, but keep in mind that publishers tend to prefer getting involved before the game is close to release, as otherwise they don't have the time to market the game. You could also secure funds from them, which might help you finish it. This article was quite eye-opening:
https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/24/the-indiebeat-tips-from-publishers-and-how-to-pitch-to-them/
Yeah, I'm not talking about weeks or even months before, but if I'm fortunate enough to get selected for the SEC and then have an actual successful crowdfunding campaign, I'd like to get all the moving pieces in place and do a dev sprint for a chunk of content and see how long things really take to get done with everything moving full speed ahead, then from that I hash out a much more accurate release window. I just don't want to sign up with someone and end up in dev limbo for an extended period of time, continuously pushing the game back from my initial pitch to them.

Pixelart looks great. Colours could perhaps be a bit more interesting in the fight scene.

My biggest complaint would be that I do not know what makes your game special? Is it the combat? The story? Or something else? So many indie games are released these days so you have to be very clear what makes your game something extra.

Edit: sorry you can ignore my comments did not see you posted the
second final trailer.

No worries, and you're right. Getting across what differentiates the game in a concise manner, especially in something visual like a trailer, has actually something that's always been a big struggle for me.

First off, it's fundamentally Ogre Battle, and I don't think there has been an Ogre Battle or an Ogre Battle-like since Ogre Battle 64. Unfortunately, that game is both super niche and a complete mishmash of genres (seriously, even on Wikipedia the games are listed variously as JRPG, SRPG, TRPG, real-time tactics, and real-time strategy) so I can't really rely on it as a descriptor. Then, on top of that, the combat is sort of like SRPG-style systems laid on a JRPG turn-based combat base. Like Ogre Battle or Final Fantasy Tactics, it's class-based and your enemies are (mostly) all drawing from the same class pool and skills. If you've played Battle Chasers: Nightwar, it actually plays out similar to that in that, in that all of your various parties should be composed of various roles that make the party actually work, except it's across all the classes instead of 6 characters. Then there are a few layers of stuff under that (elements and skills, alignment, formation) and things are already ballooning well beyond concision with just genre and combat alone.

The comment about the colors is a good look, too. It really became apparent to me as I went through the trailer over and over and over. I've gotten better at a lot of stuff when it comes to spriting, but colors are still a weak point for me. I think that between now and whatever the next step is, my focus is going to be getting all my art up to date (including with the palette) and getting an extended gameplay walkthrough together to answer your initial question.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I did fall right into that trap.

It's not really a trap, there's nothing wrong with providing technical advice; it's just two sides of the coin, and both are valuable. And of course, as a dev, I do it all the freaking time :D . There's also the very relevant point that neither of us have played each other's games, so we can't well provide gameplay feedback; aesthetics is all we can comment on.

I just mean that getting to the upslope on that curve requires far more knowledge and time than I anticipated. It's been like taking a long drive and looking at the clock thinking you're almost there and seeing that you still have 7 hours left to go. And then you look again after what feels like an eternity and you're still 6:40 away.

Oh! I see. I agree so freaking much, game dev is the ultimate expression of "miscalculating remaining time / work", even for me, who am used to giving pessimistic or relatively accurate timeframes for most dev work outside games.

Yeah, I'm not talking about weeks or even months before, but if I'm fortunate enough to get selected for the SEC and then have an actual successful crowdfunding campaign, I'd like to get all the moving pieces in place and do a dev sprint for a chunk of content and see how long things really take to get done with everything moving full speed ahead, then from that I hash out a much more accurate release window. I just don't want to sign up with someone and end up in dev limbo for an extended period of time, continuously pushing the game back from my initial pitch to them.

Ah, I see; I thought you were closer to completion. I'll wait patiently for it, even if it takes years. :)

This kind of dovetails into what we were talking earlier in the thread that, from outside, all games "seem complete", and we have no way to judge how much time the dev considers they need to actually finish them. This is doubly so with trailers, of course, but I'm getting "is the game done?" from even people who actually play it, while it's obvious to me it's not nearly there yet. :D
 

jahasaja

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
793
Sweden
If at some point I find myself in a place that I can afford to revisit all of the playable character's animations to add anticipation, windup and so on, I don't think I need to bother the Rivals of Aether devs, I can just study zoomed-up, slow-motion footage. I did something similar to study the exact way Street Fighter IV does hitstop, for example.


Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I did fall right into that trap.


I just mean that getting to the upslope on that curve requires far more knowledge and time than I anticipated. It's been like taking a long drive and looking at the clock thinking you're almost there and seeing that you still have 7 hours left to go. And then you look again after what feels like an eternity and you're still 6:40 away.



Yeah, I'm not talking about weeks or even months before, but if I'm fortunate enough to get selected for the SEC and then have an actual successful crowdfunding campaign, I'd like to get all the moving pieces in place and do a dev sprint for a chunk of content and see how long things really take to get done with everything moving full speed ahead, then from that I hash out a much more accurate release window. I just don't want to sign up with someone and end up in dev limbo for an extended period of time, continuously pushing the game back from my initial pitch to them.



No worries, and you're right. Getting across what differentiates the game in a concise manner, especially in something visual like a trailer, has actually something that's always been a big struggle for me.

First off, it's fundamentally Ogre Battle, and I don't think there has been an Ogre Battle or an Ogre Battle-like since Ogre Battle 64. Unfortunately, that game is both super niche and a complete mishmash of genres (seriously, even on Wikipedia the games are listed variously as JRPG, SRPG, TRPG, real-time tactics, and real-time strategy) so I can't really rely on it as a descriptor. Then, on top of that, the combat is sort of like SRPG-style systems laid on a JRPG turn-based combat base. Like Ogre Battle or Final Fantasy Tactics, it's class-based and your enemies are (mostly) all drawing from the same class pool and skills. If you've played Battle Chasers: Nightwar, it actually plays out similar to that in that, in that all of your various parties should be composed of various roles that make the party actually work, except it's across all the classes instead of 6 characters. Then there are a few layers of stuff under that (elements and skills, alignment, formation) and things are already ballooning well beyond concision with just genre and combat alone.

The comment about the colors is a good look, too. It really became apparent to me as I went through the trailer over and over and over. I've gotten better at a lot of stuff when it comes to spriting, but colors are still a weak point for me. I think that between now and whatever the next step is, my focus is going to be getting all my art up to date (including with the palette) and getting an extended gameplay walkthrough together to answer your initial question.
It seems like you have a lot of unique selling points! Of all the srpg I have played (FFT, FFTA, Ogre battle, FE) none have as advanced and detailed cities as you seem to have. If I understood at the beginning of the trailer that it was a SRPG it would be even more impressive.

Yeah colours are super difficult. I am not good at it myself but I work with some artists who are and it really makes a big difference.
 

Slixshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
701
Why isn't there a section (or thread) of ERA devoted to pimping out your own work and listing your availability to partner with other members on projects or for freelancing artist commissions? I feel like we could set something up similar to the B/S/T thread where members are earn positive and negative reputation so that we can all make informed opinions of who to work with, and this could be a pretty great inclusive group of passionate game devs helping to make some awesome content.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Why isn't there a section (or thread) of ERA devoted to pimping out your own work and listing your availability to partner with other members on projects or for freelancing artist commissions? I feel like we could set something up similar to the B/S/T thread where members are earn positive and negative reputation so that we can all make informed opinions of who to work with, and this could be a pretty great inclusive group of passionate game devs helping to make some awesome content.

"Pimping out our work" seems to directly contradict the rules against self-promotion, which are even stricter than on GAF (e.g. Orioto was able to have his own artwork thread there, but not here).

As for freelance work, I guess the overlap between "ResetEra members", "indie developers" and "people currently looking for a development partner" might be somewhat minuscule, since games tend to take months or years to make (as opposed to buying / selling your stuff). That said, I'm not opposed at all to such a thread being made!
 

Slixshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
701
"Pimping out our work" seems to directly contradict the rules against self-promotion, which are even stricter than on GAF (e.g. Orioto was able to have his own artwork thread there, but not here).

As for freelance work, I guess the overlap between "ResetEra members", "indie developers" and "people currently looking for a development partner" might be somewhat minuscule, since games tend to take months or years to make (as opposed to buying / selling your stuff). That said, I'm not opposed at all to such a thread being made!

Oh wow, I remember Orioto. That's a shame. I really enjoyed his postings of new artwork.

I wonder if there would be a way to limit self-promotion to a single thread and in accordance to certain guidelines. I'm sure there are a good amount of artists on this site and I'd love to see their work in a single thread. It's just quite challenging to find people/sites that I can trust and as someone who spends so much time on here, it would be great to work with the community.
 

Candescence

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,253
A bit late, but I might as well say, Burt, you've got something really cool going on with your game. I can't help but envy the multi-talented folks in this thread and their incredible work.


On another note, I got an email back from Devolver Digital - they unfortunately declined the pitch, saying it didn't fit at Devolver, but they also noted that the project looked promising, which was a good compliment from those folks. There's still a few more folks I'm waiting on, but I'm also working on pitching to other indie pubs as well, though there's a lot of 'em out there now, so it's tricky to figure out which ones best fit my needs. Here's hoping, though.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
A bit late, but I might as well say, Burt, you've got something really cool going on with your game. I can't help but envy the multi-talented folks in this thread and their incredible work.

On another note, I got an email back from Devolver Digital - they unfortunately declined the pitch, saying it didn't fit at Devolver, but they also noted that the project looked promising, which was a good compliment from those folks. There's still a few more folks I'm waiting on, but I'm also working on pitching to other indie pubs as well, though there's a lot of 'em out there now, so it's tricky to figure out which ones best fit my needs. Here's hoping, though.

Sorry to hear about the rejection, but it's true that your game doesn't have much in common with the usual output of Devolver, so you certainly shouldn't take it as an indictment of its quality at all.

I myself am getting ready (logistically and emotionally) to pitch to Devolver, and frankly if they reject it I'm not sure if I'll even pitch it to anyone else: they seem by far the best fit, considering my game is a pixel art arcadey action roguelite. It would be a dream come true to make a game that's published by them... which is why I'm kind of dragging my feet in fear of a potential dream-shattering rejection. :D
 

Nilaul

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,089
Greece
I managed to get my hands on some textures and a model of New Donk City from Mario odyssey. Which I am using as a case study to improve the look of my own models.

What I don't get is how they managed to pull off that light in the window effect, all I see is window textures. I always presumed that it must be two textures, I think the first one is a window with some opacity and the 2nd one is the light behind the window? Which I cant see anywhere.
 
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Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
I've been happy with progress on Horizon Vanguard, lately, and the end is ~vaguely~ in sight, but unfortunately I'm realizing that there's just no way I'm gonna hit my original goal of releasing in December. Nobody's really paying attention to the release date of the game, but it still stings a bit to push it back, lol.
 

Candescence

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,253
Sorry to hear about the rejection, but it's true that your game doesn't have much in common with the usual output of Devolver, so you certainly shouldn't take it as an indictment of its quality at all.

I myself am getting ready (logistically and emotionally) to pitch to Devolver, and frankly if they reject it I'm not sure if I'll even pitch it to anyone else: they seem by far the best fit, considering my game is a pixel art arcadey action roguelite. It would be a dream come true to make a game that's published by them... which is why I'm kind of dragging my feet in fear of a potential dream-shattering rejection. :D
Oh, I totally get it's not really typical of Devolver's output, with the closest game comparable game being The Talos Principle. It was worth a shot, though, and their response was at least positive instead of dismissive.

Don't be too discouraged if they reject you, though, every pub has limitations on resources, so there's probably only so many projects they can take on at once, but I hope you get picked up.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Oh, I totally get it's not really typical of Devolver's output, with the closest game comparable game being The Talos Principle. It was worth a shot, though, and their response was at least positive instead of dismissive.

Don't be too discouraged if they reject you, though, every pub has limitations on resources, so there's probably only so many projects they can take on at once, but I hope you get picked up.

Thank you!
 

TI92

Alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,598
What do you guys use to make sprites? So far I've only ever borrowed sprites from other games or made the most basic ones in MS Paint or whatever. But I want to make my own sprites for my next title.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
What do you guys use to make sprites? So far I've only ever borrowed sprites from other games or made the most basic ones in MS Paint or whatever. But I want to make my own sprites for my next title.

If you mean pixel art, then I 100% recommend Aseprite: pretty much all the functionality you could want in a sprite making software (including animation frames, layers and onion skin). $15 on Steam, with an older free version on their site. For reference, the entirety of Starbound was made on it.
 

TI92

Alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,598
If you mean pixel art, then I 100% recommend Aseprite: pretty much all the functionality you could want in a sprite making software (including animation frames, layers and onion skin). $15 on Steam, with an older free version on their site. For reference, the entirety of Starbound was made on it.
I should say I prefer working in linux but can do windows if necessary. I'll look into this later, probably the free one as a poor student :p
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,654
If you mean pixel art, then I 100% recommend Aseprite: pretty much all the functionality you could want in a sprite making software (including animation frames, layers and onion skin). $15 on Steam, with an older free version on their site. For reference, the entirety of Starbound was made on it.

Hm... as someone who is making sprites for my own game I wonder if I should also do Aseprite. I've been just doing Paint.net on big pages with everything laid out.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,566
So a few notes about this video

1. The assets were purchased, my wife has not had time to start on original asset creation
2. The few glitches you see re: gravity are due to the spheres not correctly selecting the player, there is no id yet for players so they kinda just go for whatever.

That being said I am SUPER happy with how smooth this is all working so far! Using Nobel Whale Match Up and NAT Punch through and my wife was helping me test.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,420
asesprite is great.

if anyone has animation programs with similar functionality for less pixelly programs i'd love to hear it as well
 

Mihai_

Banned
Sep 25, 2018
216
Hi guys,

I'm working on an educational game named Colors on Canvas.
The game has a few game modes allowing you to learn about paintings in a fun way.

I'm using an engine that I'm pretty sure nobody here has ever used: Wintermute Engine. It's very simple to use, though not as flexible as something like Unity.
Anyway, here's a few screenshots:
Tlc2HU.png

Eczvf0.png

I'm in my lunch break right now, so I'll write a bit more after I finish work.
I will also need help from you guys for one of the game modes. Basically, in that game mode, you will choose a painting (out of the 3 available ones) and you'll receive 4 descriptions, out of which only one matching the painting. You'll have to guess the correct description. What I need is some descriptions :D
I'll return with more details. Hope some of you guys would be interested :)
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,152
We launched our Kickstarter earlier today. Check out the gameplay video :)


This looks fantastic, great work

Hey folks,

I've been in read-only mode for a good while now because I've simply had no time or energy to post after work. But now that we're finally launching Deep Sky Derelicts (like right now, so this also serves as a gratuitous plug), I thought I'd do a little writeup on lessons learned - probably nothing new to the more seasoned people here, but maybe it helps someone.
Congrats on getting launched! Just got the email about it off my wishlist this morning -- didn't realize any of you guys were on the forum. Game looks excellent, been waiting for release.
 
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GroundCombo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
203
Hey folks,

I've been in read-only mode for a good while now because I've simply had no time or energy to post after work. But now that we're finally launching Deep Sky Derelicts (like right now, so this also serves as a gratuitous plug), I thought I'd do a little writeup on lessons learned - probably nothing new to the more seasoned people here, but maybe it helps someone.

So we made a demo, pitched it to several publishers and 1C loved it and made a deal with us. We went to early access in November last year and planned to release in June, but it became clear that we had bitten off more than we could chew and the launch had to be postponed. That sucked for morale, but it was the right move. We've had about 4-5 fulltime developers - depending on how you count - plus the CEO/PR Manager, a part-time financial manager and a couple of subcontractors. I've been the lead programmer and basically the only one working with C# in Unity, while another guy has worked mostly on Lua and a little bit of the C# side.

To the lessons:
  • FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HOLY FUCK GET YOUR LOCALIZATION WORKFLOW SORTED. Supporting 7 languages is a colossal pain in the ass and took a huge chunk of time. Some features of a good localization toolset:
    • Generate clean diffs from earlier versions easily.
    • Easy exporting and importing to/from CSV/Excel, with the ability to exclude individual languages. We mostly worked with the LocalizedTextTable objects in the Dialogue System asset (a great Unity asset in general, easy recommendation) with our own additional tools.
    • Include a comment field in your text database. You need to tell the translators that this particular "Credits" means "who made this game" instead of currency, and you want those comments to stay there between import/export rounds.
  • Other localization fun: Remember that punctuation is preceded by a space in French, Diablo-style constructed loot names have to use a different word order in different languages and Chinese fonts need big textures. Not to mention obvious pluralization issues. Basically, don't assume anything and use placeholders for any variable stuff. Instead of "Bleed for 3 damage (2 turns)", use "Bleed for $Damage ($(Turns:turn))". ($(value:word) is our pluralization macro)
  • If you use an embedded script language such as Lua, make sure your interpreter/compiler is up to the task. We started prototyping with the cheapass third-party Lua interpreter included with Dialogue System, and while it works and is enough for dialogue/quest scripting, it had a lot of bugs and was difficult to debug. We use Lua for card scripts and the combat environment can get pretty complicated. By the time I was getting annoyed with it, we were already going public and it was too late to switch. In retrospect I'd probably use something like NLua.
  • Make a lot of tools and document them. I think this went pretty well - I spent a lot of time on card editors, ability editors, custom inspectors, Google sheet (csv) postprocessors to verify references and other things that allowed our designers to add stuff to the game relatively easily. Of course the release mayhem ensured that the docs didn't quite stay up to date and I could have made the tools much more robust.
  • Add a bug reporting tool early. Our first EA releases had a lot of hard-to-track combat bugs (see the Lua item above) resulting in bad reviews, and not many players go to the trouble of posting debug logs. At some point I added a button that used Unity's new bug report service to automatically send a screenshot, the log file, save file and free text. The dialog was also automatically shown for exceptions in combat. That got us a lot of reports and allowed us to nail bugs much faster.
  • You know the thing where something that is a potential issue for later - like, oh I don't know, running out of git repository space and having to migrate - suddenly becomes a real issue? Maybe think about that a bit earlier.
  • Having a publisher is great, but working with them comes with a lot of baggage. There are milestones you have to meet, our artist had to draw a lot of Twitter/FB banners and other custom PR art, and other things. Make sure to have a clear understanding of deliverables - we had a panic moment with one release that required something we were not prepared for.
  • Don't make an RPG with a complicated card combat system, a metric buttload of loot effects and stats, character classes and specialization trees and 80k words as your first serious game. Just don't.
I think the end result is pretty good considering how rocky the early access road was, and I am kind of amazed at how much we managed to scrape together. Now let's see how much firefighting we have to do and what the future looks like. I'd very much like to have my first proper vacation in... I don't even know, three years? I've seen a few people here talking about stress and yeah, it's a serious thing. My head is a complete mess and honestly I don't even want to think about the game at the moment. Hopefully we get enough sales to keep going on, maybe release more content and get to working on something new now that we are Much Wiser. You may laugh now.
 

mikehaggar

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,379
Harrisburg, Pa
Looks and sounds great. Took me right back to my childhood sitting in front of a CRT playing on my Genesis/Mega Drive. I wish you and your team the best of luck for your campaign.

Good to hear. After I update my List, I will also mention again your Kickstarter.
Good Luck.

This looks fantastic, great work

That looks and sounds like proper oldschool. Great style, best of luck to you.

Thanks, everyone! :)
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,152
Thanks, everyone! :)
By the way -- since I know it's awkward bringing points like this up for your own stuff -- but for everyone else reading the thread, if you just throw in a dollar, whether as a reminder for yourself to up the pledge later or solely as a token gesture of support, it helps push the game up in terms of popularity, visibility, and recommendation rankings on Kickstarter and the odds of them highlight the game in a general email, which is a huge help.

So, for anyone reading this, I'm sure the small gesture would be super appreciated.
 

mikehaggar

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,379
Harrisburg, Pa
By the way -- since I know it's awkward bringing points like this up for your own stuff -- but for everyone else reading the thread, if you just throw in a dollar, whether as a reminder for yourself to up the pledge later or solely as a token gesture of support, it helps push the game up in terms of popularity, visibility, and recommendation rankings on Kickstarter and the odds of them highlight the game in a general email, which is a huge help.

So, for anyone reading this, I'm sure the small gesture would be super appreciated.

Thanks, Burt LOL! I really just wanted to share with the forum here. ResetEra is by far my home base on the internet. However, if we get a few more backers as a result that's cool too! :)
 

SweetSark

Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,640
By the way -- since I know it's awkward bringing points like this up for your own stuff -- but for everyone else reading the thread, if you just throw in a dollar, whether as a reminder for yourself to up the pledge later or solely as a token gesture of support, it helps push the game up in terms of popularity, visibility, and recommendation rankings on Kickstarter and the odds of them highlight the game in a general email, which is a huge help.

So, for anyone reading this, I'm sure the small gesture would be super appreciated.

Wait, do you have also a Kickstarter?
I must have totally forgot.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,152

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
I have a question for you guys who change gamma settings in your games, either in dev projects or games you've bought.

Basically, is it normal behaviour for in-game gamma changes to affect hud elements? I tried changing a gamma setting from 0 to 100 just to see what happens, and it feels wrong that I can't see the confirm or return to default buttons anymore xD Gamma at 100 blows out the whiteness and makes everything gray and dull. On the other hand, with zero gamma it kinda makes sense that I can't see anything but it still feels weird that I can't view the 2d background worldmap essentially at all.

I barely ever touch gamma settings so I can't tell if I'm wrong to question this xD
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,420
Hey folks,

I've been in read-only mode for a good while now because I've simply had no time or energy to post after work. But now that we're finally launching Deep Sky Derelicts (like right now, so this also serves as a gratuitous plug), I thought I'd do a little writeup on lessons learned - probably nothing new to the more seasoned people here, but maybe it helps someone.

So we made a demo, pitched it to several publishers and 1C loved it and made a deal with us. We went to early access in November last year and planned to release in June, but it became clear that we had bitten off more than we could chew and the launch had to be postponed. That sucked for morale, but it was the right move. We've had about 4-5 fulltime developers - depending on how you count - plus the CEO/PR Manager, a part-time financial manager and a couple of subcontractors. I've been the lead programmer and basically the only one working with C# in Unity, while another guy has worked mostly on Lua and a little bit of the C# side.

To the lessons:
  • FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HOLY FUCK GET YOUR LOCALIZATION WORKFLOW SORTED. Supporting 7 languages is a colossal pain in the ass and took a huge chunk of time. Some features of a good localization toolset:
    • Generate clean diffs from earlier versions easily.
    • Easy exporting and importing to/from CSV/Excel, with the ability to exclude individual languages. We mostly worked with the LocalizedTextTable objects in the Dialogue System asset (a great Unity asset in general, easy recommendation) with our own additional tools.
    • Include a comment field in your text database. You need to tell the translators that this particular "Credits" means "who made this game" instead of currency, and you want those comments to stay there between import/export rounds.
  • Other localization fun: Remember that punctuation is preceded by a space in French, Diablo-style constructed loot names have to use a different word order in different languages and Chinese fonts need big textures. Not to mention obvious pluralization issues. Basically, don't assume anything and use placeholders for any variable stuff. Instead of "Bleed for 3 damage (2 turns)", use "Bleed for $Damage ($(Turns:turn))". ($(value:word) is our pluralization macro)
  • If you use an embedded script language such as Lua, make sure your interpreter/compiler is up to the task. We started prototyping with the cheapass third-party Lua interpreter included with Dialogue System, and while it works and is enough for dialogue/quest scripting, it had a lot of bugs and was difficult to debug. We use Lua for card scripts and the combat environment can get pretty complicated. By the time I was getting annoyed with it, we were already going public and it was too late to switch. In retrospect I'd probably use something like NLua.
  • Make a lot of tools and document them. I think this went pretty well - I spent a lot of time on card editors, ability editors, custom inspectors, Google sheet (csv) postprocessors to verify references and other things that allowed our designers to add stuff to the game relatively easily. Of course the release mayhem ensured that the docs didn't quite stay up to date and I could have made the tools much more robust.
  • Add a bug reporting tool early. Our first EA releases had a lot of hard-to-track combat bugs (see the Lua item above) resulting in bad reviews, and not many players go to the trouble of posting debug logs. At some point I added a button that used Unity's new bug report service to automatically send a screenshot, the log file, save file and free text. The dialog was also automatically shown for exceptions in combat. That got us a lot of reports and allowed us to nail bugs much faster.
  • You know the thing where something that is a potential issue for later - like, oh I don't know, running out of git repository space and having to migrate - suddenly becomes a real issue? Maybe think about that a bit earlier.
  • Having a publisher is great, but working with them comes with a lot of baggage. There are milestones you have to meet, our artist had to draw a lot of Twitter/FB banners and other custom PR art, and other things. Make sure to have a clear understanding of deliverables - we had a panic moment with one release that required something we were not prepared for.
  • Don't make an RPG with a complicated card combat system, a metric buttload of loot effects and stats, character classes and specialization trees and 80k words as your first serious game. Just don't.
I think the end result is pretty good considering how rocky the early access road was, and I am kind of amazed at how much we managed to scrape together. Now let's see how much firefighting we have to do and what the future looks like. I'd very much like to have my first proper vacation in... I don't even know, three years? I've seen a few people here talking about stress and yeah, it's a serious thing. My head is a complete mess and honestly I don't even want to think about the game at the moment. Hopefully we get enough sales to keep going on, maybe release more content and get to working on something new now that we are Much Wiser. You may laugh now.

This probably deserves to be in the op
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
We launched our Kickstarter earlier today. Check out the gameplay video :)



Backed, looking fantastic.

Hey folks,

I've been in read-only mode for a good while now because I've simply had no time or energy to post after work. But now that we're finally launching Deep Sky Derelicts (like right now, so this also serves as a gratuitous plug), I thought I'd do a little writeup on lessons learned - probably nothing new to the more seasoned people here, but maybe it helps someone.
[...]

This all sounds like good advice (I just dealt with that git repo size issue a month or two ago lol) and Deep Sky Derelicts looks really good, whoa.
 

GroundCombo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
203
Backed, looking fantastic.



This all sounds like good advice (I just dealt with that git repo size issue a month or two ago lol) and Deep Sky Derelicts looks really good, whoa.

Heh, thanks. Trying out various ways to migrate and take LFS into use at the same time was not a fun way to spend an evening. Not quite as bad as I feared though.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,566
Still working on my gravity hook game, recently got it to work across different networks, though it still needs some work. Also working on getting a networked lobby in, which is a bit annoying but oh well. On the plus side, doing networking has forced me to rethink some of my code in a MUCH better way than I was doing before. Still wish there was a better option so I could use both relay servers AND P2P with Unity's new networking system them and Google are coming out with. Really kinda bummed because that has built in Networking and Matchmaking and would have been a fantastic base to start off on, I just can't afford a lot of CCU, but I guess if pricing is right, I can always switch over?
 

SweetSark

Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,640
Still working on my gravity hook game, recently got it to work across different networks, though it still needs some work. Also working on getting a networked lobby in, which is a bit annoying but oh well. On the plus side, doing networking has forced me to rethink some of my code in a MUCH better way than I was doing before. Still wish there was a better option so I could use both relay servers AND P2P with Unity's new networking system them and Google are coming out with. Really kinda bummed because that has built in Networking and Matchmaking and would have been a fantastic base to start off on, I just can't afford a lot of CCU, but I guess if pricing is right, I can always switch over?

Interested to learn were you posted your game if you don't mind.
Can you provide the sources please?
Thank you.
 

MonsterJail

Self requested temp ban
Avenger
Feb 27, 2018
1,338
Was working on my mouse-only platform game over the weekend, a lot of progress on the visual side of it

Made a dithered shadow effect by using a couple of different surface layers (each carefully aligned so the extra pixels would make it darker without overlapping each other. Was initially going to try and go for a completely monochrome game, but settled on a rough 'one colour per layer'

Might try and get this wrapped up into a small spooky themed game in time for Halloween

 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
Still working on my gravity hook game, recently got it to work across different networks, though it still needs some work. Also working on getting a networked lobby in, which is a bit annoying but oh well. On the plus side, doing networking has forced me to rethink some of my code in a MUCH better way than I was doing before. Still wish there was a better option so I could use both relay servers AND P2P with Unity's new networking system them and Google are coming out with. Really kinda bummed because that has built in Networking and Matchmaking and would have been a fantastic base to start off on, I just can't afford a lot of CCU, but I guess if pricing is right, I can always switch over?
Did you buy NAT Traversal? Seems like you bought their other stuff. You can skip Unity's current relay and costs entirely that way, or keep it in as a last resort should your or the dev's dedicated server go down.
 
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