You say it shouldn't be down played yet in your first sentence you did exactly that.
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VG247: Valkyria Chronicles 4’s sexual harassment problem is unacceptable in 2018 (READ OP)
- Thread starter Bundy
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You say it shouldn't be down played yet in your first sentence you did exactly that.
It doesn't read as downplaying; if anything it's saying that western culture and people are more advanced than Japanese people w/regard to sexual harassment
Nah, VC2 and 3 stuck firmly to just "Beach Episode" - In VC2's case it was moreso just "Pool Episode", and VC3 was a grimdark abyss from beginning to end that the main issue with its 'Beach Episode' is how out of place it is.
The problem is that female, for use with humans, is an adjective and it's often used as a noun by men who want to say demeaning or rude things about women. And even then a lot of women find it dehumanizing.
You can say "female character" for instance, as that's describing the character. Or use "the of the two deer, the female lacks antlers" as that's an animal, not a human. But calling a human "female" as a noun is just... don't do it.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/please-stop-referring-to-women-as-females-read-op.55731/
Good thread about it, goes into it deeper and better.
I just don't get it. Its 2018. How can a game dev do this?
I'm glad I only rented this from gamefly. As soon as it arrives, it's going back.
I'm glad I only rented this from gamefly. As soon as it arrives, it's going back.
I find shocking all that glowing reviews not saying a single word about this.
Had no idea this game had this type of content. While the ass grab scene was well handled bc showed the guy being punched in the face and all the comotion with the squad standing on the girl's side, all the other harassments and sexisms were not.
I was buying VC4 but no more. I can't support this kind of gratuitous shit in any media.
Had no idea this game had this type of content. While the ass grab scene was well handled bc showed the guy being punched in the face and all the comotion with the squad standing on the girl's side, all the other harassments and sexisms were not.
I was buying VC4 but no more. I can't support this kind of gratuitous shit in any media.
Never got too far into VC1, doesn't look like I ever will be. Pretty disgusting that Sega would put their stamp of approval on something this vile, you can't excuse that kind of treatment as "just the way that world is!"
It's probably because it's something that is kinda expected, coming from a JRPG these days........... unfortunately.
If you watch the IGN review, the reviewer did mention about the issue. I remember he used the word "crigne."
For anyone interested in the Japanese line for clarity sake:
this has to be the worst "for claritys sake" post in the history of mankind
kudos to the other dude who bothered to translate this jesus
and yeah seems like a localization issue if true, but the same sexist intent is there and the localization is segas responsibility anyway
....how do you not notice you're butt naked in subzero degree temperatures? How do you not remember you're naked considering you were taking a bath moments before? Isn't she supposed to be a genius? I know it's the whole "don't notice you're naked until later on" trope, but in this setting, it just makes her look stupid.
I want to apologize for using the word females incorrectly, though I've never had any student, co-worker, wife, or daughter bring up the fact that female used as a noun is dehumanizing... but I truly stated I sympathize with woman who have to go through this form of treatment in and out of a video game. My heart hurt for this injustice, yet I feel like a bad guy for speaking up and saying the wrong thing.
My Hero Academia is originally a manga tho For teenagers and children of all things.
Wasn't really interested in this game, but man that writing sucks.
Makes me think about my daughters and wonder if they will have to endure this kind of filth and degradation in their real life. The fact that the writers of this game saw this stuff as normal really bothers me.
Makes me think about my daughters and wonder if they will have to endure this kind of filth and degradation in their real life. The fact that the writers of this game saw this stuff as normal really bothers me.
I somehow missed your previous quote, but this reminds me.
Anime, manga, it's just semantics. Both of them share the same culture. So when people say anime, they're refering to the whole anime/manga culture. They also adapt from each other, there are anime adaptation from manga, and vice versa.
If they actually took opportunity to affirm that he's obviously wrong, then he'd stop doing it. If Claude actually berated him as the squad leader - like actually told them to cut it out or else and not the weak "sigh you're at it again huh you deserve the hate" once in a while - and Raz continued to do it, then at least it's clear that he's made not to be liked.
The "endorsement," so to speak, comes from the fact that Raz behavior is framed as this minor character flaw that is fine to continue on with no huge consequences as long as we give him the stink eye once in a while. At least so far.
There's seriously nothing of substance in your post, let alone actually relevant to the thread.
He doesn't stop with the sexism. I suppose he doesn't do the ass-grabbing anymore, but "not sexually assaulting a female coworker" is kinda a low bar.
The game has serious issues in Japanese, but I don't remember any equivalent dialogue to some of what has been posted here, except for the groping scene highlighted in the op.
That wasn't meant to be an apology for the game in any way.
@ Mr. Fantastic
I seriously doubt the original Japanese dialogue had anything quite like that. I'll have to look it up. At a glance it looks like all of Raz' dialogue was further sexualized to give him "character" in English.
I do specifically remember a "no man has an ass this nice" or whatever bs line being in the game.
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if theres anything to learn from this game, if it comes out of an imperial soldiers mouth, it shouldn't come out of yours!:
Oh, for sure, there's LN and anime adaptations. But manga is original for the most part and far bigger than anime which for the most part is just adaption of manga, Light Novel, Visual Novel, games, books and whatever more with less originals compared. Like I said, I'm just being petty since I prefer people giving the credits (yes, even if it's bad) where it's due than to refer to a media where it's almost everything adaptation from other media.
light years
It's not a competition. Different cultures have different blindspots. Talking about them in a forum such as this one can help bridge the gap.
I do agree that this is both a bad look, and also a case of "I wonder if this game would have a similar tone if it was actually written with 2018 in mind."
Not downplaying that this isn't a serious problem in Japan but I can't say I'm surprised. Just watch some modern anime that's not directed to little kids and you see this shit everywhere all the time. The ones that don't are sadly the exception.
I got the western version of the game and I loved, but I agree. That outfit wasn't brought to west to begin with so that tells me they know how bad it is, and yet they still did it. It is so god damn weird.
As for this game, I am really disappointed. I remember back when the hot spring scene was put on YouTube that I said I might still get the game later down the line but not on launch. Now so I am not so sure anymore if I would get it to begin with...
God damn it Sega.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Downplaying sexism; ignoring mod post.
I'll wait until I play the game before I form an opinion on this. A lot of times authors of "outrage articles" will only present information that fits the narrative they want to create and omit anything that may go against it, which is the feeling I'm getting about this based on some of the comments here from people who have (seemingly) played the game.
There are multiple videos and screens posted on the last few pages. It's pretty blatant
I don't really think that this could be used on every case tbh. First example that comes to my mind is Yoko Taro and the entire Drakengard series where he's completely open about the design of the characters and his vision of those games. We have many cases of this as well, be it with Nagoshi and Yakuza with his vision of a series made for older men or Hashino with Persona, Suda51 with Lolipop Chainsaw and others.
Of course the possibility of this happening isn't out of question in some cases but in many of them, it's pretty clear and they're even open about it.
Surely there's a better way to word speaking out against sexism in games as "outrage articles."
I don't know. There ARE people like that out in the world. If the male character has a change of heart, maybe we can say that the devs tried to portrait a misogynist man who eventually comes to respect women?
But if this scene was meant to be funny and sexy, then burn it with fire.
But if this scene was meant to be funny and sexy, then burn it with fire.
It's kinda interesting how that this used to be present in anime targeted to young kids.
This... reminds me of something, fairly recently, actually. Hero Bank, another Sega IP that got an anime adaptation (produced by TMS Entertainment), there's a scene that deals with the kids in the hot springs. When the girls decide to come into where the boys are getting ready to dip into the hot springs, the girls decide to offer a "special service" for them, and it looks like they're off screen stripping for the boys. One of the male leads, ends up having a massive nose bleed in response, but then the scene shifts over and they have relatively "covered" up bathing suits, and the kids look disappointed.
For clarification, these kids are like 8-12, and the scene lead into a sexualized joke of these characters, which there is no pay off, but still. This show aired literally 4 years ago. That's incredibly recent, given the concept.
I really, really, feel sometimes there's a disconnect with the Japanese on this, how this could be a problem. Particularly because of the ages of the characters.
User Banned (A Week): False equivalence + Downplaying sexism.
But if it ok to adress men as 'males'; how is that helping gender equality?
I'm a look at the whole picture kind of person instead of check out these specific things that support my point and ignore everything else.
Surely you can not twist what I said to make it fit what you want it to mean?
Raz' behavior is supposed to be endearing. The game also pushes a romance between the two characters, and is related to a major plot point that just so happens to be some of the worst writing in the genre.
?
It's not downplaying anything. It's just like I said earlier, some people are coming into this and other threads and trying to shit all over Japanese culture rather than looking at the problems within Japanese culture (and perhaps see how they can be solved)... and they aren't helpful. Like there are people saying things like "what's wrong with Japan" without any qualifiers, as if it's inherent to Japan itself rather than an ongoing problem of patriarchy that almost all cultures face and Japan is behind on.
You can specifically look at Japanese problems surrounding gender and depiction of women and say "okay, this is bad and worse than what we typically see over here" and ask "what about Japanese culture might be feeding this, and how can the Japanese progress in that regard?" without making potentially xenophobic/racist statements. Thankfully most people have been avoiding it, but I've seen a couple that are borderline and I only didn't report because I second guess myself in topics about Japan all the time and wonder if it's just my appreciation of the good parts of the culture blinding me.
Again, it's thankfully mostly the case that people actually concerned about misogyny and not just looking to dunk on Japan are posting. But I am interpreting some posts otherwise.
Yeah, or he gets the shit kicked out of him for real, reprimanded by multiple authority figures, and is forced to grow up. But none of the above will happen because ""loveable" pervert" tropes get a free pass to be disgusting to women with nothing more than slight anger at their antics.
That's what I'm asking after a couple of these translation comparisons, it's like they made some of the dialogue more sexist, wtf.
1) It's not an "outrage article". It's a woman noticing sexism in a game she played and musing why it might feature such sexism. It perhaps ignores that #MeToo by and large is an movement that doesn't see a lot of, if any, mention in countries outside of the Anglosphere and Western Europe, but it's still a very legitimate article.
2) There are numerous examples throughout the thread. It's... a lot more egregious than in recent games like Persona 5 or Dragon Quest 11. It's... kinda REALLY bad. Almost shits on the legacy of the original game IMO, just from those snippets. But I mean you can still check out the game, just.... don't be surprised if you're disgusted.
And this just loops back around to what I was saying about anime and games being made by men who don't know how and don't want to learn how to talk to women. The idea any guy who acts like this can get with any woman with a modicum of self-respect is laughable.
Supposing you're being genuine with this. It's not okay to address men as "males", though. Again, for humans, male and female are adjectives. They are only nouns for animals and objects. Thus, using them as nouns for humans is dehumanizing and objectifiying, and it's particularly problematic when you use it with women as women are 100 times more objectified than men already. And, again, you can use male and female as adjectives. "Female gamer" or "male author", for instance.
I added to my thoughts, I often do that after I post. Have a problem with it if you like.
Don't even know I will buy this game. I have not played anything outside the demo of the original game back on PS3. And I bought the remake for PS4. But wow, some of this stuff has no place in 2018. Hope this isn't some weird hill Sega dies on.
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No, it's not the same in every case. Obviously works with high auteur touch would have more unifying vision. But a vast, vast majority of high-budget, high-worker entertainment products are results of compromises and clashing visions.
"Preserving the developer's vision" as a defense is often uttered with no apparent sign that they actually know who the actual brain behind a work is, let alone whether it's actually their vision. Ironically demonstrating that they don't actually care about the developer at all.
Addressing men as "males" is also dehumanizing if not in the appropriate context. However, it's not uncommon that I notice people who use "females" a lot tend to use "men" in conversation, and not "males". I think that's why people tend to address usage of "female" directly.
If you feel that way and you aren't engaging in faux-outrage then you should make it a point to call people out for doing so.
What on earth
How am I downplaying anything
I'm responding to the thought that "Oh its just Japanese culture nbd, don't like it don't buy it"
Aren't you doing the exact same thing? You are also choosing to either acknowledge or dismiss the sexism presented to bolster your own viewpoint. You're treating the videos as if they exist in a vacuum and are not to be critiqued unless you have played the entire game. How can the game actually redeem the sexual harassment and the crass pervy humor as anything but?