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VG247: Valkyria Chronicles 4’s sexual harassment problem is unacceptable in 2018 (READ OP)
- Thread starter Bundy
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*looks at the White House*
. . .
Well, make those Congressional and Presidential terms count.
The women are at least treated as equals in that game, minus the dumb comment from Tora now and then.
I don't know the arc that this character goes through, but the idea that women always get justice in any type of military setting is hilarious. Not saying this game executed this scene well and that he should get away with it because it happens in real life. But there should've at least been some added context there, just comes off as spinny. Yes he was wrong and this perv trope needs to die.
I won't judge till I play it myself and see how they pull off the redemption arc. Hopefully there is more to this character than just being an ass grabbing douche.
Well I will after when I play it and if it indeed does. Upskirt gag was a terribr attempt at humor.
Caveat: only played the demo:
From what I saw the maximum he gets is wearily/jokingly dismissive. Which isn't exactly a rebuke or the seeds for a journey of discovery. Then again, a lot of Japanese writing in this field and in animation is in a bit of a rut. It has tone deaf swings between puerile and attempted mature themes. It is seemingly unable to break away from a core set of tropes in regards to characters and themes. Very few break away from this.
Having said that, VC relatively "light" in its approach. I had to bin off Seven Deadly Sins on Netflix because the lead hero was a ridiculous boob grabbing monster. Still, if something has to take it in the neck to demand a better standard, VC has the profile to make a statement and it also needs to grow up. It's frustrating when games treat us like school boys.
Uh, it's a huge issue even in male-only divisions... male-on-male sexual assault is rampant in the military.
Pretty sure that would only end up working to the favor of the GG crowd.
Everyone knows that women who are victims of sexual harassment/violence automatically feel 100% better after punching their assailant.
I know that when I want historical accuracy, I look for anime fantasy JRPGs featuring female combatants in mini-skirts.
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I don't like fanservice but i can go past it when the game is good.... and i'm not angry.... but still, this trope is fucking tiring! Seeing it everygodamn time, stop already!
Yeah sure he got punched and everyone is cheering the girl, but it's still played like a comedy scene, this is just dumb
i'll still play the game, but i'm still annoyed by this kind of things, it adds absolutely nothing and it's not even funny! Even if the character grow up later, that's fine, but you don't need to make this kind of scene so much on the comedic side...
Yeah sure he got punched and everyone is cheering the girl, but it's still played like a comedy scene, this is just dumb
i'll still play the game, but i'm still annoyed by this kind of things, it adds absolutely nothing and it's not even funny! Even if the character grow up later, that's fine, but you don't need to make this kind of scene so much on the comedic side...
Yes, obviously we are racist for pointing out the misogynist tendencies in Japanese society
All I can say is that it is disgusting this kind of scenes continue happening, especially if they are used as comedy relief.
Thought Sega received the message. I was wrong.
Thought Sega received the message. I was wrong.
If you gonna do this scene, better to use a throwaway dude that can be kicked out of the army.
I never get why people defend this stuff. Like, what do you have to gain from it? It's shitty fanservice/tropes, why care enough to look like an ass defending it?
As for the actual content, I'm not really surprised. Anime has desensitized me to it and I have zero hope in anything changing in anime/anime style games anytime soon.
As for the actual content, I'm not really surprised. Anime has desensitized me to it and I have zero hope in anything changing in anime/anime style games anytime soon.
As much as I find the Sakura games to be real dumb, at least their honest about it. The weak cover that games like this and SNK Heroines try just makes it worse.
It's not just SRPGs, a lot of niche japanese series double down on their dumb otaku fans. DRPGs are probably worse when it comes to awful shit infecting otherwise good games.
It's not just SRPGs, a lot of niche japanese series double down on their dumb otaku fans. DRPGs are probably worse when it comes to awful shit infecting otherwise good games.
The only 100% correct course of action.
(99.9% correct being waiting until people who have completed the game form a concensus on the issue)
Yikes, I have the game in my queue to download after Pathfinder: Kingmaker. I guess I'll cancel it now if that shit is really as prevalent as implied here...
I mean, if the story somehow stops having that shit midway-through that won't make them disappear from the first half or whatever point the OP has reached. Or do you expect characters like Raz to somehow get the punishment they deserve for that shit and for the message that it's wrong to be stated loud and clear?
Bojack Horseman had a great episode this season (Episode 4) about normalizing shit behavior. Seeing this reminds me strongly of it...
Its not a huge stretch for fantasy-alt-ww2, but if you're doing it you're deciding that something that is alternate about this WW2 is attitudes towards women.
Was really surprised by a couple of instances of this in the demo, but assumed it would be quickly addressed in the story of the main game. Super disappointing to hear.
If my preordered copy hasn't already arrived this morning, this would have been enough to justify cancelling it.
If my preordered copy hasn't already arrived this morning, this would have been enough to justify cancelling it.
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I'm surprised they kept this stuff in the game. At least remove it during localization. The people who have to translate this game have to see this stuff and notice there is something disturbing here. I'm all for keeping fanservice in games but this isn't fanservice and could have been removed. Unless there is some morale lesson taught throughout the game about treating people as equals but t this game doesn't look like it has high end storytelling. I never played these Valkyria games even though I own one so I don't know if the past games were like this.
After reading OPs post that just sounds degrading as hell. That shit sounds like something cheesy that would come out of some out-of-touch anime, Japanese devs really need to step up in how they portray women. Can't wait to see the damage control they are going to try posting about it
So, one of the scenes talked about in the OP is in the demo, and it's so like...over the top, it seems like it's telegraphing very vocally that he's going to get his comeuppance SOMEWHERE. Like, it seems like he's supposed to be a reflection piece for people who act like him where you're supposed to go, "man, he's an ass, am I acting like an ass?"
But I don't know, I'll probably start the game tonight. We'll see.
I really wish just once there would be a JRPG where characters could just court one another like normal human beings.
You'd think being in the middle of a massive world war, thousands of miles from home, it would be real easy for two characters to bunk together and get their stress relieved.
Instead it's the usual highschool level of foreplay and harassment. And let me guess, when there are two characters that get serious in this game, they're super reserved and shy about it, right?
You'd think being in the middle of a massive world war, thousands of miles from home, it would be real easy for two characters to bunk together and get their stress relieved.
Instead it's the usual highschool level of foreplay and harassment. And let me guess, when there are two characters that get serious in this game, they're super reserved and shy about it, right?
I love how otaku has now become just a catch all term to mean...Anime and it's fans.
Not, you know what it actually means, but keep on keeping on.
Not, you know what it actually means, but keep on keeping on.
First and foremost, I don't think that sexual harassment has never been okay (not only in 2018), but at the same time I do not know the game, so if it's portrayed in a bad way, than why not have it there. I seriously do not know the game, so I may be wrong in my assumption.
I love how this post was intended as a "gotcha".
As if the local perv getting "comically" clocked with a campy little jingle playing in the background while everyone mostly shrugs it off isn't the most bog standard fucking way you can make light of sexual harassment.
Isn't this the equivalent of GTA though? Your characters do awful things in GTA and in Mortal Kombat as well. Isn't this the same? It's a game character doing something bad, but it's a game.
Edit: Didn't most gamers laugh off people who complained about the acts depicted in GTA? You torture people in GTA V.
Edit: Didn't most gamers laugh off people who complained about the acts depicted in GTA? You torture people in GTA V.
As a matter of principle, I believe this sort of portrayal shouldn't be in the game and thus criticizing that remains entirely legitimate. Even if it is fair to say the Japanese entertainment industry (both mainstream, otaku-based and gaming-related) may be less open and receptive to public criticism of sexism than that of the U.S. or Europe, generally speaking, people still need to speak up and make their voices heard about how women and female characters have been treated.
If nobody says anything, the situation is never going to improve. In fact, it could easily become worse over time.
I do have certain issues with the specific lines of reasoning and arguments found in the VG24/7 article though. I agree that all fiction is subject to political readings and includes a lesser or greater degree of inherent political content, which makes this sort of critical approach both relevant and necessary because what we consume can, one way or another, affect how we think and behave in a number of ways.
However, the person who wrote this piece seems to be working from the standpoint that we already have sufficient evidence of a clear, distinct and undisputedly negative link between offensive videogame content and undesirable social conduct that would lead all the way up to, say, the dangerous #MeToo scenarios that are used as part of the framing device.
I do not think we are at that stage yet. Yes, there may be an influence in some cases, but exactly how much? What factors determine the extent of the influence? Does it correlate with the larger narrative and themes of the game? Is it always a negative influence, or does seeing something bad also fuel a positive impulse, such as the rejection of said behavior if the game punishes the character for it? Does insufficient punishment have the same effect and impact as no punishment or active endorsement?
Those sorts of aspects are, in my opinion, important yet they are taken for granted or not addressed by the article.
Separately, I feel there are confusing and mixed signals regarding how much of Valkyria Chronicles 4 actually provides the type of content that is criticized here. The impression I have been given from other players around here is that there are in fact a couple of situations like this, which shouldn't be in the game, but not that the entire tone is one of harassment. The article basically claims the opposite. Is that accurate to the experience or just a perception?
If nobody says anything, the situation is never going to improve. In fact, it could easily become worse over time.
I do have certain issues with the specific lines of reasoning and arguments found in the VG24/7 article though. I agree that all fiction is subject to political readings and includes a lesser or greater degree of inherent political content, which makes this sort of critical approach both relevant and necessary because what we consume can, one way or another, affect how we think and behave in a number of ways.
However, the person who wrote this piece seems to be working from the standpoint that we already have sufficient evidence of a clear, distinct and undisputedly negative link between offensive videogame content and undesirable social conduct that would lead all the way up to, say, the dangerous #MeToo scenarios that are used as part of the framing device.
I do not think we are at that stage yet. Yes, there may be an influence in some cases, but exactly how much? What factors determine the extent of the influence? Does it correlate with the larger narrative and themes of the game? Is it always a negative influence, or does seeing something bad also fuel a positive impulse, such as the rejection of said behavior if the game punishes the character for it? Does insufficient punishment have the same effect and impact as no punishment or active endorsement?
Those sorts of aspects are, in my opinion, important yet they are taken for granted or not addressed by the article.
Separately, I feel there are confusing and mixed signals regarding how much of Valkyria Chronicles 4 actually provides the type of content that is criticized here. The impression I have been given from other players around here is that there are in fact a couple of situations like this, which shouldn't be in the game, but not that the entire tone is one of harassment. The article basically claims the opposite. Is that accurate to the experience or just a perception?
Ah man, that's gross :(
Perfect. This is the only way a scene like this should go
Perfect. This is the only way a scene like this should go
Gamergates be like:
Keep your politics away from my games
But please, don't forget to include sexual abuse/ harassment or the sjw will win
Keep your politics away from my games
But please, don't forget to include sexual abuse/ harassment or the sjw will win
Gonna just avoid this game like the plague now. Was already leaning towards a heavy no but now it is a definitive no.
Well.... Maybe in today's anime, but it used to be very prominent up until around the 00s. Even InuYasha, which is targeted to kids in Japan, had a main character who had a nasty habit of groping women's butts (and this is coming from a female author, Rumiko Takahashi).
I think networks and stuff in Japan are a bit more mindful of these situations now. Especially since it has caused problems when it was exposed to minors (which isn't a total shocker that happened, really).
Anyways, as for the above stuff, I'll admit, I was kinda surprised to see it be in the game, especially as anime as of late has been slowly moving away from these tropes. Even late night anime doesn't really do these as much anymore (there's a wikipedia article about this and the whole "panty exposure" gag that used to be prevalent, though it's only in Japanese, but it does note about how these gags are no longer acceptable on today's television). Honestly, I was fully expecting the localization to remove these, simply because of the toxic nature of these scenes. Or at least, modify them.
Though, on one hand, I'm glad they didn't remove it, because it brings the issue to discussion and it's absolutely something we do need to discuss. I feel when things got modified in Tokyo Mirage Sessions, it detracted from the actual issue the game represents when it comes to idol culture in Japan (which absolutely needs to be discussed).
I love how the post with "video proof" literally ends in an upskirt gag.
Miss me with that sexist shit.
Miss me with that sexist shit.
why remove it? its portrayed as wrong. like in real life.. the one he harass punched him on screen and fight him out of the screen
and called him degenerate on multiple occasion
the character is a ass in more ways than one (i could spoil if people wants)... it isn't glorified its the freaking opposite
imo as long as its portrayed as a negative its fine on my account.. we cant all get morally good characters no flaws etc
i haven't yet seen how his redeeming arc stands out but im curious on how he plays out
So that's the tone they are going for, that's pretty disappointing.
Unless I'm forgetting something wasn't VC1 pretty good about not doing shit like this too?
Unless I'm forgetting something wasn't VC1 pretty good about not doing shit like this too?
It's all over the place in Japanese games. Recent examples I have encountered: Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Dragon Quest XI, and now Valkyria Chronicles 4. Apparently, Labyrinth of Refrain: Coven of Dusk has the same issue, but I haven't played that one yet, but somebody on ResetEra even said they would be embarrassed to play parts of the game on the bus.
We all have women in our lives that we love (mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, nieces, friends, etc.). This concerns all of us, not just other women. I'm glad somebody is talking about and criticizing it, at last. Thanks VG247.
We all have women in our lives that we love (mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, nieces, friends, etc.). This concerns all of us, not just other women. I'm glad somebody is talking about and criticizing it, at last. Thanks VG247.