Actually there's a lot of difference. The store was designed for apps, not games. It's why literally every >50gb game released there has constant broken downloads for a massive part of the userbase
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Why is the windows store such a piece of sh**?
- Thread starter BladeoftheImmortal
- Start date
I really don't get it either. How do you make a store that you want people to enjoy using and then have it not work and have terrible features? Microsoft clearly has the money. Who's making these decisions? Look at steam, that's how you make a store front. Allow me to verify my files instead of redownloading the ENTIRE thing. It's hugely annoying. You can't even change where apps are installed. It's just horrendous.
The issue that many have/had (including myself) its not a "inaccurate download counter" but an issue on the Windows store that keeps downloading data even when reaches the games download size.
I had this issue on Forza Horizon 3 and still is not resolved for some users as we can see from the complaints of Forza Horizon 4 demo. They will fix this issue now they say with an update. After at least two years.
You could replace "Windows 10" in your post with Windows 7 and post that as a reply to people upset with GFWL in 2009 and it wouldn't be out of place at all.
To be fair, you did mention GFWL. And much of your criticism of the store seems to revolve around their inability to provide you with cheap games.
You still haven't clarified how pricing makes the store 'console-like', but I digress.
Just note that just the same way this guy's experiences with the store don't mirror yours, that's the same way your litany of complaints about the store (pricing, mod support) don't trouble many others either.
Ah, that's a whole different kettle of fish then. I believe the 'shit' description is warranted in this case :)
Not sure why it's taking MS this long to fix this. I think Spencer said a revamp is on the way, but that should be accelerated. You really only get one chance at making an impression.
MS only care about PC gaming when they can use it as a trojan horse to promote one of their other initiatives. When they were trying to introduce paid online via GFWL, they cared. Once that fell through, they immediatelty stopped caring, leaving behind dozens of broken games. Then when they were trying to push adoption rates for a new version of windows, they suddenly cared again... and then stopped.
Now they're trying to get people to buy into the windows store and UWP, so they "care" once again.
The store is shit because they genuinely don't give a fuck.
Now they're trying to get people to buy into the windows store and UWP, so they "care" once again.
The store is shit because they genuinely don't give a fuck.
MS is pretty predictable because it's a public company. I think people say BUILD because what was formerly the Windows org usually has deadlines related to BUILD similar to how gaming has deadlines related to E3. It's just a wishful guess. You can also point to quarters with MS. Lots of projects have quarterly goals and roll out plans to coincide with financial reporting.
A lot of the initiative around Windows Store and UWP was spearheaded by a leader who is no longer at the company. However what's frustrating for most gamers is understanding MS is way more than gaming and it's not the company's first priority.
MS is like a huge battleship so when leadership changes combined with things Satya is pushing, it's like waiting for a huge battleship to turn around. It will most definitely take time.
The store organization is not just over the app you see on windows they are over much much more , the app itself is like 5% of what they are responsible for. Restructuring happens to realign with new priorities which usually comes when new leadership changes.
Obviously MS has data and they can see the performance of the store, unfortunately I have a feeling a game like horizon will show positive trends for store usage and issues some are experiencing will be low pri until it affects a much larger group. PC gamers in particular are often great at problem solving which skews problems a bit. Developers tend to know about the issues but they don't own the decision on what to fix when.
See, why bother fixing the store for the people who are having issues when those who aren't will be dismissive of those who are and paint the picture of everything being fine and dandy?
Unreal.
Unreal.
Yes!
I don't think people realize that architecture changes completely if developers had known this up front lol. I remember the first time we realized this was an issue on Forza.
Updated would redownload the entire app. Fine for what the store was initially made for , very bad for the gigs that made up even a paired down Forza Apex game.
We had to then file an issue with the store org and wait as we don't set their priorities and they were working toward different milestones related to Windows releases not gaming ones.
I wouldn't phrase it like that. Let's just say I like the current situation with competing digital game stores, humble bundles and decent sales without the need of a paid subscription.
In mainland Europe (and many other countries outside the US), console games are significantly more expensive than PC games. Because of Play Anywhere, Microsoft is charging the same prices in the Windows Store than on Xbox console. Forza Horizon 4 and other Microsoft published AAA-games are €70 in the Windows Store, while similar games on Steam are €49.99-€59.99. This makes PA actually a disadvantage for PC gamers without an Xbox, and - according to Jez Corden - this is even the reason why Paradox didn't enable PA for Cities: Skylines.
For the same reason, Microsoft requires a Gold subscription for the best discounts for their games in the Windows Store. In every other games store on PC, deep discounts are available for everyone without the need of a paid subscription.
No doubt about that. It's just ridiculous to say that there are no problems if he doesn't have them. :)
No freaking clue, it's baffling. The UI is trash but the fact that downloads just straight up don't work half the time is infuriating.
The twitch store is pretty awful, I imagine it might be better than that.
I'm just glad that there aren't many MS games I'm interested in, so I don't have to deal with their shitty store.
Downloaded Gears 4 without any problems, though.
Downloaded Gears 4 without any problems, though.
Much worse.
Agreed, Microsoft fixed several bugs. With "making it more attractive for PC gamers" I meant embracing the perks and uses of PC gaming instead of offering a the "walled garden" console experience. That's what the thread I've linked to in that post was all about.
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Most of your thread was wrong then and it's still wrong now. I posted in that thread back then about all the things you were wrong about too.
There's no difference between "apps" and "programs", they're different words for the same thing. The guy I responded to uses the word "app" for Microsoft store games instead of "program" or "game" in an effort to make them sound like they're inherently inferior to other PC programs and games. I'm not talking about how the store handles them.
I'd like to see some stats for this "massive part of the userbase" having problems too.
Stop linking your FUD thread all the time. Almost everything you listed there was either wrong, has been fixed, or was crucifying MS for things that they might do in some hypothetical worst case scenario future.
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And there are still problems with the store. And I don't think they'll get fixed anytime soon or that they are easily fixable. The Microsoft Store is built into Windows 10, which gives some difficulties. But, we've had signals from the Xbox leadership team that they're rethinking their pc strategy. And the current reorganization in the Windows team could lead to change in this regard.
I just hope good developers like Playground aren't victim of terrible corporate policy. Forza Horizon 4 deserves all the audience it can get.
I just hope good developers like Playground aren't victim of terrible corporate policy. Forza Horizon 4 deserves all the audience it can get.
Trouble shooting is terrible/non-existent. With any other launcher you can reinstall, move things around, etc. As the store in so integrated into the OS, not much can be done.
I have no trouble with it now, but when KI first launched there I could not get the store to launch (and I have pretty strong Google skills). I just gave up, since the only solution seemed to be reinstalling windows. The issue solved itself after one of those major updates *shrug*
I have no trouble with it now, but when KI first launched there I could not get the store to launch (and I have pretty strong Google skills). I just gave up, since the only solution seemed to be reinstalling windows. The issue solved itself after one of those major updates *shrug*
A positive experience should have the same value like a negative one. I am not a bad person by stating the store just ... Works for me.
That said, it's obvious there are always scenarios where the Windows Store seems to have problems for certain people. And most people try to help.
Its the biggest adventure of all, trying to make things work in the windows store. Meta gaming
If you go down the path of everything working great its decent, but the second you hit any sort of snag it instantly transports you to the lowest level of hell, and its completely unclear how to fix any problem at all.
If you go down the path of everything working great its decent, but the second you hit any sort of snag it instantly transports you to the lowest level of hell, and its completely unclear how to fix any problem at all.
Doesn't change the fact that the store was designed for apps, not games. This is a fact we literally have someone that worked on Forza PC here confirming this.
The only way PC gaming is going to get treated as it should be would be if there was a specific PC gaming division that were championing what PC gaming actually is (not what Ms would like it to be) and had the autonomy to do things to support that without being beholden to the broader goals of the Xbox division.
they're always rethinking their strategy so they never actually have one.
Well, don't know if that is going to happen
From 25:00 Spencer talks about pc gaming.
''Our early efforts were more console to pc, than respecting the pc audience.''
''So, we've actually slowed down on the progress on our apps and other things. Because we're reworking our pc efforts.''
and more
Source?
Their pc strategy in the past was this halfbaked support for Windows 10. But it was a strategy.
I don't even think the xbox division is necessarily the problem. I think their long term goal is to be able to dip their beak in all windows programs. They're just starting with games, because gamers are easy to manipulate.
Ge0force read my posts then tmarg 's post. You really think you are the target user?
When developing things you have priorities usually tied to business strategy. The Windows store core user scenarios were never built around core gamers.
I get your issues around regional prices and being PC only , and that user scenario is probably at the bottom of the list. Gaming has always been console first, US first at Microsoft. I'm not saying that's great but that's why all advertising around PC is centered on play anywhere.
There is no pc gaming advocate at the company and when dealing with big companies you need that in order to help change the way a company communicates and supports certain initiatives.
Not saying this won't change just saying given the past I'm not holding my breath.
Instead of complaining on forums , complain to the people who own the decisions and are setting priorities.
Your user scenario is valid so tweet Phil. The Windows store just had a sale and I don't think it required gold for the discounts but I may be mistaken and I'm not sure if it was cross region.
When developing things you have priorities usually tied to business strategy. The Windows store core user scenarios were never built around core gamers.
I get your issues around regional prices and being PC only , and that user scenario is probably at the bottom of the list. Gaming has always been console first, US first at Microsoft. I'm not saying that's great but that's why all advertising around PC is centered on play anywhere.
There is no pc gaming advocate at the company and when dealing with big companies you need that in order to help change the way a company communicates and supports certain initiatives.
Not saying this won't change just saying given the past I'm not holding my breath.
Instead of complaining on forums , complain to the people who own the decisions and are setting priorities.
Your user scenario is valid so tweet Phil. The Windows store just had a sale and I don't think it required gold for the discounts but I may be mistaken and I'm not sure if it was cross region.
Stop telling me what to do. And instead of calling my posts FUD, show me PROOF of issues that I've listed in that thread that have been fixed or are wrong. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to derail any topics. I'll be happy to add your information in that post and correct my mistakes. Until you bother to do so, I won't respond to your posts anymore. I'm done arguing about this with Xbox fans who don't care about PC gaming anyway.
Very much this.
When has Forza been on the PC before? It hasn't so tell me again how now is worse than before? You can't, it really is as simple as that. They also have to consider working with the Xbox so of course it's not going to be as open, just like how Fallout is not as open on the PS4. So if you bought any games on Switch or the PS4 then tell me again what your problem is because Microsoft is now putting their Xbox games on the PC which is an option we never really had before outside of very few titles like Age of Empires.
So don't tell me what I should or shouldn't support. I don't see Sony or Nintendo putting their 1st party titles on Steam, EVER. Microsoft also has to consider pricing with Xbox so stop treating Windows like it has to be like Steam. You can't buy Fallout 76 there or Destiny 2 or Battlefield can you but again you put Microsoft store at some sort of higher standard because they make Windows. In fact you can buy Forza Horizon 4 on CD Keys right now for about $15 less than retail so stop lying. But again you won't buy it because you don't want to support Microsoft, that's your problem not mine because I will be enjoying Forza Horizon 4 while you wait for a sale that's already going on.
If you have such a problem supporting Windows PC store then buy an Xbox One and pretend they don't exist on Windows 10. You won't do that either, round and round you go.
Hilarious, you can tell us but nobody can tell you.
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You didn't listen in that very thread when I repeatedly proved half your points wrong, you're not going to start listening now. In there you had things like MS forcing developers to make Win Store versions of their games if they wanted to release on Xbox, all UWP programs being encrypted by default, MS not allowing publishers to have sales on the store, UWP being DRM, and many more that were flat out 100% wrong at the time, let alone now.
Good post. It's basically "here are a bunch of previously console exclusive games now available on PC!", but it's being treated like they were already on PC and are now being taken off steam and being charged 3 times as much for them.
Ge0force legitimately seems like he would be happier if the option of playing gears 4, Halo infinite, Forza 7, Forza horizon 4, etc. On PC wasn't there, which is ridiculous! Preferring not to be able to buy and play a game over being able to just because you can't mod said game against the developers wishes is just crazy. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face at its best.
But the majority of games that Microsoft releases in the Windows Store are core games? Most of their more casual games are being released on Steam as well.
Yeah that's what I think as well. I don't mind their console focus at all, but it shouldn't have a negative impact on PC gaming. I really hope the rumors about MS buying Obsidian (or any other PC focused devs) aren't true.
I already did, several times. Jez Corden was also so kind to confront the MS suits with these issues on E3, but he didn't get any other responses than typical PR talk. I think they just don't care.
The only reason why I'm posting my opinion here and on some PC gaming forums is to make people aware. What they do with this information is up to them. I'm not judging anyone.
The Windows Store does have sales (much worse and less frequent than any other games store on pc tho) but just like on Xbox, the best sales require a Gold subscription. There's full price parity between their store on PC and console.
He's never been clear. One minute he will tell you he's going to get Forza Horizon 4 on the Xbox One rather than support it on the PC but I don't even recall if he even has an Xbox One. Seems like a silly position to put yourself in where your beliefs are so strong that yu'd rather subject yourself to an inferior way to play a game based on principles. The guy appears to have a decent PC rig but won't play games that he would likely enjoy because he can't mod them?
How do you also go from playing games on your PS4 or Switch then turn your PC cap backwards and say now I'm in PC mode and if the game doesn't support mods I won't be buying it?
Allowing the Update Service to use 100% is a great way to cripple your internet connection, by the way. Even worse if you have multiple mchones. There's a reason that cap exists, although it doesn't seem to cap properly if your internet connection is sub-1mbps.
how about have a cheaper pc only version separate from the play anywhere version???
The majority of PC gamers doesn't have an Xbox, so it doesn't make sense to force higher prices to everyone. Why not offering PA at a higher price as an OPTION?
Read the article I've linked.
What I wrote was "The biggest problem is that UWP games are sold as encrypted "apps"". This is a fact. You're making things up.
What? Where did I say that?
That's not in my post...
I've never said that. You're making things up and changing my words all the time. Meanwhile you refuse to give ANY proof that what I actually write is wrong. I'm done talking to you. Have fun on my ignore list dude :)
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Well then maybe whoever designed the store should've put in a separate download speed option not tied to the update service. Just a thought. But please explain the "cripple your internet connection" part. I've had it set to 100% for a while, and my internet speed is working just fine.
Fanboys tend to overuse strawmen in their arguments. Been seeing it a lot in particular threads recently lol. People who act like cultists in defense of a shitty digital storefront are just sad.
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Phil Spencer says a lot of things.
Like... there's a huge list of "easy wins" MS could to to remove pain points from PC gaming. You know, if they were serious about it.
As it is its treated like the Xbox divisions backup plan if console hardware doesn't do so hot.
Don't you think its crazy that I can play more Playstation [n] games on my PC than I can play Xbox [n] games?
The more Xbox hardware is just a locked down PC, the more disincentive there is for them to make PC gaming attractive on its own merits.
Because given the free choice, most people would prefer non-locked down hardware.
Windows considers all updates to be the same, whether they're OS or MS Store.
As for the second part, suppose you have an internet connection that can only do 500kbps. Without any capping Windows 10 will happily saturate the connection so badly eveything else stops working.
They're not forcing higher prices on PC because it's the only way to get the game on pc. You can't go "random game is only $40 on steam but gears 4 is $50 on Microsoft Store, they're charging a higher price!". If Forza horizon 4 is only available on 1 store then there's no "higher price", there's just the price the game costs.
I've already disproven the article you linked - the dev said "if I'm forced to...", but he isn't forced to, so it's a moot point. Is every Xbox game on pc? No? So they clearly aren't forced to release on PC to release on Xbox, are they?
You said that their new format for releasing games (eappx) is default, which it's not. You even admitted in your other thread that you shouldn't have used the words "by default" yet now you're saying you never said it lol.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/4744160/
You said UWP has 5 layers of DRM, but it doesn't. It has whatever DRM developers choose to use, just like steam.
You said developers aren't allowed to put their games on sale when they want to, and that MS control what and how much can go on sale. You said you had proof, then when asked for said proof you said you couldn't find it but you're sure it's true lol.
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My download speed caps out at 25mb/s, so I'm good on that front.
There is nothing wrong with Uplay or Origin, and this is the case for at least 3 years now: fast, stable, stylish, secure.
At worst, you can criticize their layouts or design, but they will always download and play a game for you without fucking it up. Every major release there are guides on reddit how to solve X Y Z problems which plague many Windows Store users, and these problems are cyclical.
What is more, the Xbox part inside the Windows Store is separate from the store itself... Xbox Division would be so much better off just saying fuck-you to the Windows Store division and building their own gaming storefront.