Brad Wardell of Stardock is making legal trouble for the original creators of Star Control (settled)

spman2099 · Sep 23, 2018

Dr Wily said:
Review bombing the new star control doesn't do shit to Brad Wardell. It just makes people who worked on that game have a shitty metascore title on their resumé.
Interesting you bring up Telltale, because reviews for The Wolf Among Us didn't try and 'punish' Telltale for Bill Willingham being a piece of shit and any Fables related media directly supporting him.
GOTG reviews - for film or games - don't shame Marvel for treating Starlin like shit about the characters he created.

Your comparisons are extremely flawed. Every example you are giving is of individuals who are tangentially related to these projects, not the single individual who benefits the most financially, and uses those finances to fund their harassment, and literal assault, of a wide swath of different people. You aren't even close to the mark, Wily. You are miles away.

Your argument is framed around protecting individuals, but it requires enabling extremely toxic companies run by an extremely toxic individual. Hell, their success is more than just the consumers enabling Wardell's shitty behavior, it is effectively empowering him to sink deeper. As I have said before, I hold no ill will towards the people who work at Stardock, but they know who their employer is and they have thrown in their lot with him. The failure of a Stardock game is cause to celebrate. Any loss for Stardock is a win for humanity.

Patrick Klepek · Sep 23, 2018

Adree said:
He's very litigious, so much that a former forum I was a member of that was very much focused on social justice issues had a blanket ban on talking about him. I figure someone like Patrick Klepek could write a really good article outlining his history of being human trash.

I suspect such actions have influenced people to less openly critical, yes.

Tempy · Sep 23, 2018

Dr Wily said:
Review bombing the new star control doesn't do shit to Brad Wardell. It just makes people who worked on that game have a shitty metascore title on their resumé.

Low Metascore games on your resume isn't as important as you'd like to imagine.

DocSeuss · Sep 23, 2018

Dr Wily said:
Review bombing the new star control doesn't do shit to Brad Wardell. It just makes people who worked on that game have a shitty metascore title on their resumé.
Interesting you bring up Telltale, because reviews for The Wolf Among Us didn't try and 'punish' Telltale for Bill Willingham being a piece of shit and any Fables related media directly supporting him.
GOTG reviews - for film or games - don't shame Marvel for treating Starlin like shit about the characters he created.

I did not advocate review bombing, I was referring directly to the statement "throw people's work under the bus."

Patrick Klepek said:
I suspect such actions have influenced people to less openly critical, yes.

They have.

Shaneus · Sep 23, 2018

Dr Wily said:
Review bombing the new star control doesn't do shit to Brad Wardell. It just makes people who worked on that game have a shitty metascore title on their resumé.

Review bombing, you say?

Shaneus said:
Oh, and I was looking at the metacritic user reviews for SC:O, and someone mentioned looking at the 10/10 user ratings for the game, and they were right. Every single 10/10 user rating for the game (with the exception of one, that reviewed Fortnite in May) has done exactly one user review for Metacritic, and it's for SC:O.

Look for yourselves

Review bombing, indeed.

Edit:

Kilrogg said:
For more context, read this (so far short) thread about this screenshot over on the Ur-Quan Masters forum: http://forum.uqm.stack.nl/index.php?topic=7396

Jesus Christ.

Edit #2: Wow.

Elestan said:
Just to note where I think this plays into the case:

Stardock's application to register the "Ur-Quan Masters" trademark has recently been delayed because they have not been able to provide a valid proof of use in commerce.

If Serge had signed this license, Stardock would have been able to claim the availability of UQM downloads as its own use in commerce, and send them in to the trademark office to secure its claim.

Note: Serge is one of the "staff" on the Ur-Quan Masters project.

The Orz · Sep 23, 2018

I'd like to think I'm pretty sensitive to the world of game design and all of its related issues, but "won't someone think of the poor developers" is a poor argument against pointing out the relevant atrocities of said developer's CEO in a review. Wardell isn't just an outspoken figurehead. He's deeply connected with Origins and is the source of much of its baggage.

Shaneus · Sep 23, 2018

Wow. Just, wow.
(from here)

piratepwnsninja · Sep 23, 2018

Shaneus said:
Wow. Just, wow.
(from here)

I need to store an install of UQM somewhere before something really stupid happens.

The Orz · Sep 23, 2018

Shaneus said:
Wow. Just, wow.
(from here)

This is infuriating but...hilarious, too? Can someone explain to me how the fans are harming Fred and Paul. I think I missed something...

falcondoc · Sep 23, 2018

Wow just found out about this. Fucking disgusting stuff.

This is really sad for Toys for Bob.

daegan · Sep 23, 2018

spman2099 said:
the people who work at Stardock, but they know who their employer is and they have thrown in their lot with him.

The only thing I can say about this situation is if those folks can't pay to relocate/find a gig that pays for it, they may be kind of stuck. Stardock is in a suburban/borderline tertiary part of southeast Michigan. It's an area barely close enough to be considered near Detroit; the only restaurant out front of Stardock is a McDonald's; it's just down the road from an empty field where there was a women's prison until recently. Other than car insurance (& ownership cost), MI has a pretty low cost of living. It's entirely possible that some folks may be "stuck" there until either their resume or savings can get them out.

THAT SAID he is still human scum whose company I would personally avoid employment with at all costs given that it is privately held. I have never played Star Control but badly want him to come out of this holding the largest of L's.

Weltall Zero · Sep 23, 2018

It's kind of hilarious, if entirely consistent, to see the saint patron of literal devil advocacy here, keeping true to his villanous username. :D

The Orz said:
This is infuriating but...hilarious, too? Can someone explain to me how the fans are harming Fred and Paul. I think I missed something...

Their argument is that since fans keep insisting that Fred and Paul have the rights to everything in Star Control but the name (which is, you know, the actual truth), then Stardock "has no choice" but basically destroy both them and their fans in self-defense of their own game.

Keep in mind this is either a pathologically self-deluded individual or a wrestling heel that never drops character; someone who actually believes he's making a convincing point when he says of Fred and Paul that "At best, they may have some alien paintings that were assigned to them.". Basic logical consistency need not apply.

The Orz said:
I'd like to think I'm pretty sensitive to the world of game design and all of its related issues, but "won't someone think of the poor developers" is a poor argument against pointing out the relevant atrocities of said developer's CEO in a review. Wardell isn't just an outspoken figurehead. He's deeply connected with Origins and is the source of much of its baggage.

It is a monumentally shitty argument. I can picture them complaining about dismantling drug smuggling rings because "what will these people do to earn a living now". If you work for an profoundly immoral company, the amount of sympathy you're going to get if you have to eventually hit the job classifieds is exceedingly limited, even outside this clear cut case where your company is actually trying to sink an actually legitimate one.

I have to say every time some conversation between Brad and anyone else leaks it's quite hilarious how these others are always trying to rein in his insanity and delusions of grandeur. Working as a lawyer there must be a waking nightmare.

Shaneus · Sep 23, 2018

Weltall Zero said:
Working as a lawyer there must be a waking nightmare.

Or a never-ending payday. Must be on one hell of a retainer.

Vela · Sep 25, 2018

This dude

rawhide · Sep 25, 2018

I'm no fan of Brad but I'm not going to waste my time being mad at a completely unsourced accusation with no evidence. There are plenty of reasons to hate him that are out in the open and thrown in our face every day.

Adree · Sep 25, 2018

rawhide said:
I'm no fan of Brad but I'm not going to waste my time being mad at a completely unsourced accusation with no evidence. There are plenty of reasons to hate him that are out in the open and thrown in our face every day.

Yeah that sounds a bit shaky.

spman2099 · Sep 25, 2018

Adree said:
Yeah that sounds a bit shaky.

It may be something that the HR people try to implement informally so that they don't have to deal with a harassment incident daily...

Deleted member 1055 · Sep 25, 2018

It sounds like complete bullshit to me.

Never mind the lack of a credible source for such an outrageous claim, consider for a moment how utterly impractical such a policy would be for a company the size of Stardock. A company that also lists a woman in a leadership position (page).

spman2099 · Sep 25, 2018

Exzyleph said:
It sounds like complete bullshit to me.

Never mind the lack of a credible source for such an outrageous claim, consider for a moment how utterly impractical such a policy would be for a company the size of Stardock. A company that also lists a woman in a leadership position (page).

I think we all get that it is unlikely, dude. As someone said earlier, it just distracts from the many, many horrible things Wardell has done.

Shaneus · Sep 25, 2018

Yeah, um, that sounds like complete horseshit to me.

I mean, how is he able to harass women if they aren't on the same floor as him? /s

Shaneus · Sep 25, 2018

So, ignoring that complete shit-show of a tweet (which I doubt is in any way true), let's focus on something I discovered just this morning, a 2007 IRC chat with Paul, Fred, artist and alien designer Erol Otus and a few others. Link here

Erol said:
Development pseudo anecdote: I remember feeling extreme joy while painting aliens for SC2, it was one of the the bestest and finest projects I've ever worked on. Paul gave just the right amount of description for me, leaving lots of freedom surrounding the core concepts. It would be great to experience such a thing again... Duh.

So if there's a Ghosts game to ever come out, the artwork would be freaking awesome.

23:06 <+PR3> I have also been working on a plot flow for a new SC game, though it is mostly in disorganized paper notes.
23:06 <@Meep-Eep> Oh, and for those who didn't realise: robot is Fred Ford, PR3 is Paul Reiche III, erol is Erol Otus
23:06 <@Meep-Eep> So what are the prospects for a new SC game?
23:08 <+PR3> We keep pushing on Activision and Atart (former=employer, latter=trademark holder) to let us do a product. So far we have interest but nothing concrete -- which is pretty much the same for the last few years!
23:08 <+tfb-chris> Like the robot said, thanks so much, everyone, for keeping the Star Control flame alive!
23:08 <+robot> Believe it or not, Activision has expressed an interest. But not having all the rights is still a problem.
23:08 <+Kwanger> I think the petition site might be dead but send me an email in support, if you haven't already: alexness at toysforbob.com
23:08 <@Meep-Eep> Isn't the only right missing the trademark?
23:09 <+PR3> One of the more likely prospects is a download-only product for XBox Arcade.
23:09 <@fOSSiL> So we should refrain from asking too much about the potentially upcoming SC game? (not to devulge too much about the plot, etc.) ;)
23:11 <@Meep-Eep> Is there anything else can you tell us about your new game?
23:12 <+PR3> I'd rather not say too much about the plot, except that Fwiffo's general paranoia, greed and lust for fame triggers the initial 'bad event' getting the player moving.

So for those who think they'd be starting from scratch or whatever, I think they'd be able to knock out a storyboard/script or whatever without too much effort. It's their universe, obviously they know how things are going to play out with their characters and universe.

Shaneus · Oct 16, 2018

New news?
Stardock v. P&F updated their complaints yesterday (10/15/18); Stardock claims ownership of Ur-Quan Masters?

They really are flailing now, aren't they?

spman2099 · Oct 16, 2018

Well, hopefully they outright lose this legal battle and P&F are able to counter sue. It would be glorious if that was the end of Stardock.

The Orz · Oct 16, 2018

Shaneus said:
New news?
Stardock v. P&F updated their complaints yesterday (10/15/18); Stardock claims ownership of Ur-Quan Masters?

They really are flailing now, aren't they?

Slash and burn seems like a terrible way to culture a new fan community. I think this makes it pretty clear that Stardock has no qualms separating themselves from us ol' SC2 fogies.

Edit: Sorry, just realized I might need to add context. This is in reference to Stardock taking legal aim at The Ur-Quan Masters.

Shaneus · Oct 18, 2018

I think this might be a big development?

(from Reddit)

Looks like Paul and Fred have all of the contributors to SC2 on the record saying that P&F are the legal Copyright holders.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.320268/gov.uscourts.cand.320268.71.7.pdf

Not sure how recent this is as a development... haven't been following as closely as originally. But if that's the case, it seals up one of the biggest cracks. A lot follows from this:

The team will likely testify in support of P&F's claim that they own all Copyright in SC1+2.

The team will likely (?) testify that P&F are the creators of SC1+2.

There is literally no one else who could claim to have created SC1+2.

This would make "creators of SC2" a more or less incontestable fact.

Claiming to be "the creators of SC2" would be fair use of the Star Control Trademark.

If P&F verifiably own the Copyright, then the UQM project is totally legal.

Which makes UQM a fully legal and continuous use of the aliens since 2002.

Which undermines Stardock's already tenuous Trademark applications in those aliens from this year.

If P&F verifiably own the Copyright, then they arguably control the UQM project.

This control gives P&F a legitimate claim on the UQM mark. (And might be supported by the UQM project leads.)

There's a chance that both sides will have to pay some money. Maybe Stardock will have to pay up for their unauthorized sales of SC1+2. Maybe P&F will have to pay up for referring to SC2 in their GOTP announcement. Those can both be fixed with money.

But on the actual ownership of the IP, really the most important piece of the dispute, it looks like P&F are well on their way to claiming the important territory. Even if Stardock keeps the "Star Control" Trademark, which is still up for debate, Stardock might be so boxed in that they have to start removing some of the infringing material from SC:O.

Seems like it's the big guns to me, getting many of the people who worked on the original SC2 (save for the composers, but it's well known they've kept copyright on their own work for the game) to go on legal record stating P&F should own the copyright for the SC2 content.

It's one hell of a list of people in that linked PDF. Hard for Wardell to argue against, I'd imagine (not that he wouldn't try).

Herr Starr · Oct 18, 2018

Huh, that's promising.

Mashing · Oct 18, 2018

spman2099 said:
Well, hopefully they outright lose this legal battle and P&F are able to counter sue. It would be glorious is that was the end of Stardock.

That's fine, if at least someone is able to acquire their IP (and the people who actually programmed them them). They do make some good games (Gal Civ, Sins, etc...)

Shaneus · Oct 18, 2018

Herr Starr said:
Huh, that's promising.

I think it was a card they always held up their sleeves, guess using it any time other than now would've caused more harm than good somehow.

One other thing that list of people does though, is give me hope that most (if not all) of those people would gladly work on a new game in the SC universe with Paul and Fred.

PS. Some fascinating reading... Dan Nicholson (who composed the vast majority of music for SC2/UQM) runs/ran his own "record label". Interesting looking at people who were members/contributors of the group:

Sander VF · Oct 19, 2018

Vela said:
This dude

Is he afraid of cooties?

doctorcdcs · Oct 23, 2018

Was this already posted here?

not really related, but a cool interview with Reiche and Ford about SC II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgN4Mta86OE

Weltall Zero · Oct 23, 2018

doctorcdcs said:
Was this already posted here?

not really related, but a cool interview with Reiche and Ford about SC II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgN4Mta86OE

That was awesome, thanks for sharing. I keep forgetting these guys also basically invented Toys-to-Life, the humble and matter-of-factly way they mention Skylanders is incredible. I wonder if they could have patented the concept or even any kind of toy / console interaction, imagine how much money they could make off royalties with amiibo alone.

Also great they seem to be doing well legally, I guess they secured funding for the legal fees elsewhere? Their gofundme didn't exactly set the world on fire...

Shaneus · Oct 23, 2018

doctorcdcs said:
Was this already posted here?

not really related, but a cool interview with Reiche and Ford about SC II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgN4Mta86OE

Holy shit, this is great! I wonder if it'll also work in their favour sometime down the line. You just know you'd never see Wardell talk with this much passion or knowledge about SC:O. Ever.

The Orz · Oct 24, 2018

doctorcdcs said:
Was this already posted here?

not really related, but a cool interview with Reiche and Ford about SC II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgN4Mta86OE

I can't quite explain why, but hearing Paul explain the differences in player versus player combat in Star Control and Street Fighter warmed my heart. I think it was a realization that hey, these are just a couple of guys who really do love games.

Also, I, too, have that Boris Vallejo print--though in considerably worse condition. Give me a break, I ordered the thing twenty years ago from some ad that came with the Genesis release of Star Control. It survived my bedroom in high school, my college dorm, and my first apartment largely intact--not too shabby for a paper poster. :)

doctorcdcs · Oct 28, 2018

And suddenly, there's MORE!

6 Degrees of Star Control from Ars Technica

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw_lnnt52EY

edit:

with article:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018...ontrol-2-did-a-ton-of-other-stuff/?comments=1

Shaneus · Nov 27, 2018

We haven't had any juice/gossip or anything for a while, so let's see if I can summarise what's happened with the original (not "official") Star Control subreddit over the last few days:
1. /r/starcontrol NeoRainbow has not been seen online for a while, leaving subreddit unmoderated (not that anyone really noticed, it's pretty tame in general). When this reaches 60 days a subreddit is marked as abandoned, and I guess notifications appear somewhere for requests for mods or something(?).
2. TheAmazingTacoV appears out of nowhere and creates this thread about being the new moderator for /r/starcontrol, despite having no history in the subreddit, only being registered on Reddit for ~5 months and (allegedly) somehow nominated themselves through "official" admin channels. Note the deleted posts, in blue.
3. Various threads created, discussed by regulars and also frustrated with how this came to be.
4. A mod nomination thread is created, with this comment calling out the new mod account as an alt of MindlessMe13, who happens to be *shock* a Stardock employee.
5. All posts by TheAmazingTacoV in /r/starcontrol are deleted.

So while I don't think there's any specific proof (at least, none that's been posted anywhere I can see), the sudden deletion of all the posts Taco made in /r/starcontrol are basically an admission of guilt.

More reading:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcontrol/comments/a0xziy/you_win/eal9env/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcontrol/comments/a0xziy/you_win/ealeq6h/

As for Taco, their writing was compared to that of mindless. Their reactions, when questioned, had arguably identical language and their behavior, when their identity is questioned, is EXACTLY identical. Even in cases, where it's impossible to prove, they freak out the same way.

Edit: Here is the original request for Taco/MindlessMe13 to become mod of /r/starcontrol. Nothing fishy at all. Nope.

*frumple*

Deleted member 3058 · Nov 27, 2018

So some likely sockpuppet thought they could takeover the subreddit and control the discussion heavy-handedly and everyone would just go along with it?

Shaneus · Nov 27, 2018

Gattsu25 said:
So some likely sockpuppet thought they could takeover the subreddit and control the discussion heavy-handedly and everyone would just go along with it?

Either control the discussion or claim ownership of the subreddit, pass it over to Stardock somehow and then they can claim ownership of it.

I'm guessing the latter, given how they tried to pull a swift one on the UQM forums for trademarking. The former doesn't really play into the hands of Stardock at all, certainly not in any legal or sales capacity (IMO).

Weltall Zero · Nov 29, 2018

In other unfortunate news, Humble Bundle is currently offering a Stardock software bundle:
https://www.humblebundle.com/software/stardock-software-bundle
I'm going to assume unawareness on Humble's part, which could be remedied by contacting them; I'm going to do that right now.

PCPace · Nov 29, 2018

Star control
Star control
You're in legal trouble

Star control
Star control
They'll sue you on the double

No suit too big no suit too small
Star control - hold your payroll

piratepwnsninja · Nov 29, 2018

PCPace said:
Star control
Star control
You're in legal trouble

Star control
Star control
They'll sue you on the double

No suit too big no suit too small
Star control - hold your payroll

You must have kids, too.

Shaneus · Dec 29, 2018

Update! Via the Star Control subreddit
Stardock's motion for preliminary injunction has been denied (dated 27th Dec 2018)

I love these bits, extracts posted in the subreddit:

In view of the foregoing, the harm Plaintiff complains of is indeed of its own making. Plaintiff had knowledge of Defendants' copyright claims from the outset. Despite that knowledge, it developed potentially infringing material without resolution of the IP ownership issues, and then publicized the release of that material during the pendency of this action. It now claims that its investment in Origins and reputation are on the line. Given that Plaintiff largely created the foregoing predicament, the Court is disinclined to extricate Plaintiff from a peril of its own making.

Many of the parties' objections are frivolous. For example, Plaintiff objects to Reiche's declaration, "I created the concept for the Star Control computer game," on the ground that it lacks foundation. Dkt. 66-12 at 2. Clearly Reiche has personal knowledge as to what he did or did not create. See Fed.R. Evid. 602 (a witness's own testimony may support a finding that he has personal knowledge of the matter to which he testifies). On the other hand, the merit of other objections is obvious. For example, Defendants object to Wardell's declaration, "Stardock has not incorporated any copyrightable artwork from Star Control I, Star Control II, or Star Control III into the Origins game itself," on the ground that Wardell lacks the expertise necessary to opine as to what constitutes "copyrightable artwork." Dkt. 64-26 at 2-3. Indeed, not only has Wardell failed to establish any such expertise, but his opinion as to whether the work in question is "copyrightable" constitutes an improper legal conclusion. See United State v. Diaz, 876 F.3d 1194, 1197 (9th Cir. 2017) (citing Fed. R. Evid. 704). Such legal conclusions are without evidentiary value.

So fucking delicious. It gives me life.

HK-47 · Dec 29, 2018

Good shit

piratepwnsninja · Dec 29, 2018

Shaneus said:
Update! Via the Star Control subreddit
Stardock's motion for preliminary injunction has been denied (dated 27th Dec 2018)

I love these bits, extracts posted in the subreddit:

So fucking delicious. It gives me life.

This is a great late Christmas gift.

Adree · Dec 29, 2018

That's great news! I clicked this thread expecting the worst too.

Herr Starr · Dec 29, 2018

Awesome! This is a great way to end the year for sure. :)

I particularly like how the judge smacks down Wardell personally, basically telling him: "Shut up! You have no idea what you're talking about."

Shaneus · Dec 29, 2018

You're welcome, everyone! It put a smile on my face as well when I read the post, I think the court document will provide endless entertainment until the next update :)

Vyrance · Dec 29, 2018

Great news!

spman2099 · Dec 29, 2018

Santa Clause came through!

Thrill_house · Dec 29, 2018

Whew glad to see that update. This entire situation has been a fascinating rollercoaster lol

Deleted member 82 · Dec 29, 2018

It's a Christmas miracle! Music to my ears.

Brad Wardell of Stardock is making legal trouble for the original creators of Star Control (settled)

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