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Mbolibombo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,043
Tried DS for the first time yesterday and came to the conclusion that it's just not for me.

Game is too slow and clunky for me, but maybe I shouldnt have played Hollow Knight just prior to this one :P Hard to enjoy many games after that heh.
 

yumayuma

Member
Feb 23, 2018
195
Also in the real game you can unlock another bonfire near the church with a blacksmith, or unlock the shortcut back to firelink. Either way it makes trying to fight the gargoyles again much easier. The gauntlet of enemies you get stuck fighting in the demo is NOT the norm!

That's good to hear. At that point, I got the notion there should be a checkpoint. I am interested in buying, but the demo makes the game design seem like NES game design without checkpoints. Starting at the level again countless times, learning everything by heart until you get sick of it. Guess I won't beat the Gargoyle, then.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
A series that had 3 entries (5 if we include spiritual succesors) that sold millions (the last one being the best seller) and inspired almost a new genre with multiple devs trying to copy it's gameplay and structure... is liked/bought by a vocal minority. You can't make this shit up lol.
 

60fps

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
3,492
I firstly approached Dark Souls as a pure Metroidvania, often running away from enemies (I'm not really interested in combact and chracter builds) but that's not how the game should be played - unfortunately, but still.
That's an interesting statement; I never read something like this about Dark Souls. But I agree. Sometimes I just like to inhale the world a game has to offer. Dark Souls' world looks, sounds and feels so great, unfortunately all you do in it is fight (against very hard enemies at that).

The somewhat clunky controls and enemies being able to track your movement during attacks doesn't make it better.

I even think Dark Souls' world would be fun to travel through without any enemies at all. And that's quite a feat.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,661
Hamburg, Germany
It's very optimistic to call this version "Remastered", it doesn't really look much different from the original version. Which is fine, but yeah, 40 bucks is quite an ask for that.

I'll get it anyway, but still.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
It's very optimistic to call this version "Remastered", it doesn't really look much different from the original version. Which is fine, but yeah, 40 bucks is quite an ask for that.

I'll get it anyway, but still.

Actually I think it looks quite a bit better. The resolution is much better for starters, and the lighting and shading on some of the materials looks a lot better than I remember too.

I'd be curious to see someone putting together a side by side comparison, I think a lot of people are remembering the original looking and running a lot better than it did.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,381


Looking at this, seems like good old Fromsoft frame pacing made it in again. And the video creator says in the comments that the resolution is dynamic as well. I'm not bothered by resolution, but the frame pacing is really annoying at this point. How can they not fix it in a port of a 7 year old game?
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,209
I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere in the thread--I haven't read all 12 pages--but is it not possible to level up in the network test? When I go to the bonfire, I only see options to kindle it and to reverse hollowing. Am I missing something?
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,661
Hamburg, Germany
Actually I think it looks quite a bit better. The resolution is much better for starters, and the lighting and shading on some of the materials looks a lot better than I remember too.

I'd be curious to see someone putting together a side by side comparison, I think a lot of people are remembering the original looking and running a lot better than it did.
Only checked it out on portable, so I can't say much about the resolution, I am very happy with how it runs though. Still, it "only" looks like a great port to me after all, not a "Remaster".
 
Jul 20, 2018
2,684
Everybody is saying this is a network test and not a demo, which is true, but it is also exactly the same as the demo build for the orginal game presented at conventions. This was the intended demo experience even when the only Souls game people had played was Demon's.
 

Ceadeus

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
600
The test demo is simply not working for me. Anyone elle having this issue?

I bought a year of Nintendo online and everything is fine on my end. I think it is Server issue?
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,661
Hamburg, Germany
Everybody is saying this is a network test and not a demo, which is true, but it is also exactly the same as the demo build for the orginal game presented at conventions. This was the intended demo experience even when the only Souls game people had played was Demon's.
I mean, except there's probably quite some strain on servers and stuff due to concentrated network testing with a huge audience cramped into one part of the game.
 

Duffking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,705
It really fucking bugs me they've never done anything about how roll input buffering works. If you roll on like, the same frame you get hit, then you get hit. That's fair, but for some fucking reason basically all of these games also take that to mean "as soon as you recover from the hit, roll". It drives me up the wall sometimes.
 

burgerdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,196


Looking at this, seems like good old Fromsoft frame pacing made it in again. And the video creator says in the comments that the resolution is dynamic as well. I'm not bothered by resolution, but the frame pacing is really annoying at this point. How can they not fix it in a port of a 7 year old game?


Good ol Fromsoft didn't even work on this game. The frame pacing must be a deep rooted engine issue.
 

ragingbegal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
795
That's good to hear. At that point, I got the notion there should be a checkpoint. I am interested in buying, but the demo makes the game design seem like NES game design without checkpoints. Starting at the level again countless times, learning everything by heart until you get sick of it. Guess I won't beat the Gargoyle, then.
In the full game you are never very far from a bonfire, even if you don't realize it.

The test demo is simply not working for me. Anyone elle having this issue?

I bought a year of Nintendo online and everything is fine on my end. I think it is Server issue?
It is only available at certain times.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I'll never be able to wrap my mind around why people love this game so much. I get most people don't, it's mainly a hardcore, vocal minority on the internet.

Dark Souls is a multimillion seller franchise, so the bolded is objectively wrong.

But still. It's dark, drab, kind of ugly, awkward, slow, clunky,

Its combat is slow, weighty and methodical, where each blow counts. This makes it more mechanically thoughtful than most games, and is precisely why people love it.

Also it's a visually evocative game, with some of its strongest points being how varied it is in a way that still feels deeply interconnected, both in terms of traversal and how you can see so many other parts of the game world in the distance (but this is only apparent after you've played quite a bit and familiarized yourself with the world, of course.

and...not fun? Definitely not appealing in a visual or control sense. Skeletons with shields? Not the most original concept either.

The game has a ton more than "skeletons with shields". It's a pretty huge game with extremely varied locales and enemies. And even among those "skeletons with shields", there's a lot of variety in how they attack and must be approached.

I guess it gets so much love in places like this exclusively cause it's..hard? Sure, but that doesn't make it any good. I didn't notice even one vaguely impressive thing about it.

Every single game can be deconstructed to the point that its elements feel unspecial and rote. I can play a walled demo of Breath of the Wild and say I don't find a single thing impressive about it (people have even done it with the full game), and there's absolutely nothing you can do to counter that point, because no single element about it will be the "best thing ever".

It's fine not to like something, but saying "millions of people are objectively wrong, this is bad" after playing a very limited demo isn't going to make you seem very insightful, especially considering Dark Souls is a game notorious for putting off people at first and making them fall in love later.

Edit:
Millions of people buy McDonald's everyday, doesn't mean it's good.

This is a very disingenuous thing to say when the poster you were replying to was simply pointing out your objectively wrong statement that the game has a minority fanbase. That's, of course, on top of being shittily elitist.

Edit 2:

1. I never created a new thread asking why people like Souls. I don't think so highly of myself to believe that deserves its own thread. There's a difference in creating a thread about my dislike for a game released last year, to making a post in a current thread about a demo just released.

2. The person I quoted truly hadn't played a second of the game but felt compelled to hate on it. I've played hours of dark souls, both from switch demo and other platforms. So yeah, small difference there.

3. Mario Odyssey is an infinitely more approachable game that can be enjoyed by anyone. Souls isn't- it's defining quality is actually how NON approachable it is. So in that context, my question makes a lot more sense, and is more relevant. None of the adjectives I described can apply to SMO, and even someone who hates that game deeply can't deny that.

But yeah I'm a "hypocrite".

No one of these post-hoc rationalization arguments have any relevance whatsoever to the point. "Creating a thread" vs "posting in a thread" doesn't change how wrong or right you are; a specific person playing more or less of a game doesn't change the fundamental argument you both used that "millions of other people love these games"; and Souls being more approachable actually makes it more impressive that it is loved by so many people. So yes, using an argument in a thread and then dismissing that very argument in another according to how it suits your goals is, indeed, highly hypocritical.

To be 100% clear, I'm perfectly fine with you disliking Dark Souls. It's when you start comparing it to McDonalds and telling people they pretty much have bad taste that I raise an eyebrow.
 
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DaveB

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,513
New Hampshire, USA
The mystery key is used on a door very close to the end of this demo, past the room with the channeler and the swarm of hollows. It lets you meet an NPC and try to kill him if you want, he drops a very good ring.

As for the rest of your post I'm guessing you played as the Black Knight? He starts off with a very high poise value due to the armor worn, and poise is what determines if you react to getting hit. Also his armor has a high weight and the character doesn't have a very high max equip load, so your rolling is very very slow. First thing I did when I tried out black Knight was I took off everything but the pants. That definitely helps your movement.

All of this is stuff you'll gradually be learning in the full game, and you won't have such a high poise or load at the start of it, so you can get used to the game better before changing those things later on when you do have access to heavier armor.
I chose Knight as my character type. And yeah, I feel like the demo doesn't exactly ease you in. There are tons of notes to read near the starting bonfire, but I still feel like I have just been dumped in and not told how the combat works. For example, the guys with shields and spears. I have been taking a swing at them to goat them into attacking and then trying to get some hits in when I sidestep it, but it feels grossly inefficient. I noticed I can do a shield bash sort of move. Is that a clutch mechanic for success?
 

Deleted member 40604

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 3, 2018
294
I chose Knight as my character type. And yeah, I feel like the demo doesn't exactly ease you in. There are tons of notes to read near the starting bonfire, but I still feel like I have just been dumped in and not told how the combat works. For example, the guys with shields and spears. I have been taking a swing at them to goat them into attacking and then trying to get some hits in when I sidestep it, but it feels grossly inefficient. I noticed I can do a shield bash sort of move. Is that a clutch mechanic for success?

The shield bash is actually a parry. You need to swing your shield right before a move makes contact with you. If you pull it off you'll hear a like a low pitched thump sound, press R1 when you hear that and you'll do a high damaging counter attack that basically one shots all the enemies in this part of the demo.

Another move you can do is a backstab. Side step behind your opponent and get exactly behind them. Stand perfectly still then use R1 and you'll go into a backstab animation which will do a ton of damage as well.

Backstabbing even works against the boar. Check out the back of him to see why
 

ragingbegal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
795
I chose Knight as my character type. And yeah, I feel like the demo doesn't exactly ease you in. There are tons of notes to read near the starting bonfire, but I still feel like I have just been dumped in and not told how the combat works. For example, the guys with shields and spears. I have been taking a swing at them to goat them into attacking and then trying to get some hits in when I sidestep it, but it feels grossly inefficient. I noticed I can do a shield bash sort of move. Is that a clutch mechanic for success?
The shield swipe is a parry. If you do it right before an enemy hits you, you'll stun them and they'll be open to a very powerful front attack.

Another tip for shield guys: hit R (weak attack) and up on the L stick simultaneously and you will do a kick that will knock away their shield momentarily. You will also do a lot more damage if you get good at circling around opponets and backstabbing them.

Also remember to use the environment to your advantage. Push enemies into corners or get them onto steps where you can swipe their legs but their reach goes over your head. When you have the opportunity, drop off ledges and do lunging attacks.

When circling, don't hold up your shield until you are actually blocking. Your stamina will recover much faster, allowing you more successive attacks once there is an opening.
 

BloodshotX

Member
Jan 25, 2018
1,596
Really hope its just the network test that the audio is subpar besides that for a change Virtuous games actually included a 5.1 audio track on switch, the last game they did on switch was converted (horribly) to stereo(talking about la noire). And ps4 and xbox 1 versions of la noire where also done by virtuous and also had loads of audio issues.

Can anyone who played the game at pax or e3 tell how the audio quality was there? i assume people used headphones for playing
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
I found handheld mode to not be great. The screen is too small and the joycons aren't great. And the HD rumble is pretty annoying Constantly buzzing (can be turned off). I'm glad I had a chance to try it out though.
 
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Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
I found handheld mode to not be great. The screen is too small and the joycons aren't great. And the HD rumble is pretty annoying Constantly buzzing. I'm glad I had a chance to try it out though.

At least the HD rumble can be reconfigured in the menu, I found 1-2 to be a lot better than the default 10.
 

Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,547
United Kingdom
I found handheld mode to not be great. The screen is too small and the joycons aren't great. And the HD rumble is pretty annoying Constantly buzzing. I'm glad I had a chance to try it out though.
Just... turn it off?

Also I definitely felt that iffy frame-pacing in the demo. God why. Why. It's such a fucking shame, when its ultimately running as well as BOTW but BOTW just feels like butter and this... doesn't.
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
Just... turn it off?

Also I definitely felt that iffy frame-pacing in the demo. God why. Why. It's such a fucking shame, when its ultimately running as well as BOTW but BOTW just feels like butter and this... doesn't.

Yeah I'm sure most people realize you can turn it off, but I revised my post. In general I'm not a fan of HD rumble, but I find this to be a particularly poor implementation.
 

hibikase

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,820
Does the studio who ported this game really not understand that ok and cancel are always A and B on Nintendo platforms regardless of region

Like, what the fuck is this and why did it even get past certification
 

What-ok

Member
Dec 13, 2017
3,038
PDX OR
Maybe I'm completely wrong, but this is a network test, first and foremost and not a demo to sell the game to those looking to pick this up. It says it right at the intro too that it's not final build stuff. Just my perspective of course and just trying to keep things in perspective. That being said, I think it played fine. We use a fiber optic connection in our home so that might be of help. Not sure though since I don't know anything about the tech.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,692
Souls veteran impressions (docked):

  • looks rather nice and crisp visually without the flat lighting of the other versions
  • button mapping is sorely needed, B for confirm and A for cancel is just awful
  • framerate is ... not good
  • audio is horribly compressed
  • summoning worked perfectly fine
  • there are obviously both newbies who have no idea what to do and veterans who easily backstab everything
  • bad choice of an area for new players, I can see it being frustrating if you've never played Souls before
  • anyone who's having trouble: pick the Warrior of Sunlight, he's very op
  • I won't buy it with this framerate (and certainly not at that price)
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Souls veteran impressions (docked):

  • looks rather nice and crisp visually without the flat lighting of the other versions
  • button mapping is sorely needed, B for confirm and A for cancel is just awful
  • framerate is ... not good
  • audio is horribly compressed
  • summoning worked perfectly fine
  • there are obviously both newbies who have no idea what to do and veterans who easily backstab everything
  • bad choice of an area for new players, I can see it being frustrating if you've never played Souls before
  • anyone who's having trouble: pick the Warrior of Sunlight, he's very op
  • I won't buy it with this framerate (and certainly not at that price)

By framerate do you mean frame pacing? The framerate is quite stable both in my experience and the videos I've seen. I've only done handheld mode though, but the videos seem to a mix of docked and handheld.

There was an analysis video posted earlier which showed the framerate at a nearly locked 30fps outside of the gargoyle fight where it could drop to about 26.

The frame pacing is indeed pretty poor though and it seems to be an engine limitation since it's like that in all of From's 30fps games.

Either way it's way smoother than the original version.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,692
By framerate do you mean frame pacing? The framerate is quite stable both in my experience and the videos I've seen. I've only done handheld mode though, but the videos seem to a mix of docked and handheld.

There was an analysis video posted earlier which showed the framerate at a nearly locked 30fps outside of the gargoyle fight where it could drop to about 26.

The frame pacing is indeed pretty poor though and it seems to be an engine limitation since it's like that in all of From's 30fps games.

Either way it's way smoother than the original version.
Yeah, frame pacing, sorry. It's really jittery at times. It's been a while since I played Bloodborne but this felt a lot worse.
 

Deleted member 40604

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 3, 2018
294
Souls veteran impressions (docked):

  • looks rather nice and crisp visually without the flat lighting of the other versions
  • button mapping is sorely needed, B for confirm and A for cancel is just awful
  • framerate is ... not good
  • audio is horribly compressed
  • summoning worked perfectly fine
  • there are obviously both newbies who have no idea what to do and veterans who easily backstab everything
  • bad choice of an area for new players, I can see it being frustrating if you've never played Souls before
  • anyone who's having trouble: pick the Warrior of Sunlight, he's very op
  • I won't buy it with this framerate (and certainly not at that price)

Framerate is fine, the frame pacing is just not good. Runs way better than the original PS3/360 version so that's good enough for me I guess. That was literally all I was wanting after seeing how weird the remastered version looked. Price isn't an issue for me since I still have GCU. $32 for OG Dark Souls that I can take on the go is too good a deal to pass up.

To also add on to Warrior of Sunlight being OP, both him and the Pyromancer have rite of kindling, so you can kindle bonfires to get you 20 flasks. Just consume some humanity at the start of the demo.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,692
Framerate is fine, the frame pacing is just not good. Runs way better than the original PS3/360 version so that's good enough for me I guess. That was literally all I was wanting after seeing how weird the remastered version looked. Price isn't an issue for me since I still have GCU. $32 for OG Dark Souls that I can take on the go is too good a deal to pass up.

To also add on to Warrior of Sunlight being OP, both him and the Pyromancer have rite of kindling, so you can kindle bonfires to get you 20 flasks. Just consume some humanity at the start of the demo.
Regarding the price: I don't want to support Bamco's business practices. Full price for a late port that's already discounted on other platforms + the trilogy with a much better value releasing on the same day? No thanks.
 

Imitatio

Member
Feb 19, 2018
14,560
Yeah, I am going to pass on this. While my first impressions from yesterday were way worse than what I experienced over the last few hours, this game just feels like too much of a compromise in too many areas to be anywhere near worth the 40€ I'd have to spend. The undocked experience is overall very questionable to me in regards to practicality. Even turning up the brightness and disabling HD rumble (which is horribly implemented imo), the handheld play is not all that enjoyable. The screen is simply too small, the atmosphere doesn't come through as it does when playing docked. The button config is veeery uncomfortable to use in this way. The shoulder buttons are badly placed / made for a Souls game with its standard config. Holding the Switch while using the right analog stick also gets tiring rather fast.
And despite the seemingly better performance when being connected to the right servers, there seems to be quite the input lag in both modes, docked as well as undocked. I'd say it's worse with the former. Tried every class, still feels unresponsive.

Other stuff like the delays, pricing in that context and no cloud saves add to my negativity towards the title. And I don't think I gotta bring up the horrible sound quality again.
Furthermore, I'm someone who got interested in Souls thanks to Bloodborne, followed by loving Dark Souls 3. Dark Souls 1 feels like such a step back compared to those - which is expected in certain areas, but I was really suprised (negatively) how different the game feels overall. Not only in terms of speed and responsiveness compared to DS3, but also in terms of atmosphere compared to 3 and BB. Maybe that's due to the demo area, maybe it's just that BB and DS3 set a certain standard for me with the series and DS1 just isn't capable of reaching that standard. Which isn't its fault due to it being an old game and this version 'only' being a remaster, not a remake. So I guess I'm getting what I should've been expecting, but I'm disappointed nonetheless to be quite honest.

I still hope that it sells well enough on Switch and that the Beta's flaws will be ironed out for those that intend to play it anyway. I'll be playing something else, though, sadly enough.
(Well, there's a ton of games coming out on the Switch in the next 3 months, so I'll certainly have enough stuff to play, heh!)
 

GreenMonkey

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,861
Michigan
I tried this on my wife's switch last night . Between the button swap and the tiny r1/l1 bumpers I was really struggling...and I'm doing an SL1 run on the remaster right now because I've played hundreds of hours of Dark Souls.

And going shoulder to buttons to right analog to lock on felt very awkward on the small switch. Definitely benefits for a real controller.

Going back to 30ish fps feels painful too.

Not sure I'm gonna pick it up.

That said, the lighting and effects and such feel more faithful to the OG. Felt a lot more familiar / nostalgic than the PS4/PC remaster.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
i dont get the button thing? its just like all other versions right ? or am i crazy?
 

7threst

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,297
Netherlands
Just a few days ago I posted I wasn't interested, but after trying out the network test demo it's itching again.... god, I love this game so much. Summoning failed a lot though.

I'll never be able to wrap my mind around why people love this game so much. I get most people don't, it's mainly a hardcore, vocal minority on the internet. But still. It's dark, drab, kind of ugly, awkward, slow, clunky, and...not fun? Definitely not appealing in a visual or control sense. Skeletons with shields? Not the most original concept either. I guess it gets so much love in places like this exclusively cause it's..hard? Sure, but that doesn't make it any good. I didn't notice even one vaguely impressive thing about it.
It's not a vocal minority. These games sold quite well. There is atmosphere, sense of progression and constant tension. But, as is the case with all games, it's just not for everybody.
 

Dash Kappei

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,842
Well, I came in with zero intentions of dipping again into DS especially after the delay... I came away with an Amazon preorder.

It's the best version possible of the original Dark Souls you can buy today
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Yeah the Souls itch is real. Reminds me of the RE 4 itch I had back in the day, I had to replay it at least once or twice a year.