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Deleted member 18407

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,607
Rather off-topic, but do you have any idea what a rare privilege it is to be able to cherry pick who you feel comfortable working with? I don't live in a first world country, but whenever I read this kind of comment I think it's hilariously out of touch to suggest "oh man my boss is sexist, I'll morally protest by quitting" is an option available to most people.
There's a difference when the example I used is a literal Nazi. I would quit no matter my job if I found out my boss was a literal Nazi.

I don't expect everyone to quit their jobs if their boss is just an asshole but come on, a literal Nazi is something else. It's why I was using that extreme of an example.

No way. They don't bring this up in Movie reviews so why should they bring it up in games reviews?
This gets brought up CONSTANTLY in movie and music reviews though. Have you not read many? If video games are going to be treated as an art form, they're going to have to be reviewed as an art form and that brings this baggage with it.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,405
Reviews absolutely need to consider the context of a game's release, because that's the one avenue that makes them the most valuable. Like, reviews are a snapshot in time, and so that should absolutely be captured in the text.

For example, the best review I've seen in a long time is Waypoint's review of Shadow of the Tomb Raider by Dia Lacina. It's because the review dives so deeply into the history of Tomb Raider that it can contextualise the failures of Shadow itself. You have to go beyond the game to properly explain why it falls short. And for other games, it is equally necessary to go beyond the game to explain why it works so well.

So if the developer has some baggage it, too, should be covered, because that's important to understanding that game at that point in time. Why might a reviewer feel uncomfortable with Dragon Quest's or DmC's music, Kingdom Come: Deliverance's world, or the very existence of Star Control: Origins? I want to know. (And similarly, the absence of these questions is just as notable to me, as a reader.)

In short, reviews should be comprehensive.
 

Mcjmetroid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Limerick, Ireland
But they do. Mark Kermode brings up controversies surrounding projects all the time.

Is this in actually movie reviews though?, Not previews or features?

Admittingly I don't watch much movie reviews. They can bring up troubled production but this is normally something you'd hear more about well after the movies release.

I think the other thing while I'm on the subject is that movie creation is a lot more.. ah... "Mainstream" than videogames. Videogame developers generally aren't household names or celebrities so it would be easier for controversy surrounding movies to reach the mainstream audiences through tabloids or gossip mags and I'm not sure we don't wanna go down that route either.
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
There's a difference when the example I used is a literal Nazi. I would quit no matter my job if I found out my boss was a literal Nazi.

I don't expect everyone to quit their jobs if their boss is just an asshole but come on, a literal Nazi is something else. It's why I was using that extreme of an example.
Sure, I'd just let my kids starve, that shows how noble I am.
 

Deleted member 18407

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,607
Is this in actually movie reviews though?, Not previews or features?

Admittingly I don't watch much movie reviews. They can bring up troubled production but this is normally something you'd here more about well after the movies release.

I think the other thing while I'm on the subject is that movie creation is a lot more.. ah... "Mainstream" than videogames. Videogame developers generally aren't household names or celebrities so it would be easier for controversy surrounding movies to reach the mainstream audiences through tabloids or gossip mags and I'm not sure we don't wanna go down that route either.
It's not just gossip and tabloids though. Do you not think the history of say someone like Woody Allen doesn't play into the themes and reception of his movies? That who he is doesn't come through in his writing? Why wouldn't the same apply to games?
Sure, I'd just let my kids starve, that shows how noble I am.
Orrrrrrr you could look for another job while receiving your money for the time being and quit when you got one? Like when I say quit, I didn't say immediately walk out, did I?
 

Mcjmetroid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Limerick, Ireland
It's not just gossip and tabloids though. Do you not think the history of say someone like Woody Allen doesn't play into the themes and reception of his movies? That who he is doesn't come through in his writing? Why wouldn't the same apply to games?

Hmm I guess you're right I just haven't personally seen many reviews of movies delve deep into the production itself.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
There's a difference when the example I used is a literal Nazi. I would quit no matter my job if I found out my boss was a literal Nazi.

I don't expect everyone to quit their jobs if their boss is just an asshole but come on, a literal Nazi is something else. It's why I was using that extreme of an example.
Literal Nazi, literal Voldemort, doesn't really matter. The vast majority of the people I know wouldn't be able to quit a job over moral convictions of what their boss' ideology is simply because things like paying rent and putting food on the table are significantly more important than shunning bigots. I'll put it this way: there's no phrase for "living paycheck to paycheck" in a lot of places because it's understood that that's the default state for people.

You can't just offhand judge people for the circumstance they're in without the context of why they're there. Think of it this way: whatever job you have is probably the best option you have available (in terms of working conditions, wage, how interesting it is). There's a reason for you to have the job you have and it's usually either having no alternative, or the alternatives being worse in one aspect or another (or at least no better).
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,571
Like a review?

There is no problem with a review mentioning the creators issues, or improper sexualisation or political pandering or whatever. You can even mention if the game has a FOV slider or not, which is irrelavant to almost everyone but a life or death feature for others. This does not mean that it has to impact your purchasing decision in any way.

But you know, it might. Which is the whole point of a review.

I'm going to make a deliberately stupid, exaggerated comparison for the sake of making a point clear. I'm aware that it's stupid and exaggerated. Please forgive me.

Your argument is that these things could be relevant for the purchasing decisions of some people, so they should be included. People for whom it's not relevant can ignore it. The problem though is that you can always go into more detail—choosing when to stop is an important editorial decision.

Here's my stupid example. This is a review of Pokémon OmegaRuby. It's 7 hours long. It goes into incredibly thorough detail about every single element of the game, most of which are never even touched upon by reviewers and yet are big elements of the game for some people and would highly affect their purchasing decisions (such as Pokémon Contests).



Obviously, no normal review should be 7 hours long. Hell, 10 minutes is pushing it for most big sites.

Things can't be included in "standard reviews" just because some people might find it important, it has to be judged on whether it's important enough to your target audience that it ought to be.

A site like Waypoint usually will, because that's their target audience. IGN usually won't. I personally prefer the latter, and all I said in my original comment was what I personally prefer.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
I don't think there is an obligation to, no. It entirely depends on the reviewer, the style of the review and the sensibilities of the publication, doesn't it? Like, if you care about the moral implications in games, you tend to (and can) seek out reviews that do extrapolate on that. If you don't, you uh don't.
 
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Deleted member 18407

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
3,607
Literal Nazi, literal Voldemort, doesn't really matter. The vast majority of the people I know wouldn't be able to quit a job over moral convictions of what their boss' ideology is simply because things like paying rent and putting food on the table are significantly more important than shunning bigots. I'll put it this way: there's no phrase for "living paycheck to paycheck" in a lot of places because it's understood that that's the default state for people.

You can't just offhand judge people for the circumstance they're in without the context of why they're there. Think of it this way: whatever job you have is probably the best option you have available (in terms of working conditions, wage, how interesting it is). There's a reason for you to have the job you have and it's usually either having no alternative, or the alternatives being worse in one aspect or another (or at least no better).
Sorry, I just don't see "Nazism" as just another ideology and couldn't help line such a person's pockets with my work and I don't think most people could morally justify it.

I'll say this though. If you didn't know when you started working for a literal Nazi or he became public later that he was one? I'll give you some leeway. If you applied for a job with a literal Nazi and knew about it before hand? Nah.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,043
The important this is that we all remember that we don't know what beliefs the janitor has, so it wouldn't be fair for us to show concern to the guy who has his name in the copyrights and who we know is financing war crime denial using the fabulous wealth he earned from people buying the games.
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
I don't think there should be any rules or "lines" for what we should or shouldn't expect from a review. Some reviewers may personally think it's important to point it out to the reader, while other reviewers may not know, not find it important, or not want to get involved in controversy (especially if you work for a publication). In the end, you choose which writers you trust and support.
 
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Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
Sorry, I just don't see "Nazism" as just another ideology and couldn't help line such a person's pockets with my work and I don't think most people could morally justify it.

I'll say this though. If you didn't know when you started working for a literal Nazi or he became public later that he was one? I'll give you some leeway. If you applied for a job with a literal Nazi and knew about it before hand? Nah.
Nazism is bad. But the rape of a 13 year old, insofar as it is a committed crime and not just thoughts and feelings, rates as a much worse offense in my book than having disgusting beliefs or views, no matter how bad Nazi ideology is.

So I ask: is everybody who collaborates in a Polanski film a bad person? Is The Pianist a bad movie because the director is a disgusting human being?
 

Valdega

Banned
Sep 7, 2018
1,609
I separate creator from creation. A good game is a good game regardless of who made it.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,043
Nazism is bad. But the rape of a 13 year old, insofar as it is a committed crime and not just thoughts and feelings, rates as a much worse offense in my book than having disgusting beliefs or views, no matter how bad Nazi ideology is.

So I ask: is everybody who collaborates in a Polanski film a bad person? Is The Pianist a bad movie because the director is a disgusting human being?

https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...pist-roman-polanski-convicted-40-years-on-run

https://jezebel.com/5372261/are-anti-polanski-celebs-afraid-to-speak-up

https://www.themarysue.com/roman-polanski-supporters-timesup/

I think there's a fair amount of criticism out there of Hollywood's apologism for Polanski. Just grabbed some random articles real quick.
 

Deleted member 18407

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
3,607
Nazism is bad. But the rape of a 13 year old, insofar as it is a committed crime and not just thoughts and feelings, rates as a much worse offense in my book than having disgusting beliefs or views, no matter how bad Nazi ideology is.

So I ask: is everybody who collaborates in a Polanski film a bad person? Is The Pianist a bad movie because the director is a disgusting human being?
I definitely question their convictions if they were willing to work with him after the crime happened. They definitely wouldn't see my money for that film. Would you trust anyone who would work with someone like Harvey Weinstein after his crimes went public?
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
Whenever I review a product I remind myself that someone may spend their money on the product based on my critique. This forces me to be very forthcoming about its issues. I do not go out of my way to look for tiny bits of impropriety but if there is a major controversy that overshadows the product itself I will mention. The most recent example was a registered sex offender being cast in the new Predator film. It was such a huge deal that I couldn't review the movie without mentioning it so I wrote a brief paragrah about it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Here's my stupid example. This is a review of Pokémon OmegaRuby. It's 7 hours long. It goes into incredibly thorough detail about every single element of the game, most of which are never even touched upon by reviewers and yet are big elements of the game for some people and would highly affect their purchasing decisions (such as Pokémon Contests).

I am secretly delighted such a thing exists, and only wish it were in writing instead of on video for ease of skimming and searching (though at least this monstrosity is indexed with timestamps... fifty or sixty timestamps). It's a hard job, but somebody has to do it.

In seriousness, as you said, not everybody can or should play to every possible audience. My problem is when I'm not in anybody's audience. That's not something that the people who prioritize developers' politics, industry labour issues, or left-leaning readings of cultures of narrative can say. Several major publications give these perspectives plenty of space; not everyone has to do it, not when there are so many other interests that are never addressed at all except by series die-hards in series-specific sites. The stereotype of certain generalist outlets as replete with armchair slacktivists who don't know how to play exists for a reason.

I'd be more sympathetic to the notion that developers' controversial backgrounds are underexposed if they were in fact underexposed. The reality is that self-appointed guardians of "holding people to account" already dig into this excessively on both the right and the left. Let's single out the composer, the sound guy, the low-level marketeer with an obnoxious Twitter account. But heaven help us should we prefer to set our focus on game design.
 
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Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
Oh I'm all for calling him out and reporting on what a terrible person he is.

I just don't believe it makes the art he produces any worse. Think of it this way: you listen to a song on the radio and love it. You Shazam it and listen to the rest of the album on the way home. It's music you loved.

Once home, you google the artist and it turns out they're (insert whatever offends you). Is the music suddenly any worse? If you had to rate the album, would you do it on the basis of your listening experience, or would you use the album's review as a platform to rate the artist's politics?

I don't see why one thing is related to another, and while I firmly believe these background issues absolutely need to be exposed, I don't believe they should have any bearing on the review of artistic production itself. These things can be separated.
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
I definitely question their convictions if they were willing to work with him after the crime happened. They definitely wouldn't see my money for that film. Would you trust anyone who would work with someone like Harvey Weinstein after his crimes went public?


Why do Polanski discussions always end up in just a one-sided argument regarding Polanski?
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
Why do Polanski discussions always end up in just a one-sided argument regarding Polanski?
Well, there's the "he plead guilty to raping a 13 year old girl and has avoided imprisonment for decades" side to the argument. Whatever other sides you feel should be presented are gonna have a hard time distracting from that.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,043
Oh I'm all for calling him out and reporting on what a terrible person he is.

I just don't believe it makes the art he produces any worse. Think of it this way: you listen to a song on the radio and love it. You Shazam it and listen to the rest of the album on the way home. It's music you loved.

Once home, you google the artist and it turns out they're (insert whatever offends you). Is the music suddenly any worse? If you had to rate the album, would you do it on the basis of your listening experience, or would you use the album's review as a platform to rate the artist's politics?

I don't see why one thing is related to another, and while I firmly believe these background issues absolutely need to be exposed, I don't believe they should have any bearing on the review of artistic production itself. These things can be separated.

Well, part of your post was

So I ask: is everybody who collaborates in a Polanski film a bad person?

which I don't think is actually on that point. If you're all for criticizing the people, doesn't that kind of answer itself? Correct me if I'm wrong on the dates here. The Pianist was released in 2002. Polanski fled to France to avoid sentencing in 1978. This being Hollywood, the people who were involved in the project were probably attracted to it in part because of his fame, and knew he was in before they signed up.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
if a reviewer wants to bring it up thats fine, they shouldn't be expected to though
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
Well, there's the "he plead guilty to raping a 13 year old girl and has avoided imprisonment for decades" side to the argument. Whatever other sides you feel should be presented are gonna have a hard time distracting from that.

You don't thing getting his pregnant wife and his friend stabbed to death doesn't add any type of complexity to things? Specially when judging movies like Chinatown, that was created years before the incident you refer to but after the Manson murders?
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,900
A game developed by someone who is a dick should be reviewed differently to a game that has been significantly impacted by someone's dickish actions. The difference is the latter should include the "behind the scenes" because it directly impacted the final product in measurable, specific ways.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,043
You don't thing getting his pregnant wife and his friend stabbed to death doesn't add any type of complexity to things? Specially when judging movies like Chinatown, that was created years before the incident you refer to but after the Manson murders?

No one brought up movies from before his sexual assault went public, at least not in what you were quoting. The first post you quoted even included "if they were willing to work with him after the crime happened." in its first sentence.
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
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Jan 8, 2018
908
Oh I'm all for calling him out and reporting on what a terrible person he is.

I just don't believe it makes the art he produces any worse. Think of it this way: you listen to a song on the radio and love it. You Shazam it and listen to the rest of the album on the way home. It's music you loved.

Once home, you google the artist and it turns out they're (insert whatever offends you). Is the music suddenly any worse? If you had to rate the album, would you do it on the basis of your listening experience, or would you use the album's review as a platform to rate the artist's politics?

I don't see why one thing is related to another, and while I firmly believe these background issues absolutely need to be exposed, I don't believe they should have any bearing on the review of artistic production itself. These things can be separated.

This is more or less where I'm at: you can recognise the quality of something and acknowledge its creator's personal short-comings, without either comment invalidating the other.

Great contributions are sometimes made by terrible people - humans are messy, complex beings in that way.

To me, the fairest response is to cherish good ideas for the abstracts they are - whether they be a cool new piece of video game tech or the cure for a terminal disease - and assess the morale decency of it's creator separately.

Of course, in a capitalist society, where good ideas can have absurd financial benefit for the creator, offering them vastly increased personal economic and social influence, things get much trickier and we are forced to reject goods ideas to event promoting bad ones.

In short, the real problem is commodifying arts, ideas and cultural artefacts in the way we do - we can't separate good ideas from bad people, because they have a legally protected right to benefit from them.

On topic, it's not out of the question for reviewers to bring these things up while the current economic situation prevails.
 

jariw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,283
No one brought up movies from before his sexual assault went public, at least not in what you were quoting. The first post you quoted even included "if they were willing to work with him after the crime happened." in its first sentence.

The first references to Polanski's work in this thread (message #15) referenced Chinatown and Rosmary's Baby, which were both before. I can agree that working with him afterwards is really debatable.
 

StayHandsome

Member
Nov 30, 2017
759
Rather off-topic, but do you have any idea what a rare privilege it is to be able to cherry pick who you feel comfortable working with? I don't live in a first world country, but whenever I read this kind of comment I think it's hilariously out of touch to suggest "oh man my boss is sexist, I'll morally protest by quitting" is an option available to most people.

Veering back on-topic, I think the context of who and what the artist is can be enlightening and interesting, but it doesn't sway the quality of the art in any way shape or fashion.

You could be a literal Nazi and produce art I enjoy, or a literal saint ant produce things I find uninteresting. These things are unrelated. Somebody mentioned Polanski and that's a great example. We're talking about a guy convicted for raping a 13 year old girl and who fled to avoid imprisonment - doesn't get more disgusting than that, and if it were up to me he'd be rotting in a jail cell. But does that make The Pianist a bad movie? Of course not, it's a masterpiece. I wouldn't like to see a review going with "well it's a great movie, but the director is a criminal, human garbage bag so I'm giving this a 5/10".

Well put.

If a reviewer wishes to pursue their political agenda, I suggest not reviewing the work at all, rather than disengenuously contending that it's low quality, when it isn't.

Your lying about a game will affect its sales, which hurts more than just the one person you're targeting. If you argue that the ends justify the means, and that those people who suffer are unfortunate but necessary casualties, you should have no qualms about sacrificing your own ad revenue from refusing to review a popular and controversial game.
 

swift-darius

Member
May 10, 2018
943
classic reviews as people concieve of them seem like they're on the way out anyway. but I really think there's a space for this kind of contextual exploration of a game, its development, its individuals and problematic elements. look at waypoint's work for great coverage of games in a more socially conscious manner
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,043
The first references to Polanski's work in this thread (message #15) referenced Chinatown and Rosmary's Baby, which were both before. I can agree that working with him afterwards is really debatable.

Okay. But that post was suggesting that you couldn't watch these movies without thinking of Roman Polanski's history. Regardless of whether that post was correct or not, it doesn't have anything to do with with the particular timeframe in which the movie was made. For us as the viewer in 2018, Polanski's sexual abuse is just as much in the past as the Manson's murders. Why does it even matter in this discussion?
 

Dinoegg_96

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
2,022
If I ever read a review, I want to know about the game, not about the people who made the game.
 

Deleted member 1698

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,254
I'm going to make a deliberately stupid, exaggerated comparison for the sake of making a point clear. I'm aware that it's stupid and exaggerated. Please forgive me.

Your argument is that these things could be relevant for the purchasing decisions of some people, so they should be included. People for whom it's not relevant can ignore it. The problem though is that you can always go into more detail—choosing when to stop is an important editorial decision.

Here's my stupid example. This is a review of Pokémon OmegaRuby. It's 7 hours long. It goes into incredibly thorough detail about every single element of the game, most of which are never even touched upon by reviewers and yet are big elements of the game for some people and would highly affect their purchasing decisions (such as Pokémon Contests).



Obviously, no normal review should be 7 hours long. Hell, 10 minutes is pushing it for most big sites.

Things can't be included in "standard reviews" just because some people might find it important, it has to be judged on whether it's important enough to your target audience that it ought to be.

A site like Waypoint usually will, because that's their target audience. IGN usually won't. I personally prefer the latter, and all I said in my original comment was what I personally prefer.


That example still doesn't point out any obvious flaw in a review including lots of extra information. The problem you are talking about is the delivery of content, not the content itself.

So for example if a 7 hour pokemon video has a set of chapters that you can skip between, it is an incredibly useful thing to have on the internet. Maybe you are only interested in 0-10minutes = Gameplay, but someone else might be interested in the four hour section on Ash's hat. If this is properly organised, everyone is happy.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
So many responses in this thread really hammer home the phrase that "ignorance is bliss." How absolutely sad that is.
 
Feb 16, 2018
2,685
game reviewers aren't paid anywhere near enough to handle these sorts of issues with any reasonable level of competence.

if someone wants to do some actual journalism and separate the fact from the fiction about what's going on behind the scenes, that's fine and that can be worthy of an article. but that's probably outside the scope of a game reviewer's responsibilities

Speaking as a serious strategy player who has always found the media coverage of strategy games to be serially and incorrigibly shallow, Brad Wardell gets plenty of exposure from people who know how to talk about gossip and industry drama but not about game design. The last thing we need is the intrusion of more redundant drum-beating outside the pages where this already exists, when what we actually need is competent, informed analysis of what Stardock is turning out as one of the most significant publishers in the PC strategy landscape over the past twenty years.

Everyone who has ever stepped into a Stardock thread around here knows about the enmities involving Wardell already. I will bet you not more than a handful of the posters in those threads, let alone the media figures who have already demonstrated they have literally nothing else of use to say about Stardock, could hold a conversation with me for five minutes about Offworld Trading Company. One of these things is a problem.

this is also true

i follow this genre particularly closely, both as a player and a developer. but having discussions here about the gameplay or game design isn't something that happens. also, the narratives are extremely skewed when it comes to Stardock
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
I think a review should mention stuff like this at the beginning, in the form of links to other articles covering it.

It can play into a persons decision whether or not to buy a game and helping someone make that decision is the entire point of a review.
 

Jerry Orbach

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
124
It's important to call out the bad corporate officers in reviews, if only because it throws into sharp relief how fucking great the guys who run for example Zenimax Media are. Les Moonves, Robert Trump, baseball's "Iron Man" Cal Ripken Jr... all more deserving of your money than Brad Wardell.
 

Wulfram

Member
Mar 3, 2018
1,478
I think if you have a serious moral problem with a game/developer then you boycott it and don't do an actual review. Stick up a "Why we're not reviewing this game" article instead.

If its not a dealbreaker then you could note it at the top of the article but still try to keep it separate from the review.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I usually think the art and the artist should be kept separate, but it doesn't apply universally. For example, I like Tom Cruise as an actor and Juliette Lewis as a singer, even though both are crazy scientologists. But then again, I bought Kingdom Come used, because I didn't want to give my money to the team that chose a bigoted piece of shit like Dan Vávra to be their public face.
 

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
29,008
Wrexham, Wales
I may choose not to review a game or movie for moral reasons but if I choose to review it I probably won't make much mention of the creators' morals.
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
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May 9, 2018
5,741
honestly for me to buy or not buy a game it all comes down to is the game good/would I enjoy it.

What X person did before or during making the game has pretty much zero impact on my choice.
 

PsionBolt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,299
While the most important part of any work is always the work itself and its inherent qualities, many -- dare I say all? -- truly great works are better appreciated in the context of other things, be they other works or real-life events. A review that connects a game to its creator's politics in a well-evidenced way is likely to be a good review, because making connections like that takes relatively higher-level analysis than we tend to get from game reviews.

That said, even when the real-life context doesn't seem to correlate much with the content of the actual work, it's still fine to mention that context, and to use it to inform your opinion of the work. I don't have any problems whatsoever simultaneously saying "Dragon Quest 11 is a great game" and "I don't recommend buying Dragon Quest 11". That's not a contradiction; it's just a matter of one's priorities.
 

higemaru

Member
Nov 30, 2017
4,104
With DMC5, that'll probably be patched out if they don't change it by release. Capcom doesn't seem too happy about it either.

As for Star Control, yeah, fuck that guy and go ahead and give his game negative reviews for his being a turd. If it's just mediocre Mass Effect, who cares, play Mass Effect. The Star Control game made by the sexist dumbass probably doesn't have anything too interesting in it. Kingdom Come should also have gotten some flack, ditto Armikrog (although the lack of coverage on that one was probably a result of Doug's homophobia)

Honestly though, on work culture alone I would likely be hesitant to support most studios. I think moving forward games journalism needs to take a watchdog approach to how we cover labor in the field, especially with the recent Telltale bankruptcy. People are working too hard for no reward and unless we put pressure on companies to change how they make games, they'll never stop exploiting employees.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I don't think that stuff belongs in game reviews. Doesn't mean they aren't worth reporting, but better to be separate imo. Game review is about if the product is good and worth the time, not if there's bad people behind it. Of course if there are questionable or harmful messaging in the game story or character wise, this is worth exploring in a review. As I don't mean we should keep "politics" away from game reviews. But just like we have smartphone reviews it's not about the working conditions but the product itself. Discussing and bringing awareness about the working conditions is also important topic, but not relevant for the quality assesment of the product.

If reviewer does want to discuss more than the game, this is fine. But it definitely isn't a moral obligation.
 
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