Public speaking skills are useful for everyone. My problem with class presentations is that most people, in high school and undergrad, simply read off a PowerPoint. Hell, I've had quite a few professors that have done the same thing.
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Teens are protesting in-class presentations
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
- Start date
We should be promoting the intrinsic rewards and benefits of doing these things, rather than creating some arbitrary extrinsic reward.
People already do that anyway, it's the culture we've created and reinforced.
How would you ask this very same question and advocate your point in real-life? By public speaking. You are asking to be left incompetent to stand up for yourself, you are asking for misery ironically enough
Why type of person uses Trigonometry every day?
School isn't always about what you're being taught in class, it's about learning how to problem solve, face challenges and resolve issues.
I'm not dismissing people with anxiety disorder but I'd like to see an IEP if someone is going to be excused from an exercise like this
It always shocks me just how many young people (far into adulthood) seem to suffer from anxiety.
Forcing yourself to practice things that trigger anxiety might not work for everyone, but it certainly works better than always avoiding everything.
I used to be fearful of any phone calls, got physically uncomfortable when having to do a presentation and always worried about catching any attention in public.
If I hadn't gone out of my way and forced myself to do all these things until they became normal, I don't know how I'd be able to work as a functional adult. It's so liberating.
Forcing yourself to practice things that trigger anxiety might not work for everyone, but it certainly works better than always avoiding everything.
I used to be fearful of any phone calls, got physically uncomfortable when having to do a presentation and always worried about catching any attention in public.
If I hadn't gone out of my way and forced myself to do all these things until they became normal, I don't know how I'd be able to work as a functional adult. It's so liberating.
If you're good enough to standout even for just a bit, even if you try to be socially invisible in the office, management will think you have leadership material and if your immediate supervisor knows that you know people working for local charities, he would most likely nominate you to be one of the leaders of your company's inaugural Christmas charity donation drive. So basically what im saying, is that even if you try to actively avoid it, you will be put in situations where you will be forced to use your public speaking/presentation skills. Better learn to cope with it. It could be because of an emergency leave from one of your colleague or random management decisions like what i mentioned above.
Where I'm from, you choose electives from grade 10 onward. You instead take subjects that will benefit you in your future career. The choice extends to math, being math and math literacy.
The way my uni worked around it was that at the end of the project we were each given 100 marks to divide up amongst the rest of our group, according to how much work we perceived others had done. That way, if only 2 or 3 people out of 5 actually worked on the project, they'd give each other a higher number of marks per person than a group that all worked equally. It certainly wasn't perfect, and we were encouraged to talk to the lecturer is someone wasn't contributing at all, but it helped offset the marks lost by having fewer people contributing.
We had someone in our group who never showed up, and he ended up with less than half the marks we did, despite technically being part of the project.
I understand giving kids with severe anxiety (to the point where it is something diagnosable) other options, but the main body of students needs to learn how to handle public speaking.
When I mention alternatives, I mean stuff like creating a video recording of a speech, for example.
When I mention alternatives, I mean stuff like creating a video recording of a speech, for example.
Homework has been protested against by both kids and their parents for years.
For the topic of in class presentations, we should be able to help students with anxiety and similar issues while presenting while still having presentations be a thing.
But I said "fire-ass coder", not a code monkey. The point being that if you can balance out your weaknesses with your strengths, you should be fine.
To clarify, I think public speaking should be mandatory for 99.9999% of students, just not the tiny minority of kids who have a clear disorder. Maybe that's a moot point though, since the topic of the thread is whether students can just choose to opt out.
But just as a thought experiment, let's just say that Gen Z are all allowed to opt-out of any school activities that make them uncomfortable, and are allowed to put focus on activities they excel at. Fast-forward 50 years, and I'd imagine a society of specialists rather than generalists. The societal rules, structures and systems we see as rigid would likely actually adapt accordingly to suit this new reality. I think everything would be fine, or at least as fine as things are now. Hell, if anything that sounds like a happier society to me. Plus there would still be social incentive to go outside your comfort zone, if you want a leg up on someone else whether in your career or in dating etc.
The only way to get better at this is to do it, and its so essential for most careers if you want to progress beyond entry level jobs. The only way I became a confident public speaker is by doing it repeatedly despite the horrible stress and anxiety.
I don't think there's any real way around that. It's not something you can learn in theory, and there are no alternatives to an effectively delivered presentation by someone in the flesh.
I don't think there's any real way around that. It's not something you can learn in theory, and there are no alternatives to an effectively delivered presentation by someone in the flesh.
Until you're replaced by a "fire-ass coder" who can also publicly present their work and ideas confidently. Technical and presentation skills are not mutually exclusive.
You know, I'd be more ok with them "protesting" homework than in-class presentations. Presentations prepare you for public speaking which prepares you for life. Homework I remember being excessive and usually useless busy work, in all subjects but a few.
In college I would have agreed with this but having useless team members to deal with is a thing in real life too.
It's a tough one. Anxiety is absolutely the real deal and for somebody suffering from it, a class presentation is one of the most terrifying things that can happen. I don't even suffer from anxiety but I do get social anxiety and was extremely shy in school. I'm not ashamed to say I've not come in on days my presentation was due lol. And that I've literally been shaking and hyperventilating and sweating when it's coming up to time to call my name.
On the other hand, public speaking is a necessity in some form in the vast majority of careers, and school is the only time you can learn to do it with no major pressure. Avoiding it will only fuck you over more in the long run, and I do think it needs to remain a major part of the school system. Imagine avoiding them all your school life and then having a group interview the first time you apply for a job. You wouldn't stand a snowflakes chance in hell. There is something in between forcing everyone to do it and letting anybody skip it, which would be talking to anyone who doesn't want to, encouraging them to, explaining the benefits, offering them the chance to do it in front of a smaller group, but being open to letting them miss it if it seems like they are genuinely struggling.
Whether schools and teachers have the resources and time to do that is another question, but it's certainly an issue worth looking into.
On the other hand, public speaking is a necessity in some form in the vast majority of careers, and school is the only time you can learn to do it with no major pressure. Avoiding it will only fuck you over more in the long run, and I do think it needs to remain a major part of the school system. Imagine avoiding them all your school life and then having a group interview the first time you apply for a job. You wouldn't stand a snowflakes chance in hell. There is something in between forcing everyone to do it and letting anybody skip it, which would be talking to anyone who doesn't want to, encouraging them to, explaining the benefits, offering them the chance to do it in front of a smaller group, but being open to letting them miss it if it seems like they are genuinely struggling.
Whether schools and teachers have the resources and time to do that is another question, but it's certainly an issue worth looking into.
Like which? The subjects I mainly remember having homework in (English, German, Spanish, Maths) were absolutely vital to my learning process.
I'm in the "real world" now and public speaking is still the #1 most anxiety-inducing thing I ever have to do. I don't know if I agree with the premise of this thread, but let's not downplay anxiety disorders here.
I struggle to speak in front of even small groups if it's a prepared thing.
I'm fine off the cuff, but knowing I'm going to have to speak makes me feel ergh.
So I completely emphasise with those who have fears about it.
But...its also a vital life skill and kids should be encouraged to do it where possible. Those diagnosed and seeking help should be exempt and reasonable allowances made, of course.
I'm fine off the cuff, but knowing I'm going to have to speak makes me feel ergh.
So I completely emphasise with those who have fears about it.
But...its also a vital life skill and kids should be encouraged to do it where possible. Those diagnosed and seeking help should be exempt and reasonable allowances made, of course.
You cannot avoid anxiety in life.It's not fucking possible.
If such simple public speaking scares you that much they how the hell will you handle adult life?
I do agree group projects are mostly bullshit, at least until late university years.
It's usually two people who care about doing it carrying everyone else, they should be protesting that.
If such simple public speaking scares you that much they how the hell will you handle adult life?
I do agree group projects are mostly bullshit, at least until late university years.
It's usually two people who care about doing it carrying everyone else, they should be protesting that.
Do you know we had some directive instructing teachers to never give children homework at some time ?
Obviously not well dude, that's the point. Especially with attitudes like that.
Because it's a necessary skill for the real world? And if you can't do it when you leave school, unless you go into a manual labour job you are pretty fucked?
(Please don't think I'm being cold, read my post above. I know these things are terrifying, but they are a critical part of education nonetheless.)
Again, let's not downplay anxiety disorders. I've been doing presentations my whole life, and even today at age 25 nothing gives me stress and anxiety as much as knowing I have an oral presentation on something coming up.
Teenagers whining about school work has nothing to do with laziness?
No one will know you're a "fire-ass" coder unless you present your skills well to your higher-ups. In fact the ones deciding your salary probably can't even tell good code from bad ones.
Yeah I'm probably talking out of my ass. I haven't been in school for a long time.
I think it's important to reinforce concepts at home, but I remember doing 2-3 hours of homework a night fairly consistently, and that always struck me as too much to put on kids.
Oh fucking please.
Practically everyone gets nervous about public speaking, including adults into old age; it's something you have to deal with. High school is a good time to practice it before you get out into the working world. My legs were like jelly the first few times I had to do it...you get over it eventually. Hell, I still get a bit nervous every time I have to lead a conference call at work, especially because I have a mild case of Tourette Syndrome I have to do it though, so I deal with it.
I could see granting a pass for students who have actual, diagnosed cases, and who are being medicated and/or receiving therapy for it. Other than those cases, get up there and speak.
Practically everyone gets nervous about public speaking, including adults into old age; it's something you have to deal with. High school is a good time to practice it before you get out into the working world. My legs were like jelly the first few times I had to do it...you get over it eventually. Hell, I still get a bit nervous every time I have to lead a conference call at work, especially because I have a mild case of Tourette Syndrome I have to do it though, so I deal with it.
I could see granting a pass for students who have actual, diagnosed cases, and who are being medicated and/or receiving therapy for it. Other than those cases, get up there and speak.
Speaking as someone who generally hates speaking in front of groups, I would jump at the opportunity to not have to if it was an option. But I also know that experiencing it and coming out the other side is the best way to become more comfortable in those situations. Experiential avoidance isn't good and only leads to more difficulty down the line. Kids should still be required to present in front of the class unless their anxiety is crippling, imo. Then again there are a lot of teens out there with very high levels of un-diagnosed anxiety...but that's a whole other conversation.
Yup. Exactly this. And while we've all been talking about the benefits that come from public speaking, there are also the benefits from failing at it. Presentation critiques like speaking louder, having better posture/body language, engaging your audience, organizing your points, etc. are all things that once you know you need to improve on and do can transfer to general life, not just presentations. Failing is good. Being scared every now and then is good. Being bad at things is an essential learning experiences. Seems like people are trying to remove all discomfort from school with stuff like this. It would be a huge mistake, in my opinion.
I remember the first time I did public speaking in front of my class, cold sweat, narrow field of vision, trembling hands and felt Ill pass out. Well, since then I have done it many times, still get anxiety and nervous but its manageable. Most people are afraid of public speaking.
These kids are shooting themselves in to foot by giving in to that anxiety instead of just going through it. It wont ever go away but it will become easier. Teacher should maybe make the enviroment more compassionate and make it clear that it's ok to stumble in your words and be afraid. Maybe ease in to it by going in front of the class and say few sentenced many times in a row befire making the actual presentation. Doing it coldly is intimidatimg.
These kids are shooting themselves in to foot by giving in to that anxiety instead of just going through it. It wont ever go away but it will become easier. Teacher should maybe make the enviroment more compassionate and make it clear that it's ok to stumble in your words and be afraid. Maybe ease in to it by going in front of the class and say few sentenced many times in a row befire making the actual presentation. Doing it coldly is intimidatimg.
That would depend on what specifically they are "whining" about. In this case the answer is quite clearly no
Yeah.....no. Disagree with this. Unless you do have some strong anxiety related issue (and no, being nervous is not it, that's normal, we all went through that) there is absolutely no damn reason to abolish this. In-class presentations are one of those skills you'll be glad you learned to do if you have a job that requires leading a team, speaking to bunch of higher ups on a constant basis, speaking to the general public and more.
Again, we all get nervous. Getting older doesn't really help, especially when you're doing important presentations (like pitching a new idea or project at your workplace for example) that may have an impact on your professional life. But the only place where you can learn how to fight through those nerves and do them properly with minimal consequences is at school.
Edit:
If you do have some strong anxiety related issue, then yes, a different option should be provided (one that isn't a handout hopefully) but you should still try to learn how to do these regardless. You never know when you might have to use this skill in your worklife.
Again, we all get nervous. Getting older doesn't really help, especially when you're doing important presentations (like pitching a new idea or project at your workplace for example) that may have an impact on your professional life. But the only place where you can learn how to fight through those nerves and do them properly with minimal consequences is at school.
Edit:
If you do have some strong anxiety related issue, then yes, a different option should be provided (one that isn't a handout hopefully) but you should still try to learn how to do these regardless. You never know when you might have to use this skill in your worklife.
Those with anxiety issues should be afforded an opportunity to help themselves work through these issues and get on a path to overcoming them. Like presenting in-class, which is markedly less stressful and anxiety-inducing than the multitude of times they'll have to do it on the job. All students should have to present in front of their peers, and answer questions on their work from them. I do not buy this 'two tier' exclusion system.
I can't argue against your personal experience. However, can you really say that this is a regular occurrence that stalks the average (competent) employee at the average workplace? This is not a problem I've heard being associated with nurses, for example. Mainly because they use a different structure.
As somebody with anxiety disorder, I have to disagree with this. Doing things out of your comfort zone is what allows you to grow. So whats the plan? Avoid anything that makes you uncomfortable? Good luck on job interviews, dates, work presentations, etc.
We understand, doing presentations in front of the class sucks, but the purpose is just about getting a good grade, its also about developing other skills. No one should dismiss anxiety, its very real and can be crippling , however sometimes the realities of life get in the way and some things you just have to work through as best you can.
We understand, doing presentations in front of the class sucks, but the purpose is just about getting a good grade, its also about developing other skills. No one should dismiss anxiety, its very real and can be crippling , however sometimes the realities of life get in the way and some things you just have to work through as best you can.