• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

TigerBear

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
56
We don't have a massive thread on this board dedicated to troubling representations of oversexualized men in games. We do with women. There's a pretty clear reason for that.

There's plenty to argue about toxic representations of masculinity in this industry, but that is not the same with how we talk about sexist and objectifying depictions of women.

So sure, you have your exceptions that get tossed around almost half-jokingly like "sexy bearded Ryu," but no. But this industry is still centered around male-gazey and regressive representations of women. For all intents and purposes, it's pretty fucking one-sided. Unless you're going to tell me Kratos means "men are just as objectified", which no... really not the case.

1: This board is not indicative of anything going on in society.
2: I don't understand you second point.
3: Representation of women is not regressive, it's actually more progressive towards open sexuality compare to the past. Unless you consider regressive as being less conservative. Objectification has stay the same and will do so for as long as a man desires women and vice versa.
4: Kratos could be considered as being objectified for his "masculinity," just like Bayonetta for her "femininity." Again, objectification is how one human being views another, unavoidable and in a way a matter of perspective.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
No, it fucking isn't. Stop being obtuse and pay attention. And where the fuck did I say anything about aimed at young teenagers? It's aimed at adults. Pay attention on the franchise and on the very commercial that you bring it up. Pay attention on how children were playing older DQ and adults were playing the newer DQ to show the evolution of the series and the people around the series. It's obvious and you're in negation like that. Ridiculous.
What am I obtuse about. You're actually trolling even arguing how this game is not aimed at a larger age group and only aimed at adults.
 
Based on the content, they would be justified for arguing for change. This is more arguing for the sake of doing it.

That's kind of the crux of the argument, though. A lot of women (not even going to attempt to suggest a ratio) enjoy playing sleek, scantily clad characters. Why shouldn't they inherently get a say in how they're represented as a consumer demographic?
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,164
Greater Vancouver
1: This board is not indicative of anything going on in society.
2: I don't understand you second point.
3: Representation of women is not regressive, it's actually more progressive towards open sexuality compare to the past. Unless you consider regressive as being less conservative. Objectification has stay the same and will do so for as long as a man desires women and vice versa.
4: Kratos could be considered as being objectified for his "masculinity," just like Bayonetta for her "femininity." Again, objectification is how one human being views another, unavoidable and in a way a matter of perspective.
Women don't deal with objectification in society? Putting women in a compromising position against her will to be leered at by creepy old man is not "more progressive."

Also holy shit, are you for real with the Kratos thing? lol
 

Filament Star

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,817
The character gets zero agency in that quest. The thing you might be confusing is that it is not the player character who is asked to put on the costume, but a party NPC. If you choose to play that quest, she makes it very clear that she doesn't like wearing it.

It's a video game. the people you murder in Call of Duty also make it very clear that they don't want to die.
 

TigerBear

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
56
Women don't deal with objectification in society? Putting women in a compromising position against her will to be leered at by creepy old man is not "more progressive."

Also holy shit, are you for real with the Kratos thing? lol
So do men, as it is nature. Yes about Kratos, you brought it up by the way. If you can't handle it, don't bring it up.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
What am I obtuse about. You're actually trolling even arguing how this game is not aimed at a larger age group and only aimed at adults.

I'm trolling because you're like this? Seriously? You're the one who have no idea how the game is marketed and known in Japan and is talking like that and I'm the one? lmao And where the fuck did I say that it's only aimed at adults? I said that it's aimed at adults, not that it's a series only for them.

Like what the fuck are you even talking about. If you played the series you know that those elements are on the franchise for many iterations. The fucking sexual jokes are present there. The costumes are present there. The bunny girls are present there for ages. The puff puff is there since the beginning. The fucking character designer is the author of Dragon Ball and Dr. Slump in which he has the same humor and characters actually using bunny suits as well. Now, even if those games were aimed at children, the actual content of the game since the beginning have this and this isn't something that you see actually aimed for children like Yokai Watch, Pokémon and many other games.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,164
Greater Vancouver
So do men, as it is nature. Yes about Kratos, you brought it up by the way. If you can't handle it, don't bring it up.
Nowhere to the same degree, and power dynamics work clearly in favor of most men. You're grossly downplaying pretty fucking common concerns around how women are treated by media.

Because Kratos as a violent screaming ball of rage doesn't quite have the same appeal as Bayonetta dancing with a booty shot for the camera.


And either way, Jade, unlike Bayonetta, isn't played up here as being in a position of power. She's there to be leered at for some creepy old dude.
 

Talon

Banned
Jan 15, 2018
66
Whether or not you agree with that is up to you - I'm just attempting to present you the arguement so that you might see where people like me are coming from. To be fair, I see where you're coming from, as well. It would just help me stomach it a little bit easier if the confidence she demonstrated while wearing the bunny suit in some of her pep skills was backed up by her in-game persona.

I think part of the deal is that we know so little about the characters outside of what drives them and a few very minor details here and there mostly played for laughs. It's impressive that I finished act 2 last night and felt they worked well as a group of friends despite knowing so little.

I guess I don't see too much of an issue with it though because I see Jade as a mature woman - she's got a whole eight or so years on the MC. She's likely around 25 or 26. On top of that, she seems to use her femininity to her advantage - in fact, this is constant of women throughout the whole game. The men are usually played as somewhat dumb in the face of charming women
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
I'm trolling because you're like this? Seriously? You're the one who have no idea how the game is marketed and known in Japan and is talking like that and I'm the one? lmao And where the fuck did I say that it's only aimed at adults? I said that it's aimed at adults, not that it's a series only for them.

Like what the fuck are you even talking about. If you played the series you know that those elements are on the franchise for many iterations. The fucking sexual jokes are present there. The costumes are present there. The bunny girls are present there for ages. The puff puff is there since the beginning. The fucking character designer is the author of Dragon Ball and Dr. Slump in which he has the same humor and characters actually using bunny suits as well. Now, even if those games were aimed at children, the actual content of the game since the beginning have this and this isn't something that you see actually aimed for children like Yokai Watch, Pokémon and many other games.
You're trolling cause you actually ignore how the ad advertises towards a broader age group. There is nothing to discuss. You live in fantasy land trying to argue how this game is only aimed at adults. It's fucking laughable. So stop trolling. It also has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

Like rofl the ad shows children playing the old DQ games but somehow those were totally aimed at adults only.

?????? It actually hurts my head how little sense this makes.
 

TigerBear

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
56
Nowhere to the same degree, and power dynamics work clearly in favor of most men.

Because Kratos as a violent screaming ball of rage doesn't quite have the same appeal as Bayonetta dancing with a booty shot for the camera.
Well, you can't say for sure whether it is the same degree or not, but I agree probably not.
You mean Kratos, the god of masculinity does not have the same appeal to some women in Brooklyn? I wouldn't make that bet.
 

John Harker

Knows things...
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,348
Santa Destroy
More than cringe worthy, it's offensive and slightly insulting (to my sensibilities).

Then again, I played through Xenoblade 2, and a Lott more of that was straight pained
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,290
Well yea that outfit is obvious overly-sexualized. Stockings are fine and all but her dress doesn't even cover her much above her anything below her crotch.

Also we really need to stop having dumb sidequests like this in games to justify these outfits. If you wanna cater to people who want sexualized outfits like that go for it and add that shit as paid dlc or something. Just don't shoehorn in some dumb quest to justify it.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,164
Greater Vancouver
Well, you can't say for sure whether it is the same degree or not, but I agree probably not.
You mean Kratos, the god of masculinity does not have the same appeal to some women in Brooklyn? I wouldn't make that bet.
Kratos isn't the god of masculinity. He's the god of war, in that he's most famous for violently ripping people apart and covering the screen in viscera. Yeah, I'm going to say most women in Brooklyn aren't crazy about fucking a petulant, irrational serial killer.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
You're trolling cause you actually ignore how the ad advertises towards a broader age group. There is nothing to discuss. You live in fantasy land trying to argue how this game is only aimed at adults. It's fucking laughable. So stop trolling. It also has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

Like rofl the ad shows children playing the old DQ games but somehow those were totally aimed at adults only.

?????? It actually hurts my head how little sense this makes.

hahaha Jesus Christ, you're actually completely obtuse. Even more when you ignored everything that I just said about the series like it's something that just began with this new game.

And I just said that it's a game aimed at adults, not only at adults. The majority of the public of DQ is adult, not children. Those were children of decades ago which played the games and are still playing. It's why the CM is made in that way of showing children of the 80s and 90s playing the games and adults playing newer games. It don't mean that it's ONLY for adults but the CM is made to call nostalgia on the public. I don't know how the hell you can't see that, even more in the context of the series. lmao
 

TigerBear

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
56
User Banned (Permanent): Sexism. Junior account.
Kratos isn't the god of masculinity. He's the god of war, in that he's most famous for violently ripping people apart and covering the screen in viscera. Yeah, I'm going to say most women in Brooklyn aren't crazy about fucking a petulant, irrational serial killer.
Well that only shows how much you know about women. Kratos is masculinity personified, violence, rage, proclivity towards destruction all come from heightened testosterone. Who wages war, women? I think not.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
hahaha Jesus Christ, you're actually completely obtuse. Even more when you ignored everything that I just said about the series like it's something that just began with this new game.

And I just said that it's a game aimed at adults, not only at adults. The majority of the public of DQ is adult, not children. Those were children of decades ago which played the games and are still playing. It's why the CM is made in that way of showing children of the 80s and 90s playing the games and adults playing newer games. It don't mean that it's ONLY for adults but the CM is made to call nostalgia on the public. I don't know how the hell you can't see that, even more in the context of the series. lmao

How do you say in the same breath these are children of decades ago that played the games as children. And then somehow make this huge argument that the series is
actually mainly aimed at adults.

All I said was that the sidequest in question is kinda fucked in a way given that these games are aimed at children too before you went on this whole tirade. Nothing fucking obtuse about anything I said. Heck the only obtuse and sketchy thing here is how you answered in a way that seems to somehow assume that the sidequest somehow becomes no biggie since the game is aimed at adults. I don't even fucking know what the point of your idiotic bet was???? Like what was the point of that???? What has future DQ games continuing to have stuff like this in the game have anything to do with what I said???

And to be clear my argument was never DQ is only aimed at children but it is unquestionable also aimed at children. I already said this in other post it's an ALL AGES game.

Like how and why again did you go on this fucking argument that has nothing to do with anything? It's actually mystifying.
 

Common Knowledge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,241
Well that only shows how much you know about women. Kratos is masculinity personified, violence, rage, proclivity towards destruction all come from heightened testosterone. Who wages war, women? I think not.

I have no clue what the heck is going on in this post. Are you trying to say that women are attracted to men who are violent and kill people?
 

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,398
Go to literally any nerd convention.
Hahahahahaha, holy shit

You cannot possibly believe this
Well that only shows how much you know about women. Kratos is masculinity personified, violence, rage, proclivity towards destruction all come from heightened testosterone. Who wages war, women? I think not.
giphy.gif

This thread, man.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
How do you say in the same breath these are children of decades ago that played the games as children. And then somehow make this huge argument that the series is
actually mainly aimed at adults.

Not to familiar with the games but the idea of a series following its aging audience isn't unheard of and later entries maturing with them would be expected in such a scenario.

Hahahahahaha, holy shit

You cannot possibly believe this

Why not, do you think there is some sort of coercive force at work there?
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Go to any convention and note the signs everywhere that say "cosplay is not consent" in regards to being groped, harrassed, and photographed without warning, There's no shortage of cosplayers who've fallen away from the hobby because they really don't want to deal with shitty creeps anymore.
Okay? That's not part of what was being asked, and not what I was responding to.
 

TigerBear

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
56
The term "toxic masculinity" exists for a reason

Also wtf at that last part. Yes, women in power are still capable of waging war.
Toxic is a funny way to put it, but I will grant you that. Women in power is capable of waging war, case in point, Empress of China, Wu Zhe Tian, but the argument on that point is still on my side, history is on my side.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,240
4: Kratos could be considered as being objectified for his "masculinity," just like Bayonetta for her "femininity." Again, objectification is how one human being views another, unavoidable and in a way a matter of perspective.

You're so close to getting it.

Bayonetta is a male sex fantasy.
Kratos is a male power fantasy.

Both of them are designed with the same intent: to appeal to an instinct in "men", as defined by patriarchal gender roles.

So while this reads like a lame attempt at "But Kratos is objectified for female audiences", which is both wrong and tired, it's actually somewhat exciting because you're close to an actual breakthrough.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
How do you say in the same breath these are children of decades ago that played the games as children. And then somehow make this huge argument that the series is
actually mainly aimed at adults.

All I said was that the sidequest in question is kinda fucked in a way given that these games are aimed at children too before you went on this whole tirade. Nothing fucking obtuse about anything I said. Heck the only obtuse and sketchy thing here is how you answered in a way that seems to somehow assume that the sidequest somehow becomes no biggie since the game is aimed at adults.

And to be clear my argument was never DQ is only aimed at children but it is unquestionable also aimed at children. I already said this in other post it's an ALL AGES game.

Like how and why again did you go on this fucking argument that has nothing to do with anything? It's actually mystifying.

The series is NOW aimed at adults, not how it was in the beginning. And I love how you're ignoring all my points about how the franchise aimed at children has so many elements. I pointed that out and you ignored, I reminded you and you ignored. The franchise has everything that I mentioned since the beginning and on multiple iterations and you're acting as if this is something that only began recently when it's there for decades.

And goddammit, I didn't said that it fucking make it justifiable. I don't even like the fucking sidequest. I'm losing my time with this stupid discussion trying to say to you that for people in Japan those elements aren't a negative. The joke, the costume, those fucking elements aren't seem in that way at all. Hell, Jade being extremely popular as she was and with people using the costumes of all things just reinforces this. If you want to know how they feel, just search for it on japanese internet or hell, contact someone who lives in Japan about this.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
Not to familiar with the games but the idea of a series following its aging audience isn't unheard of and later entries maturing with them would be expected in such a scenario.



Why not, do you think there is some sort of coercive force at work there?
Ok so you really think this franchise actually only markets towards adults now? Are we real? You've seen the aesthetic? You've got a sense of the tone?
You really want to unironically make the argument that this game is not marketed towards children as well?
Again it's an all ages game and the ad I posted highlight this, that's really where any discussion stops in my mind.
The series is NOW aimed at adults, not how it was in the beginning. And I love how you're ignoring all my points about how the franchise aimed at children has so many elements. I pointed that out and you ignored, I reminded you and you ignored. The franchise has everything that I mentioned since the beginning and on multiple iterations and you're acting as if this is something that only began recently when it's there for decades.

And goddammit, I didn't said that it fucking make it justifiable. I don't even like the fucking sidequest. I'm losing my time with this stupid discussion trying to say to you that for people in Japan those elements aren't a negative. The joke, the costume, those fucking elements aren't seem in that way at all. Hell, Jade being extremely popular as she was and with people using the costumes of all things just reinforces this. If you want to know how they feel, just search for it on japanese internet or hell, contact someone who lives in Japan about this.

Yes only aimed at adults no child ever will play DQ11. It actually hurts me how idiotic this continues to be.
Still trying to unironically argue how this game is not aimed towards all ages. Unbelievable. Also makes financially total sense for square to only exclusively market this game towards adults and totally exclude children from their marketing intentions cause who needs a new generation of buyers for their games.

*facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm*

I still can't believe this shit why are we arguing this. Again the ad targets all ages whether you want to accept this or not in your fantasy land. I look over your post and you unironically cite dragon ball and dr. slump as pieces of work targeting adults stuff that was in shonen jump a magazin totally for an adult demographic/s *facepalm number 4* this shit is unreal. We don't seem to even to live in the same reality where apparently Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z weren't thing with huge followings of young children.
 
Last edited:

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,398
Why not, do you think there is some sort of coercive force at work there?
What are you even saying? They want to dress up as their favourite character without being ogled, groped, hit on, harassed, stalked, etc. No shit many wouldn't be comfortable wearing that stuff to a comic book convention, considering the frequency of which that happens.
 

sph3re

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
8,398
Some women dress up in sexy costumes because they find it empowering. And you can find them at nerd conventions.

Yes, I believe it.
I think Khanimus did a better job of explaining the point than I would do here:

Go to any convention and note the signs everywhere that say "cosplay is not consent" in regards to being groped, harrassed, and photographed without warning, There's no shortage of cosplayers who've fallen away from the hobby because they really don't want to deal with shitty creeps anymore.
I'm sure many find it empowering, but there are plenty more who don't want to deal with the harassment it brings them.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Ok so you really think this franchise actually only markets towards adults now? Are we real? You've seen the aesthetic? You've got a sense of the tone?
Only? No, a sale is a sale and franchises tend to not do well when only catering to literally dying playerbases. That said the add appears to be appealing hard in that very direction by appealing to those now adults through their childhood experiences with the game rather to current children. You see the kids playing on old CRTs and looking things up on long prior versions of the game after all.

What are you even saying? They want to dress up as their favourite character without being ogled, groped, hit on, harassed, stalked, etc. No shit many wouldn't be comfortable wearing that stuff to a comic book convention, considering the frequency of which that happens.
No one said they liked being groped, harassed or hit on. It was argued that some could view it as empowering and chose to do so for that reason.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
I think Khanimus did a better job of explaining the point than I would do here:


I'm sure many find it empowering, but there are plenty more who don't want to deal with the harassment it brings them.
Agreed. And the post that started this was asking about how we should address women who feel empowered by this sort of thing when their feelings conflict with women who feel the opposite. Someone said they'd like to meet someone who wanted to dress up like this in public (implying there were none), and I said go to a nerd convention.

You're sure many find it empowering, but you responded to my post with this:
Hahahahahaha, holy shit

You cannot possibly believe this

giphy.gif

This thread, man.
?
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
Only? No, a sale is a sale and franchises tend to not do well when catering to literally dying playerbases. That said the add appears to be appealing hard in that very direction by appealing to those now adults through their childhood experiences with the game rather to current children. You see the kids playing on old CRTs and looking things up on long prior versions of the game after all.
I mean then there is really not argument between us here. The other guy is actually arguing how this is mainly aimed at adults and not children AT ALL.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Ok so you really think this franchise actually only markets towards adults now? Are we real? You've seen the aesthetic? You've got a sense of the tone?
You really want to unironically make the argument that this game is not marketed towards children as well?
Again it's an all ages game and the ad I posted highlight this, that's really where any discussion stops in my mind.


Yes only aimed at adults no child ever will play DQ11. It actually hurts me how idiotic this continues to be.
Still trying to unironically argue how this game is not aimed towards all ages. Unbelievable. Also makes financially total sense for square to only exclusively market this game towards adults and totally exclude children from their marketing intentions cause who needs a new generation of buyers for their games.

*facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm*

I still can't believe this shit why are we arguing this. Again the ad targets all ages whether you want to accept this or not in your fantasy land.

hahaha it's unbelievable. You're really ignoring the very fact that the franchise have those elements since it's inception. You're not even trying to counter argument it. I don't even know why.

And jesus, are you stupid or what? It's a game aimed at adults who played the series, children and teenagers are an afterthought and they'll be influenced by their parents. How many times I have to say this? The fact that you insist on the aesthetic of Toriyama of all things when those are much more present on older people than children and Toriyama himself is the reason puff puff and many things pay homage to his works is laughable. You talk about the tone but complete ignore the many sexual elements of the franchise that I mentioned. It's a complete joke.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
I mean then there is really not argument between us here. The other guy is actually arguing how this is mainly aimed at adults and not children AT ALL.

Fucking hell, I never never said this haha I said that DQ is aimed at adults for decades and the many sexual elements are there even when the series was aimed at actual kids. I never said anything that it's ONLY for adults, just that they market it and makes it for adults who played the franchise in the infancy. Also, if it's not fucking clear, I'm pointing the contradiction of your point in how such sidequest shouldn't be there in a game "aimed at children" but at the same time has so many sexual elements on it, which of course, you keep ignoring like crazy.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
I mean then there is really not argument between us here. The other guy is actually arguing how this is mainly aimed at adults and not children AT ALL.
Yes and no, I'm arguing we should expect a difference in tone from something aimed at or expected to be primarily marketed to children vs something children of a certain age could be reasonably expected to consume but are not the core audience.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
hahaha it's unbelievable. You're really ignoring the very fact that the franchise have those elements since it's inception. You're not even trying to counter argument it. I don't even know why.

And jesus, are you stupid or what? It's a game aimed at adults who played the series, children and teenagers are an afterthought and they'll be influenced by their parents. How many times I have to say this? The fact that you insist on the aesthetic of Toriyama of all things when those are much more present on older people than children and Toriyama himself is the reason puff puff and many things pay homage to his works is laughable. You talk about the tone but complete ignore the many sexual elements of the franchise that I mentioned. It's a complete joke.
You don't make a lick of sense. Again another argument that leans into this all becomes ok just cause it's aimed at adults(which is still nonsense) and it was part of the franchise since forever or something. Actual arguments that have nothing to do with anything and just throw a huge question mark about your motivations in continuing this argument in this fashion. Keep on.
Yes and no, I'm arguing we should expect a difference in tone from something aimed at or expected to be primarily marketed to children vs something children of a certain age could be reasonably expected to consume but are not the core audience.

And my argument is maybe we should be mindful of the type of content we include when a part of our demographic of consumers are actually very young children. Cause it kinda throws the question if it isn't exactly content like this that warps the perception of gamers in regards to sexism and the like. Not this specific thing alone but given how prevalent these type of things are as content in games maybe and maybe I'm crazy here it adds to the problem. Hence we should be able to point these things out have a grown up discussion about it that isn't just dismissive from the get go especially given that we aren't exactly lacking of examples of sexism affecting developers at the work place or just online gaming in general.

Like to spell out the sidequest again. It's making a joke out of how this character needs to dress uncomfortably to be leered at by a geezer.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
User banned (1 day) for repeated hostility and personal attacks
You don't make a lick of sense. Again another argument that leans into this all becomes ok just cause it's aimed at adults(which is still nonsense) and it was part of the franchise since forever or something. Actual arguments that have nothing to do with anything and just throw a huge question mark about your motivations in continuing this argument in this fashion. Keep on.

It's amazing how obtuse and stupid you are. Just amazing. I'll just stop with this ridiculous discussion because I'm talking with a door for two hours and I don't want to get an warning because of you.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
Well that only shows how much you know about women. Kratos is masculinity personified, violence, rage, proclivity towards destruction all come from heightened testosterone. Who wages war, women? I think not.
Given most of my friends are women, and I've seen a lot of girls speak on their preferences on this forum, lemme tell you something dude (and a woman can correct me if they want). The vast majority of girls into games that actually can find rendered/drawn fictional characters hot, I've noticed, are into guys like Cloud, Leon, or Tidus. Muscular, sure, but more fit like an athlete than a body builder, and often slim. Heck, at times, not even muscular at all. They vary facially from pretty to handsome, but never hypermasculine beyond some stubble or facial hair. Generally also NOT the kind to answer problems with violence first. I mean a few do like violent guys, but generally those gals also like more monstrous or weird looking characters rather than your raging, angry Kratos. Like, Devilman or Venom or something.

That said I've seen a lot of people into Dad!Kratos, but for the rest of the series he's definitely not attractive to most women. Personality factors into attractiveness to a lot of people, especially women who aren't really trained from birth to look at potential partners' aesthetics alone as men are. And so, Kratos, who is an abusive asshole and a representation of men's power fantasies, is just... not hot.

Also lmao, you do know there are several cultures where women fought and fight right alongside men too, right? The samurai for centuries taught women to fight, for instance. While they didn't go to war, they were indispensable parts of defending their homes in wartime. And quite effective- there are several stories of a group of 30 or so women fighters armed with bows and naginata scaring off much larger armies. Embellished, perhaps, but speaks to how the Japanese of the time thought of women warriors- quite highly. I mean shit, the "women's weapon", the naginata, was also known as the "monk's weapon" (who trained hard and got either VERY strong or VERY skilled compared to typical samurai) because of how heavy it was. That was NOT something you just picked up one day and could effectively use without training.

Several mythologies beyond those that actually trained women themselves feature women warriors. Amazons, Valkyries, and so on. I mean, shit, Athena is a God of War as much as Ares is. She's just the smart, planning part of warfare, while he's the "go in swinging in a berserk rage" part. Don't let our modern monolith "western culture"'s sensibilities color your worldview. Just because it, and several other cultures admittedly, decided to pigeonhole women, doesn't mean they're incapable of training to fight at an adequate level, or whatever you're getting at.

I know you're temp-banned so maybe it's not fair to response but I saw fit to respond for others who may agree with you. Because wow. Lots to unpack here.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
It's amazing how obtuse and stupid you are. Just amazing. I'll just stop with this ridiculous discussion because I'm talking with a door for two hours and I don't want to get an warning because of you.
Lol, keeps calling me obtuse I have severe doubts that you know what the words means. I don't think I could have been ever been clearer and repeatedly so. The only one that should stop being obtuse is you and ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish here in this argument.

Cause again I don't see what the reason is making this nonsense argument about how this game is not aimed at children at all except to somehow disarm my statement of how the sidequest is kinda fucked up given that the game is also aimed at children. Which doesn't work at all given that the sidequest still remains kinda fucked up even assuming it was only aimed at adults.
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
And my argument is maybe we should be mindful of the type of content we include when a part of our demographic of consumers are actually very young children.
Should the demographic include young children or should we do a better job of curating what young children play rather than tailoring content to them the isn't intended for them?
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
Should the demographic include young children or should we do a better job of curating what young children play rather than tailoring content to them the isn't intended for them?
Yes to the latter? Don't know what the former has to do with anything. It's not us who decides the demographic. It's the people making the game/marketing it or the government putting age restrictions on it.

But again this goes away from the fact that the sidequest is pretty questionable no matter the demographic but it's especially questionable given that it's unquestionably played by young children as well.

Edit: removed cursing in an effort to return to a more chill tone.