eh, whatever if he found it cringy and not funny. it's like just a line in the review.
i like the outfit tho
don't worry, it doesn't
i like the outfit tho
don't worry, it doesn't
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IGN DQXI review mentions "cringe-worthy" sexualization. Angry Joe chimes in. Let's talk about it.
- Thread starter Vex
- Start date
No? I'm saying that in Japan those broader audience is already way broader. Hell, it's only behind Pokémon in sales and popularity. The franchise is known even by people who never touched the game. The game makes all of it's profits and revenue from japan alone.
If you're talking about the west, this is an afterthought and the series never will surpass or even reach Japan because it don't resonate with western in many of it's elements and changing those elements means changing DQ itself, which in that case, they obviously don't want to lose the huge public they have for a series of that magnitude.
Wow... this fucking thread.
I wouldn't have said that the sexualization is that nuts in DQXI. I would say it is more tasteful than the average JRPG (which isn't a super high bar these days). That being said, there are definitely examples where the game is clearly trying to tantalize. There is nothing wrong with calling that out. In fact, I think calling it out, even if just as an aside, is the responsible thing to do. What a dumb battle for Angry Joe to fight. What a dumb battle for so many of the people in this thread to have fought...
Why shouldn't people simply call a spade a spade? Why do people need to dance around the subject and throw every lazy excuse in the book at it in some desperate attempt to minimize it? Why is some dude on youtube, with a shockingly large following, compelled to make a video arguing against it? It is a bad look, guys.
I wouldn't have said that the sexualization is that nuts in DQXI. I would say it is more tasteful than the average JRPG (which isn't a super high bar these days). That being said, there are definitely examples where the game is clearly trying to tantalize. There is nothing wrong with calling that out. In fact, I think calling it out, even if just as an aside, is the responsible thing to do. What a dumb battle for Angry Joe to fight. What a dumb battle for so many of the people in this thread to have fought...
Why shouldn't people simply call a spade a spade? Why do people need to dance around the subject and throw every lazy excuse in the book at it in some desperate attempt to minimize it? Why is some dude on youtube, with a shockingly large following, compelled to make a video arguing against it? It is a bad look, guys.
This particular quest is, but it doesn't involve puff puff, which is what you were originally calling a tired old sexist joke.
So you think a costume that exists just to be titillating helps or hurts a series reach the mainstream in other countries? You don't think it might confirm perceptions people have about Japanese games? I think stuff like this just takes away from what is apparently a pretty great game. We're not having a broader conversation about the story or the mechanics of the game. We're now talking about needless sexualization. It undermines a lot of the discussion and perception of the product and it could be completely avoided. Same thing happened with MGS V and I love that game.
There's nothing 'shit stirring' about an author commenting on something they didn't care for in the game in their personal review of it.
Angry Joe is either completely ignorant to his reach and who this type of comment appeals to or he knows exactly what his comment set out to accomplish. Either is shitty. I like Joe, too.
I am talking about the West since it was an American review. S-E probably cares about the game doing better than it historically has or it wouldn't localize the game in the first place.
The scene in Dragonball was technically with Oolong, but Roshi is still a PoS and the point still stands. (this post is more or less a clarification for the whole Bulma part and where the puff puff came from)
It is also fun to remember that Bulma is, like, sixteen in Dragon Ball. Oh the illustrious origins of Puff-Puff... >_>
I think the important thing to remember here is that the review calls out the outfit and the associated quest. I certainly find the idea of dressing a lady up as a sexy bunny at the behest of a pervy old man "cringe worthy".
You're free to criticize both. If you refuse to even talk about it, nothing changes.
"Turtle I've seen her poop, she knows what I'm about".
I feel like we're going in circles at this point.
I feel puff puff is a tired old sexist joke that objectifies women.
I feel like the quest also objectifies women.
If the entirey of the quest has a character complaining about how much they don't want to complete it, then why put it in the game?
"Oh I don't like doing this but because it's a game I will but I just want you to know how awful it is" seems like you just don't need it.
Does it add any context? Does it add any meaningful character development?
Does Puff-Puff?
Yeah, this part disappointed me. I'm generally a fan of Joe, but this reach feels really opportunistic.
You see it a lot on politically partisan websites where they'll run a story about how "the other side has gone crazy again". The story is usually an extreme or atypical example of a real issue. A straw-man whose low-hanging-fruit lets the readers make fun of or pearl-clutch as needed. Either way they get to feel superior without having to genuinely address the core issue at all.
Surprised to see Joe grabbing for that kind of attention.
Because this is the sort of content they like, and they're scared of it being taken away from them.
Rather than taking the L and admitting they like bad things (it happens to all of us), they spend all their energy trying to convince everyone else that it can't really be bad.
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Seems to be about both but yeah. I do agree the quest definitely could have been better, but Jade is such a strong character it doesn't come off like she was forced or anything. I was done with the flavor text so quick I didn't really give it the time of day.
It's going in circles because you're kinda arguing two different things at once.
Stuff doesn't have to add meaningful character development to be put in a game. Puff puff is still around because it's a running thing in DQ. I would have preferred if this particular quest had not been in the game, but I don't see the issue with puff puff. The puff puff NPC's proposition you for it, not the other way around. It's a harmless enough tradition in the games.
This quest is a different discussion altogether though. You probably feel like you're going in circles because you used an argument that applies to this quest when you quoted someone just mentioning puff puff. They're separate things.
Just to clarify though, this part:
Isn't really how goes down. There's no input from Jade until you actually complete the quest, which ends with her sighing and walking away from the creeper. I thought the whole quest was really uncomfortable, but I did appreciate that in the end Jade wasn't having any of it.
Stupid ass quest though.
Because they want to examine and deconstruct sexist stereotypes, of course~
...Or because they wanted an excuse to have a Playboy bunny outfit. We'll never know which one it is!
"pervy dude on the beach who wants to see a girl in a bunny suit"
That's a blatant Dragonball reference right?
I actually find Serena's outfit early in the game to be worse. But both of them are way out of character, and that quest sucks. And to the people saying just don't use the outfit.
it's forced on her in the story, and with an ability that makes her stronger. So you kinda can't avoid it.
And in FFXIV another Square Enix game fans have been demanding bunny girl outfits for men for years seems like they can't make anyone happy. Not to simply dismiss it as Japan being Japan but do these kinds of decisions about outfits etc are they Japanese being tone deaf or do they just not care about how how they are viewed outside of Japan?
You're misunderstanding and having a conversation with something else
I didn't say it can't be discussed
I said I don't agree with it being problematic enough in this case to me
I never said you or anyone else had to agree or couldn't talk about it don't conflate two different discussions
Solid points, and it seems like Jared agrees with you for the most part too. If it felt like this one quest somehow completely ruined that character for the rest of the game, he would have had much stronger wording. I kind of wish the OP title could encompass how small of a role this comment played in the actual review. Worth discussing, but I think some are blowing things out of proportion.
I'd certainly argue that saying it "isn't problematic enough" seems darn similar to "let's not even talk about it".
At the very least, they gave guys playboy bunny outfits too.
Though it sort of boils down to, "who is this for" at the end of the day.
Of course they care, but they care much more about the market that sustained the franchise for more than 30 years. There's 71 million of sales with more than the majority of it being from japan.
And DQ not doing better than in the past has nothing to do with this aspect in which many people don't even know that exists but other aspects of the franchise.
No, that's very different than the situation.
She spans various puff puff moves much like her spear moves because those are her moves in the game. And unlike the quest, here she's controlled much like the other characters on octagonia which were turned into monsters. Later after they defeat the monster she still have some of the power of the demon with her and she uses it against him to destroy him in her own.
Jade never complains about it on the game since she never talks about it. We only see her expressions.
Puff-Puff will never be out of the franchise because of tradition. And anyway, a real puff puff isn't on the franchise since like 3. Since then it's fake puff puff with jokes. In the entirety of DQ11 there's 8 puff puff and all of them are jokes in which you don't get any.
So wait, maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are you saying that the issue is not the bunny suit itself, but the quest with the old man? If so, then that's kind of being nitpicky. It's literally only a few seconds of the game and you don't have to do it if it really bothers you.
Let me introduce you to an incredibly modern series called Dragon Quest.
Also, this sexy bunny costume variant is about as tame as what Warchief Sylvanas normally wears.
Do I have a problem with it? No, not even remotely. Can I see some not liking it? Definitely. They can certainly not use that costume, not that it changes anything else in game.
There's nothing wrong with calling it out, but what's the point? There's nothing wrong with it. Calling it out isn't gonna do anything.
That's what I understood reading the thread. It seems the problem is the quest itself and not the costume (even more when there's more costumes than this with the same character and Serena)
I've seen more sexualization in a target sunday ad than this tame costume. I don't see an issue at all.All things considered, it's a fairly modest costume for a bunny outfit. Just kind of leggy and cleavagey.
Okay, because I was going to say that if they had an issue with the bunny suit itself, they are really going to take issue some of the more skimpier outfits like the dangerous bustier or the magic bikini. Though I'm not sure if any of them are in the game yet. I've been to busy with the game to check up on that stuff haha.
At least since III, DQ games have modern casinos with playable slot machines, poker, and other types of gambling (dogfights [with monsters], racing, etc.), and the bunny suit themes have evolved to congregate there. Its existence in the DQ world extends from that whole universe.
I'm just gonna point out that one of the Puff Puffs in thsi game is literally the hero bungee jumping off a cliff. Or, he gets pushed, I guess. There's also one where the girl explains that she was putting make-up on him. And one where they explicitly state that it was a massage.
I'm aware that puff puff is meant to be sexual in nature, but it sort of hasn't been in DQ for quite some time.
They are. But, even things like "Hot Bikini" don't even come remotely close to some of Jessica's. I'd argue that even Jessica's default is far more sexualized.
That's not an excuse, obviously, but I don't believe it's a big deal in this case.
I'm aware that puff puff is meant to be sexual in nature, but it sort of hasn't been in DQ for quite some time.
They are. But, even things like "Hot Bikini" don't even come remotely close to some of Jessica's. I'd argue that even Jessica's default is far more sexualized.
That's not an excuse, obviously, but I don't believe it's a big deal in this case.
It sure beats saying nothing and being disappointed quietly. Voicing your opinions, and your objections, is the only way they are ever going to be heard.
You're right that puff puff isn't sexual on DQ for decades, they're more satire like you pointed. In DQ8 the puff puff was two slimes, for example.
And I'm more pointing out. haha This isn't something that bothers me. And yeah, Jessica was way more, much like her other costumes
I'll be honest.
I was hoping this thread would be about the many leather daddies wearing harnesses and gimp masks when I saw the title.
I was hoping this thread would be about the many leather daddies wearing harnesses and gimp masks when I saw the title.
I would just like to mention that even though it is Joe pointing this out, Joe always came across as a "neutral" personality in the gaming Youtube sphere and that is completely okay in my opinion. Feminism as a whole is often misconstrued in some ways but it pleases me that a neutral personality would condemn the blatant sexism from the Battlefield community when so many others turn their heads or even encourage it. I envision Joe as someone who is not well versed in feminist agenda, hell neither am I honestly, but I genuinely think he is in the wrong here.
Personally, it does not bother me but I can see why women in particular would object to the costume. Context apparently matters here too, maybe visually it might be tame but the apparent quest involved in acquiring the costume seems to implicate her being forced into wearing it. I haven't played DQXI yet so I'm just echoing some of the comments about the quest here.
Personally, it does not bother me but I can see why women in particular would object to the costume. Context apparently matters here too, maybe visually it might be tame but the apparent quest involved in acquiring the costume seems to implicate her being forced into wearing it. I haven't played DQXI yet so I'm just echoing some of the comments about the quest here.
It isn't, and that's even worse of a problem, because now you're making a strawman argument for someone who happens to disagree with you. That's super fucked up.
I disagreed, but I didn't say literally ANYTHING about anyone to ask them to stop talking about it, and frankly it's disgusting you even think like that. Gross.
I welcome an open discussion, doesn't mean I have to agree with anything anyone else says. And I'm not the only one who thinks the costume is relatively tame regardless. But no fucking where in anything I posted told people or even SUGGESTED that they should stop talking about it.
Fucking stupid insinuation.
Eh its optional and just a costume. I don't think its too bad but its fair to criticize. I was expecting half her tits and ass to be hanging out but its nowhere near as bad as I figured by reading the thread title alone, but that in itself may be saying something lol
The story text specifically says she's upset afterward, which is why it's so clear-cut to anyone being honest about it. The character isn't asked at any stage (which is even worse, because the script technically leaves it that she could have agreed, but never does that), then her only line is to scoff, give a cold, angry look at the guy, then to have text saying she was upset that it happened. It's messed up by design, and the script obviously gets off on her being uncomfortable the whole time..
