That's uhh not really the point I was trying to hammer home. You're giving drawings equal rights to real human beings.
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IGN DQXI review mentions "cringe-worthy" sexualization. Angry Joe chimes in. Let's talk about it.
- Thread starter Vex
- Start date
That's uhh not really the point I was trying to hammer home. You're giving drawings equal rights to real human beings.
But do they have to consent if they're not real? I've never heard this argument about all the npcs the player murders. What if the developer wants to portray a woman who would wear such an outfit in real life?
It's optional for those who like that content. They're not wrong for wanting it and the devs aren't wrong for including it.
Yes, the question of consent or agency is irrelevant to a fictional character because fictional characters are not real, it is only relevant in terms of the portrayal and the effectiveness or lackthereof of that portrayal.
It doesn't deserve it's own thread, because the vast majority of people understand that fiction is not reality.
I'm sure you're right, but in comparison with most JRPGs (I play a lot of them so I have more or less an idea), it's the first modern JRPG I've played where I can found some bunny girls or girls with cleavage trying to attract costumers in most towns. Maybe it's on the silly/funny side as you said, but it's there.
The game feels outdated in many aspects and the bunny girls/puff puff jokes are another example of this.
That discussion is really futile. Nothing will change about it, even more for a series so japanese focused like Dragon Quest which have those elements since the beginning of the series with puff puff, sexual jokes and the costumes since 8. If there's any series in which people should lose their hope with those elements, it's this one. lol
Personally I'm of the opinion that generally there is a general lack of sexualization and nudity in games but if someone has a problem with it they should be free to mention it in their review... because it's their review. If something negatively impacted upon a reviewers feelings of a game they should be free to mention it.
I'm surprised a pretty tame optional costume would be considered notably cringeworthy though - I was expecting something far more extreme.
I'm surprised a pretty tame optional costume would be considered notably cringeworthy though - I was expecting something far more extreme.
It is a pretty short review, I dont see how what most would consider a non factor being one of the major take aways accounts for only 1% of the review
but even outside of that, thought it was fluffy, broad and uninformative. Didn't feel like there was insight and just more exaggerative language to mask what was a string of boring, unoriginal takes from his play through along with outlining some basic mechanics. As an actual intellectual, critical breakdown of the game felt like some things could be elaborated upon more
shame considering DQ11 is something that we all wish to do well and IGN is a big outlet
User banned (3 days) - drive-by/trolling, inflammatory generalizations
Its a full body suit so what?? Americans where an mistake.
Not so much cringe-worthy but it is dumb. JRPGs have been targeting the lowest common denominator for years now with these designs. It's worse in games centered more on anime-tropes and characterizations though. You know the game, the ones with absurd titles like "Rebirth Exe:Stenia DX Nightly Nurse Azure."
I guess the target audience just doesn't care that the female character designs look embarrassing. Definitely not for me.
I guess the target audience just doesn't care that the female character designs look embarrassing. Definitely not for me.
I'm being honest here with this question, how would a creator create any characters then? I dated a girl who was not comfortable wearing leggings, but to most people that'd be a fairly normal and non-sexualized outfit which wouldn't be controversial to have in a game. A character in a game can't consent to wearing that and you run into the same issue that you're proposing with lack of consent. Same goes for a lot of common clothes like jeans that have a tight fit, shirts that show any sort of skin. Like in the line of logic you're thinking of, who becomes the authority on how any characters are allowed to be dressed considering every person will have different boundaries for what they're comfortable wearing or showing about their body? How can romance ever be tackled in game when there's stuff like Liara from Mass Effect certainly had no consent that she wanted to become intimate with Shepard, but the creators 'forced' her to as a character if you so choose to do so as Shepard?
I'm trying to understand your argument but i'm struggling to since we're trying to attribute a human thing like consent to things that don't exist.
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Angry Joe is wrong yet again, it is sexualization just because it's optional doesn't change the fact that it is.
Can't be surprised someone who acts like a giant manchild for views, and his fanbase defend this though
Can't be surprised someone who acts like a giant manchild for views, and his fanbase defend this though
User Banned (3 Days): Inflammatory drive-by posting and generalizations
Women can speak for themselves. If it mattered so much they would discuss it - I've been in many threads in this forum, and on different social media - the women that don't have a problem with the amount of sexualisation of women in games are a minority. And also perfectly capable of speech.
I think the main point is the pop culture reference to the Playboy Bunny which is an icon of female sexualisation.
Honestly it probably wouldn't be so note-worthy if it wasn't for being yet another example in an avalanche of female objectification that the Japanese games industry indulges in.
Do you dress the men up in Chipendale-style striper outfits? If so then I withdraw my objection.
Wait, it's dawning on me the point you're trying to make in your last few posts, and my mouth is starting to hang open involuntarily. Is this a joke or something?
EDIT: Ah, banned. Yeah, that was a put on.
I'm disappointed that the writer wrote this quest with Jade not wanting to do it.
The whole "women should be embarrassed by sexuality or they're weird" trope in Japanese media is one I particularly do not care for.
The whole "women should be embarrassed by sexuality or they're weird" trope in Japanese media is one I particularly do not care for.
people aren't wrong for disliking it either, but to dock the game on a review for it is just petty really unprofessional imho. I see both sides.
I think there is a scale and continuum and I don't find the picture in the op to be on the significantly horrid side of that continuum
And yes of course there is a scale otherwise there is no place for sexualization of any degree in games which is not sensible it is not innately wrong to habe sexualized elements in media or life
Is a playboy bunny sexualized or fan service yes?
Does that make it offensive? No.
Poor taste? Subjective. I just don't find it very objectionable.
The sidequest surrounding the outfit makes it very clear that jade doesn't want to be wearing it.
Well 'they ,including myself, still are' is what the board has been chanting since trump got elected.
How dare you say that about Rebirth Exe:Stenia DX Nightly Nurse Azure! It's the best game in the series since Azure Hearts Unity; Cry Beloved Country!
I haven't gotten around to playing DQXI, but based off of the descriptions it does feel gross and is an unfortunate part of Otaku culture. I guess it's good that it's not as prevalent as Xenoblade or especially the JRPG's where oversexualized females are legitimately one of the selling points. Even the Persona series is guilty of this to some degree.
Docking points for something he didn't like is unprofessional now?
Eh, that argument is really dumb when DQ is one of the biggest franchise in Japan. This has much more to do with their humor since the inception of the franchise than that.
It's definitely sexualization.
Cringe worthy is a subjective assessment. But it's definitely sexualization.
Cringe worthy is a subjective assessment. But it's definitely sexualization.
That a fictional character doesn't want to wear a fictional outfit... there are people who call it fiction.
Is he docking other games like Tomb Raider or girls with inappropriate outfits at every opportunity?
Ever been to Disneyworld? I can safely say people can be horrible from any country after my recent visit.
The worlds most modest bunny costume that is a tiny tiny blip in the scale of the game which has a very modest general art direction is worth being a major bullet point of said games review?
Even if said Bunny suit is a very likely reference to Bulma, another one of Toriyamas characters, who's long time voice actress passed away recently?
This bunny suit is more cute then anything, attacking this game for it considering all of the other aspects to the game and considering what actual fan service out of Japan looks like is a joke
I love when people use this argument to defend content that's totally sexless.
It's no more unprofessional then docking a game for not liking the story or finding a character annoying or not jelling with a particular set of mechanics. Which is to say, not unprofessional at all. A review is just one person's opinion of a game, this is part of his opinion. You certainly don't have to agree, but your disagreement doesn't mean the review is unprofessional.
Where are you from? I'd like to generalize about your people as well.
I don't know, is he? I was just asking you a question based on your post.
Sex is bad when it makes one of the people involved uncomfortable. Jade is uncomfortable. So it's bad.
Violence is not good in normal society. In a society where monsters and evil wizards are roaming around, fighting them is good.
It's almost like things aren't black and white.
Dragon Quext XI is so incredibly mild next to Persona, Xenoblade, or even western games like Mass Effect, GTA, etc. that I would caution you making this kind of assumption. It is an incredibly small element that is mostly meant to be humorous.
I don't care to read IGN reviews or give them ad revenue but it comes off like he's just taking shots at DQ from a glance.
I personally don't see any problem with the suit, it's really not that sexual....but that's just my opinion and I'm cool if people disagree with me.
However, the quest is a bit on the nasty side. Helping some creeper look at a girl in a bunny suit is....weird.
However, the quest is a bit on the nasty side. Helping some creeper look at a girl in a bunny suit is....weird.
The mc gets screwed by a macho bondage dude against his will in the 3rd town he visits.
Thats either very very serious or its a joke.
I don't want to have an informed opinion. I just want to make baseless assumptions.