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Why didnt Nintendo use android for switch?

Why not use Android?

  • Piracy duh!

    Votes: 191 27.6%

  • Android is resource heavy

    Votes: 261 37.8%

  • Nintendo wanting control

    Votes: 238 34.4%

  • Competition with shield tablet?

    Votes: 1 0.1%
  • Total voters
    691
Amiibola

Amiibola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,255
Jessmo24 said:
I guess my counter points would be.

1. The benefits of having both playstore and Nintendo on the same device outweigh the negatives.

2. The could have either added more ram to the switch or used the cores that aren't running.

3. Why make droid games for other devices when your games could have ran on switch.

Either way the library if games would have been insane. Right now if In out of town, I likely have a switch a phone and a tablet. This makes normal droid tablets obsolete.
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Not really good counterpoints though, if one of the positives of having Android as an OS is its library then why every single Android console has crashed to death?

Also, your answer to Android being resource heavy makes me wonder if you understand why Switch is what it is. Giving more horsepower to an hypothetical Android Switch would only lead to more horsepower being wasted in the ridiculous overhead and a very steep price point.

So no, thanks.
 
Reinhard

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,604
Android is very inefficient and easy to hack. It's made to work on a variety of hardware instead of tailor made. No successful console will use a generic OS out of security concerns and to be able to get the most gaming performance in underpowered hardware (consoles can't afford to use expensive CPU/GPUs) .
 
Laserbeam

Laserbeam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,452
Canada
I don't think there's really anything "baffling" about Nintendo wanting their Nintendo console to have a Nintendo made OS.
 

Nuclear Muffin

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
It's all of the top three suggestions in the poll. Android is a horrible, POS OS when it comes to games performance.

It's a massive resource hog and its security is non-existent. Why WOULD Nintendo use it?
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
There's so many possible answers for this.

1. Android would make piracy much more accessible, and although Nintendo platforms usually get "rooted" pretty early on, Android would make the process significantly easier.

2. Android is not 100% geared towards games. Sure, it has good resource management, but Nintendo would have to drastically overhaul it to maximize performance.

3. Nintendo tends to use proprietary software exclusively to ensure they have full control over the platform. Going with a stripped down Android ROM is the lazy way that leads to more problems down the road and it just isn't professional.

4. People tend to have an aversion toward Android tablets - they're often regarded as low quality products with little durability, which is exactly what Nintendo doesn't want to project. Android cheapens the whole experience and handicaps the tablet's market potential from the start because people know what to expect and it's not an exciting thought. There's a million Android tablets with games on them at a much cheaper price that people can buy their kids instead, and all of them can play Mario and Pokemon competently enough.
 

Deleted member 15476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,268
Nintendo would almost never use anything gui related since that would hammer the brand recognition of the product. Stock Android kernel also has a lot of gpl licensed parts. In comparison the *BSDs have deliberately avoiding them in order to make their offer more attractive to companies for applications like this. I wonder if Nintendo gives anything back to the FreeBSD org, not that I would feel bad about it.
 
Maximus

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
I would imagine security and control are two big factors as to why this wasn't a thing.
 
z0m3le

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Switch's OS is custom made, it's backbone is directly from Nvidia, all firmware, APIs and driver software was created by them. If the platform were to run Android, it would likely not even match the Wii U when in handheld mode, the CPU resources would be lost, memory bandwidth would be heavily reduced. Android isn't even that great of a OS for phones, it would be a huge hindrance to gaming, and while Vulkan helps with some of these resource problems, my understanding is that the scheduler in Android is just inadequate for dedicated gaming, and is designed with a general computing mindset, where interruptions and back ground resources are pulled away at an OS level.

Nintendo's big miss with the Switch was that they didn't opt to use 16nm and 128bit memory bandwidth, they could have fit twice the cuda cores, matched PS4/XB1's CPU, doubled the memory bandwidth. They could have launched a Switch holiday 2016 that more or less was on par with a XB1, they had a really strong deal with Nvidia to use X1 on 20nm, but ultimately it cost them the ability to get games like FF15 for instance, Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed, as well as Monster Hunter Worlds (if Sony didn't lock that down to not be on Nintendo platforms) and even Resident Evil 7... It would have cost Nintendo more money, probably double the SoC cost of $57 dollars, so on par with what the Wii U SoC cost, but that would have drastically improved the validity of the Switch as a long running platform.

They put out something that will over time, change the landscape of gaming, it's not just a successful platform, it has the potential to make consoles obsolete, but in order to do that, a hybrid has to come along with less compromise than the current Switch, whether that is a more powerful Switch in 1 to 5 years, or a competitor's hybrid, we can't know... Eventually someone will come along with a Switch like device that docks into a more powerful GPU, that bridges the gap between these platforms completely and questions why you would have one form factor without the other.
 
ffvorax

ffvorax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
I suppose they want a proprietary software under control and also Android is not born as a gaming platform, so would not be the best for overall performance... if you build the OS around your gaming system it will (hopefully) better.
 

Deleted member 46103

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 22, 2018
822
QUOTE="Nuclear Muffin, post: 12774222, member: 25345"]It's all of the top three suggestions in the poll. Android is a horrible, POS OS when it comes to games performance.

It's a massive resource hog and its security is non-existent. Why WOULD Nintendo use it?[/QUOTE]

Border said:
Because it's not remotely a secure operating system and they are notoriously cautious about piracy. They were too scared to use proper DVDs on Gamecube, for lord's sake.
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Android is every bit as secure as IOS if the OEM issues the monthly security updates.

Android runs vulkan. Games that leverage it are competitive with metal.
 
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Deleted member 46103

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 22, 2018
822
tyraniboah said:
Piracy is probably the big one. But since the Switch OS seems to be about simplicity and using fewer resources, I doubt Android would have contributed anything meaningful to the Switch intended experience.

What missed opportunity could there possibly be anyway? The Switch is selling quite well and Android tablets are all but basically dead.
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Android Tablets are dead but ChromeOS tablets that run Android apps are just getting started.
 
potatohead

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
Would seriously compromise vendor ability to customize the machine.

Same question could be posed to consoles and no I wouldn't want to see them running android
 
Pryme

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Did the OP really think this through? What's the benefit to Nintendo from users getting games via the Playstore? Or via an easy sideload?
 

Deleted member 46103

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 22, 2018
822
Birdseye said:
Java
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Lol. No. Android games are made with C/C++.

Shit Google recommends apps are made with Kotlin now. Not even the OS is made with Java.

I'm glad Nintendo didn't go with Android but the uneducated jabs at Android in this thread are hilarious.

Especially the ones claiming it's not secure when Google issues monthly security updates. Lol.
 
Ephonk

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,944
Belgium
Amiibola said:
Android is very resource heavy. No thanks.

Also, this reminded me to that time Android was rumored for NX, and since it was a bad thing people believed the rumor inmediatly. That was ridiculous.

In any case, with Android the most heavy ports wouldn't have been possible
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It was rumoured to use AOSP, the open source project Android is based on, and it's nog 100% incorrect. Just like android, the switch uses parts of FreeBSD, and even the multimedia framework of AOSP itself in their Switch OS.

It's basically their own OS but based on a combination of the 3DS OS, AOSP, FreeBSD, Webkit and Nvidea's own API that is Vulkan related.
 
Pablo Mesa

Pablo Mesa

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
6,878
Amiibola said:
Not really good counterpoints though, if one of the positives of having Android as an OS is its library then why every single Android console has crashed to death?

Also, your answer to Android being resource heavy makes me wonder if you understand why Switch is what it is. Giving more horsepower to an hypothetical Android Switch would only lead to more horsepower being wasted in the ridiculous overhead and a very steep price point.

So no, thanks.
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you can ask Vena, so far all the exploits ot Switch come from hardware flaws. their OS been an stronghold.
 
Pablo Mesa

Pablo Mesa

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
6,878
z0m3le said:
Nintendo's big miss with the Switch was that they didn't opt to use 16nm and 128bit memory bandwidth, they could have fit twice the cuda cores, matched PS4/XB1's CPU, doubled the memory bandwidth. They could have launched a Switch holiday 2016 that more or less was on par with a XB1, they had a really strong deal with Nvidia to use X1 on 20nm, but ultimately it cost them the ability to get games like FF15 for instance, Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed, as well as Monster Hunter Worlds (if Sony didn't lock that down to not be on Nintendo platforms) and even Resident Evil 7... It would have cost Nintendo more money, probably double the SoC cost of $57 dollars, so on par with what the Wii U SoC cost, but that would have drastically improved the validity of the Switch as a long running platform
Click to expand...
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the problem with Switch and other plausible portable devices is not the lack of power, is the lack of proper battery and heat dispersion systems to keep said power on check. even X1 already has to be gimped due to said reason. and still you can still feel the console warm during gaming session and the battery is only about 3 hours long on AAA games.

and for newer chips that could make the cut in terms of energy efficiency, being cutting edge will put the price over their expected range (joy cons already are made loosing money). Nintendo unlikely Sony or Microsoft dont have other branches (yet) to sustain selling a console early on at lost and wait a few years till the volume of software pays it back.
 

Deleted member 14313

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
1,622
Because Android is a general purpose OS which requires significant resources to run.

Horizon on the other hand has a very specific purpose in mind and executes that purpose very well with minimal resources needed.

They are about as far on the extreme ends of a scale as you can get.

Also Nintendo is a very controlling company and Android is much harder for the manufacturer to controll.
 

Morisaki

Member
Oct 29, 2017
177
Jessmo24 said:
I guess my counter points would be.

1. The benefits of having both playstore and Nintendo on the same device outweigh the negatives.

2. The could have either added more ram to the switch or used the cores that aren't running.

3. Why make droid games for other devices when your games could have ran on switch.

Either way the library if games would have been insane. Right now if In out of town, I likely have a switch a phone and a tablet. This makes normal droid tablets obsolete.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

1. I think the playstore prices would just accelerate the race to the bottom for eshop prices. Not something Nintendo wants to do.

2. This would use up more battery. Why waste battery on bloat for a portable gaming device?

3. Don't you mean why make Switch specific games if Switch can run Android apps?

Anyways, I think from Nintendo's perspective, this is just a bad place for them to be.
 
LinkStrikesBack

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
Using android would have set the expectation for using the play store. Having a third party store would be one of the worst decisions for a first party videogame company, because not only would Google expect a cut from every first party title sold through their store, they would also be throwing away at least a portion of the cut that Nintendo would otherwise have gotten for every third party game sold digitally too.

Plus everything else already said in this thread.
 
Nitpicker_Red

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,282
Jessmo24 said:
Is it Piracy fears? Is Android OS resource heavy? Discuss
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All of them? Just like the poll suggests.
The main advantage when you design a console (as opposed to general purpose computers) is that hardware and software are integrated.

They actually talked about that in their Nintendo Labo dev interview, where they were still discussing console specs while preparing games interactions,
and where they mixed hardware teams and software teams together to come up with ideas for eachother. (even though that was for the joy-cons)

Better control is for controlling the software that runs on it (walled garden, piracy and rights), but also having a direct interface with the machine to allow better speed for the OS. (hence why all the three answers in the poll are "right")

The OS is a software layer between the machine and the applications.
Android is a general-purpose OS. It's not a question of being resources-heavy (you could probably make a "light" version of it that runs on a toaster), it has a different structure and design philosophy than a games-oriented OS. It's made to function on a wide array of machines, rather than being optimised from one. It's made to run all sorts of apps coming from different marketplaces.
An OS running on known hardware and running only aproved software doesn't need to be general-purpose.

Taken from the Switch OS UI keynote session: (list of the concerning tweets)
Working at low level is probably what allowed them to squeeze the resources of the home menu down to 200kB. Even though that's more of a funny anecdote, the thought's there, as they were aiming for NES-level of responsivity, which can be achieved by keeping the OS lightweight, and the animations short.

Even though the criticism that it's too light in features can also be true...
The OS's UI might change in the future too based on the famous job listing.
 
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FrakEarth

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,277
Liverpool, UK
I was - at one point - advocating for Nintendo to make a fork of Android and run their own store, in much the same way as Amazon did for Fire devices - but they never would have achieved the quick start up times and snappy efficiency of the OS that they did achieve in the Switch. Its a shame that they've not built more features on top of that as time has gone on.

It is somewhat frustrating that they seem to prefer rebuilding their OS every generation. I hope they treat the current OS as something they can build on going forward.
 
boris_feinbrand

boris_feinbrand

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,574
Using Android on the Switch would be akin to designing the fastest bike, only to build it completely out of steel and fill it with concrete.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
Can't tell you why and how but Sony and Ninty has followed the Apple method in using FreeBSD as layer of glue between their own old stuff. Apple did it two decades ago in the fusion of MacOS Classic with NeXSTEP (already based on BSD stuff) that brings MacOSX.
 
jokkir

jokkir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,171
Some of you guys realize that Android is extremely customizable right? Like you don't need to use the Play Store to distribute games nor would it look like anything you see on phones or tablets or even perform like them.
 
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