Game devs, how do you keep the motivation despite the circumstances?

AdaWong · Sep 17, 2018

I usually end up writing long essays in an attempt to convey exactly how I'm feeling, but I'm going to keep this as short as I can: if you work in the video game industry and you're passionate about creating the games that you do, but then a really disheartening circumstance hits like:

The game is controversial for one reason or another (but not because of its quality) and as a result, is met distastefully by the audience. [Examples: a controversial tweet by the studio's CEO, a questionable marketing/business deal, a big out-of-context leak from the game, a line in a certain character's dialogue; or an unintentionally offensive remark in the game world, etc]
Some odd-out harsher reviews (although opinions, they still have a lot of power on psychologically altering what players think of the game) and from there develops a bandwagon against the game.

If there's a game you've put months and months into but is still... uh, objectively not a good game, then it's 100% fair if the reception is lukewarm. But if it's genuinely a quality game but is met with detractors and bad word-of-mouth for reasons that are for anything but the fun found in the game itself, then how do you find the motivation to continue putting passion in these games? I do realize that the same motivation-drainage could happen with a good game and good reviews/reception but then awful sales, but at the very least in this case you have a good image of your product.

Yes, I fully realize a game developer is a job like many others, and all you have to do is what you're contractually obligated to do: write this line of code to produce this or animate this arm to do this and get paid... but I'm not asking how to continue working as a game dev, what I'm asking is how do you keep that passion you have for making games from deteriorating due to unpredictable/outside circumstances out of your control that affect how people view your final product?

iseta · Sep 17, 2018

Well, I guess I haven't been able to keep my motivation. I work as a developer for educational augmented realities projects 9-5, it's tiring and even though I work on my main engine of choice I just don't feel motivated anymore.

I still have ideas and everything else, but I don't know. It's hard to get home and work on pretty much the same thing I do daily this along with the fact that I suck at the art department makes it hard for me to make it on my own.

thomasmahler · Sep 17, 2018

The only sure way to keep your motivation is to work on projects that you truly enjoy yourself (I constantly playtest Ori while designing and still lose myself in the game cause it's just fun) and work within an awesome team where everyone's constantly inspiring everybody else.

I only hire people at Moon that aren't divas, that are extremely talented and also fun to work with. We've never really been hit by anything you're stating, OP, I kinda feel like that's mostly happening in bigger AAA studios where some people already don't have their feet on the ground anymore.

To me, your post kinda reads like you sorta know that the place you work at probably isn't the right fit for you anymore, but you're probably not able to admit it to yourself yet. If you have trouble finding the motivation, I'd guess it's a pretty good sign that you might need to move on.

TubaZef · Sep 17, 2018

Sometimes it's hard but I'm indie and my own boss so I just try to make the best game I can and at the end even if no one plays it, I at least did what I wanted to.

If you're working at a big studio... that gets more complicated.

AxeVince · Sep 17, 2018

Even though I am a programmer, I make sure to tell the designers when I don't like a feature or think it could be better.
Input from everyone in the production is important and needs to be addressed, either by saying that it's great or explaining why it would not work.
I also make sure that what I do, I do it the best I can. At least no remorse and if that creates bad reviews, I learn from it and try to improve my work on the next iteration.

Working on "small" games (understand from small studio/no or new IP/niche game), you encounter that kind of problems less though.
On big franchise, your work will get criticize without having even been seen and you kind of "signed for that" so if that does not work for you, right now I would advise to change jobs seeing how difficult the community can be. You can also try to explain how things work so players are more aware of what happens behind the scenes, without breaking any contract you have.
The more educated and open minded the community, the better it will be I believe. Though it's not that easy to do either.

finalflame · Sep 17, 2018

Focus on executing the vision. Have a strong sense for what you're building and why you're building it. Filter out the people who are just being toxic, have thick skin, and get as much signal as you can from those who are genuinely offering feedback. Know you'll never please everyone, and be genuinely ok with that.

AdaWong · Sep 17, 2018

thomasmahler said:
The only sure way to keep your motivation is to work on projects that you truly enjoy yourself (I constantly playtest Ori while designing and still lose myself in the game cause it's just fun) and work within an awesome team where everyone's constantly inspiring everybody else.

I only hire people at Moon that aren't divas, that are extremely talented and also fun to work with. We've never really been hit by anything you're stating, OP, I kinda feel like that's mostly happening in bigger AAA studios where some people already don't have their feet on the ground anymore.

To me, your post kinda reads like you sorta know that the place you work at probably isn't the right fit for you anymore, but you're probably not able to admit it to yourself yet. If you have trouble finding the motivation, I'd guess it's a pretty good sign that you might need to move on.

I totally feel what you're saying (being lost in the game because it's so much fun that you forget it's actually work). The team synergy is DEFINITELY a major piece to keeping your motivation. The thing is, I love those projects and something tells me I shouldn't let a higher-up/detractor's opinions make me stop believing in something that I fully believed in a second ago, but then again something also tells if I'm having to monitor that feeling then maybe this role not as a good fit for me as I thought it was?

TubaZef said:
Sometimes it's hard but I'm indie and my own boss so I just try to make the best game I can and at the end even if no one plays it, I at least did what I wanted to.
If you're working at a big studio... that gets more complicated.

Oh definitely, I would love to be in an indie studio where everything is probably way more manageable. A bigger studio... everything is out of your hands, especially if it's a project with a lot of people working on it (because you don't necessarily see all aspects of what the game).

AxeVince said:
Even though I am a programmer, I make sure to tell the designers when I don't like a feature or think it could be better.
Input from everyone in the production is important and needs to be addressed, either by saying that it's great or explaining why it would not work.
I also make sure that what I do, I do it the best I can. At least no remorse and if that creates bad reviews, I learn from it and try to improve my work on the next iteration.

Working on "small" games (understand from small studio/no or new IP/niche game), you encounter that kind of problems less though.
On big franchise, your work will get criticize without having even been seen and you kind of "signed for that" so if that does not work for you, right now I would advise to change jobs seeing how difficult the community can be. You can also try to explain how things work so players are more aware of what happens behind the scenes, without breaking any contract you have.
The more educated and open minded the community, the better it will be I believe. Though it's not that easy to do either.

Absolutely valid, and I would love to try that but even the thought is so scary because the grudges/distaste is already there and it's way bigger than I could ever handle. It's kind of like playing PR and doing damage control when you're not even responsible for that damage, you know? I don't know how to explain it. It's the reality of things, and I guess it's a good metaphor for life: not everything is going to turn out pretty, even if the intentions are as pure as can be. Just soak it in and gotta keep moving forward I guess, but what do I know lol.

Razor Mom · Sep 17, 2018

Gotta keep going. The first game I released back in a previous studio had plenty of shortcomings, but everything is a learning experience. The remaining team worked hard to fix the game, and improved it enormously (early access). That was a few years ago now, and I'm with a new studio, but you've got to see every release as a learning experience and just keep going onwards and upwards.

elenarie · Sep 17, 2018

Hey, I work at EA DICE on Battlefield. Just open YouTube and you can immediately see how much hate there is for what we do. :) We are a pretty disliked studio that is part of an even more disliked international corporation. So we get vile and vulgar shit thrown at us all the time, sometimes even harassed online. Even here on this forum people are incredibly vile and seem happy to forget that behind everything is another person that is just trying to do their best in the situation that they are with the knowledge and resources that they have.

How I keep up my positivity? I have moved countries thanks to video games. I have traveled the world thanks to video games. I have supported my family thanks to video games. Everything I have is thanks to working on video games. All the hate, all the junk online is just random noise. Noise that I can easily ignore, because in the end, how I and my team feel about the project that we're working on is what matters the most. I wake up every morning, feel inspired and motivated to go to work and work on Battlefield with my current team. Wouldn't trade this for anything else. :)

AdaWong · Sep 17, 2018

elenarie said:
Hey, I work at EA DICE on Battlefield. Just open YouTube and you can immediately see how much hate there is for what we do. :) We are a pretty disliked studio that is part of an even more disliked international corporation. So we get vile and vulgar shit thrown at us all the time, sometimes even harassed online. Even here on this forum people are incredibly vile and seem happy to forget that behind everything is another person that is just trying to do their best in the situation that they are with the knowledge and resources that they have.

How I keep up my positivity? I have moved countries thanks to video games. I have traveled the world thanks to video games. I have supported my family thanks to video games. Everything I have is thanks to working on video games. All the hate, all the junk online is just random noise. Noise that I can easily ignore, because in the end, how I and my team feel about the project that we're working on is what matters the most. I wake up every morning, feel inspired and motivated to go to work work on Battlefield with my current team. Wouldn't trade this for anything else. :)

Holy FUCK did I need to read this. I'm so sorry for what you guys go through, I really am. But this is definitely what I needed to read. I'm incredibly happy to hear that you and your team share the same mindset, and I hope I can find the same peace. Thank you so much for sharing that, elenarie.

delete12345 · Sep 17, 2018

elenarie said:
Hey, I work at EA DICE on Battlefield. Just open YouTube and you can immediately see how much hate there is for what we do. :) We are a pretty disliked studio that is part of an even more disliked international corporation. So we get vile and vulgar shit thrown at us all the time, sometimes even harassed online. Even here on this forum people are incredibly vile and seem happy to forget that behind everything is another person that is just trying to do their best in the situation that they are with the knowledge and resources that they have.

How I keep up my positivity? I have moved countries thanks to video games. I have traveled the world thanks to video games. I have supported my family thanks to video games. Everything I have is thanks to working on video games. All the hate, all the junk online is just random noise. Noise that I can easily ignore, because in the end, how I and my team feel about the project that we're working on is what matters the most. I wake up every morning, feel inspired and motivated to go to work work on Battlefield with my current team. Wouldn't trade this for anything else. :)

Indie hobbyist dev here, that really sounds like you need to be really competitive to press on. Admiring!

balohna · Sep 17, 2018

I feel so critical of games I work on that when they get good reviews I'm pleasantly surprised.

GUNDAM STARDUST · Sep 17, 2018

I imagine it goes like this:

AdaWong · Sep 17, 2018

GUNDAM STARDUST said:
I imagine it goes like this:

AdaWong said:
I fully realize a game developer is a job like many others, and all you have to do is what you're contractually obligated to do: write this line of code to produce this or animate this arm to do this and get paid... but I'm not asking how to continue working as a game dev, what I'm asking is how do you keep that passion you have for making games from deteriorating due to unpredictable/outside circumstances out of your control that affect how people view your final product?

GUNDAM STARDUST · Sep 17, 2018

I don't think there is a universal answer. At any given time your staff is at various levels of motivation which can come from a variety of sources: personal goals, praise from leadership, pride in your artform, desire to provide well for your family, etc. Every developer wants to create great work but it's hard to be on the nose with every release. You have to have thick skin.

Shawn The Wonder · Sep 17, 2018

I'm indie, but for me I'm not sure. I'm motivated because I want some shit for myself, like I have big plans, but things I'm going through right now is a struggle.

Noogy · Sep 17, 2018

Easily one of the hardest parts of development, particularly if you are solo and don't have much external support. Would be nice just to be part of a larger indie dev team.

TubaZef · Sep 17, 2018

Noogy said:
Easily one of the hardest parts of development, particularly if you are solo and don't have much external support. Would be nice just to be part of a larger indie dev team.

Woah, I didn't know Dust was made by a single person. That's amazing! Nice work! :)

Vark · Sep 17, 2018

(joke? answer)

Booze!

(Non joke answer).

It depends. I've been doing this for over 17 years now (oh god). I got extremely lucky in that the first couple of games I worked on were critically and commercially successful. Even with that, and a much less vocal internet (at the time), there were still portions of the internet that *hated* everything we did (Right up through death threats, etc). I was young enough to roll with the punches and my boss at the time was quick to point out how a very vocal but very small community can skew things. Which is true, even when it seems like the entire internet is against you, it's usually just a very loud minority of people that make up a fraction of a percentage of the people that will ever experience your product. I know that my work has touched way more people in a positive way than any of the angry twitter rants would let on.

The downside to starting at the top was there was really only one way to go, so when I worked on shall we say, less successful titles, that was still useful to keep in mind. When one game I poured a year of my life into was absolutely reamed for reasons totally out of my control, it was super useful to keep in mind. It still sucked, it took months to recover and some angry 2am walks, but it all passes. I learned a lot from those experiences, mostly how to not do things. But it also put my career into perspective over just one project. It's a long game for me and yea, some days are lower than others, but those are the days i'm more determined to learn something new to expand my skill set and focus on the parts of the job I enjoy. It's a hard business, and unforgiving, but those highs are really f'ing high.

If you're not enjoying any real part of the daily grind, and it doesn't feel worth it, it's entirely possible you're just in the wrong place or stuck not doing the parts of the job you truly enjoy, so it's worth maybe figuring out what those things are, they can change.

Noogy · Sep 17, 2018

TubaZef said:
Woah, I didn't know Dust was made by a single person. That's amazing! Nice work! :)

Awesome, thanks :) To be fair I had some help co-writing, and I outsourced music and voice over. But yeah, otherwise was all me. So I totally sympathize with how DIFFICULT it can be to keep going with a massive project.

Deleted member 5535 · Sep 17, 2018

elenarie said:
Hey, I work at EA DICE on Battlefield. Just open YouTube and you can immediately see how much hate there is for what we do. :) We are a pretty disliked studio that is part of an even more disliked international corporation. So we get vile and vulgar shit thrown at us all the time, sometimes even harassed online. Even here on this forum people are incredibly vile and seem happy to forget that behind everything is another person that is just trying to do their best in the situation that they are with the knowledge and resources that they have.

How I keep up my positivity? I have moved countries thanks to video games. I have traveled the world thanks to video games. I have supported my family thanks to video games. Everything I have is thanks to working on video games. All the hate, all the junk online is just random noise. Noise that I can easily ignore, because in the end, how I and my team feel about the project that we're working on is what matters the most. I wake up every morning, feel inspired and motivated to go to work work on Battlefield with my current team. Wouldn't trade this for anything else. :)

I can just imagine what you guys have to see every time because well, I see them too but you guys are the ones actually involved on the product. It's why the relation between developers/workers of game industry and consumers are so difficult. I just hope that someday this will change but it's very difficult. People see companies and they think that there's no people at there. Either way, really great post.

Gakidou · Sep 17, 2018

1) Hone in on my craft. I only make one aspect of the game. I work in a big company, I have little personal impact on a game's overall metascores. So as long as I and my leads are satisfied with my work, that's motivation enough. Plus I don't think I've ever worked on a game where I thought our department's output was a relatively weak aspect of the game. IN YOUR FACE, OTHER DEPARTMENTS.

2) Aim to do better next time. Pretty universal, really. Not only is a single game project an iterative process, but so are games in general.

3) Gotta be honest, I do like just being paid reliably to do stuff i'm good at, and the people. Good working environment is a bigger factor than scores and sales numbers for me. And doing my job to the best of my ability is... more satisfying than not doing that?

platypotamus · Sep 17, 2018

I am a designer working in AAA games. Been in the industry nearly 20 years. Can't think of a single designer in AAA games that I know who is consistently happy with work. Every conversation is about how fucked it all is. It's something

Ignis · Sep 17, 2018

Props to the DICE guy in this thread, lotta respect for you and some of the other posters.

Fwiw I'll throw in my story:
OP I worked in the games industry and I feel like it ripped the artist out of me completely, so I left it completely to go become a software engineer doing things not videogame related. Growing up I always thought about how cool itt would be for my creativity to be my source of income, but it's not quite the same when your creativity is just a tool for corporate to pump games out to meet financial projections. So in my case, definitely a place where I didn't belong!

EDIT: Also money was a big motivator for me to leave, and as the above poster said a lot of people in the industry seem to be unhappy with something or the other lol. This can be draining.

MDSVeritas · Sep 17, 2018

I think as a first point it's important to draw a lot of motivation internally if you can. Being excited about the things you work on, or the challenges you're solving, or even just the team you're a part of can give you a huge motivational boost. The nice thing about that type of motivation is that game dev, at any level, has a lot of quiet or un-glamorous moments. Whether it be bugs, or systems architecture, or general organization there's a lot of stuff that nobody is gonna see or care about or comment on, and it's not an insignificant percent of game dev, but it's super necessary. And being able to work through that part of it is helped in great part by really caring about what you're making and what problems you're solving, because in those moments the only there to see that stuff is you.

When it comes to taking things like critique or outside opinion of your work, I think it's important to approach criticism from a constructive angle to improve your work in the future, but also know when to take time to yourself, or engage with closer friends as well as larger communities. Personally I gain a lot of motivation, useful insight, and also fair critique by speaking more at length with specific folks about stuff I've worked on. Scrolling through a large amount of comments or messages has its uses, but being able to have a deeper conversations with one or two people can yield an incredible amount of great feedback, and if they like the game or project then hearing their own direct feelings at greater detail than most one-off comments can be a great source of remembering why we make games.

Aters · Sep 17, 2018

elenarie said:
Hey, I work at EA DICE on Battlefield. Just open YouTube and you can immediately see how much hate there is for what we do. :) We are a pretty disliked studio that is part of an even more disliked international corporation. So we get vile and vulgar shit thrown at us all the time, sometimes even harassed online. Even here on this forum people are incredibly vile and seem happy to forget that behind everything is another person that is just trying to do their best in the situation that they are with the knowledge and resources that they have.

How I keep up my positivity? I have moved countries thanks to video games. I have traveled the world thanks to video games. I have supported my family thanks to video games. Everything I have is thanks to working on video games. All the hate, all the junk online is just random noise. Noise that I can easily ignore, because in the end, how I and my team feel about the project that we're working on is what matters the most. I wake up every morning, feel inspired and motivated to go to work and work on Battlefield with my current team. Wouldn't trade this for anything else. :)

Dude 2017 must have been a terrible year for you. I can't imagine being the ultimate villain on the Internet.

kaf · Sep 17, 2018

One thing you learn over time is to disassociate your work with the media circus and the commentary online - like forum banter and twitter posts. There's a lot of uninformed vitrolic 'posts', down to speculation and rumors that are based on almost nothing. People will try to connect dots to confirm their own theories on what a game is, how it came to be and so on. All pointless and mostly angry, combative posts. There is value in feedback, but you learn where to find that over time.

Pointless to live in the past and focus on this one game that you loved working on, you just end up being very bitter when not every project matches the nostalgia in your head. There is experience to gain and taking what you've learnt to apply to the next game - and then there's dwelling in the past. It's easy to associate yourself with what you work on, but in the end nobody will care 10 years from now, and neither should I.

Monarch1501 · Sep 17, 2018

Assess areas of improvements and work on them I guess? It's been almost 4 years now and I'm learning new things every other day and that keeps me motivated among many other things. And I think it depends on what your role is, but in my case, I get to do some very different stuff all week long.

As for the critics, I remember getting pretty nervous near Vampyr's launch and the incoming reviews since it was my first retail game. I think it was ok, the bad and the good ones. The bad ones did provide some insightful info on things to improve and the good filled me with pride/joy so there's that.

DryCreek · Sep 17, 2018

AdaWong · Sep 17, 2018

Ignis said:
Props to the DICE guy in this thread, lotta respect for you and some of the other posters.

Fwiw I'll throw in my story:
OP I worked in the games industry and I feel like it ripped the artist out of me completely, so I left it completely to go become a software engineer doing things not videogame related. Growing up I always thought about how cool itt would be for my creativity to be my source of income, but it's not quite the same when your creativity is just a tool for corporate to pump games out to meet financial projections. So in my case, definitely a place where I didn't belong!

EDIT: Also money was a big motivator for me to leave, and as the above poster said a lot of people in the industry seem to be unhappy with something or the other lol. This can be draining.

Thank you for sharing. I am so very terrified of this happening. I am privileged enough to be financially stable, and so I'm seeking the thrill of living my life and working on something I truly care about -- I realize not a lot of people have that privilege, so I'll try to cherish it as much as I can, but the fear of that creativity within me dimming down because of the psychological effects of the industry is my greatest fear.

MDSVeritas said:
I think as a first point it's important to draw a lot of motivation internally if you can. Being excited about the things you work on, or the challenges you're solving, or even just the team you're a part of can give you a huge motivational boost. The nice thing about that type of motivation is that game dev, at any level, has a lot of quiet or un-glamorous moments. Whether it be bugs, or systems architecture, or general organization there's a lot of stuff that nobody is gonna see or care about or comment on, and it's not an insignificant percent of game dev, but it's super necessary. And being able to work through that part of it is helped in great part by really caring about what you're making and what problems you're solving, because in those moments the only there to see that stuff is you.

When it comes to taking things like critique or outside opinion of your work, I think it's important to approach criticism from a constructive angle to improve your work in the future, but also know when to take time to yourself, or engage with closer friends as well as larger communities. Personally I gain a lot of motivation, useful insight, and also fair critique by speaking more at length with specific folks about stuff I've worked on. Scrolling through a large amount of comments or messages has its uses, but being able to have a deeper conversations with one or two people can yield an incredible amount of great feedback, and if they like the game or project then hearing their own direct feelings at greater detail than most one-off comments can be a great source of remembering why we make games.

I love the tips you shared, and I sincerely appreciate expert advice so thank you for that. I think I'm very good at taking criticism; what I cannot seem to handle well is taking unfair criticism, or people that have an idea of what they want to say to you but disguise it in the worst way and most unauthentic way possible. I understand the world is unfair, I really do. I understand not everything revolves around me and how amazing I think my life or the team's life should be -- but it doesn't make the hurt one bit less hurtful, you know? Regardless, thank you for your tips. And I think I'll try to seek that light from within me before everything else, as cheesy as it may sound.

kaf said:
One thing you learn over time is to disassociate your work with the media circus and the commentary online - like forum banter and twitter posts. There's a lot of uninformed vitrolic 'posts', down to speculation and rumors that are based on almost nothing. People will try to connect dots to confirm their own theories on what a game is, how it came to be and so on. All pointless and mostly angry, combative posts. There is value in feedback, but you learn where to find that over time.

Pointless to live in the past and focus on this one game that you loved working on, you just end up being very bitter when not every project matches the nostalgia in your head. There is experience to gain and taking what you've learnt to apply to the next game - and then there's dwelling in the past. It's easy to associate yourself with what you work on, but in the end nobody will care 10 years from now, and neither should I.

Very true regarding the dwelling in the past bit. It's just that bottled up hurt (or maybe even anger?) that dwells in the back of your mind for not being appreciated. It's a very selfish (maybe?) mindset but it truly sucks having to put in quality work for months into something only to have it all thrown out the window and completely discredited due to something out of my control. It sounds childish, trust me I know, but I think as human beings we like to be recognized for what we do, and not trashed for it because of something I was not involved in. Hell, I'll take not being recognized at all over having a vocal group trash it whenever they can. I don't mind the group, I can filter them out, but I'm afraid of the other people they might influence. It's such a psychological game, I hope I didn't make it too confusing.

Monarch1501 said:
Assess areas of improvements and work on them I guess? It's been almost 4 years now and I'm learning new things every other day and that keeps me motivated among many other things. And I think it depends on what your role is, but in my case, I get to do some very different stuff all week long.

As for the critics, I remember getting pretty nervous near Vampyr's launch and the incoming reviews since it was my first retail game. I think it was ok, the bad and the good ones. The bad ones did provide some insightful info on things to improve and the good filled me with pride/joy so there's that.

I absolutely LOVE fair criticism. There's nothing more satisfactory than being told "this could be done better" and then changing it and have the reception be "amazing!" SO satisfying. But there's a lot of unfair criticism out there. Let's talk troll groups: "bomb reviewing" games to oblivion because of a patch note or something petty, you know?

kaf · Sep 17, 2018

AdaWong said:
Very true regarding the dwelling in the past bit. It's just that bottled up hurt (or maybe even anger?) that dwells in the back of your mind for not being appreciated. It's a very selfish (maybe?) mindset but it truly sucks having to put in quality work for months into something only to have it all thrown out the window and completely discredited due to something out of my control. It sounds childish, trust me I know, but I think as human beings we like to be recognized for what we do, and not trashed for it because of something I was not involved in. Hell, I'll take not being recognized at all over having a vocal group trash it whenever they can. I don't mind the group, I can filter them out, but I'm afraid of the other people they might influence. It's such a psychological game, I hope I didn't make it too confusing.

This is easier to ignore over time - it does hurt at first having something you worked on being trashed for whatever reason.

In a larger team, the end result is a combination of work and factors you may not be able to control. I will always be proud of the work I did on a game regardless of reception. Your work will be viewed independently from the end result by other professionals in the industry, and they will see it for what it is.

AdaWong · Sep 17, 2018

kaf said:
This is easier to ignore over time - it does hurt at first having something you worked on being trashed for whatever reason.

In a larger team, the end result is a combination of work and factors you may not be able to control. I will always be proud of the work I did on a game regardless of reception. Your work will be viewed independently from the end result by other professionals in the industry, and they will see it for what it is.

Okay, I'm gonna ask a question that might sound so weird but I wanna hear your thoughts: say you worked on one part of a game that you know was awesome, but the game overall has a negative connotation. No matter how proud you are of your work in that aspect, doesn't it deter you from mentioning the work you done whenever it's relevant to do so? (like I don't know, discussions with fellow devs, talking to someone about gaming, or even a job interview). I found myself in a dilemma more times than not thinking "I should mention this. I know it was good, but the stigma around the game is too negative that I would have to further explain what I did is actually good" and when you need to explain something, it just becomes so awkward. Please let me know if you want me to rephrase that if it's not coherent.

Dental Plan · Sep 17, 2018

I work on F2P mobile games so everyone hate us. The core gameplay we have is fun but in the mobile market every game has to be free to download. No one is paying money to download a game. While designing F2P games I try to make something I would love to play. It's a difficult balance though. If the game is too generous then I'd be out of a job as we wouldn't make any money. If we are too stingy then people complain.

Although we do now have a product on Steam that has all the F2P stuff ripped out of it. Which is nice.

kaf · Sep 17, 2018

AdaWong said:
Okay, I'm gonna ask a question that might sound so weird but I wanna hear your thoughts: say you worked on one part of a game that you know was awesome, but the game overall has a negative connotation. No matter how proud you are of your work in that aspect, doesn't it deter you from mentioning the work you done whenever it's relevant to do so? (like I don't know, discussions with fellow devs, talking to someone about gaming, or even a job interview). I found myself in a dilemma more times than not thinking "I should mention this. I know it was good, but the stigma around the game is too negative that I would have to further explain what I did is actually good" and when you need to explain something, it just becomes so awkward. Please let me know if you want me to rephrase that if it's not coherent.

There has never been a game I worked on that has impacted me negatively (interview, career wise) or socially (talking with other colleagues etc). If there was something I'd see being openly talked down upon by a colleague online or in person, that to me speaks more of their lack of maturity than anything.

While I don't talk about games often outside of work (I do have some friends on IRC or whatever), it's never been a negative. And I've been on projects that get shit on a lot in some forums (like here): Resistance (VITA), the last SimCity, general Telltale games.

Parham · Sep 17, 2018

Even if the final product turns out to be a dud, I find a lot of personal satisfaction in the act of game development itself.

Nezacant · Sep 17, 2018

elenarie said:
Hey, I work at EA DICE on Battlefield. Just open YouTube and you can immediately see how much hate there is for what we do. :) We are a pretty disliked studio that is part of an even more disliked international corporation. So we get vile and vulgar shit thrown at us all the time, sometimes even harassed online. Even here on this forum people are incredibly vile and seem happy to forget that behind everything is another person that is just trying to do their best in the situation that they are with the knowledge and resources that they have.

How I keep up my positivity? I have moved countries thanks to video games. I have traveled the world thanks to video games. I have supported my family thanks to video games. Everything I have is thanks to working on video games. All the hate, all the junk online is just random noise. Noise that I can easily ignore, because in the end, how I and my team feel about the project that we're working on is what matters the most. I wake up every morning, feel inspired and motivated to go to work and work on Battlefield with my current team. Wouldn't trade this for anything else. :)

Thanks for sharing this post. I've been a long time fan of Dice and the Battlefield series. (I've purchased every one on PC since BF1942!) I'm sure you know this but behind that random noise are passionate fans that appreciate everything your studio has done and is doing. I feel sometimes you don't get to hear our voices enough over the vile vocal minority but we are here and shaking in anticipation of Battlefield V! Had a blast with the beta playing with friends I've been playing battlefield games with for well over a decade.

Jintor · Sep 17, 2018

This is a wonderful thread and thank you everybody in it for sharing your thoughts and views.

CatAssTrophy · Sep 17, 2018

This thread is as interesting as it is heart breaking. I think if anything I'd love to hear how to be better at offering criticism and feedback. I want to be constructive without being mean or sounding like a dick. Devs deserve better.

m0therzer0 · Sep 17, 2018

I'm a free to play mobile games product manager. You wouldn't (or maybe you would) believe the amount of shit I hear about the kind of games I make, especially around here. Loot boxes, pay walls, I do it all.

Despite all the negativity, it helps to remember that there are people out there who genuinely enjoy your product, and you're bringing them happiness. Don't take all the bad you hear too much to heart.

JasoNsider · Sep 17, 2018

There are several ways I keep myself going, but honestly the customer/fans/detractor reactions are by far the easiest to deal with.

1) Make something for yourself. If you're happy with it, then you don't care what people think. Oddly enough I do have issues when I encounter fans who are so excited to talk to myself or the team when I don't like said game nearly as much as they do. It makes me feel like there's a serious disconnect as if maybe the audience just "doesn't get it". Or worse - maybe the creator (ie me) doesn't get it.

2) The most important of all is don't take things personally. This goes for many types of work, but it's especially important on creative endeavors like video games. I have had people absolutely blast prototypes and finished titles. It honestly doesn't bother me. I'm not my work, even if I pour myself into it. The work is a product of iteration, feedback, sometimes even risky ideas.

3) Don't read era threads about technical game dev stuff where 95% of the people don't know what they're talking about. I don't often get upset, but watching people talk about technical things they have no clue about is one of the most insufferable things. I remember a thread back at the old place with people arguing why X game should have online or should be easy to implement online or whatever. Walk away haha

4) Take everything a day at a time! Push away from the desk once you're fatigued. Get lots of rest. Do things that are not videogame related. Stay recharged and inspired!

MistaTwo · Sep 17, 2018

I have always had fairly thick skin, probably a direct result of dealing with bullies as a kid. That definitely helps in my case,
as I generally don't pay attention to hate online or let it get to me.

I've been in a variety of situations, from underdog indie publisher to associate producer on a comcept game (ReCore) so I have experienced
both the good and the really really bad.

I mostly just count myself lucky that I don't work in marketing/PR. I still keep an eye on general reactions and comments, but I don't think I could handle a pure
marketing job that required me to engage directly with the community on that level.

Nome · Sep 17, 2018

[x] doxxed
[x] swatted
[x] death threats

I love video games too much.

JasoNsider said:
3) Don't read era threads about technical game dev stuff where 95% of the people don't know what they're talking about. I don't often get upset, but watching people talk about technical things they have no clue about is one of the most insufferable things. I remember a thread back at the old place with people arguing why X game should have online or should be easy to implement online or whatever. Walk away haha!

This so much, but I can't help myself. I quit Neogaf because the forum was just too damn ignorant. Era is a bit better but apparently forum gossip trumps years of experience.

Briareos · Sep 17, 2018

Nome said:
This so much, but I can't help myself.

Probably every six months or so I break this maxim ("thou shalt not waste time trying to have technical discussions on enthusiast forums") and it's almost always a mistake. But... some... things... need... to... be... corrected...

Militaratus · Sep 17, 2018

I worked on Road Rage with me solely being credited as the Quality Assurance, and that game got voted the Worst Game of the Year 2017 by several reviewers. So while I feel I am part to blame, I keep up my motivation by acknowledging that the issues with our games is caused by the designers and CEO, and I keep up my spirits in the knowledge that I have good games waiting for me at home so I know not all hope is lost to greed and bad decisions.

JasoNsider · Sep 17, 2018

BriareosGAF said:
Probably every six months or so I break this maxim ("thou shalt not waste time trying to have technical discussions on enthusiast forums") and it's almost always a mistake. But... some... things... need... to... be... corrected...

Haha I clicked that link and immediately noped out. Be strong and say no to anything even remotely technical on here. The really super obvious shame of it all is there is a ton of interesting things to discuss that forum goers here would love but it's just...impossible to stomach the tidal wave of ignorance and attitude.

iliketopaint_93 · Sep 18, 2018

I used to do art direction for PC and mobile games and we were never high profile enough to get a ton of reactions online, but one thing you figure out from being treated unfairly in general and being around developers who get a lot of those responses online is that if someone's trashing you unfairly, straight-up harassing you, etc, and it gets to you, why not make those msgs public on social media and invite that person to have a public discussion about what they've said? Either they take the bait and are outed as abusive or they back down. Either way they learn an important lesson and it has a positive effect on the world.

Their life is probably trash. Making games for a living is awesome. If you do that you've already won their arbitrary "who is better" game. They really don't matter, so it doesn't need to effect you. But if you're extra sensitive and it really does and you can't help it, nothing wrong with putting a spotlight on them on social media as a way of countering it a bit!

AdaWong said:
If there's a game you've put months and months into but is still... uh, objectively not a good game, then it's 100% fair if the reception is lukewarm. But if it's genuinely a quality game but is met with detractors and bad word-of-mouth for reasons that are for anything but the fun found in the game itself, then how do you find the motivation to continue putting passion in these games? I do realize that the same motivation-drainage could happen with a good game and good reviews/reception but then awful sales, but at the very least in this case you have a good image of your product.

Ok, but doesn't it get to a point where it's like how do you quantify this? Objective is not the word I would use, tbh. Sometimes there IS positive criticism online in reviews and on message boards, even if you've earned a 9.5 on metacritic, and you usually can tell when people are whining or have legit constructive feedback imo.

AdaWong · Sep 18, 2018

iliketopaint_93 said:
Ok, but doesn't it get to a point where it's like how do you quantify this? Objective is not the word I would use, tbh.

I should have clarified, I meant a game with game-breaking glitches, and literally unplayable (literally, not the meme saying lol).

matimeo · Sep 18, 2018

I now take healthy breaks from the industry and have begun to focus more on projects that I have more control over.

After 10+ years in the industry you realize you can only control what you can. The bigger the project, the less control you have over outcomes.

I just focus on delivering my part and either it gets implemented as desired or not. But it's not anything I stress about anymore.

TheUnseenTheUnheard · Sep 18, 2018

As someone in the process of becoming a game developer this all sounds quite depressing.

Vex · Sep 18, 2018

elenarie said:
Hey, I work at EA DICE on Battlefield. Just open YouTube and you can immediately see how much hate there is for what we do. :) We are a pretty disliked studio that is part of an even more disliked international corporation. So we get vile and vulgar shit thrown at us all the time, sometimes even harassed online. Even here on this forum people are incredibly vile and seem happy to forget that behind everything is another person that is just trying to do their best in the situation that they are with the knowledge and resources that they have.

How I keep up my positivity? I have moved countries thanks to video games. I have traveled the world thanks to video games. I have supported my family thanks to video games. Everything I have is thanks to working on video games. All the hate, all the junk online is just random noise. Noise that I can easily ignore, because in the end, how I and my team feel about the project that we're working on is what matters the most. I wake up every morning, feel inspired and motivated to go to work and work on Battlefield with my current team. Wouldn't trade this for anything else. :)

Well this is fascinating... You guys DO read YouTube comments. :0

Game devs, how do you keep the motivation despite the circumstances?

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