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8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
I'm really curious how / if online will be implemented?

If they have squad train heists then I'll be in there day one. I'm waiting to see what they're planning on that front before I preorder for a release purchase.
 

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,179
Let me tell you a little story about 2K/Rockstar. They are the biggest bullshitters in the industry.

Example one: Bioshock Infinite: I think the year is 2009 and at Gamescom Ken Levine is narrating a supposed level from the game about one third in, besides him is a dude acting as if he is playing the game. The entire level is absolutely incredible looking and Levine tells us you can finish the game without firing a single shot, your actions will influence future levels and yada yada yada. The final game has none of that and does not even include the level that was supposedly all gameplay.

Example 2: Maffia 3 again a so called gameplay demonstration with a person play acting. I sneak in for a second viewing away from the sheduled one I did previously and see the exact same thing for a second time.

Example 3: Maffia 3 again closer to release, yet again we are told that a person will play the game in front of our eyes and the audience is asked if we want stealth or guns blazing. The crwod goes for stealth and the person doing the presentation accidentaly is ahead of script and goes to list the weapons the person supposedly playing has chosen even before he has done so.

I mean other companies do these types of "live" demos on stage at E3 too. What do your examples have to do with Rockstar and the gameplay video they posted?
 

KrAzY

Member
Sep 2, 2018
1,920
The wait for this for PC is gonna be real bad lol... if it does anyway, the only other western game I played was GUN
 
Sep 12, 2018
656
Ok? None of your examples talk about Rockstar, so thanks for sharing, I guess?

While Rockstar has been known to show footage of their games that looks better than what we eventually play, most of the time, gameplay footage closer to release looks exactly like what we end up playing. This is that gameplay footage.

GTAIV review event, select amount of people were invited and each had a PR rep behind them directing their experience going Oh hey go Bowling, go catch a pigeon, you can do this, you can do that thus giving the reviewer in their limited time the impression that the game provided you with uprecedented freedom while in he actual game you are just being used as an errand boy by the other characters.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,621
This. I'm expecting nothing less then a leap forward in open world design/complexity with this game.
If they can manage to fill the world with meaningful sidequests and narrative depth like TW3, this game has the potential to become one of the best ever.

I didn't play The Witcher 3, primarily because I haven't played any of the others, but it looked good.

The Hollywood Reporter article was pretty hype:
"We are trying to make a world that's both expansive and deep at the same time," Garbut says. "We've always tried to create worlds that feel like places as much as games, and we've been able to use the latest technology to push that idea forward in ways we never have before."

That includes not just the physical surroundings, but also the people that inhabit it. "The contrast between rich and poor, between weak and strong and between civilization and the wilderness really spoke to us," says Garbut.

"We're trying to create a world where everything is more cohesive, so that both the player's actions and the way the world reacts to your actions feel consistent no matter what you do or where you do it," he continues. "It's persistent and alive, but also more deliberate and intimate in ways which makes sense for a world where you were still mostly getting around by horse or on foot. You can exchange stories with a barman in a saloon, talk yourself out of trouble with a local lawman, hijack a train or simply rummage through the drawers of an old homestead hoping to find cash or just some food to help the gang survive — and seamlessly transition between these things in ways that are both fun and in keeping with Arthur as a character."

THR - Rockstar Games Reveals New Plot Details for 'Red Dead Redemption 2'
 

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,179
They do this and claim ALL GAMEPLAY with people actually in the room. What makes you think they would be more honest in a youtube vid?

Is there something in the YouTube video you think they're being dishonest about? I've played the original Red Dead Redemption extensively and everything in the video looks like an improved version of that. I'm not seeing anything unbelievable.
 

Real Hero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,329
GTA IV: Bad to Mediocre.
GTA V: Bad.
Max Payne 3: Embarrassing.
Red Dead Redemption: Mediocre to Decent. RDR1 is the only game with a story that is in any way, half decent. It actually has some overarching themes it seeks to explore, such as the Death of the Old West. But, it does this with the subtly of a sledgehammer with nearly every character you meet in the game banging the theme over your head in case you didn't get it the first hundred times.

Rockstar/Dan Houser has never been a particularly strong writer, especially when it comes to character exploration and themes. Instead, he excels at writing dialogue. He can write some of the funniest little scenes and characters through some great dialogue and witty banter. And, I think people fall in love for this witty banter and zany characters that they forget the rest of the writing is actually pretty poor. Trevor is an entertaining character to watch, his story and characterization is a hot mess that unintentionally reinforces some really negative themes/ideas.
IV had some excellent story telling. Particularly how it told its story, driving past your cousins house as it burns etc. it used the medium well to tell its story .

Same with red dead, using the gameplay mechanics in the final show down and all that, post credits mission etc

Yeah they might not make great movies, but they make great video game stories
 
Sep 12, 2018
656
Is there something in the YouTube video you think they're being dishonest about? I've played the original Red Dead Redemption extensively and everything in the video looks like an improved version of that. I'm not seeing anything unbelievable.

To be honest I did not watch it but I am pretty sure it consists mostly of cutscenes, scripted events and very lil actual gameplay if any at all.
 

BAW

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,938
What if... GTA and Red Dead take place in the same universe? And Red Dead is the GTA world in the past?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
10 minutes none stop direct gameplay footage, not a meh trailer.
But that video has gameplay with HUD, boss. You talked about "bullshot trailers"..
Are you doubting that this is real or what?

To be honest I did not watch it but I am pretty sure it consists mostly of cutscenes, scripted events and very lil actual gameplay if any at all.

Fucking hell, man..talking all this shit yet you haven't even watched it.
 
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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,947
IV had some excellent story telling. Particularly how it told its story, driving past your cousins house as it burns etc. it used the medium well to tell its story .

Same with red dead, using the gameplay mechanics in the final show down and all that, post credits mission etc

Yeah they might not make great movies, but they make great video game stories

You've listed specific, isolated, singular moments in those games that could be considered "powerful." But, those moments alone don't make for a well told story. There is a vast gulf between Remedy's Max Payne titles and Rockstar, MP3 I believe is the clearest example of Rockstar/Houser's deficiencies in writing.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,621
You've listed specific, isolated, singular moments in those games that could be considered "powerful." But, those moments alone don't make for a well told story. There is a vast gulf between Remedy's Max Payne titles and Rockstar, MP3 I believe is the clearest example of Rockstar/Houser's deficiencies in writing.

Max Payne 3's narrative and presentation is light-years ahead of Remedy's comic book panels. It also tells a larger story beyond just "guy who is a pill-head, cop fuckup".

I'll never understand Max Payne 3's haters. Never. My tastes and those that hate MP3 are pretty much fundamentally different.

The airport sequence at the end of the game is one of the most powerful sequences in all of gaming. Rockstar's storytelling and narrative power go beyond just "the scriptwriting". They include things like the world itself, the worlds iconography and language, and all of the presentation, the music, everything.

I mean fuck, they decided to not subtitle translate the Brazilians in the game. That's an incredibly bold narrative choice that you wouldn't see in any other game on the market.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,598
Man, nothing they've shown beyond the Rockstar Logo has sold me on this game.

Mostly I've just become concerned that this will be the Houser's attempt at making a 'The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford' game, and it ending up as something meandering, self-serious and boring when translated from a great movie into an open-world action game.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
GTA IV: Bad to Mediocre.
GTA V: Bad.
Max Payne 3: Embarrassing.
Red Dead Redemption: Mediocre to Decent. RDR1 is the only game with a story that is in any way, half decent. It actually has some overarching themes it seeks to explore, such as the Death of the Old West. But, it does this with the subtly of a sledgehammer with nearly every character you meet in the game banging the theme over your head in case you didn't get it the first hundred times.

Rockstar/Dan Houser has never been a particularly strong writer, especially when it comes to character exploration and themes. Instead, he excels at writing dialogue. He can write some of the funniest little scenes and characters through some great dialogue and witty banter. And, I think people fall in love for this witty banter and zany characters that they forget the rest of the writing is actually pretty poor. Trevor is an entertaining character to watch, his story and characterization is a hot mess that unintentionally reinforces some really negative themes/ideas.
What was 'embarassing' about Max Payne 3?
 

Real Hero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,329
You've listed specific, isolated, singular moments in those games that could be considered "powerful." But, those moments alone don't make for a well told story. There is a vast gulf between Remedy's Max Payne titles and Rockstar, MP3 I believe is the clearest example of Rockstar/Houser's deficiencies in writing.
I think 3 is much better than the originals, especially as a story. They nailed everything with that game
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,947
Max Payne 3's narrative and presentation is light-years ahead of Remedy's comic book panels.

...

A) You're comparing the presentation of games over a decade apart.

It also tells a larger story beyond just "guy who is a pill-head, cop fuckup".

B) It does not. Remedy's game do, Rockstar does not. In fact, they regress the character in order to do their own version of "Man On Fire."

What was 'embarassing' about Max Payne 3?

"This place was like Baghdad with G-strings."
 

GavinUK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,736
Let me tell you a little story about 2K/Rockstar. They are the biggest bullshitters in the industry.

Example one: Bioshock Infinite: I think the year is 2009 and at Gamescom Ken Levine is narrating a supposed level from the game about one third in, besides him is a dude acting as if he is playing the game. The entire level is absolutely incredible looking and Levine tells us you can finish the game without firing a single shot, your actions will influence future levels and yada yada yada. The final game has none of that and does not even include the level that was supposedly all gameplay.

Example 2: Maffia 3 again a so called gameplay demonstration with a person play acting. I sneak in for a second viewing away from the sheduled one I did previously and see the exact same thing for a second time.

Example 3: Maffia 3 again closer to release, yet again we are told that a person will play the game in front of our eyes and the audience is asked if we want stealth or guns blazing. The crwod goes for stealth and the person doing the presentation accidentaly is ahead of script and goes to list the weapons the person supposedly playing has chosen even before he has done so.
Let me tell you a story. Mafia is spelled with one F and GTA and RDR trailers have always been on point. Everything you said is about non-Rockstar games. Not sure what your point was but you're reaching well off base my friend.
 

RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
Why does it have to be 10 minutes non-stop? Do you understand that they're trying to show many disparate things with their gameplay trailers?
But that video has gameplay with HUD, boss. You talked about "bullshot trailers"..
Are you doubting that this is real or what?
I'm not saying they should not release this kind of trailers, bullshot or whatever :P. I just said we're almost 1 month away till official release and we still haven't seen a lenghty comprehensive gameplay demo. Gameplay video series like what they did to the previous game at least.
 

P-Switch

Alt Account
Member
Jul 15, 2018
966
What planet does this take place on?

Is it like LotR and GoT that it's on a fake planet but it's supposed to make you think of old timey Earth??
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,628
I don't really think of great storytelling when I think of Rockstar. More like great at creating atmosphere and a sense of place. They're the best at those open world moments where everything just clicks like flying an airplane with the sun setting while rod Stewart is on the radio lol


From what they've shown, it looks like a current gen Red Dead. Not sure I need to see more gameplay.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,366
GTA IV: Bad to Mediocre.
GTA V: Bad.
Max Payne 3: Embarrassing.
Red Dead Redemption: Mediocre to Decent. RDR1 is the only game with a story that is in any way, half decent. It actually has some overarching themes it seeks to explore, such as the Death of the Old West. But, it does this with the subtly of a sledgehammer with nearly every character you meet in the game banging the theme over your head in case you didn't get it the first hundred times.

Rockstar/Dan Houser has never been a particularly strong writer, especially when it comes to character exploration and themes. Instead, he excels at writing dialogue. He can write some of the funniest little scenes and characters through some great dialogue and witty banter. And, I think people fall in love for this witty banter and zany characters that they forget the rest of the writing is actually pretty poor. Trevor is an entertaining character to watch, his story and characterization is a hot mess that unintentionally reinforces some really negative themes/ideas.

That's your opinion and I disagree with it.

It's okay to be wrong.

Now you're calling people with different opinions wrong? Now that's embarrassing, isn't it?
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
GTAIV review event, select amount of people were invited and each had a PR rep behind them directing their experience going Oh hey go Bowling, go catch a pigeon, you can do this, you can do that thus giving the reviewer in their limited time the impression that the game provided you with uprecedented freedom while in he actual game you are just being used as an errand boy by the other characters.
How are you a verified user when it sounds like you have no idea how these pr events go? Loads of devs do this. Them controlling the message is hardly unique to 2K.
 
Sep 12, 2018
656
How are you a verified user when it sounds like you have no idea how these pr events go? Loads of devs do this. Them controlling the message is hardly unique to 2K.

No they do not, there was no PR person present the 5 days I had in my own hotel room to play Crysis 3. The only time there were was when we were at the studio to do multiplayer and there they did not bother us.

I also did not have to sign an NDA or any bulshit agreement where we could publish the score for the game immediatly if we gave it a 9 out of 10 but had to wait until after release if it scored lower like some of these companies tend to do(thus ensuring a high pre release metacritic which drives launch day sales).

Thankfully those practices are not as prevalent as they used to be but oh hey just a lil over a month before release and here we have Rockstar once again keeping an iron grip on any info that goes out. They were not even present at Gamescom in the bizz area to show it to the press.

Tell me regardless if you like it or not do you think a one day review event with a PR person behind your back directing what you do in a game the right way to judge something with the scope of GTAIV?

Not to mention the NDA and fact that they only invited those who had previously been nothing but lyrical about the series.
 

bshock

Self-requested permanent ban
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
1,394
Man, I just can't muster any semblance of hype for this game. It's pretty but every detail released just bores me to tears. The first game didn't do much for me at all and this looks to be a gussied up version of it.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
Mmmmm, nah. And, that's every piece of internal narration in that game "This place/This thing is/was like [insert sex joke/reference]."

It's embarrassingly bad writing and a far cry from the deep and complex writing of Sam Lake.
Max talks like the broken down fatalist alcoholic he is in 3. Max talked like a lit major in the first two. Mischaracterizing all the dialogue in a game to make your point is a bad look for your argument. I like all three games so I'm not gonna denigrate one to pump up the other. 3 was the first one to not keep me at arm's length from its protagonist.

Vlad was right. There are no choices. Nothing but a straight line. The illusion comes afterwards, when you ask 'Why me?' and 'What if?' when you look back, see the branches, like a pruned bonsai tree, or a forked lightning. If you had done something differently, it wouldn't be you, it would be someone else looking back, asking a different set of questions.

vs.

We'd only been married a short time. By now, she had been dead longer than I knew her. I still haven't really forgiven myself for the Mona business, but I knew that was just grief. The insanity that comes with losing the life you had built. Michelle... I missed her with every part of my being. I hated the world for not killing me with her, and I hated myself for allowing this to happen to her and our little girl. But I knew I had to leave town.

Houser made Max relatable and three-dimensional. I haven't played a game that treated addiction better than Max Payne 3. Houser isn't perfect but he's very talented and one of the better video game writers we have, especially since he does most of his writing in the most difficult type of game there is for coherent narrative.
 

Simo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,882
Michigan, USA
I like this shot as it finally shows a second holster for dual wielding. lol
Red-Dead-Redemption-2_2018_09-17-18_003.jpg