UK charts: Slow start for Tomb Raider as Spider-Man reigns supreme

Katana_Strikes · Sep 17, 2018

Seems barmy some won't accept the exclusivity deal didn't hurt the brand. It's like burying your head in the sand at this point. When you have the majority of people/the fans mainly pick it up on PS4 when given the choice, you know you done goofed keeping it off the platform purposely before.

I think one of the only ways to save Lara (other than an extremely great reviewed/hyped/recieved game, which seems very difficult to achieve) is to literally go back to her roots. As in the original TR/TRs remastered. Sony/Activision did a great job of hyping and promoting Crash, it could work on a similar level here (though not exclusive lol). Playing on the nostalgia factor massively, her hugely (cough) recognisable model/clothing etc, from back in the day. Lara through the years has gone on so many transformations, to the point where she doesn't stand out anymore. Only her name. I think if you showed people the image of her today vs her back on the PS, few would pick her out. I'm actually amazed the original TR have just been forgotten by SE and haven't already had some treatment. But I think that time is now if it was apparent before. The time for the franchise to be invigorated and exciting again is desperately needed if SE are serious about the brand and want to it sell really well.

Kyoufu · Sep 17, 2018

Gamer17 said:
2 different bundles?

I don't know about God of War bundles but Spider-Man should be a lock as the family-friendly bundle for this holiday. It'd be a very popular Christmas gift for kids, I think.

Deleted member 10737 · Sep 17, 2018

i aspire to the level of petty where i feel giddy that a game is doing bad just cuz a previous game in the series came to my platform of choice later than another platform.

Minilla · Sep 17, 2018

Gamer17 said:
yea but for 3rd party games. they usually do 1 first party and 1 or 2 third party games like RDR and COD

Oh I see , well if they have to pick one , spidey would be the hot cake

Gamer17 · Sep 17, 2018

Japanonaut said:
Oh I see , well if they have to pick one , spidey would be the hot cake

i think so too especially due to teen rating and well being spider man

Kyoufu · Sep 17, 2018

mazi said:
i aspire to the level of petty where i feel giddy that a game is doing bad just cuz a previous game in the series came to my platform of choice later than another platform.

It's not petty, it just makes sense that a bad exclusivity deal would hamstring an IP's momentum.

How about you read the thread next time.

-girgosz- · Sep 17, 2018

To those arguing that TR sales are down because:

-SE alieneted PS4 TR fans with Rise timed-exclusivity deal.(Lol)
-SotTR launched close with Spiderman

Why are SotTR up by a good chunk on PS4 compared tor Rise and down by almost 50% on Xbox One? Generally interested in their opinion.

Mechaplum · Sep 17, 2018

Any competing titles on the XBox X? Surely Shadow would be one of the must haves due to the graphical powerhouse it is.

Kyoufu · Sep 17, 2018

-girgosz- said:
Why are SotTR up by a good chunk on PS4 compared tor Rise and down by almost 50% on Xbox One? Generally interested in their opinion.

Late port vs fresh day one game, the latter almost always sells more, no?

Mezoly · Sep 17, 2018

mazi said:
i aspire to the level of petty where i feel giddy that a game is doing bad just cuz a previous game in the series came to my platform of choice later than another platform.

Most here are talking about sales numbers and why it's performing the way it's doing. Growth for the franchise got stagnated due to the mishandling of the previous entry is analyzing/speculating not pettiness. Even back then people said the deal will hurt the future of the franchise including gaming outlets.

TheBeardedOne · Sep 17, 2018

That's too bad. Spider-Man is great, but Tomb Raider is also rather good.

MrTired · Sep 17, 2018

NeoRaider said:
There are few factors that made me less surprised about how Shadow performed.

First and most important is one of the worst marketing campaigns for AAA game, with behind the closed doors events and terrible E3 trailer/footage. Compared to huge S-M marketing by Sony, Shadow's was basically nonexistent. I never saw ppl talking so much on social media about S-M game, even months before it was released.

2nd thing is very short period from the game reveal to release of the game. Many were expecting short but big marketing campaign in that period and SE/EM did almost nothing to promote the game.

Spider-Man is huge, obviously. It's made by great developers, it's Sony exclusive and it had impressive marketing push. No one is surprised that it's doing so well.

Shadow on the other hand could have done better. But it was released just 3 days ago. Plus you can't compare physical sales today with 2015. Things change. There is nothing to compare S-M with.
I am still pretty sure that Shadow will do fine in the long run, just like i said before it was released. GP is usually buying these games weeks or months later. And that's ok.

Where was this clarity when you made this post.

It's funny how many ppl here are underrating the power of TR as franchise.

Sony exclusives are usually overhyped, especially online and on forums. It doesn't really show the real picture.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/11353640

It wasn't obvious to you or many in that thread.

NeoRaider said:
"September is not a good month for this game" - Only real competition for Shadow is Spider-Man, PS4 exclusive, with huge marketing, console bundles... etc. Shadow will destroy everything else.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/10761471
It seems your opinion changed after the fact.

To your last point you seem to be forgetting about its poor performance compared to the 2013 Tomb Raider which Square Enix failed to meet expectations https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...vises-full-year-forecast-expects-major-losses and only start beating profit expectation a year after release.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-03-07-tomb-raider-finally-beats-profit-expectations
That required the release of the definitive edition.
When game cost $135 million to make and market, I don't know how feasible the model for sales you suggested, especially when that requires deep discounting.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ave-to-try-new-models-for-single-player-games

DieH@rd · Sep 17, 2018

There are many choices for holiday bundles.

Spidey
GoW
Detroit+SoTC
RDR2
Blops4
[and FIFA for EU]

IIFloodyII · Sep 17, 2018

Mechaplum said:
Any competing titles on the XBox X? Surely Shadow would be one of the must haves due to the graphical powerhouse it is.

Possible those are just waiting for the inevitable deep sale or it coming to Gamepass. I'd imagine the majority of X owners are on the more hardcore side.

nib95 · Sep 17, 2018

-girgosz- said:
To those arguing that TR sales are down because:

-SE alieneted PS4 TR fans with Rise timed-exclusivity deal.(Lol)
-SotTR launched close with Spiderman

Why are SotTR up by a good chunk on PS4 compared tor Rise and down by almost 50% on Xbox One? Generally interested in their opinion.

Rise released on the PS4 a year after it released on the Xbox One, and not long before Uncharted 4. It wouldn't be surprising if Shadow outsells Rise on the PS4 at launch given those things.

Regarding why sales are down on Xbox, well that is the big question isn't it? It could be franchise fatigue, poor marketing, worse reception, people not liking Rise, lack of mindshare or franchise brand presence, stiffer competition and so on and so on. There's no definitive answer.

DSN2K · Sep 17, 2018

My issue with it is the game looks incredibly safe.

Mezoly · Sep 17, 2018

-girgosz- said:
To those arguing that TR sales are down because:

-SE alieneted PS4 TR fans with Rise timed-exclusivity deal.(Lol)
-SotTR launched close with Spiderman

Why are SotTR up by a good chunk on PS4 compared tor Rise and down by almost 50% on Xbox One? Generally interested in their opinion.

It's down on PS4 compared to TR reboot on PS3. Rise came a year later so it was not good numbers to begin on PS4. SoTR being up compared to Rise is not good considering the PS4 version came day & date.
I don't know why it's down on Xbox, maybe the marketing isn't there compared to Rise being a timed exclusive and all.

MrTired · Sep 17, 2018

mazi said:
i aspire to the level of petty where i feel giddy that a game is doing bad just cuz a previous game in the series came to my platform of choice later than another platform.

Didn't you attempt this with MHW though?
Your right though it is petty. Those few posters that made those types should grow up and not take business dealing so serious. However point out that the timed exclusivity hurt the franchise isn't petty it's an observation.

Seeya · Sep 17, 2018

-girgosz- said:
To those arguing that TR sales are down because:

-SE alieneted PS4 TR fans with Rise timed-exclusivity deal.(Lol)
-SotTR launched close with Spiderman

Why are SotTR up by a good chunk on PS4 compared tor Rise and down by almost 50% on Xbox One? Generally interested in their opinion.

This would seem pretty obvious to be a combination of the following:

1) The continued dominance of Sony on the UK further eroding Xbox mindshare from where it was during Rise.
2) The late release of the PS4 version of rise hurt its sales while having consolidated sales for the Xbox version at the time.

Since both versions are now releasing at the same time with the Xbox being in a worse position now than it was when Rise came out, it makes sense that PS4 sales would be up and Xbox sales would be down.

It is quite possible that the late release of Rise on the PS4 did in fact hurt awareness/mindshare of the overall brand.

Deleted member 10737 · Sep 17, 2018

MrTired said:
Didn't you attempt this with MHW though?
Your right though it is petty. Those few posters that made those types should grow up and not take business dealing so serious. However point out that the timed exclusivity hurt the franchise isn't petty it's an observation.

no i didn't. i [like many] predicted it would do less than it did, i was obviously wrong. i never had anything negative to say about its sales or success tho after it launched.

TheTruthofKayle · Sep 17, 2018

If the industry see money in Marvel's superhero universe (like happened with the movies) will see those games appear like mushrooms ...lol

El Manco · Sep 17, 2018

Split for PS4 when Far Cry 5 released in UK was 60%, gamesindustry said:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...5-uk-launch-is-the-biggest-in-far-cry-history

Split for PS4 Tomb Raider this week is 63%.
I don't see any reason to think PS4 users in UK are bitter with the TR brand after the time-exclusive RoTR.

MrTired · Sep 17, 2018

mazi said:
no i didn't. i [like many] predicted it would do less than it did, i was obviously wrong. i never had anything negative to say about its sales or success tho after it launched.

So you didn't downplay the success of the game by talking about the lack of legs in Japan even though it had outsold all previous monster hunter games worldwide. Careful now I have the receipts.

Triggerhappytel · Sep 17, 2018

Mass Effect said:
guys, its TheTruthofKayle

you know what he's about

I assume he's an Xbox guy and he's got to defend TR because it has an association with the brand now? Because I can't think of any other reason why someone would so beligerently deny evidence right there in their face.

Seeya · Sep 17, 2018

Being up over Rise by only 25% when it's a full multiplatform release this go around as oppose to an Xbox One exclusive is actually a pretty poor showing overall.

Nostradamus · Sep 17, 2018

DSN2K said:
My issue with it is the game looks incredibly safe.

The whole trilogy has been safe and that's the issue about it. There is no identity to this game. Add to that the fact that it feels a lot like Uncharted (whether people admit it or not) but without its exceptional narration and it is no surprise. The Tomb Raider name can only take it so far.

Thorrgal · Sep 17, 2018

TheTruthofKayle said:
Lol what it is this ? You think that in the long run Spiderman will sell more than TR?

I mean obviously, yes...

Viceratops said:
Me too I guess. It was definitely the exclusivity deal and not at all because it released next to Spider-Man, NBA 2K, and Dragon Quest.

Both things affected for sure.

Mechaplum · Sep 17, 2018

IIFloodyII said:
Possible those are just waiting for the inevitable deep sale or it coming to Gamepass. I'd imagine the majority of X owners are on the more hardcore side.

I guess I can understand the former, though I'd figure this will be on of their tentpole showcases. Don't get the hardcore comment though, does it mean that Shadow isn't a hardcore title?

Plum · Sep 17, 2018

Kyser73 said:
Historical brand association

If there's one thing to bring back from the "Old-Tomb Raider" days, the "energy-drink-that-used-to-be-a-medical-drink-tie-in" should really have been one of the last things on their mind lol.

Bundy said:
lol Oh man... And for whatever reason.... I never heard of "Lucozade" before :O

I've only ever seen it here in the UK. It's exactly what you'd expect, a very sugary energy drink with strong flavours. In fact, way before my time it was actually sold in pharmacists as something to drink when ill, but they've since re-branded as more sports and "energy" focused. I personally love the Zero-Sugar Pink Lemonade variant, but the full-sugar stuff is really quite disgusting nowadays... especially since they aren't even using the same amount of sugar anymore due to a new sugar tax.

IIFloodyII · Sep 17, 2018

TheTruthofKayle said:
If the industry see money in Marvel's superhero universe (like happened with the movies) will see those games appear like mushrooms ...lol

Square has already locked most other Avengers down and I doubt Marvel will want too many non-Square's Avengers canon games around. The X-Men could be interesting though, especially if no one can get everything like Square did with the Avengers.

Linus815 · Sep 17, 2018

Not gonna lie, I expected TR to outdo Spider-Man at least on its week 1 sales simply because I assumed that Xbox gamers have no AAA game to play, so they'll be picking it up - plus MS has the marketing rights too.
But this... is surprising. In a bad way. I think the blame mostly falls on Square's incompetence handling the franchise. They have really made a big mess of it despite the very strong start in 2013.

Triggerhappytel · Sep 17, 2018

MrTired said:
18 million as of last year November.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...matsuda-on-growing-square-enixs-global-empire

Interesting. So Rise was at "nearly 7 million units" 2 years after being on the market. I guess optimistically it might be around 8 million by now?

IIFloodyII · Sep 17, 2018

Mechaplum said:
I guess I can understand the former, though I'd figure this will be on of their tentpole showcases. Don't get the hardcore comment though, does it mean that Shadow isn't a hardcore title?

More they'd have probably seen the other 2 go on a deep sale really fast.

MrTired · Sep 17, 2018

El Manco said:
Split for PS4 when Far Cry 5 released in UK was 60%, gamesindustry said:
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...5-uk-launch-is-the-biggest-in-far-cry-history

Split for PS4 Tomb Raider this week is 63%.
I don't see any reason to think PS4 users in UK are bitter with the TR brand after the time-exclusive RoTR.

Bitter is the wrong word, uninterested. If you didn't play Rise of the Tomb Raider would you buy Shadow of the Tomb Raider?

v_iHuGi · Sep 17, 2018

Marvel will only partner with teams they know will offer quality so Sony is one of the few candidates for other licenses.

Another possible studios that'll deliver are :

CD Project
RockSteady
Rockstar
Remedy
Ready at Dawn

Deleted member 10737 · Sep 17, 2018

MrTired said:
So you didn't downplay the success of the game by talking about the lack of legs in Japan even though it had outsold all previous monster hunter games worldwide. Careful now I have the receipts.

lol are you threatening me? saying it didn't have legs like the previous entries (which is a fact) isn't saying it wasn't successful. do whatever you want with those "receipts", i know what i wrote in that thread.

Deleted member 26104 · Sep 17, 2018

Seeya said:
Being up over Rise by only 25% when it's a full multiplatform release this go around as oppose to an Xbox One exclusive is actually a pretty poor showing overall.

So you know the digital figures? A lot has changed in buying habits in the laat 3 years. Digital is making up 50%+ of many publishers sales these days, up from low 20s at most a few years back, and these numbers don't include digital.

People need to calm down until we get the full picture.

Mechaplum · Sep 17, 2018

IIFloodyII said:
More they'd have probably seen the other 2 go on a deep sale really fast.

Makes sense, I'm waiting for it to go on sale as well, steam though.

Nightengale · Sep 17, 2018

v_iHuGi said:
Marvel will only partner with teams they know will offer quality so Sony is one of the few candidates for other licenses.

Another possible studios that'll deliver are :

CD Project
RockSteady
Rockstar
Remedy
Ready at Dawn

Marvel has partnered with Telltale and Capcom too, so not true.

Marvel will partner with those who can pay the bills.

Deleted member 20297 · Sep 17, 2018

v_iHuGi said:
Marvel will only partner with teams they know will offer quality so Sony is one of the few candidates for other licenses.

Another possible studios that'll deliver are :

CD Project
RockSteady
Rockstar
Remedy
Ready at Dawn

Are you sure?

-girgosz- · Sep 17, 2018

nib95 said:
Rise released on the PS4 a year after it released on the Xbox One, and not long before Uncharted 4. It wouldn't be surprising if Shadow outsells Rise on the PS4 at launch given those things.

Regarding why sales are down on Xbox, well that is the big question isn't it? It could be franchise fatigue, poor marketing, worse reception, people not liking Rise, lack of mindshare or franchise brand presence, stiffer competition and so on and so on. There's no definitive answer.

So it seems Shadow did fairly okay(not great) if we count digital on PS4. On the other hand it bombed on Xbox. Seems strange blaming SE for alienating PS fans for the games dissapointing sales when the game would have decent sales if Xbox sales would't be down by almost 50%.

Seeya · Sep 17, 2018

Nostradamus said:
The whole trilogy has been safe and that's the issue about it. There is no identity to this game. Add to that the fact that it feels a lot like Uncharted (whether people admit it or not) but without its exceptional narration and it is no surprise. The Tomb Raider name can only take it so far.

I feel like the first entry was the least safe and had an indenting to it (basically survival thriller).

I was interested in the (false) premise of the sequel basically being PTSD Laura having to reconcile who she thought she was and who she became, and the stress of the events in general, as well as what the revelations of it meant for her (particularly when they would have had no proof of the supernatural elements)...

Y'know like an actual character study that addressed the narrative complaints from the original...

Instead the sequel barely paid lip service to these ideas and doubled down on the narrative issues in the original; cementing Lara as this non person character where nothing had consequences even to the scale of the world itself.

The pulpy Uncharted series handles this better.

IIFloodyII · Sep 17, 2018

Mechaplum said:
Makes sense, I'm waiting for it to go on sale as well, steam though.

Same, too many other games coming in the next couple months and I'm pretty confident I'll be able to find this for under £20 within 3 months.

v_iHuGi · Sep 17, 2018

c0de said:
Are you sure?

One bad game doesn't make you a bad developer, let's not forget their amazing handheld portfolio.

Sumio Mondo · Sep 17, 2018

Didn't even know it was out, in all honesty. Square-Enix didn't seem to be pushing it half as much as Sony have been with Spider-Man.

Deleted member 7753 · Sep 17, 2018

c0de said:
Are you sure?

You could say the same thing about Remedy

Deleted member 20297 · Sep 17, 2018

v_iHuGi said:
One bad game doesn't make you a bad developer, let's not forget their amazing handheld portfolio.

I still don't see them competing in the AAA league where such a game would need to be made, to be honest. Not without further advice or direction from "outside".

Kyoufu · Sep 17, 2018

c0de said:
Are you sure?

I keep forgetting Ready at Dawn have only made The Order 1886 in their 15 years in the industry.

Deleted member 20297 · Sep 17, 2018

JammerLammy said:
You could say the same thing about Remedy

You are right.

v_iHuGi · Sep 17, 2018

c0de said:
I still don't see them competing in the AAA league where such a game would need to be made, to be honest. Not without further advice or direction from "outside".

That's where Sony enters.

UK charts: Slow start for Tomb Raider as Spider-Man reigns supreme

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