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Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
do you donate money to politicians whose policies and political agendas you not only disagree with but will cost you financially?

So now its donations and not fees for starpowered presence and speeches at events? You realize they pay lots of famous political and nonpolitical people alike for these events, right?

No offense, but if we take anything from this, can it be to ignore the posters you are responding to here? We let morons like that drag us into fighting amongst ourselves last time over bullshit and this orange cheeto got into office and is running the country off a cliff.

If someone wants to sit in a corner and piss and moan empty concerns about "How dare you give a paid speech" or "Democrats have never done anything positive for the country" hows about we NOT take the fucking bait this time and just leave them to cry in their corner while we flood the polls November.

No time for that bullshit this year. We fucked around playing that game last time and I truly believe it cost us an election as we sat around arguing with idiots. These guys have zero intentions of discussing the actual topic. ZERO. Its 100% attempts to derail a topic everyone the left can agree on. And it always shows up early.
Yep. I'm done now. Hate derails over bs. And conspiracy theory ones are the worst.
 
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Gyro Zeppeli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,289
Well written article.

The Republican Party is the real problem here. They've been an eye sore in decades past, but now they've reached a point where they are full-on crazy and evil. We need opposing parties that vary in their liberal stance, and that can include some liberal parties being more conservative economically. Social and healthcare issues should not be as bad as they are under a Republican rule.
 

kambaybolongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
because of people like you
people like me who voted for Bernie in the primary and Hilary in the general? damn I guess it is my fault dude
So now its donations and not fees for starpowered presence and speeches at events? You realize they pay lots of famous political and nonpolitical people alike for these events, right?
the sheer force of will you're exerting to stop yourself from thinking critically about this is astounding.

I salute you o7
 
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Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
I mean, there's a lot of blame to go around, but why bother? I, personally, think the blame falls first on Clinton herself, second on the media and how they handled the election, and then we go down the list to Russia, non-voters, protest voters, and so on, but it's over.

2016 is in the past. No sense in continuing to hurl "this is your fault" around when it literally does no good.

Not calling out people on their shit that is literally designed to hurt democratic morale does active harm, so I'm going to call this a hard disagree
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Well written article.

The Republican Party is the real problem here. They've been an eye sore in decades past, but now they've reached a point where they are full-on crazy and evil. We need opposing parties that vary in their liberal stance, and that can include some liberal parties being more conservative economically. Social and healthcare issues should not be as bad as they are under a Republican rule.
Ironically, I think the only way to solve this is for more socially liberal, fiscally conservative individuals to run for office as Republicans in red states. Not sure how else this can be achieved.
Not calling out people on their shit that is literally designed to hurt democratic morale does active harm, so I'm going to call this a hard disagree
Calling out people on their shit does active harm, as well. If people are made to feel bad, they're not going to be motivated to work for you and vote.
 

bangai-o

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,527
I agree, but what to do other than circle jerk and complain? We can only vote once every two years and a lot of people seem to not care.
We can make certain changes in our everyday lives by being mindful of our purchases and of our carbon footprints. We can support journalism by subscribing. Some of us can contribute to the field of research by pursuing graduate and PhDs in the sciences and liberal arts. Some can become teachers, social workers, and community volunteers. Voting alone could also be pointless if we dont take our own actions to pursue change.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
While some Democrats have sticky fingers, and may not legislate in their constituencies' best interest, it bears remembering that the current crop of post-Tea Party Republicans are the kind of people who would take a circular saw to your face if they could get away with it. Doubly so if you're brown and/or LGBT.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Calling out people on their shit does active harm, as well. If people are made to feel bad, they're not going to be motivated to work for you and vote.

People who are only interested in hurting Democratic morale are not interested in voting for Democrats, no matter what they say. They do everything they can to make people not want to do that.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Now if only she would condemn the centrists who contribute to the cycle and further right wing path this country goes down.
 

TokyoJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,044
Does she talk about how money in politics ruined democracy before Donald Trump had the chance to? Because if she doesn't, she is missing the forest for the trees.

I like the fact that I can call your comments stupid in nature without some secret service knocking on my door to arrest me and ship me off to some gulag to do hard labor without any justification.

The difference between Hilary and Trump is one actually is well educated and understands the rule of law and how it works in a democracy and the other is happy to deny minorities the ability to exist.

The damage Trump has done will take generations to repair, our kids will suffer because of what he has done with his party and we must all fight back for a future where we all live in peace.

But but her emails and money in politics.
 

Wafflinson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
2,084
Now if only she would condemn the centrists who contribute to the cycle and further right wing path this country goes down.
Yup. It is totally the fault of people who agree with you 90% of the time. Because god forbid anyone have a different opinion than you even on rare occasions. Stupid neolibs!

Can't possibly be the ACTUAL bad guy's faults. That wouldn't make any sense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,017
thanx captain obvious
Why do this? Had it been Sanders, Obama, Biden, Harris, or countless others would this be the response? Or is it cause, Clinton, yah nm...
She's not wrong. Like her or not, she's definitely right on Trump.
Yep, she blared that shit like a fog horn. People didn't give a damn, least not enough to actually get out there and vote. Clinton is far from perfect, but she ain't wrong here.

Oh shit, why am I here, I see we are doing the purity progressive shit already. Nm, I'll just see to the door.
 
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Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
Why do this? Had it been Sanders, Obama, Biden, Harris, or countless others would this be the response? Or is it cause, Clinton, yah nm...

It's because it's Clinton.

4117818b2b40f5f385ebdddac38295c8.jpg
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Yup. It is totally the fault of people who agree with you 90% of the time. Because god forbid anyone have a different opinion than you even on rare occasions.

Can't possibly be the ACTUAL bad guy's faults. That wouldn't make any sense.

Are you done being condescending and denying reality or do you want to admit to the fault centrists play in constantly compromising the poor and minorities away to Republicans for the past few decades?
 

Wafflinson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
2,084
Are you done being condescending and denying reality or do you want to admit to the fault centrists play in constantly compromising the poor and minorities away to Republicans?
Are you done living a life with blinders on where only you and those who hold identical views as you are considered moral human beings?

You dream on a political mono-culture will never be fulfilled.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Are you done living a life with blinders on where only you and those who hold identical views as you are considered moral human beings?

You dream on a political mono-culture will never be fulfilled.

So you want to deny reality and the part centrists play in helping keep this nation on rightward path. Got it loud and clear
 

Wafflinson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
2,084
So you want to deny reality and the part centrists play in helping keep this nation on rightward path. Got it loud and clear
Ah the strawman.

The coward always find his way out somehow.


Plenty of things play a roll in making progress difficult. Democracy is one of them. Just because something makes your goals harder doesn't make it bad or evil.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
Her and Obama speaking total truth the past week but sadly it'll fall on deaf ears for the ones that really need to hear it the most.
As I said earlier, the only way to fix the situation is to get more progressive Republicans to run for office. As it stands, the Tea Party has hijacked the party, and has been going further and further to the right for several election cycles now.
 

Wafflinson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
2,084
User banned (1 week) for hostility, recent history of similar behaviour
If you're going to argue I'm using a logical fallacy, at least know what they mean. Not sorry I take issue with what centrists have contributed to.

Always some excuse for degenerate behavior.

May as well be a Tea Party member bitching about RINO's.

Enjoy that company in your quest for ideological purity.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,338
Oh god. The money in politics shit again. Hilary have been cozy with Wall Street but she's a different fucking beast than the guy who charges the secret service to rent golf carts at his resorts and is claiming 3000 of our own citizens didn't die in Puerto Rico. She sure as shit wouldn't be doing the irrevocable damage to our country and it's own citizens compared to Russian agent Orange. Christ. Sometimes I wonder what the fuck is wrong with people who pull this purity test bullshit. It's no better than republicans with their RINO shit.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,700
Siloam Springs
It's not so obvious to enough people that it needs to be said.

I think that is the issue, outside of our grouping on ERA, is that if you use a reasonable well thought out line to help them along, they just call you stupid and ignore you. It's ridiculously scary to me that people can't have an open mind.

I also see it as a weakness for Hillary to say anything publicly, for whatever reason, people just want to shut her out of their heads. Is it fair, hell no, but it is what it is at this point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,017
You know we're going to have to deal with the people who voted for Trump sooner or later.

I realize things are really bad but a moderate dem in the oval office with another 4 years of congress gridlock would not be as great as y'all are making it sound.
No offense, but you aren't getting that voter back. No one that pulled the trigger for Trump is gonna vote for a Democrat in the near future.

Serious, if you find someone that saw Trump/Clinton, and went yep I want Trump and you think you can convince them to vote for a D next time. Yah I have a bridge for ya.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Always some excuse for degenerate behavior.

May as well be a Tea Party member bitching about RINO's.

Enjoy that company in your quest for ideological purity.

I'd just like for minorities and the poor to not be tossed to the wolves by centrists anymore. But sure, that makes me a degenerate and comparable to the Tea Party. Thanks for the fulfilling conversation. I can tell the Democratic party is still in a good place when suggestions to not fuck over the base and have a prominent voice say as much are met with derision and insults.
 
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SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
Are you done being condescending and denying reality or do you want to admit to the fault centrists play in constantly compromising the poor and minorities away to Republicans for the past few decades?
The people that align with Democrats don't have the same type of tribalism that the far right can rely on, so most Democratic presidents will end up being moderate because of the wide spectrum of interests they need to appeal to.

I'm of the opinion that if someone is going to ignore reasoning and reality and vote against their interests then there's little that can be done to change their mind.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,700
Siloam Springs
The people that align with Democrats don't have the same type of tribalism that the far right can rely on, so most Democratic presidents will end up being moderate because of the wide spectrum of interests they need to appeal to.

I'm of the opinion that if someone is going to ignore reasoning and reality and vote against their interests then there's little that can be done to change their mind.

It's sad but true, extremely sad, to the point of just not wanting to talk politics with a lot of the locals at this point.
 

Retromelon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
622
God.... if only! It really needs to happen. It's ridiculous that the person that got the MOST VOTES still loses because sparsely populated states would get their feelings hurt.
The right would say that the founders didn't want tyranny of the majority, and that the electoral college is necessary so that the concerns of less inhabited states can be heard
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,304
Terana
Oh god. The money in politics shit again. Hilary have been cozy with Wall Street but she's a different fucking beast than the guy who charges the secret service to rent golf carts at his resorts and is claiming 3000 of our own citizens didn't die in Puerto Rico. She sure as shit wouldn't be doing the irrevocable damage to our country and it's own citizens compared to Russian agent Orange. Christ. Sometimes I wonder what the fuck is wrong with people who pull this purity test bullshit. It's no better than republicans with their RINO shit.
She's preaching to the choir here, we know this. We didn't vote for Trump or say that she wouldn't be better. Most anyone would be better though. That doesn't absolve her from criticism, especially when she talks about democracy, and I say that as a real staunch supporter of hers back in 16. Money in politics isn't some little thing to be waved away, it strikes at exactly what she's talking about, just from a different angle. American corporatocracy is a real thing.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
No offense, but you aren't getting that voter back. No one that pulled the trigger for Trump is gonna vote for a Democrat in the near future.

Serious, if you find someone that saw Trump/Clinton, and went yep I want Trump and you think you can convince them to vote for a D next time. Yah I have a bridge for ya.
It's still a problem that needs to be addressed. This isnt just about voting. Pushing Clinton into a marginal win wouldnt have stopped the problems we're currently facing. Trump was just a wake up call.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
As I said earlier, the only way to fix the situation is to get more progressive Republicans to run for office. As it stands, the Tea Party has hijacked the party, and has been going further and further to the right for several election cycles now.
lol.

For real though, the way to fix it is to burn the current Republican Party to the ground first. You're not going to get a single "progressive Republican" in office until that happens anyways.
 

Falconbox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
She's totally on point but I fear there is still so much Hillary hate even among liberals her message will be missed, ignored or flat out rebuked.

Hillary hate? No, never....

Texas board votes to drop Hillary Clinton, Helen Keller from history curriculum

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...inton-mandated-history-curriculum/1316956002/

Really though, she needs to continue to lay low for a while, at least until after the midterms. Don't give Fox News any free ammo.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Her reasoning is on point. Her logic and viewpoint are correct. But you know what? We have a President who speaks like a 5 year old, and he was voted for instead of voting for the person who said all this while making perfect fucking sense. I fear that its already a tad late, but I hipe I'm wrong.
 

Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 21, 2018
2,258
The Hillary Clinton hatred in this thread is bizarre, and shows how far right-wing propaganda went. Some of the talking points in here are downright insane, but it's expected - Hillary is female, and women just can't do things that men like Bernie do all the time.

And I thought my personal dislike for some of her points (Reagan -> good points on aids, very abominable point considering reagan was the guy that happily stopped aids help because that'd kill gays) was extreme, but some of you are absolutely ridiculous.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Hillary hate? No, never....



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...inton-mandated-history-curriculum/1316956002/

Really though, she needs to continue to lay low for a while, at least until after the midterms. Don't give Fox News any free ammo.

Fox News is an ammo manufacturing organization. People need to stop with the pretense that actions from the left are giving anyone ammo. All that does is put the tools for driving a message solely in the hands of Fox News.