This is likely the biggest reason it will under perform in the end, regardless of whenever it released. Being merely competent isn't really good enough in this industry anymore.
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UK charts: Slow start for Tomb Raider as Spider-Man reigns supreme
- Thread starter Loudninja
- Start date
This is likely the biggest reason it will under perform in the end, regardless of whenever it released. Being merely competent isn't really good enough in this industry anymore.
Doc always brings the laughs!
Something like that.
Ah, good catch. My bad. I've always gotten the two Phils mixed up. The point I was making is that people act though game companies are just as much bitter fanboys as they are, when they see each other as colleagues and people move between companies all the time, particularly outside Japan where you do get a fair bit more company loyalty.
Regardless, the bigger issue is that historically Tomb Raider games sell worse than their predecessors. The series has a bit of an issue growing between entries, and the only game that really bucked the trend was the 2013 reboot that went full action.
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I doubt that exclusivity did a damage to the brand, the franchise is still a strong on PS as seen on the split. There's just too much competition this time especially with Spidey was just released and RDR2/COD and other big hitters around the corner.
It's also not exciting, one thing to notice regarding this gen is that a lot of tired old sequels have fallen down sales-wise like Halo, Gears of War, TR, CoD, etc
It's also not exciting, one thing to notice regarding this gen is that a lot of tired old sequels have fallen down sales-wise like Halo, Gears of War, TR, CoD, etc
I'm not sure if serious, but that's exactly what they are going to do. Crystal Dynamics already moved on from it to their Avengers game and I think Eidos are also rumoured to be working on one (Guardians of the Galaxy I think it was).
I'm just going to assume that this thread ran the usual course.
Spider-Man is a brand new game based off the most popular superhero that had coverage since 2016 (maybe 2015 I forget). Shadow got its gameplay reveal in Spring this year, was just thrown out in the middle of September to little hype, and is the third game in the series with largely reused mechanics and assets. Low sales compared to Spider-Man breaking records was unfortunately expected.
I'm hopeful and confident the game can make it up in the long run, Lara deserves better.
Spider-Man is a brand new game based off the most popular superhero that had coverage since 2016 (maybe 2015 I forget). Shadow got its gameplay reveal in Spring this year, was just thrown out in the middle of September to little hype, and is the third game in the series with largely reused mechanics and assets. Low sales compared to Spider-Man breaking records was unfortunately expected.
I'm hopeful and confident the game can make it up in the long run, Lara deserves better.
Regarding the sale number of the Shadow of the Tomb Raider, the PS4 elitism in this thread is a bit much. Some are saying that Shadow of the Tomb Raider isn't super successful because of the time exclusive deal Square made with Microsoft and the reasons are IMO very petty and arrogant.
1. Some argue PS4's audience is the core audience of Tomb Raider.
I hate this argument because it is basically saying that Xbox owners don't like in Tomb Raider and implying Xbox owners have poor taste in games. Sure, you could look at the numbers of Shadow and say PS4 owners buys more. However, if we factor in the install base gap between the two and look at the percentage of Shadow buyers, it's basically the situation of "the biggest platform sells more."
2. Some argue the exclusive deal somehow makes PS4 owners don't like Tomb Raider and therefore don't support Shadow.
This argument implies that PS4 owners are petty and therefore will not tolerate any game comes to their platform at a later date than the competing platform. That is just ridiculous. Just because you are petty, don't assume all the PS4 owners are as well.
1. Some argue PS4's audience is the core audience of Tomb Raider.
I hate this argument because it is basically saying that Xbox owners don't like in Tomb Raider and implying Xbox owners have poor taste in games. Sure, you could look at the numbers of Shadow and say PS4 owners buys more. However, if we factor in the install base gap between the two and look at the percentage of Shadow buyers, it's basically the situation of "the biggest platform sells more."
2. Some argue the exclusive deal somehow makes PS4 owners don't like Tomb Raider and therefore don't support Shadow.
This argument implies that PS4 owners are petty and therefore will not tolerate any game comes to their platform at a later date than the competing platform. That is just ridiculous. Just because you are petty, don't assume all the PS4 owners are as well.
It's Braaier, he turns everything into console wars.
On topic, I'm actually more interested in Shadow now that it's much more about exploration and tomb raiding. Might even scrap my plans to finish Rise first and grab this on Steam later on.
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It's more likely that a not insignificant amount of PS4 players just assumed it was also exclusive like Rise, due to Xbox marketing, so haven't paid it much attention to learn otherwise, not people saying PS4 users have better tastes or whatever.
Also the Xbox One version is down significantly too, so it's not crazy to assume the core audience (on console) is on PlayStation, attach rate will always favour the worse selling platform too.
I think the series biggest problem is they are always on sale, to the point it's likely the very vast majority got or seen 1 or both go for very cheap prices and are fine waiting this time (it's what group I'm in).
1)I mean, the PS audience makes up a significant portion of overall sales for the TR games. It doesn't really need to be discussed beyond that and there is nothing "arrogant" about a fact.
2)It has nothing to do with being petty. It is just the reality of how they chose to launch the game. People will have moved on to other games by time the port came, they may have just watched it on YouTube, they may have bought a X1 to play it, they may not have even known about it coming to PS4 since the port announcement obviously didn't receive the same level of promo as when it launched on X1, etc...
There are numerous reasons why PS4 owners didn't really show up in droves for the Shadow launch. If they didn't get into Rise for any of the reasons listed above, they most likely wouldn't get into the sequel that follows either.
Those are the consequences of the exclusive deal. It isn't saying MS is evil or that SE had it in for Sony. It just means that is how things go following the deal.
The reason why I'm not getting this game is because 2013 did nothing for me. It was a pain to go until the end, boring encounters and "so so" plot.
Each piece of information about the sequels said that the game was not a must-buy or did not have many differences from the first.
Hell, I only played because it got on sale on PS+
this is square so it;s a failure and on 3 platforms
ppl are petty
and eventually hated on companies that took too long localizing things making year+ delays
I think the SE and MS deal hurt the franchise for the following reasons..
1. A lot of PS4 players who enjoyed TR2013 and would have been there for Rise weren't there for ROTR launch due to the timed exclusive deal.
2. Those same players moved on to other games and probably lost interest or weren't aware of when ROTR finally showed up on PS4. I talked to a lot of my PS4 buddies and many of them skipped the game when it came out because they were already satisfied with UC4 in 2016.
3. Those people that skipped ROTR are less likely to show up for its sequel. It's not out of malice or anything, it's just that they haven't caught up with the story and it's hard to be invested in a sequel to a game you've never played.
SE made that deal with MS for short term gains but in doing so they alienated a huge portion of the TR fanbase who reside on Playstation. The series has always been more popular on PS for obvious reasons. TR2013 had a lot of momentum after it released and I can't see any other reason why its sequel wouldn't have been more successful financially. The negative backlash and PR from the exclusive deal, and also the indifference of Playstation gamers after the game was released a year later hurt the franchise's momentum.
It's was a dumb mistake that SE made, they tried to make some short term gains with MS but it backfired like a lot of MS' plans and deals early this gen. If I remember correctly, the backlash was so huge that SE was forced to announce a short while later after making the exclusive announcement that it would be coming to PS a year later. I don't even think MS won NPD the month that TR released. To make it even worse, Uncharted was delayed to 2016. Imagine how much better the game would have done if they launched it on PS4 in 2015 after Uncharted's delay. SE dropped the ball big time.
Edit: These things hurt ROTR and SOTR in addition to the terrible release dates. SE launching these TR games next to mega AAA titles hasn't helped matters.
1. A lot of PS4 players who enjoyed TR2013 and would have been there for Rise weren't there for ROTR launch due to the timed exclusive deal.
2. Those same players moved on to other games and probably lost interest or weren't aware of when ROTR finally showed up on PS4. I talked to a lot of my PS4 buddies and many of them skipped the game when it came out because they were already satisfied with UC4 in 2016.
3. Those people that skipped ROTR are less likely to show up for its sequel. It's not out of malice or anything, it's just that they haven't caught up with the story and it's hard to be invested in a sequel to a game you've never played.
SE made that deal with MS for short term gains but in doing so they alienated a huge portion of the TR fanbase who reside on Playstation. The series has always been more popular on PS for obvious reasons. TR2013 had a lot of momentum after it released and I can't see any other reason why its sequel wouldn't have been more successful financially. The negative backlash and PR from the exclusive deal, and also the indifference of Playstation gamers after the game was released a year later hurt the franchise's momentum.
It's was a dumb mistake that SE made, they tried to make some short term gains with MS but it backfired like a lot of MS' plans and deals early this gen. If I remember correctly, the backlash was so huge that SE was forced to announce a short while later after making the exclusive announcement that it would be coming to PS a year later. I don't even think MS won NPD the month that TR released. To make it even worse, Uncharted was delayed to 2016. Imagine how much better the game would have done if they launched it on PS4 in 2015 after Uncharted's delay. SE dropped the ball big time.
Edit: These things hurt ROTR and SOTR in addition to the terrible release dates. SE launching these TR games next to mega AAA titles hasn't helped matters.
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Probably end up like Rise, slow launch sales (wasn't it around 190k in US for 360/XB1) but will quickly get a heavy discount. and SE will announce 6 million sold in two years and nearly everyone who just focus on units will say hey it did really well. Rottr didn't make the top 10 of November NPD but the cut off in the last two months of the year is quite high.
Rise ships ~7 million
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ri...opies-tomb-raider-2013-ships-11-million.8293/
TR 2013 was discounted, sales were better at launch but SE are not shy of cutting the price. I bought TR 2013 less than half price 2 months after launch. I think the brand is still interesting to a wide pool of people but like with Rise and somewhat 2013, it needs to be a low price.
Rise ships ~7 million
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ri...opies-tomb-raider-2013-ships-11-million.8293/
TR 2013 was discounted, sales were better at launch but SE are not shy of cutting the price. I bought TR 2013 less than half price 2 months after launch. I think the brand is still interesting to a wide pool of people but like with Rise and somewhat 2013, it needs to be a low price.
As a selfish consumer, I'm looking forward to picking this up for coffee money, but as a gamer this is depressing. I hope this doesn't signal a death nail for the franchise. I'm in the TR2013 being much better than Rise camp. Seems quite a few must share the sentiment coming off the last game.
I'm in that camp. I really enjoyed TR2013 and beat it multiple times on PS3, PS4, and PC but I can't be bothered to finish ROTR because I kinda find it boring. I don't know what it is but it just feels off :( . I'm still a fan of the franchise though and I hope they are able to bounce back from this. I'd be very sad if we never get anymore TR games.
I agree. That's one reason why I agree with ppl saying there wasn't an audience for it on XBO. I always associated it with Sony.
Metal Gear Solid also.
Wow, was not aware it was that expensive for this game. I don't see game selling a lot of units at $60 unless frequent significant discounts like the previous Tomb Raider games ironically.
Perhaps there would be a sequel reboot for next-gen like God of War. Then again, Square might see the success of Spider-Man and go all in of there development teams making Marvel Games.
I'm hoping if we get another reboot they try to bring back the old PS1 Lara for nostalgia reasons. I really enjoyed the TR Anniversary game during the PS2 era for that reason. We need something like that but for modern consoles and with modern gameplay mechanics. Bringing back some nostalgia could really help the series.
Could the low selling of SOTTR on Xbox due to some people thinking its coming to Xbox Gamepass? I know one of my friend is not buying the game saying he just wait for it to hit Gamepass....
Not surprised in the least. se bungled the series horribly after the success of the 2013 reboot. Now yet another classic franchise will go into hibernation due to se's incompetence.
While it sold 70% less than the first one, it did better than RotTR and that game sold okay in the long run, that's why they did a third entry.
They should have released this game around the premiere of the movie last May.
And yes they did wrong because both the three games while entertaining are very similar and look alike with Jungle/Forest/Jungle sets.
They should have released this game around the premiere of the movie last May.
And yes they did wrong because both the three games while entertaining are very similar and look alike with Jungle/Forest/Jungle sets.
A disappointment for me is the story and characters. Something with a mix of the old games and the movies would be more fun. They needed to copy the Uncharted character side even though it's an origin story to get those big launches. The whole cast in the reboots are so bland and serious, rocks on the beach are a lot more interesting.
Don't feel bad, this is a repercussion of a choice done by the publisher and was promoted by the head of the studio behind the last game, who is no longer there, they are the only ones to blame not us as consumers.
Cheer up.
A bit problem you might be overlooking is that a difficult to measure number of classic Tomb Raider fans hate at worst, strongly dislike at best the 2013 reboot that is the most successful game in the series. The underlying problem Tomb Raider has as a series is a deeply fractured fanbase who want mutually incompatible things. Literally everything about Tomb Raider 2013 which the new fanbase loves, is things the older fanbase wants gone. Shadow of the Tomb Raider is stuck in the middle where it isn't hardcore enough for a lot of passionate classic Tomb Raider fans while isn't action-packed enough for 2013 fans.
In other words, Tomb Raider is stuck in a situation where it really can't win due to being a AAA game that can't afford to find a niche and pursue that. Classic Tomb Raider doesn't sell. A huge chunk of the 2013 Tomb Raider audience doesn't care about classic Tomb Raider. Shadow is trying to win back classic Tomb Raider fans, and there aren't all that many of them, as seen by how the sales of the Core games declined rapidly and LAU sold in the 2 million each range.
Tomb Raider became a massive success by comprehensively selling out, Ghost Recon: Wildlands-style. In that light, any attempt to please the original alienated fanbase is going to cause problems.
my new mixtape will be called "Rap Atheist" got to catch on the wave that's starting with name titles
Same exact hot take, my friend. I'm actually not a huge TR fan though I loved the originals. Always thought Lara could remain a gaming mainstay but that first exclusivity thing just seemed so silly in retrospect.
I don't think it's necessarily about pettiness but marketing and brand or franchise perception. If you are exclusive to the console with the lowest install base, automatically you're not only missing out on selling to the largest demographic of console gamers, but also targeting that said demographic in marketing, and naturally that can affect the wider perception or recognition of your franchise. There'd literally be far fewer people who were aware of, talking about or hyped for it by virtue of the split and marketing, and that can carry on to any sequel in terms of prolonged diminished brand or franchise perception.
In a way a similar thing sort of happened with Titanfall 2, which also had fairly disappointing sales and may have also felt a slight negative longterm mindshare and marketing impact from initially being exclusive to the Xbox One.
Those Dragon Quest sales are absolutely criminal. This is why we can't have good things isn't it :(
I don't really have any information on Shadow's overall success/failure, but I do know that the game is pretty freaking impressive and much better than the first two. i can't really speculate as to why it's being outsold by Spider-man other than that most things would be outsold by Spider-man.
Not trying to be an ass, but wasn't TR officially released on Friday? I know that's how it was here in the US but not sure about the UK. Tuesday - Thursday was the $99 version correct?
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Just checked the release date for the UK and it was the 14th. Are we seriously counting 2 days worth of data here? Granted, Spider-Man is a juggernaut, but this seems a bit unfair to both titles.
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Just checked the release date for the UK and it was the 14th. Are we seriously counting 2 days worth of data here? Granted, Spider-Man is a juggernaut, but this seems a bit unfair to both titles.
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Yeah they should have launched it during the AAA drought.
I'm playing TR right now and it's not your average action adventure game. It's a bit more niche and it wasn't really marketed that much. Add the mixed reception and it's understandable why it's not selling well. I don't think Xbox exclusivity of the last game has led to the brand somehow diminishing. The only way I see the exclusivity with Xbox having an effect is Rise not selling as well and that leading to less budget, including marketing for Shadow.
She just shouldn't release a week after one of the most anticipated games of the generation, and only 6 weeks before the other most anticipated game of the generation. I loved 2013 and Rise, but I flat out don't have time for Shadow right now. I'll pick it up after new years, will probably be half-price by then anyway.
I hope this at least lets the creative heads set aside their arrogance and look into what went wrong.
TR 2013 was ambitious and very flawed. But there was little else like it. Rise and Shadow are shining examples of the most bottom of the barrel AAA mediocrity and did jack all to fix what was wrong with 2013.
TR 2013 was ambitious and very flawed. But there was little else like it. Rise and Shadow are shining examples of the most bottom of the barrel AAA mediocrity and did jack all to fix what was wrong with 2013.
Here's the thing. Quality doesn't matter if people don't know about the quality - or aren't interested in it.
Based off my observation of SOTR's social metrics ( twitter, youtube, etc ) - the numbers it is getting in terms of trailer views, engagement numbers are just weak. Not horrendous compared to say, Dragon Quest, Yakuza or Gravity Rush, but the numbers are poor. SE's marketing of the game has failed to get people excited for the finale of the trilogy.
We can speculate and discuss the reasons for that failure all we like - but the end result is clear, there has been a decline in brand excitement and attachment for the Reboot TR IP. And when brands decline in their ability to generate excitement from a quantitative metric, 9 out of 10 times, there is an impact in sales.
I don't think the speculation or question is why it sold less than Spider-Man, but why it dropped off so much compared to the original titles in the reboot, and why it sold only 25% more than Rise of the Tomb Raiders opening despite Rise being an Xbox One exclusive initially, whilst Shadow is multiplatform. There was a 50% drop in sales on the Xbox One alone comparing Shadow to Rise.
I don't think people are suggesting timed exclusivity is the only factor, but possibly one of them, the other predominant one being simple franchise fatigue, coupled with a lack of marketing.
I'm also not sure the logic in your post makes complete sense given that the game also shows a huge drop in Xbox One platform sales comparative to the last game, and Spider-Man is a PS4 exclusive, hence doesn't really impact Xbox One owners in nearly as much of an appreciable way. Ultimately Xbox One sales accounted for 37% of the split, which is roughly in line with the install base split. Were Spider-Man the key diminishing factor, the PS4 sales split would have likely been lower given Spider-Man is after all a PS4 exclusive.
