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Who is the most manly man in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

  • Snake

    Votes: 176 20.4%
  • Simon Belmont

    Votes: 176 20.4%
  • Captain Falcon

    Votes: 328 38.0%
  • Ryu

    Votes: 69 8.0%
  • Ike

    Votes: 114 13.2%

  • Total voters
    863
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
Don't start that kind of semantics argument. It doesn't matter what kind of ownership/co-ownership Disney has in the character and franchise. Square Enix develops/produces/publishes the Kingdom Hearts series. Sora would definitely qualify as a "Square Rep" in the context of anything that would matter.
Again, negotiations would have to go through Disney, not Square. Any relationship with Square would be Sakurai being nice with the developers, not because they were necessary.

EDIT: Besides, semantics are kind of important when you are making a business transaction between two multinationals.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
It doesn't matter. It's semanrics. Geez. Square makes the call. We've been through this.
I swear that some people here completely ignore logic and common sense and argue semantics in an attempt to "win" some imaginary argument instead of just seeing why people speculate certain things and why it makes sense.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I swear that some people here completely ignore logic and common sense and argue semantics in an attempt to "win" some imaginary argument instead of just seeing why people speculate certain things and why it makes sense.
I don't even think Sora is totally unlikely, I just think people need to be straight with what they say.

Besides, who is to say we can't get one Square Enix rep and one Disney rep?
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Again, negotiations would have to go through Disney, not Square. Any relationship with Square would be Sakurai being nice with the developers, not because they were necessary.

EDIT: Besides, semantics are kind of important when you are making a business transaction between two multinationals.
I am going to hazard a guess that you have 0 idea what kind of negotiations Sakurai and Nintendo enter into with various third party companies. Maybe they would have to talk to Disney to use Sora. But it doesn't matter. Sora would still count as a "Square Rep" as he is from Square developed and published games. If someone saw Sora in Smash and told some leaker that Sora is in Smash, the obvious thing people would say is that he is a "Square rep". He is 100% qualified to be considered a Square Rep.

It is completely pointless to try to argue otherwise.
 

Yavga

Banned
Dec 20, 2017
501
Again, negotiations would have to go through Disney, not Square. Any relationship with Square would be Sakurai being nice with the developers, not because they were necessary.

EDIT: Besides, semantics are kind of important when you are making a business transaction between two multinationals.

If we could sticky some posts that would certainly help to prevent a lot of unneccesary discussion points that everyone did their best for to find out. I'd imagine the licensing would be a beast on this one.
 

Crayolan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,770
Again, negotiations would have to go through Disney, not Square. Any relationship with Square would be Sakurai being nice with the developers, not because they were necessary.

EDIT: Besides, semantics are kind of important when you are making a business transaction between two multinationals.

People are discussing a Square rep because Vergeben said so. Do you really think Vergeben knows the intricacies of Sora's ownership? Most people will see that Kingdom Hearts is a square game and call Sora a Square character. So when he, or any other leaker, says "Square rep" it's fair to assume Sora falls under that umbrella.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
People are discussing a Square rep because Vergeben said so. Do you really think Vergeben knows the intricacies of Sora's ownership? Most people will see that Kingdom Hearts is a square game and call Sora a Square character. So when he, or other leaker, says "Square rep" it's fair to assume Sora falls under that umbrella.
Exactly. Thank You.
 

ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,429
I swear that some people here completely ignore logic and common sense and argue semantics in an attempt to "win" some imaginary argument instead of just seeing why people speculate certain things and why it makes sense.

People are discussing a Square rep because Vergeben said so. Do you really think Vergeben knows the intricacies of Sora's ownership? Most people will see that Kingdom Hearts is a square game and call Sora a Square character. So when he, or any other leaker, says "Square rep" it's fair to assume Sora falls under that umbrella.

Yep.

One of the issues with gaming forums is that gamers LOVE to be "technically" correct and are happy to start a debate surrounding pointless semantics rather than seeing the bigger picture
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I am going to hazard a guess that you have 0 idea what kind of negotiations Sakurai and Nintendo enter into with various third party companies.
I'll give you that.
Maybe they would have to talk to Disney to use Sora. But it doesn't matter. Sora would still count as a "Square Rep" as he is from Square developed and published games. If someone saw Sora in Smash and told some leaker that Sora is in Smash, the obvious thing people would say is that he is a "Square rep". He is 100% qualified to be considered a Square Rep.

It is completely pointless to try to argue otherwise.
So what you are saying is we have no idea what to expect unless we know what are Vergeben's source's opinions on the limbo status of Sora's ownership. Let's make a truce then and call him Schrodinger's Sora for the time being.




i don't even know why I'm getting mad about Sora tbh, his last good game was in the GBA
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
People don't go around calling Sora a "Disney rep" lol. When you think Sora you think Square. Anyone who wants to hint at Sora will say "Square rep".
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Yep.

One of the issues with gaming forums is that gamers LOVE to be "technically" correct and are happy to start a debate surrounding pointless semantics rather than seeing the bigger picture
Don't get me started on the guy from yesterday who tried to claim that since FF first came out in the 80s (nevermind that it didn't released outside of Japan until 1990) that Cloud in Smash was representing an "80s franchise", and that Street Fighter was likewise an "80s franchise" despite not becoming widely popular or iconic until SF2 in the 90s.

All because he was trying to argue that more modern third party characters couldn't possibly exist/Arthur from GnG was super likely or something.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
So here comes the five new stages challenging the box theory. I'd expect:
- Minecraft stage (as per Vergeben rumours)
- Forest Maze (Geno)
- Alola (Incineroar)
- that MH stage
- another Street Fighter stage ?

At least now it means that the likes of Isaac, Elma, or Sora have real chances again.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
I'll give you that.

So what you are saying is we have no idea what to expect unless we know what are Vergeben's source's opinions on the limbo status of Sora's ownership. Let's make a truce then and call him Schrodinger's Sora for the time being.




i don't even know why I'm getting mad about Sora tbh, his last good game was in the GBA
All I'm saying is that if you use common sense 99% of people on this planet would consider Sora a "Square Rep" and/or a "Square Character" due to the Kingdom Hearts games being entirely developed and published by Square-Enix. A very small percentage know or care that he is truly owned by Disney.

Disney is never going to make a KH game without Square. And chances are high that both parties would be involved in negotiating on getting him into the game, were it to ever happen. But in no world is almost anyone ever going to consider him a "Disney rep" over a "Square rep".

Therefore, he is completely viable as one of the potential choices for a "Square Rep" as rumored by multiple people.
 

Deleted member 46641

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 12, 2018
3,494
I hate to say it

But this thread is most entertaining when it's been ages since a direct and everyone's thirsty and intense yet self aware.

This thread gets at its most catty when the direct has just happened and people act angsty about high stakes.
 

TeamLeftMatch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,683
Which Sora design do you want in smash? And why is it KH2. Also if Sora does get into smash I actually would love his froms to alt costumes and even give them unique Keyblades for each colour alt.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,671
Don't get me started on the guy from yesterday who tried to claim that since FF first came out in the 80s (nevermind that it didn't released outside of Japan until 1990) that Cloud in Smash was representing an "80s franchise", and that Street Fighter was likewise an "80s franchise" despite not becoming widely popular or iconic until SF2 in the 90s.

All because he was trying to argue that more modern third party characters couldn't possibly exist/Arthur from GnG was super likely or something.

That was me. And Cloud is a 90s character in an 80s franchise. And SF is an 80s franchise despite not becoming popular until the 90s.

And GnG has as much chances as anything of being Capcom's 3rd playable franchise.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
Which Sora design do you want in smash? And why is it KH2. Also if Sora does get into smash I actually would love his froms to alt costumes and even give them unique Keyblades for each colour alt.
The only good Sora is KH1 Sora. Rolling > flipping around the air like a lunatic

I expect him to have multiple costumes from all his games though. And it would be easier to get recolours because of his Drive forms.
 

ResetGreyWolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,429
Don't get me started on the guy from yesterday who tried to claim that since FF first came out in the 80s (nevermind that it didn't released outside of Japan until 1990) that Cloud in Smash was representing an "80s franchise", and that Street Fighter was likewise an "80s franchise" despite not becoming widely popular or iconic until SF2 in the 90s.

All because he was trying to argue that more modern third party characters couldn't possibly exist/Arthur from GnG was super likely or something.

Lol who cares if it's 80s or 90s anyway? Seems like a pointless thing to argue about
 

Deleted member 8791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,383
So here comes the five new stages challenging the box theory. I'd expect:
- Minecraft stage (as per Vergeben rumours)
- Forest Maze (Geno)
- Alola (Incineroar)
- that MH stage
- another Street Fighter stage ?

At least now it means that the likes of Isaac, Elma, or Sora have real chances again.
Well they never stopped having chances since box theory is... Just a theory based on a box.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,671
Lol who cares if it's 80s or 90s anyway? Seems like a pointless thing to argue about

The argument was about whether older 3rd party franchises have a leg up over more modern third party franchises in Smash representation. With the exception of Bayonetta, every third party franchise with a playable character in Smash is from the 80s-early 90s (Sonic being the one 90s franchise in Smash). Metal Gear, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, and Castlevania were all first created in the 1980s.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
It warms my heart to see so many people wanting a Dragon Quest rep and/or stage in this thread.

It's a shame it probably won't happen, but still.

Can't give up hope, man!

To add to the DQ for Smash speculation.

Here's Sakurai hanging out with Yuji Horii



It was for his column on the struggles of developing a game for two systems

https://gematsu.com/2016/08/dragon-...imultaneous-launch-ps4-3ds-versions-suggested

This is from 2016. Even if I'm not 100 convinced a DQ rep will make it for Smash, I would bet the farm that there was some off the record talk between Sakurai and Horii about a DQ rep in Smash.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I can't see us getting a second Street Fighter stage if Ken is indeed an Echo. Echoes/Clones have traditionally been made at the end of the development cycle, when everything else is already in place. A full blown stage for an Echo would be a lot of work.
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
I think 3 of the stages are a Minecraft stage, Alola stage and Dante stage. Geno would get a new stage. That Monster Hunter single player arena could be a stage.
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
Can't give up hope, man!

To add to the DQ for Smash speculation.

Here's Sakurai hanging out with Yuji Horii



It was for his column on the struggles of developing a game for two systems

https://gematsu.com/2016/08/dragon-...imultaneous-launch-ps4-3ds-versions-suggested

This is from 2016. Even if I'm not 100 convinced a DQ rep will make it for Smash, I would bet the farm that there was some off the record talk between Sakurai and Horii about a DQ rep in Smash.

DQ is a really glaring omission in a game about celebrating Japanese game IPs.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,577
they should change Link's icon since the Triforce doesn't appear in BotW at all

very inaccurate imo
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,671
I'd like to add that I am not against relatively newer third party franchises being in Smash and have advocated for Sora and Crash Bandicoot (and Ryu Hayabusa, who is from an older franchise, lol).

But I think recognizing that older franchises may have a leg up may not be a bad thing.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,396
Australia
That was me. And Cloud is a 90s character in an 80s franchise. And SF is an 80s franchise despite not becoming popular until the 90s.

And GnG has as much chances as anything of being Capcom's 3rd playable franchise.
Final Fantasy and Street Fighter remained relevant.
GnG did not, in the slightest, and will never have a playable character in Smash.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
I'd like to add that I am not against relatively newer third party franchises being in Smash and have advocated for Sora and Crash Bandicoot (and Ryu Hayabusa, who is from an older franchise, lol).

But I think recognizing that older franchises may have a leg up may not be a bad thing.
The core of my argument, and all I'm going to say about it again before I go to bed, is that GnG absolutely is not more likely (or even as likely) to make it into the game as another Capcom franchise over Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, and Monster Hunter. And it being an older franchise with history on Nintendo platforms does not give it priority over those.

Final Fantasy and Street Fighter remained relevant.
GnG did not, in the slightest, and will never have a playable character in Smash.
Basically. Yeah. GnG is sub-Castlevania in popularity and iconography, and even that is certainly the least popular of the currently represented third party franchises (Bayonetta excepted)
 

Mark1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,006
The stage count makes a lot more sense than the box theory.

Hopefully this will help reassure folk not to take it seriously and keep speculating.

Just one more newcomer didn't make sense.
 

Zoantharia

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,860
they should change Link's icon since the Triforce doesn't appear in BotW at all

very inaccurate imo

It does tho


On that note, I will concede that, upon reflection, Lin did have monado hairclips lol

latest
 

TMaakkonen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,747
So, if we do 5 stages, maybe we will get some new stages from current franchises? Someone did point out, that Mario, LoZ, Pokemon & Kirby are the only stages to always get a new stage in new game. Both Pokemon & Kirby would fit for newcomer reveal, but Kirby newcomer seems more unlikely at this point. Other than that, it seems to include new franchises or retro stages.

Besides Pokemon and maaaaybe Kirby, are there even other big Nintendo games that could use a stage? Tropical Freeze is not quite on the level of Odyssey or Breath of the Wild. Color Splash or Star Fox Zero? Could Arms stage make a debut before fighter? Hard to say.
 

ze_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,963
So, if we do 5 stages, maybe we will get some new stages from current franchises? Someone did point out, that Mario, LoZ, Pokemon & Kirby are the only stages to always get a new stage in new game. Both Pokemon & Kirby would fit for newcomer reveal, but Kirby newcomer seems more unlikely at this point. Other than that, it seems to include new franchises or retro stages.

Besides Pokemon and maaaaybe Kirby, are there even other big Nintendo games that could use a stage? Tropical Freeze is not quite on the level of Odyssey or Breath of the Wild. Color Splash or Star Fox Zero? Could Arms stage make a debut before fighter? Hard to say.
You could really do two more stages from Odyssey and Breath of the Wild each if they wanted to.

However, I don't see why they would withhold any stage that is not attached to an unrevealed newcomer. They gave us a stage count. The point was to wow us with the sheer number of stages. It sounds like, internally, they just really wanted to breach 100 stages.
 

TMaakkonen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,747
You could really do two more stages from Odyssey and Breath of the Wild each if they wanted to.

However, I don't see why they would withhold any stage that is not attached to an unrevealed newcomer. They gave us a stage count. The point was to wow us with the sheer number of stages. It sounds like, internally, they just really wanted to breach 100 stages.
Easy answer is stages related to newcomers or franchises not revealed yet. Like imagine if August Direct announced Rhythm Heaven, new Xenoblade, new Pokemon & Mario RPG stage. That'd be crazy.
 

ze_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,963
Easy answer is stages related to newcomers or franchises not revealed yet. Like imagine if August Direct announced Rhythm Heaven, new Xenoblade, new Pokemon & Mario RPG stage. That'd be crazy.
Well, exactly! And so I think if there are five stages yet to be revealed, each one is associated with a newcomer. Just the business from here on out.

Edit: Other than, like, a Minecraft stage or whatever. That would be an understandable exception.
 

Yavga

Banned
Dec 20, 2017
501
All I'm saying is that if you use common sense 99% of people on this planet would consider Sora a "Square Rep" and/or a "Square Character" due to the Kingdom Hearts games being entirely developed and published by Square-Enix. A very small percentage know or care that he is truly owned by Disney.

Disney is never going to make a KH game without Square. And chances are high that both parties would be involved in negotiating on getting him into the game, were it to ever happen. But in no world is almost anyone ever going to consider him a "Disney rep" over a "Square rep".

Therefore, he is completely viable as one of the potential choices for a "Square Rep" as rumored by multiple people.

Why would Nintendo pay gigantic licensing fees to get a character in that isn't even THAT popular if he could get better marketing from adding 2 different characters for half the price?

It's basically the same for that Wreck it Ralph movie, why did it have a bowser cameo but no Mario cameo? (All boils down to licensing)
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,671
The core of my argument, and all I'm going to say about it again before I go to bed, is that GnG absolutely is not more likely (or even as likely) to make it into the game as another Capcom franchise over Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, and Monster Hunter. And it being an older franchise with history on Nintendo platforms does not give it priority over those.

I think if it were all about sales Resident Evil would have been in long ago. Instead Sakurai went for Mega Man and Street Fighter, which are smaller series than RE. I think there's something specific about RE that Sakurai doesn't think fits in Smash.

I think a playable Monster Hunter would have been announced alongside/before Rathalos. I have my doubts at their possible inclusion given the way Monster Hunter has been treated so far in this game. (Maybe DLC?)

That leaves DMC from your list. And I think DMC has problems of its own as well. It's not nearly as iconic as other series, and its ties to Nintendo are virtually non-existent. You could argue Cloud, but Final Fantasy is a much bigger franchise than DMC and has much stronger ties to Nintendo than DMC does. It just seems really weird to think of Dante as a likely candidate for inclusion. But you obviously feel differently.

So, yeah. I'm not saying we're gonna get a third playable Capcom franchise or anything like that. But if I had to guess at such a thing I wouldn't dismiss Sir Arthur so readily. (It's really more of a shrug and an "I could see that.")
 

memoryman3

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,146

I don't think this is a good argument.

Isabelle, whilst sharing only a few things with Villager (because of her series), is otherwise a completely unique fighter.

Her normals are all quite different and some of her specials are all new to Smash, something that no semi-clone can claim. Unlike the semi clones, she also doesn't share mischallenous animations with Villager.

She was not built like a clone would be built like.

Also, Isabelle doesn't share the same body shape as Villager.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,671
Why would Nintendo pay gigantic licensing fees to get a character in that isn't even THAT popular if he could get better marketing from adding 2 different characters for half the price?

It's basically the same for that Wreck it Ralph movie, why did it have a bowser cameo but no Mario cameo? (All boils down to licensing)

https://www.wired.com/2012/10/inter...-the-director-and-producer-of-wreck-it-ralph/

Those conversations resulted in a number of characters finding places to appear in the film, but they weren't able to find a place to put every character they wanted. "We couldn't find the perfect way to put Mario into the film in a way that felt totally organic, where it served the story well and also kind of served the character of Mario in the eyes of Nintendo," Moore said.
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,235
Ugh. I'm starting to think both Dante and Sora are the last newcomers after the Sun/Moon Pokemon. Dante because the arguably credible rumors about him won't stop, and Sora because he's a super popular request.

I won't change my prediction, though, since I like it better. But, yeah. I still think there will be Dragon Quest stuff in the game, though. Maybe a bunch of monsters can appear in the new mode. I feel like the monsters are the most iconic part of DQ.
 
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