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RudeBoy

Banned
May 8, 2018
254
User Banned (3 days): Consistent prior posting history of bias against PC gaming.
What exactly do you mean by this? What exactly did studios learn?

Let's call it the "DICE effect". Studios have learned a lot. For more than 10 years, 1st-party devs are teaching how to make high quality video games. Within the last 10 years and in 99% of the cases, 3rd-party productions were chasing 1st-party devs. And this is why PC as a platform has benefited greatly from console 1st-parties. Things could be much different though, but Valve likes to remain a lazy asshole company that just grabs your money.

Especially PC gamers often don't understand that more powerful hardware doesn't mean better graphics. There is a very delicate balance between tech and art: if you boost the tech side too much without boosting your assets, your game will look sterile. Hardware does not make graphics. Developers are making graphics and they don't care about your hardware at all.

Artists are the true stars of this industry. And deservedly so. If video games will ever get the chance to be regarded as "art" then it is because of these guys.
 
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Duderino

Member
Nov 2, 2017
305
I tend to see gamers way undervalue the talents of particular artists at studios and tend to overly focus on technology.
That's half of it. The other part is many want to fixate on the known, by the numbers, measurable quantities; not innovation or excellence in the execution when it doesn't serve some arbitrary numbers game.

I work in the industry too and imagine you would agree that there's is a whole lot more to hitting a high bar, both artistically and technically, than what these arguments typically devolve into.
 
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Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Let's call it the "DICE effect". Studios have learned a lot. For more than 10 years, 1st-party devs are teaching how to make high quality video games.
This is an incredibly simplistic argument. Game developers learn from each other constantly. There's not some special division between first and third party developers where first party developers are particularly skilled or influential in the industry.
Within the last 10 years and in 99% of the cases, 3rd-party productions were chasing 1st-party devs. And this why PC as a platform has benefited greatly from console 1st-parties. Things could be much different though, but Valve likes to remain a lazy asshole company that just grabs your money.
What are you basing this on? What first party developers are Ubisoft supposedly chasing with games like Far Cry 5? Or Ghost Recon: Wildlands? Or pretty much anything else they make? What first party developer is Infinity Ward chasing with Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare? What first party developer is Techland chasing with Dying Light 2? What first party developer is Crytek chasing with Hunt: Showdown? What first party developer is Id Software chasing with DOOM: Eternal? What first party developer is Arkane chasing with Prey and Dishonored? What first party developer is DICE chasing with Battlefield V's campaign? What first party developer was Eidos Montreal chasing when they made their Deus Ex games? What first party developer is 4A games chasing with Metro Exodus? What first party developer was Bethesda chasing with their Elder Scrolls and Fallout games?

I can list game after game from developers across the industry where I fail to see how they're "chasing" first party developers. Who is Rockstar supposedly chasing with Red Dead Redemption 2? I mean, Ubisoft maybe? After all, Ubisoft are the industry leader when it comes to open world game design. But still, Rockstar do their own thing. Always have.
Especially PC gamers often don't understand that more powerful hardware doesn't mean better graphics. There is a very delicate balance between tech and art: if you boost the tech side too much without boosting your assets, your game will look sterile. Hardware does not make graphics. Developers are making graphics and they don't care about your hardware at all.
What's a meaningful example of this?
 

RudeBoy

Banned
May 8, 2018
254
Doesn't matter. Every Valve game is a perfect example because Valve has never understood the importance of high quality art direction. They are 10 years behind when it comes to producing video games. And this is why they don't make HL3. It would only expose their incompetence.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Well I worked on God of War and that's not true at all, our workflow is not conducive to a variable platform and it would struggle on anything not perfectly equipped for how that engine works. Working on an exclusive title is much more of a additive process where you are constantly adding to a system until you hit its breaking point, then optimizing and pushing it even further, that's why often times some PS4 exclusive titles tend to look better than their earlier showings (sometimes...). Whereas multiplat you are very loosely defined to what your end goal spec will be (depending on the studio) so you are more adding everything and than paring it down to make it run. It's kind of a reductive workflow (for me at least).

Say if you built your art based on a tessellated geo workflow. If you are exclusive to a platform, you'll know pretty soon if that is going to work or not, whereas multiplat you may not know until very late and your settups maybe turn lesser than if you had worked around that limitation at the beginning.

But I don't want to speak too much further on the subject, I'm not a hardware tech specialist, just an artist. But from an artists view, its much more relaxing working on a set-spec platform.

This is really interesting thank you for sharing. I'd love for a tech guy to come in and share about God of war on the pro. Surely you could add more to the pro thsn what you could on the base ps4? Meaning games suffer on these higher end systems than they would if they were the baseline dev platform.

God of war is a beautiful game and my goty by a country mile this year. Red dead has firm competition.

I don't know if it's a resolution thing but my jaw hit the floor with shadow of the tomb raider. It's looks better than any exclusive I've seen. I need to watch acg review as I'm sure he must touch on it. Id love a tech guys input on what makes this third party game look better than any exclusive? Is it platform maturity? Third party devs have had more time with these consoles and they "catch" up to what a first party dev can do?
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
Doesn't matter. Every Valve game is a perfect example because Valve has never understood the importance of high quality art direction. They are 10 years behind when it comes to producing video games. And this is why they don't make HL3. It would only expose their incompetence.

You are joking right? Half life 2 changed the entire industry.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
Doesn't matter. Every Valve game is a perfect example because Valve has never understood the importance of high quality art direction. They are 10 years behind when it comes to producing video games. And this is why they don't make HL3. It would only expose their incompetence.
What the fuck?

This is (hilariously) the exact kind of fanboyism this thread was made to (rather poorly and inflammatorily) counteract. Gods, I don't even know what to say. Please just stay out of these threads if you're just going to shitpost like that.
 

RudeBoy

Banned
May 8, 2018
254
Valve is but a PC gamer's fantasy now. Sooner or later even the most die-hard fanboys will realize this. Valve is contributing absolutely nothing to this industry.

Valve is a parasite.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Doesn't matter. Every Valve game is a perfect example because Valve has never understood the importance of high quality art direction.
I'm sorry, but that is not true at all. I personally think Valve design FPS games with some of the most weightless and tacky feeling gunplay I've ever experienced, but as a company, Valve have always had top notch art direction. Half-Life 2 in particular, has an incredibly unified Eastern European city aesthetic courtesy of Viktor Antonov, who later worked on Dishonored and contributed to Wolfenstein: The New Order. This promotional screenshot from the game's release conveys an art design aesthetic that is cohesive and excellent. The way the game contrasts the crumbling city and the sleek, black Citadel and its slowly advancing, almost hungry walls is good art direction. The Episodes also have good art direction.
main-qimg-8f65d0cd134f02f392ae1fdf31edb6c5

The original Half-Life has really good art direction. The art direction is what helps sell Black Mesa as a real location despite it being way more restrictive than say GoldenEye which used the openness and architectural soundness of locations to sell them as real. And helps contrast it against the unfamiliar and alien Xen.
15E16FA73CC3362A5B4B09EDE74487AFDEDCD773

Portal's art direction is great. The way it contrasts the sleek, clean test chambers against the grimy hallways that lie behind the scenes. It's cohesive. Valve's games have cohesive art direction.
portal.jpg

Portal 2 takes the familiar and makes it overgrown. (Kinda like Crysis 3 did when it took Crysis 2's New York and had it overtaken by vegetation.)
portal2-screenshots-7.jpg

I've never really been a fan of Counter Strike, but speaking generally maybe your problem with Counter Strike is that it doesn't really aim for aesthetic consistency? It isn't really striving for a cohesive art style. It has some consistency, but it lacks the unified aesthetic of something like Team Fortress 2.
Team-Fortress-2-Review.jpeg
 

RudeBoy

Banned
May 8, 2018
254
These screenshots just prove my point.

This is a last-gen game by a Sony 1st-party dev:

the-last-of-us.jpg


And this is a current-gen game made by a Sony 1st-party dev:

The-Last-of-Us-2-170077.jpg


Valve isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to producing video games.

Valve is a parasite.
 
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Deleted member 2840

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,400
Valve is but a PC gamer's fantasy now. Sooner or later even the most die-hard fanboys will realize this. Valve is contributing absolutely nothing to this industry.

Valve is a parasite.
HAHAHA Jesus Christ. Of course it is the "PC gamers are all pirates, Denuvo is a good thing" dude saying ignorant stuff like that.
I mean, especially this year, seeing people still spouting shit like that is just hilarious you know. Because all that's "contributing to the industry" is CINEMATIX GAMEX AND GRAFIXX
 

RudeBoy

Banned
May 8, 2018
254
HAHAHA Jesus Christ. Of course it is the "PC gamers are all pirates, Denuvo is a good thing" dude saying ignorant stuff like that.
I mean, especially this year, seeing people still spouting shit like that is just hilarious you know. Because all that's "contributing to the industry" is CINEMATIX GAMEX AND GRAFIXX

I would be honored if you tried to disprove my claims instead of attacking me personally. ^_^
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
What world are we living in where Half Life 2 changes the entire industry?

When all was said and done the consensus at the time was that Half Life 2 was a relatively ho him disappointment with a good setting and cinematic feel. Aside from physics? Games had been out doing it for years by the time it came out.

Half Life 2 was a 2004 game, The original Halo had a FAR bigger impact on the industry at that was a 2001 game. It did so with just as if not more competent story telling, gameplay that sent ripples through the industry for years (finally achieving a good FPS formula on consoles, shooting the genre into superstar status, and paving the way for the entire Xbox brand and more importantly the impact that Xbox live would have with Halo 2). Half Life 2 by any reasonable metric was a linear experience with out dated design.

A game from 3 years earlier not only bested Half Life 2 in nearly every category but there are plenty of other games that also did so.

In what way if any did Half Life 2 Change the industry? By making people more weary of over hyped games? If anything the subsequent episodes only solidified the failure of 'episodic gaming' which served as a regression to the status quo.

Footnote: I never owned an Xbox or Halo and was a PS2/PC fan back in the day.
 
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Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
This is a last-gen game by a Sony 1st-party dev:
Half-Life 2 was released in 2004. The Episodes were released in 2006 and 2007 respectively. Now Crytek came along and obliterated everything else in the industry, including Valve's work, but that's hardly Valve's fault. HL2: Episode 2 was not the top dog in 2007, but it was a decent looking game. Its animation, texture work, and good art direction helped it overcome the fact it couldn't compete with Crytek's industry rattling magnum opus.
B9A9F52ED8572F92C2E3B2E0C058ED2604F0FD68

You're basically hung up on the fact Valve's last Half-Life game was released in 2007. That's when Team Fortress 2 was released, as well. Counter Strike has never, ever aimed to be particularly graphically ambitious. Its popularity has long been helped along by low system requirements. It's a gameplay first kinda game. But it's far from ugly and it has good art design. Even the original mod was artistically good.
 

RudeBoy

Banned
May 8, 2018
254
Now Crytek came along and obliterated everything else in the industry

Crytek didn't obliterate everything because they were better. Crytek did obliterate everything because Yerli was an idiot. Pretty much any AAA studio during that time could have done the same, but they did not because they are not dumb. Crytek realized that going in with full force is not doing it. That is why Crysis 1 has more advanced tech compared to Crysis 3. People didn't even notice this because Crysis 3 has the more advanced art.

Crytek is dead. All the capable Crytek guys are working at id Software Frankfurt (Bethesda).
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
I still can't get over the idea that Half Life 2 was anything but serviceably enjoyable. I enjoyed it, but in no way shape or form did it change the industry. It felt like a product completely saved by its legacy and presentation that was not atop its peers in any one category of real note.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
Crytek didn't obliterate everything because they were better. Crytek did obliterate everything because Yerli was an idiot. Pretty much any AAA studio during that time could have done the same, but they did not because they are not dumb. Crytek realized that going in with full force is not doing it. That is why Crysis 1 has more advanced tech compared to Crysis 3. People didn't even notice this.

Crytek is dead. All the capable Crytek guys are working at id Software Frankfurt (Bethesda).
Man, your fanboyism knows no bounds, huh?

For the record, Crysis 3 absolutely has numerous tech advancements over the original. Just because the gameplay and scope are not up to snuff doesn't mean you get to downplay its technical achievements blindly like that.

Literally everything they highlighted in their tech trailer is newly introduced in CryEngine 3:
 

Deleted member 26104

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,362
These screenshots just prove my point.

This is a last-gen game by a Sony 1st-party dev:

the-last-of-us.jpg


And this is a current-gen game made by a Sony 1st-party dev:

The-Last-of-Us-2-170077.jpg


Valve isn't even in the same ballpark when it comes to producing video games.

Valve is a parasite.
Weren't people asking for an example of a Sony fanboy coming in to a topic and stinking it up with crap? You guys are seeing this, aren't you?
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
half life 2 was top notch for its time. episode 1 and 2 were dated for their time

It's arguable but acceptable to say that it was top notch (certainly not in its stiff animations that were being topped on the PS2 at the time), but industry changing, let alone changing the entire industry, is dubious at best.

Weren't people asking for an example of a Sony fanboy coming in to a topic and stinking it up with crap? You guys are seeing this, aren't you?
We're 15 pages in to a troll op from a joke account that has spent his time here trolling 'Sony fans' and people (on the tangential topic of console versus PC) start posting comparative screenshots gets accused of 'drinking up threads with (Sony) crap'.

Please proceed governor.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
What world are we like bing in where Half Life 2 changes the entire industry? When all was said and done the consensus of it was that of a relatively ho him disappointment with a good setting. Aside from physics? Games had been out doing it for years by the time it came out.
Firstly, the whole "changed everything" bit is nonsense. There are too many videogame subgenres for a single game to "change everything".

Secondly, I'm not hugely fond of HL2, but bolded is ludicrous nonsense. Disappointment? WHAT? Half-Life was easily the hottest game of 2004. It was massively hyped leading up to its release, and blew people away. The first 15 minutes of Half-Life 2 left people speechless. The atmosphere was like nothing people had played before. It was an FPS game where you didn't get a gun for 30 minutes or so. An immersive, seamless experience from start to finish featuring an incredibly memorable cast. Even minor NPCs glimpsed for moments burned themselves into player's minds. Entering Ravenholm was an experience that left an enduring impression. The gravity gun weaponized physics in a way people had never seen before. Half-Life 3 is probably the industry's most anticipated game of all time. If Valve revealed its existence there would be meltdown of the likes we've never seen before.
Half Life 2 was a 2004 game, The original Halo had a FAR bigger impact on the industry at that was a 2001 game. It did so with just as if not more competent story telling, gameplay that sent ripples through the industry for years (finally achieving a good FPS formula on consoles, shooting the genre into superstar status
The FPS genre didn't need Halo to shoot it to superstar status. GoldenEye sold 8 million copies. Also, Halo's "formula" wasn't particularly relevant to PC, was it? Does Crysis really play anything like Halo? Does STALKER? Does Bioshock? That's an entirely different discussion, though.
A game from 3 years earlier not only bested Half Life 2 in nearly every category but there are plenty of other games that also did so.
Halo and Half-Life are very different kinds of games. Did Halo actually "best" the original Half-Life? They're so different. It's like saying Uncharted bested Hitman.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
It's arguable but acceptable to say that it was top notch (certainly not in its stuff animations that were being topped on the PS2 at the time), but industry changing, let alone changing the entire industry, is dubious at best.
If you mean gameplay animations, sure, but they were absolutely top-tier for recorded character animation at the time - especially in the realm of facial animation, where they remained quite literally untouched for several years running (arguably up until Crysis 1 dethroned it).
 

Tart Toter 9K

Member
Oct 25, 2017
397
Doesn't matter. Every Valve game is a perfect example because Valve has never understood the importance of high quality art direction. They are 10 years behind when it comes to producing video games. And this is why they don't make HL3. It would only expose their incompetence.
Valve's upcoming game "In the Valley of Gods" has a very strong art direction.
2Uz8Uuk.jpg
 
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Deleted member 40872

user requested account closure
Banned
Mar 10, 2018
36
UK
Crytek didn't obliterate everything because they were better. Crytek did obliterate everything because Yerli was an idiot. Pretty much any AAA studio during that time could have done the same, but they did not because they are not dumb. Crytek realized that going in with full force is not doing it. That is why Crysis 1 has more advanced tech compared to Crysis 3. People didn't even notice this because Crysis 3 has the more advanced art.

Crytek is dead. All the capable Crytek guys are working at id Software Frankfurt (Bethesda).
If we are only looking at visuals both HL2 and Crysis were industry defining games when they came out just like Last Of Us was...
Yes art direction has been on point in Sony first party games for a while now but that does not dismiss that there were amazing looking games even before that or that there are games that run more impressive tech.
 
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Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
That is why Crysis 1 has more advanced tech compared to Crysis 3. People didn't even notice this because Crysis 3 has the more advanced art.
This simply isn't true. Crysis 2 was a graphical leap over Crysis 1. Crysis 3 was a graphical leap over 1/2 that pushed things further. It's a simply stunning look game. And in turn, Homefront: The Revolution built upon the foundation of Crysis 2 and Crysis 3 to push things even further. Yes, it was developed by Crytek UK but it was a Crytek game. If Crytek hadn't run out of money they would have eventually published it.
Crytek is dead. All the capable Crytek guys are working at id Software Frankfurt (Bethesda).
While Crytek endured a lot of talent bleed and may never return to former glory, Hunt: Showdown is ample demonstration that the company has still "got it". It remains to be seen how well Star Citizen turns out, but it's interesting to note CIG are essentially attempting to execute the procedural generation techniques Crytek toyed with during the development of Crysis 2. If Squadron 42 doesn't suck, or even if it does suck but executes either technical or mechanical ideas really, really well -- the industry will sit up and notice and ask, "Can we do that?" After No Man's Sky came out, Bioware wanted to follow in its footsteps -- they wanted Andromeda to be a game set in a vast universe you could freely explore in your ship. But unfortunately they ran into issues with the planet generation system and such. I imagine there's a lot of people who don't think No Man's Sky is technically impressive. But it is. It really is. Particularly nowdays.

Also, on the topic of Crytek, they did great work in VR with Robinson: The Journey. Their voxel-based global illumination system is really quite good. Crytek were always ahead of the curve and perhaps they're a demonstration of how business reality butts up against technical ambition.
You are mixing up efficiency and effectiveness. Cry3 was more efficient (because they switched to industry-proved tech) and that is what the trailer is about.
They pioneered much of that "industry proven tech". Crysis 3 built upon the foundation of Crysis 2, and its tech. There are some good presentations on their work in Crysis 2. http://www.klayge.org/material/4_1/SSR/S2011_SecretsCryENGINE3Tech_0.pdf Crytek had some of the best engineers working in the industry. And some of the best game designers. They still have some of the best game designers and engineers -- just look at Hunt: Showdown.

And as I mentioned earlier, Homefront: The Revolution built upon Crysis 3. It introduced a very interesting prebaked large scale ambient occlusion system that works with dynamic weather and ToD systems. It's the underlying reason why the game's HDR implementation on consoles is so applauded.
1.jpg

http://www.dsdambuster.com/blog/lsao-part-1

People in the industry constantly look at what their peers are doing. Designers want their games to be as good as possible whether that's audio, visuals, UI design, controls, general mechanics. That's why the industry has presentations at GDC where they tell their peers how they accomplished the things they did. Naughty Dog's engineers are respected because they're great engineers. Infinity Ward's engineers are also respected because they're great engineers. Did you know Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare has 40ms of input latency? Doom 2016 has 80ms, and that game is a technical triumph that builds upon the foundations of Crytek's work. You know why? Because Tiago Sousa departed Crytek and joined id Software in 2015. He and other engineers have done amazing work that has featured in DOOM 2016, Wolfenstein II, The Evil Within 2, and the upcoming DOOM: Eternal. Modern id Tech takes a number of core rendering concepts from CryEngine. He also co-created SMAA anti-aliasing, I believe.
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,276
Midgar, With Love
Reading this thread has been both fascinating and disorienting. Lots of good stuff in some of these posts; some of it goes way over my head but it's all interesting. Thanks for making it, OP.

On the other hand, a couple of the posters in here... yikes. Glad that looks like it's mostly been resolved.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
There is one underlying fact in this thread, after reading the last few pages. It is actually only Sony fans that are pushing this narrative that exclusive games gave better tech than third party. I've not seen really any mention on Nintendo or Microsoft exclusive games.

It looks like the conclusion is only Sony has great art direction that excels them, which i don't think holds any water.

Do Sony games have a higher resolution? No
Do Sony games have better tech? Let's discuss.
Do Sony games have better textures? I don't think so.
Do Sony exclusive games use more polygons? I don't think so.

The argument seems to be only art direction matters? Or what excels sonys games?

Well if we disregard technology I would say breath of the wild has a more beautiful art direction than any of those Sony exclusive games. A world built from top to bottom by it's artists and not one based on real life or lifted from historical influence.

What do people think?
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Supermassive's The Dark Pictures looks pretty outstanding. They're building upon the work they did in games like Until Dawn and The Inpatient. One of the things about Until Dawn was that it was extremely pretty but it had some serious framerate issues, which this won't, at least on PC.
thedarkpicturesirdxi.png


Well if we disregard technology I would say breath of the wild has a more beautiful art direction than any of those Sony exclusive games. A world built from top to bottom by it's artists and not one based on real life or lifted from historical influence.
For what it's worth, we had a thread that made the case that Breath of the Wild is really quite a technologically sophisticated game. It's just not as widely recognized as such due to its art style. It does all sorts of really interesting stuff like lighting in particular. If you ever needed a demonstration that Nintendo have industry-leading engineers working for them, I think BotW is it.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/zelda-breath-of-the-wild-the-technical-analysis.8197/

On another note, I'm curious about the inevitable surprise games we'll see at The Games Awards, which will likely be the first wave of "Running on PS4/XBO/PC but blatantly designed with PC/next consoles in mind" kinda like a lot of the games you saw in 2012/2013.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,128
There is one underlying fact in this thread, after reading the last few pages. It is actually only Sony fans that are pushing this narrative that exclusive games gave better tech than third party. I've not seen really any mention on Nintendo or Microsoft exclusive games.

It looks like the conclusion is only Sony has great art direction that excels them, which i don't think holds any water.

Do Sony games have a higher resolution? No
Do Sony games have better tech? Let's discuss.
Do Sony games have better textures? I don't think so.
Do Sony exclusive games use more polygons? I don't think so.

The argument seems to be only art direction matters? Or what excels sonys games?

Well if we disregard technology I would say breath of the wild has a more beautiful art direction than any of those Sony exclusive games. A world built from top to bottom by it's artists and not one based on real life or lifted from historical influence.

What do people think?

This is far from the truth and most Sony fans don't say that .
Maybe in the older gens but i have not seen that this gen .
Also once again thinking a game looks better don't mean thinking it has better tech .

Why do most tech threads end up consoles vs PC make no sense .
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
This is far from the truth and most Sony fans don't say that .
Maybe in the older gens but i have not seen that this gen .
Also once again thinking a game looks better don't mean thinking it has better tech .

Why do most tech threads end up consoles vs PC make no sense .

I'm just seeing a narrative here that seems to imply that Sony games are the only exclusive games that are the best looking etc. Which we all know is false. It's just what it looks like.

Might be a case of a few bad apples ruining the cider.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
There is one underlying fact in this thread, after reading the last few pages. It is actually only Sony fans that are pushing this narrative that exclusive games gave better tech than third party. I've not seen really any mention on Nintendo or Microsoft exclusive games.

It looks like the conclusion is only Sony has great art direction that excels them, which i don't think holds any water.

Do Sony games have a higher resolution? No
Do Sony games have better tech? Let's discuss.
Do Sony games have better textures? I don't think so.
Do Sony exclusive games use more polygons? I don't think so.

The argument seems to be only art direction matters? Or what excels sonys games?

Well if we disregard technology I would say breath of the wild has a more beautiful art direction than any of those Sony exclusive games. A world built from top to bottom by it's artists and not one based on real life or lifted from historical influence.

What do people think?

If it's only Sony fans pushing this narrative, why did Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn both sweep near enough all graphics and tech related awards in their subsequent years, despite titans like Battlefront 2, Battlefield 1, Assassin's Creed Origins etc all also releasing in these years? Do you think all these prominent devs (from all platforms including competitor and multiplatform studios), journalists, experts etc are part of some grander conspiracy, or do you think that perhaps maybe, just maybe, these games really were ahead of the curve in the years they released?

Whilst it's true that all platforms have great looking games with great looking tech, it's silly to not recognise that on each platform there usually are certain studios or games that push things farther than others, and as such they're recognised for said achievements.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
If it's only Sony fans pushing this narrative, why did Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn both sweep near enough all graphics and tech related awards in their subsequent years, despite titans like Battlefront 2, Battlefield 1, Assassin's Creed Origins etc all also releasing in these years? Do you think all these prominent devs (from all platforms including competitor and multiplatform studios), journalists, experts etc are part of some grander conspiracy, or do you think that perhaps maybe, just maybe, these games really were ahead of the curve in the years they released?
I think you should re-read what he wrote.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
If it's only Sony fans pushing this narrative, why did Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn both sweep near enough all graphics and tech related awards in their subsequent years, despite titans like Battlefront 2, Battlefield 1, Assassin's Creed Origins etc all also releasing in these years? Do you think all these prominent multi platform devs, journalists, experts etc are part of some grander conspiracy, or do you think that perhaps maybe, just maybe, these games really were ahead of the curve in the years they released?

I think journalists really don't have a clue about tech so I wouldn't really want to comment. I do think exclusives get treated and put on a pedestal more than any other third party game.

Those games are beautiful games but it's pretty obvious they could be done on any platform and that imo they would not be hyped as much.

I've hardly seen any reviews mention how absolutely insane shadow of the tomb raider looks. If it was a Sony exclusive gane i have no doubt it would be different. That smoke effect is insaaane.

What do you think to red dead 2s tech and do you feel it would be hyped more if it was an exclusive game?

I do hope the tomb raider devs get some praise this year for their work on shadow. I'm seeing very little mention of how incredible the game looks, from the media. It's very strange.
 
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Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
I think journalists really don't have a clue about tech so I wouldn't really want to comment. I do think exclusives get treated and put on a pedestal more than any other third party game.

Those games are beautiful games but it's pretty obvious they could be done on any platform and that imo they would not be hyped as much.

I've hardly seen any reviews mention how absolutely insane shadow of the tomb raider looks. If it was a Sony exclusive gane i have no doubt it would be different. That smoke effect is insaaane.

What do you think to red dead 2s tech and do you feel it would be hyped more if it was an exclusive game?
You're again coming up with more conspiracy theories, surely it isn't Sony's big teams being very talented and get enough time to push impressive visuals.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,128
I think journalists really don't have a clue about tech so I wouldn't really want to comment. I do think exclusives get treated and put on a pedestal more than any other third party game.

Those games are beautiful games but it's pretty obvious they could be done on any platform and that imo they would not be hyped as much.

I've hardly seen any reviews mention how absolutely insane shadow of the tomb raider looks. If it was a Sony exclusive gane i have no doubt it would be different. That smoke effect is insaaane.

Don't think he is talking about journalists .
Also if you want to go that road all exclusives get hype has been that way since the start of consoles lol.
Plus RDR2 coming out soon to say exclusives get put on pedestal or get hype more you would have to be blind .
Cyberpunk is another eg of this .
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
You're again coming up with more conspiracy theories, surely it isn't Sony's big teams being very talented and get enough time to push impressive visuals.

Have I said that the games aren't impressive and there isn't talented people there? That's not the point at all. The point is that this thread seems to imply that there is a portion of this forum that believes that these exclusive studios have some form of something else that other multi plat studios don't. When there is clearly evidence of multiplatform games looking better than exclusive games.

This is going to turn sour. I'm out.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
Have I said that the games aren't impressive and there isn't talented people there? That's not the point at all. The point is that this thread seems to imply that there is a portion of this forum that believes that these exclusive studios have some form of something else that other multi plat studios don't. When there is clearly evidence of multiplatform games looking better than exclusive games.

This is going to turn sour. I'm out.
No, you said those games are being called impressive because they are Sony exclusives which is bullshit, what is the clear evidence that multiplats look better exactly? When people say "X game looks the best" they don't even talk technically, a game can still look better than another despite being technically inferior, and it isn't just people on here, that's the notion outside too, Sony games are one of the most impressive visually.
 

Seahawk64

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,463
I think journalists really don't have a clue about tech so I wouldn't really want to comment. I do think exclusives get treated and put on a pedestal more than any other third party game.

Those games are beautiful games but it's pretty obvious they could be done on any platform and that imo they would not be hyped as much.

I've hardly seen any reviews mention how absolutely insane shadow of the tomb raider looks. If it was a Sony exclusive gane i have no doubt it would be different. That smoke effect is insaaane.

What do you think to red dead 2s tech and do you feel it would be hyped more if it was an exclusive game?

Pretty much agree with everything you have said on this page.

Been saying this for a long time, 3rd party games get ignored here and they did on gaf as well just because they're not exclusives. If a 3rd party game gets mentioned for anything in "best of" graphics thread, its quickly brought down by Sony fans because they're just not up to the standards set by Sony studios for whatever reasons.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I think you should re-read what he wrote.

Oh no I've read his post and got his basic point, but right now I would argue that yes, in terms of console exclusives, it is Sony exclusives that are leading the way in tech and visuals, and this is only further highlighted by recent tech and graphics related awards winners, most of whom tend to be multiplatform games if not Sony exclusives. I personally can't even remember the last time an Xbox or Nintendo exclusive won any such prestigious graphics or tech awards, though that's not to say there haven't been some incredible looking titles from said platforms that are still up there. For example, I believe Halo 4 would have won the Game Developers Choice award and NAVGTR award for Best Technology were it not for Far Cry 3.

I think journalists really don't have a clue about tech so I wouldn't really want to comment. I do think exclusives get treated and put on a pedestal more than any other third party game.

Those games are beautiful games but it's pretty obvious they could be done on any platform and that imo they would not be hyped as much.

I've hardly seen any reviews mention how absolutely insane shadow of the tomb raider looks. If it was a Sony exclusive gane i have no doubt it would be different. That smoke effect is insaaane.

What do you think to red dead 2s tech and do you feel it would be hyped more if it was an exclusive game?

I do hope the tomb raider devs get some praise this year for their work on shadow. I'm seeing very little mention of how incredible the game looks, from the media. It's very strange.

Right, so you too are going the route of conspiracy theories and baseless downplaying. Presumably you realise that it's not just journalists voting at these different awards shows, but actual developers and tech experts too, including guys who actually specialise in video game graphics technologies and work on some of the most accomplished engines and tech in the world.

With respect to Tomb Raider, I haven't played it yet. I was going to wait for it to go on sale before I bought it, and whilst it looks very impressive, nothing I've seen from it really looks head and shoulders above the competition, and honestly that's been the general consensus Internet wide really. It's possible that the art direction or particular environments etc just appeal to your particular tastes to a greater extent than most, hence you're so much more enamoured with it than others, but again, without having played it, I simply couldn't definitively say.

Regarding Red Dead 2, I've no doubt its going to be at the very top of the list in terms of contenders for best tech and graphics this year. Rockstar are often at the very forefront with that sort of stuff, but truth be told this year will likely be one of the tightest ever. I'd imagine the winners will be somewhat of a mixed bag, instead of there being one unanimous pick across all the shows and awards that wins all the tech/graphics related awards, like in past years.
 
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gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,128
Have I said that the games aren't impressive and there isn't talented people there? That's not the point at all. The point is that this thread seems to imply that there is a portion of this forum that believes that these exclusive studios have some form of something else that other multi plat studios don't. When there is clearly evidence of multiplatform games looking better than exclusive games.

This is going to turn sour. I'm out.

Many other places have people saying Sony games look the best but that beside the point .
Best looking to begin with is subjective and most people that say that don't know anything about tech or it don't matter to them .