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LoboRundas said:

I don't know about the NDA talk this time, I still remember when Mercury Steam's head was asked if they were developing a new Metroid with Nintendo, and he outright said they were stupid people, and that was a total lie. Flashforward to after the anouncement of the game, and he was asked about that and he laughed about it. I'm guessing you can negate stuff, even if it's a lie, if it keeps people off you.

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Or hell, remember that time David Jaffe insisted Twisted Metal on PS3 was never going to happen and then next E3 he announces he's back doing Twisted Metal?

Saying that you can't say "no it's not happening" if something is under NDA is flimsy. There's been many times where that's not been the case. Especially for a guy like Matt who's commonly been poked fun at in the DMC community for his slip ups, it benefits him to say "no" in a controlled environment like Twitter. Especially to get the heat off. If the Dante rumor gained traction and people managed to draw it back to him, a lot of Capcom executives would likely give him the evil eye. And hey wouldn't you know it, saying "no" actually got people to stop talking about it.

That's why even if Dante isn't in, no one should take the comment Matt made as evidence. It was clearly a comment made to get the heat off rather than confirming anything about Smash.

Kirbivore said:

In mind of symmetry, having Ken, PokeRep, and SE rep would being it to 71. Unless they scrunch the final row, the last character would be on their own, which would look bizarre given that 71 is a prime number.

Something has to drop

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And that something is this ridiculous box art theory

TDLink said:

DMC4SE coming to Switch was also part of the original Dante leak.

Either way, as a newcomer he makes a lot of sense. He's a popular third party character, iconic, would be cool to be able to have Bayonetta and Dante in the same game for the first time and able to fight each other, and makes sense for the third party from a synergy point of view with a new game coming out shortly.

It all adds up pretty well. And most importantly he has fantastic moveset potential and could be really fun.

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I dunno. Capcom actually does have characters who would make more sense to me as a third newcomer. Sir Arthur (Sakurai seems to have a preference for third party 1980s video game franchises and he doesn't care if they are dormant or not), Phoenix Wright (just for the sheer absurdity), Monster Hunter, or Chris Redfield/Jill Valentine make more sense to me than Dante.

(Not that I hate DMC or anything. It just seems really weird to me.)

KtotheRoc said:

I dunno. Capcom actually does have characters who would make more sense to me as a third newcomer. Sir Arthur (Sakurai seems to have a preference for third party 1980s video game franchises and he doesn't care if they are dormant or not), Phoenix Wright (just for the sheer absurdity), Monster Hunter, or Chris Redfield/Jill Valentine make more sense to me than Dante.

(Not that I hate DMC or anything. It just seems really weird to me.)

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Sakurai has to do it. For the memes

Random is a character. So 71 + random = nice symmetrical 72

I walked for the first time in a week today.

KtotheRoc said:

I dunno. Capcom actually does have characters who would make more sense to me as a third newcomer. Sir Arthur (Sakurai seems to have a preference for third party 1980s video game franchises and he doesn't care if they are dormant or not), Phoenix Wright (just for the sheer absurdity), Monster Hunter, or Chris Redfield/Jill Valentine make more sense to me than Dante.

(Not that I hate DMC or anything. It just seems really weird to me.)

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Sir Arthur is not even close to as iconic as the rest you listed. He would never get in before all of them. Phoenix is well known and has a connection to Nintendo, but is also way more minor than the rest.

I agree that Monster Hunter and Resident Evil are both big and iconic enough to get representatives. But so is Devil May Cry.

Unfortunately Capcom won't just get 6 reps. Otherwise we could get all of them. Which would be justifiable since Capcom has the best stable of iconic IPs after Nintendo.

Masozi said:

Random is a character. So 71 + random = nice symmetrical 72

I walked for the first time in a week today.

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Congrats dude!

Let belief in the music rule set you free

Masozi said:

I walked for the first time in a week today.

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Good to see that you're recovering.

I'm not sure how being under an NDA would block people from saying "No, of course not" when it's the truth. If any answer to the question "Is Dante in Smash?" was liable to violate an NDA regardless of whether he's in or not, it's easy to ignore. Especially on Twitter.

The argument that "No" actually means "Yes" or that any acknowledgment of the question is an implicit affirmation regardless of the answer given is reaching to lengths that would torture Stretch Armstrong.

Regulus Tera said:

So I was watching this video about TOP 10 MOST POWERFUL SMASH CHARACTERS CANONICALLY and I'm very confused as to how anyone can think Samus is stronger than Ness or Mewtwo. Samus is crafty, but that doesn't necessarily put her in Planet Buster Tier.

1. Kirby
2. Rosalina
3. Bayonetta
4. Shulk
5. Palutena
6. Ganondorf
7. Sonic
8. Samus
   
9. Ness
10. Mewtwo

I also have issues with Ganondorf's standing, but I get the point that he's basically immortal.

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Except Samus has literally busted multiple planets

And yeah, if you think about it, doesn't skull kid do literally no attacking as a boss in his game?

Hard to imagine Sakurai being inspired to make a special boss battle out of the original sequence, now that I think about it after becoming more skeptical of Skull Kid. (Being creative and making things up based on certain design aspects when it comes to making a character, on the other hand, is kind of par for the course.)

oh god you know what this means?

now we are gonna get box "leaks"

ned_ballad said:

And that something is this ridiculous box art theory

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Music theory was also crazy until it wasnt

Masozi said:

Random is a character. So 71 + random = nice symmetrical 72

I walked for the first time in a week today.

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Congrats! I hope you're recovering well.

Phendrift said:

Except Samus has literally busted multiple planets

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Did she? I was under the impression Zebes exploding was all the Space Pirates' doing, not Samus'.

Monster Hunter > Resident Evil > Devil May Cry

That having been said, we already have a Monster Hunter representation in the form of a boss fight, and this might just be the kind of franchise Sakurai envisions as best suited for a Boss/AT role because the most iconic part about Monster Hunter is... well, fighting monsters.

And Resident Evil could be done but again you'd have to ask if Sakurai would want to depict a franchise like that in a Smash capacity once you manage to make all the concessions necessary.

At that point, DMC is all that remains, even if what can be traced to Smash and Nintendo is fairly tenuous at best. But that's the funny thing, both Dante and the rumored Bamco rep are the third parties lobbied that generally fall less on the totem pole of Nintendo importance, so while Square seems like the most safe bet, I think these two rumored inclusions can honestly swing either way.

Masozi said:

Random is a character. So 71 + random = nice symmetrical 72

I walked for the first time in a week today.

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Congratz man! Wish you a nice recovery.

Kirbivore said:

Music theory was also crazy until it wasnt

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The music theory was mostly seen as crazy because it was presented by Brock.

Kirbivore said:

Music theory was also crazy until it wasnt

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Nothing has confirmed the music theory lol

Music theory is circumstantial evidence at best.

Kirbivore said:

Music theory was also crazy until it wasnt

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Just a quick correction: it's called the Verified Music Rule now.

We still dont have a Pokemon remix, the only oddity atm.

Regulus Tera said:

So I was watching this video about TOP 10 MOST POWERFUL SMASH CHARACTERS CANONICALLY and I'm very confused as to how anyone can think Samus is stronger than Ness or Mewtwo. Samus is crafty, but that doesn't necessarily put her in Planet Buster Tier.

1. Kirby
2. Rosalina
3. Bayonetta
4. Shulk
5. Palutena
6. Ganondorf
7. Sonic
8. Samus
   
9. Ness
10. Mewtwo

I also have issues with Ganondorf's standing, but I get the point that he's basically immortal.

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Samus being that high is pretty dumb. She shouldn't even be top 10.

But at least they did the right thing and put Kirby on top.

TDLink said:

Sir Arthur is not even close to as iconic as the rest you listed. He would never get in before all of them. Phoenix is well known and has a connection to Nintendo, but is also way more minor than the rest.

I agree that Monster Hunter and Resident Evil are both big and iconic enough to get representatives. But so is Devil May Cry.

Unfortunately Capcom won't just get 6 reps. Otherwise we could get all of them. Which would be justifiable since Capcom has the best stable of iconic IPs after Nintendo.

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Ghosts 'n Goblins games were a part of the NES Classic, the SNES Classic, and Switch Online presentation (from the very recent Nintendo Direct). Nintendo holds Ghosts 'n Goblins in high esteem. So I think mentioning Sir Arthur is completely fair game. Remember that Sakurai's first choice for Capcom character was Mega Man. Not a Street Fighter or Resident Evil character.

I can also make a similar argument in favor of Phoenix Wright. While his franchise isn't as big as other franchises, he's still a well known character with a strong connection to Nintendo.

(Not that I'm really expecting a third Capcom newcomer at this point. Just that Dante strikes me as a weird choice when Capcom has so many other options Sakurai could go for.)

Regulus Tera said:

Music theory is circumstantial evidence at best.

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It is, but like all circumstantial evidence, it is a complete misconception to assume that it means it's not important or valid because of it. Insofar the theory has held up.

Eh it's been four months and the Music Theory has still held up. I don't think it's confirmed but I think it's worth considering.

At the very least I'm confident in the "Only one song per franchise on the site" part of it.

Ryce said:

Snake doesn't have a knife.

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I must be thinking of Project M Snake

r_n said:

So it doesn't matter that much since the point of "this is the final box, which would be missing characters anyway" is the one ned is pushing but just to clear it up

The special edition, this thing

Is coming December 7th.

this

Is November 2nd and the box doesnt show anything like the special edition does

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well this is interesting

So how many does this leave? Two? Three?

MrSaturn99 said:

well this is interesting

So how many does this leave? Two? Three?

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2

r_n said:

So it doesn't matter that much since the point of "this is the final box, which would be missing characters anyway" is the one ned is pushing but just to clear it up

The special edition, this thing

Is coming December 7th.

this

Is November 2nd and the box doesnt show anything like the special edition does

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Oh damn, I actually didn't realize that.

I wonder why they cut Shadow?

Source gaming is actually humoring this?

...
Why didn't they do a video for the chair and music theories? I mean, if we're humoring the madness

Phendrift said:

Except Samus has literally busted multiple planets

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Well zebes wasn't from her. Phaaze was, but that was because dark samus attached herself to the planet, not samuw lutetqlly destroying the whole thing. And samus flung the GFS into sr388. She hasn't literally actually done it herself. I just wouldn't put her right at the top.

what if the later newcomers are on the back of the box

ned_ballad said:

Source gaming is actually humoring this?

...
Why didn't they do a video for the chair and music theories? I mean, if we're humoring the madness

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Why didn't they do a video for the Music Rule?
@SourceGaming

That's a pretty misleading thumbnail too

ned_ballad said:

Source gaming is actually humoring this?

...
Why didn't they do a video for the chair and music theories? I mean, if we're humoring the madness

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SG's theories are traditionally very conservative so it doesn't surprise me that they'd attach to the one theory that would disappoint everyone.

When the music update on Tuesday is an AC track the music theory is gonna be looking pretty good.

Also, no blog update tonight? Surprised they haven't done a Character of the Day post for Isabelle yet.

Regulus Tera said:

So I was watching this video about TOP 10 MOST POWERFUL SMASH CHARACTERS CANONICALLY and I'm very confused as to how anyone can think Samus is stronger than Ness or Mewtwo. Samus is crafty, but that doesn't necessarily put her in Planet Buster Tier.

1. Kirby
2. Rosalina
3. Bayonetta
4. Shulk
5. Palutena
6. Ganondorf
7. Sonic
8. Samus
   
9. Ness
10. Mewtwo

I also have issues with Ganondorf's standing, but I get the point that he's basically immortal.

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I can't say I agree with that list too much... I mean, Ganondorf exists to be defeated by Link, Shulk should be at least a little higher, it's missing literal godkillers like Ike, and Mewtwo doesn't have any business being on it. These kinds of lists are always shaky, but even accounting for that this one is strange.

Ah, we've reached the "people looking too much into marketing material" stage of Smash speculation.

this box theory is actually fun to watch, so continue away sourcegaming.

Squid Bunny said:

Ah, we've reached the "people looking too much into marketing material" stage of Smash speculation.

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We... weren't already there?

Regulus Tera said:

SG's theories are traditionally very conservative so it doesn't surprise me that they'd attach to the one theory that would disappoint everyone.

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The music theory could also be similarly conservative. According to that theory Geno and Skull Kid would not be a part of the roster unless they're an Echo. Then again I'm not sure who else outside of Elma and maybe a Pokemon it would effect. If they played a Golden Sun or Rhythm Heaven song with a generic song icon than you don't need the theory to tell you they're deconfirmed.

There's no rule every character needs to be on the box. Especially when they know it's being promoted before the whole roster is revealed.

what if the other newcomers are on the bottom of the box

Kirbivore said:

2

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Oh yeah, Isabelle's not on it.

Hmm, I guess I can't say I'm too disappointed considering the Herculean work into this roster, but I was hoping for a couple more Echo Fighters.

Anyway, supposing it's solid evidence, it'll be one more regular character and one more Echo Fighter.

Wouldnt the back of the box resemble the base versions back of the box?

Not sure if anyone got to doing a mass Incineroar bet list yet (please tell me if this already exists) but I want to give this thing a try. I'm gonna hog BGBW's format, so credit to him or whoever came up with that lol.

INCINEROAR AVATAR BET


Hailing from Pokemon Sun and Moon, he's known as the final evolution of the Alolan starter, Litten...

HE'S HOT-HEADED

HE'S RIPPED

HE DOESN'T PLAY BY THE RULES

AND HIS NAME IS INCINEROOOOOOOAR!!!


SO... Smash ERA... Do you think our favourite fire wrestler cat can get into Nintendo's toughest rogues' gallery this winter? Well...


As of 9/14/18 (from the people who replied to me in the morning)

Face Team (MAKES AN ENTRANCE INTO SMASH, BABY!):
chrisPjelly
Brock Reiher
LoboRundas
Lord Vatek
Okabe
ShinobiBk
Masozi


Heel Team (Knocked over the ropes, not in Smash Ultimate):
TimeFire
alexi52


WHEN DOES A TEAM WIN? When it becomes clear that the roster has been fully revealed OR if a trailer comes out confirming/deconfirming the character.

LOSING CONDITIONS:
Losers of the bet have to wear the assigned avatar for two weeks.

AVATAR DETAILS: TBD
I'm thinking about two ideas atm
-MILDLY suggestive (deviant)fanart of Incineroar. I really really REALLY should triple check with mods if they're going to be okay with this. I don't expect some participants to be cool with some of the art used, and I'm not mean enough to pressure people into using them lol
-Wrestlers photoshopped/drawn as Incineroar. This might be really tough for me to work on depending on how many people participate, but three months should be enough for me to make avatars in my spare time
Those are just from the top of my mind, so feel free to offer any ideas if you want to contribute.

I'm also thinking about whether or not to include an Assist Trophy team, but a triple threat might overcomplicate things. Feel free to suggest anything, I'm all ears, and of course, hit me up if you want in.

I think the theory is pretty solid tbh. I would be a little bummed with no Shadow the Hedgehog but considering we know every character will be revealed beforehand it makes sense they would all be on the box.

I'll only accept Box Theory if the last character is something that would make everyone salty like Minecraft Steve and Incineroar fans are left waiting for Godot.

chrisPjelly You know I'm all about the roar, baby

Crazy to think that come December once this madness is over Sakurai might just be like oh by the way...DLC !

and we start alll over again.