Can you explain to me why a man who wrote a rape joke and helps perpetuate the sexist culture at Riot gets to keep his job while the people that were Slightly Rude On Twitter get fired?
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Two Riot Employees "Leave" Under "Complicated Circumstances" After PAX Session Excluding Men.
- Thread starter Deleted member 5853
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Unless your company has a culture and vision, from the top down, that doesn't tolerate the viewpoints of a portion of your audience. Is that rare? Yes. But does it exist in most industries? Absolutely. Of course, Riot is not one of them.
I didn't respond to your post because you're not worth my time, so I don't even know what you're referring to here.
Yeah. We don't put up with this shit and we're loud about it, too.
Because he's not affecting the bottom line, Riot (and corporations) don't care. We know that, they should have known that. Again, that's the harsh reality. You can't fight a just cause under the assumption that the world is just.
About Kamiya, I doubt Platinum will fire him unless he starts affecting negatively the company. Vote with your wallets and don't buy anything he develops if you guys really want Platinum to at least consider getting rid of him.
It'd be cool if people would stop being concerned about the feelings of a multi-billion dollar company and the most persecuted minority of all - gamers.
What they said is nothing compared to what "gamers" do to devs (especially female and minority devs) on a daily basis, and them getting fired just shows Riot don't care at all about protecting their employees and once more throws them out to the wolves just like ArenaNet did.
What they said is nothing compared to what "gamers" do to devs (especially female and minority devs) on a daily basis, and them getting fired just shows Riot don't care at all about protecting their employees and once more throws them out to the wolves just like ArenaNet did.
And if we consider that corporations don't care, what is the best way to address these issues other than to, you know, drag them kicking and screaming into the public sphere?
You can't have people stay silent about these issues and expect to win just fighting internally. Because you've just hit the point.
I wouldn't go that far. Male nurses, elementary school teachers, babysitters... lots of traditionally "nurturing" professions can absolutely discriminate against men in some truly vile ways.
But yes, in this particular context, "sexist" is probably a bit too strong of a term. Riot was excluding based on gender, which is never a good thing, but it's not like any men were really negatively effected by being barred from a minor event.
Why not? Before you change their customers mind you gotta change Riot's. That's something they have to do internally, and with these two gone now it's an even harder fight.
Also I'm not saying you stay silent either, but you need to pick your battles. These two picked the wrong one and lost.
Have you ever worked at a large company before? Do you know how corporate culture works to silence dissent and ensure the status quo (however shitty it might be) remains the same? You're even contradicting yourself because you JUST mentioned that corporations don't care.
There have been plenty of people I guarantee you that have left or have been fired because they pushed too hard against the internal culture. The only way you can realistically beat this problem is by, again, publicizing it and making it an issue of the company's bottom line.
Regardless of if you can or cannot (you can't) be sexist towards men, excluding men from an event isn't sexism, it's affirmative action.
How's that working so far then? The bottom line seems to side mostly with these assholes, and not with the people fighting for equality. The demographic doesn't seem to be in our favor to do that. People inside need to change the culture within Riot to the point that they're willing to take the hit to their bottom line.
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It'd be like if I worked at a hedge fund , someone there got charged with insider trading, so I go on twitter and rant talking about corruption, class inequality, etc, and then say if you don't see things that way you must be an idiot even if I clearly should know there are a lot of people my business has interests in that I am then qualifying as an "idiot". I mean yeah I dont agree with animal cruelty or sexism either lol
The parallel I was creating was firing employees that have no consideration for where the business they are working for stands in regards to what they are stating on public platforms. If you are an employer like I said whether you agree or not, if an employee is calling parts of your audience stupid or anything along those lines it is firing time. Just don't see the injustice in that. Riot didn't decide their audience, this guy isn't actually helping and bringing awareness to more problems within Riot in a constructive way that could help, he is literally just ranting. Just a bad employee, what else can you say
You're equating someone passionately arguing against sexism with condemnable comments. The harshest thing you can say about what was said is that it was argumentative and antagonistic. There is nothing that was said that should have resulted in someone being fired. And equating what these Riot employees said with actual condemnable, fireable comments is disingenuous and serves only to benefit the sexism rooted in the controversy at its origin.
Again the viewpoint is not the issue... it is the attacking of customers. I truly believe the best way to win against gg'ers is to ignore them and carry on making changes behind the scenes. This shit doesn't help and with this and ArenaNet actually empowers them because it makes them rally around one another.
Dude, Colin got fired for doing a little insult against his twitter base and Colins insult in itself was seen as sexist. The argumentative and antagonistic tweet literally has everything to do with him being fired if that is what happened; more so to do then some conspiracy that Riot is trying to protect sexism further in their culture. Like the man said let PR do their job. Even I sympathize though despite thinking it was not so smart, Colin had more reason to know better given that he was supported through Patreon no sympathy there
In the gaming world? Not even close.
"Modern sexism incorporates traditional ideas about women's roles into the dynamics of modern society. Rather than believing women cannot have careers, modern sexism dictates that women excel at particular careers (including, but not limited to, teachers, nurses, and caretakers)"
Give a more sophisticated response without namecalling. Being professional isn't that difficult.
You know what really empowers GG? Giving in to everything they want, 2 months and 4 employees have been fired for calling them exactly what they are but people are more concerned about the feelings of a GamerGater than someone who get's harassed just for merely existing in this industry.
Exactly and that's why stuff like this is the problem and why companies like riot should be called out for things like this.
This is incredibly ignorant. Gamergate was just the formalization of a pattern of behavior that has been endemic in the industry for decades. Ignoring the problem has been how the industry has dealt with it for decades now, and as it turns out, decades of ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.
Speaking as myself, but not as a spokesperson (I mostly lurk & am exceptionally unqualified to speak on the behalf of Riot in this matter) - the whole ordeal is incredibly disappointing.
Riot allows (and encourages) any employee to post online to communities, with very little restriction beyond "don't share secrets", "don't share personal/player/coworker info" and "don't attack players". It is a very rare permission among large gaming companies, and is a privilege I cherish. The rules are also pretty generous, IMO. That said, continuing to be relatively silent on these matters feels like I'm not doing right by the principles on which that privilege was afforded to us as employees. This isn't a PR thing - it's a "well, if I want to be part of this community, I better actually take part in it" sort of reply.
Because of the three above rules, can't say a whole lot, but I can say that both Mattias & Daniel are incredibly talented & compassionate individuals. I wish them nothing but the best in the future, and I'm really disappointed in the entire scenario that has transpired within Riot over the past month. I, among others, remain committed to making Riot a place in which its ideals are identified by more than it's inspirational statements.
This sucks, y'all.
Riot allows (and encourages) any employee to post online to communities, with very little restriction beyond "don't share secrets", "don't share personal/player/coworker info" and "don't attack players". It is a very rare permission among large gaming companies, and is a privilege I cherish. The rules are also pretty generous, IMO. That said, continuing to be relatively silent on these matters feels like I'm not doing right by the principles on which that privilege was afforded to us as employees. This isn't a PR thing - it's a "well, if I want to be part of this community, I better actually take part in it" sort of reply.
Because of the three above rules, can't say a whole lot, but I can say that both Mattias & Daniel are incredibly talented & compassionate individuals. I wish them nothing but the best in the future, and I'm really disappointed in the entire scenario that has transpired within Riot over the past month. I, among others, remain committed to making Riot a place in which its ideals are identified by more than it's inspirational statements.
This sucks, y'all.
I think the hardships sexism causes for women are more obvious and more plentiful so that is just what gets discussed more but it is a big problem for everyone. Being a massage therapist it was actually pretty rough at the start of my career largely in part because of blatant discrimination, with a few spas literally just saying they already have a guy (notice singular, as in a lot of spas will only allow one guy per shift if any). It was weird coming from a field where like most, I was probably seeing benefit without realizing. You should probably expand the definition of modern sexism to dictate was gender excels at a particular career as opposed to implying sexism is only about what women can and cant do
I don't really care either way just thinking
I get it I'm just saying it doesn't accomplish anything. You don't give in by ignoring them. You give in by making it look like companies have given up because they are forced to act against unruly employees . We should be calling them out not employees and the empoyees should know better.
As above we should call them out. not employees. That's the difference. I understand the frustration but it is a fact of work and life in general.
Then they went and participated in the worst possible way. Why would you do that unless you knew very well any company would fire you for doing this?
Right, which is why sexism against men who are attempting to enter those professions is harmful both to nurturing men and women attempting to enter more traditionally "masculine" fields like business and tech.
Sexism against men exists, but is mostly limited to those who fall outside of the usual gender roles and expectations.
And this reads far more constructive then "man babies". Appreciate that this post highlights another thing; Riot is not some evil corporation where everyone is sexist trying to silence those in their company causing them problems with their free speech. Daniel clearly broke the third guideline there even if he didn't realize it at the time, and those guidelines exist for good reason.
people still have to understand that social media is a place where your career can die with just one post
Gooooood stuff.
Why should people who are ok with women being treated like shit be given a professional response. His response was honestly pretty tame anyway, especially in comparison to the kinda of things that get were being said on reddit.
Except you're painting the employee as acting against the company's interests. Imagine if this insider trading company explicitly said it was going to great effort to embolden anti-insider trading within the company and that it would support anti-insider trader employees. And imagine if firing an employee in such a way quite clearly made clear that the company was still insider trading.
There is no positive coming out of Riot Games decision to fire this employee. How many of their employees feel safe standing up against sexism now? How many of them will now face renewed sexist harassment campaigns as a result? How safe do those employees feel with regards to their own employers? The employers who just recently acknowledge they were innately sexist and trying to do better?
All because Reddit freaked out for a couple of days. It's insanity.
i wonder if this situation will afect female splash arts on incoming females heroes and female skins at all.
Not really hypocritical if they were fired for not following a company guideline to not comment on the controversy
Really appreciate the input. Hope you as a company can live up to your promises without any more drama.