The guy has some smart criticisms. I still think its nice to have a portable version. But clearly isn't 100% perfect.
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Was Majora's Mask 3D a bad remake? (Youtube video)
- Thread starter Kinsei
- Start date
First time I played this game was the 3DS version, and it thereafter became my favourite Zelda game. I can see the complaints, but I absolutely loved what I played, so I'm glad the game's the way it is.
It's also a million times better than OoT (of which the 3DS version was also the first time I played it), come at me.
It's also a million times better than OoT (of which the 3DS version was also the first time I played it), come at me.
OK, yeah, Zora swimming was the one thing that actually seems like a downgrade. Ice Arrows were not really an issue to me.
I still really liked it. I know Matthewmatosis has raised similar complaints to the ones in the video and has done this sorta comparison for WWHD too.
Most of the game is still fantastic in the 3DS version- though there are indeed issues raised in regards to the boss fights and the Mask transformations. Worth pointing out how the 3DS version improves several things too- much more convenient mask/item swapping, better save system, better placement for the bank, much improved bow & arrow minigames, time skipping to any hour of any day and several other subtle improvements (the placement of the guard who gives the stone mask for instance).
Edit: and also it nailed the atmosphere and bleakness that was always the most important aspect of MM. The Zora swimming being rubbish and the boss fights being dummbed down doesn't really bring the overall experience down much in that way.
Most of the game is still fantastic in the 3DS version- though there are indeed issues raised in regards to the boss fights and the Mask transformations. Worth pointing out how the 3DS version improves several things too- much more convenient mask/item swapping, better save system, better placement for the bank, much improved bow & arrow minigames, time skipping to any hour of any day and several other subtle improvements (the placement of the guard who gives the stone mask for instance).
Edit: and also it nailed the atmosphere and bleakness that was always the most important aspect of MM. The Zora swimming being rubbish and the boss fights being dummbed down doesn't really bring the overall experience down much in that way.
This. Old MM bosses weren't good at all, the freedom to hit them with basically every weapon makes them really easy and exploitable.
I'm happy that my first experience with the game was the original, it was a dark and obtuse game (but at the time most games were obtuse compared to today's standards), but as a way to replay the game with QoL improvements and good visuals, MM3D is perfect.
Changing Zora swimming to require magic to get anywhere with appropriate speed but then not adding any additional magic jars in Great Bay was a colossal, amateur hour screw up. Most of the other changes were absolutely unneeded, but livable, but the Zora swimming is basically ruined. It was seriously disappointing after how ridiculously faithful Ocarina of Time 3D was, and it's kind of hard to believe that many of the changes made to the game that show absolutely no faith in players managing to figure things out on their own (Ice Arrows being limited to specific spots on water, the invisible guard being moved to inside the Pirate Hideout) were made by the same people that were in the middle of creating Breath of the Wild.
I mean maybe not bad but it's not great. This guy is completely on point I've been saying this stuff since release. Majora's Mask is my favorite game of all time and some of these changes were absolutely unnecessary.
While I do sympathize with individuals who view the original game as sacred (it has been maybe my favorite game since the day it came out), I really think aside from the swimming change, which really is just a tedious inconvenience, the game is vastly improved by the 3D remake.
But this is Zelda, which seems uniquely affected by a constant cycle of re-examination and hot takes, especially soon after the latest releases in the franchise.
But this is Zelda, which seems uniquely affected by a constant cycle of re-examination and hot takes, especially soon after the latest releases in the franchise.
I agree that the Zora swimming is ruined, but if you consider that you'll be a lot more time exploring the narrow corridors of the Great Bay temple compared to the few minutes you'll be exploring Great Bay (and let's be honest, there's almost nothing in the area to explore), it makes sense. The execution is poor, but the idea is good IMO.
The remakes were made by Grezzo, I don't think any of the BOTW devs worked on them
2018, the year where making vast sweeping improvements to 3/4 bosses and pretty neutral ones to the last one (goht) is inexcusable.
OP
OP
There was already a slower swimming speed and the ability to walk underwater to navigate narrow passages. There was no need to ruin the swimming for a non issue.
They were made by Grezzo but the Zelda team were still the ones calling the creative shots.
I thought they changed too much and then went over to the N64 version for my first playthrough (I was like half-way through on the 3DS version). Felt like I wasn't playing the real MM after reading up on the changes.
I also find the art direction of the original superior at times.
I also find the art direction of the original superior at times.
It's not bad, but not the definitive way of playing the game for me at least. Some of the things that impacted the oppressing atmosphere of the original were changed and I wish they added an N64 mode just like in Star Fox 64 3D as stated in the video. One where they kept some of the things from the original like Deku Link and Zora Link not being nerfed, saving only when going back in time, Inverted Song of Time slowing time by 30% rather than 50%, Bosses being back to their original ways.
Yeah, but both options were really slow. As I've said I understand what they changed it, obviously tapping A two times to use the fast swimming without using magic sounds like a better fix. And as I understand that it was a non-issue, the fast swim was only used as a mechanic a few times, it was mostly a fun way to traverse the map exactly like horses are in BotW, but are not a major tool to solve puzzles so Nintendo thought that it wasn't a big loss.
I've never played the original but I absolutely loved the 3DS game and I feel like most of the changes made have been for the better.
I still felt the constant fear of losing time without the need of annoying mechanics.
I still felt the constant fear of losing time without the need of annoying mechanics.
The remake is better than oot's imo. It also needed the QOL additions to the journal and this is a guy that really really likes games that make you work for your reward.
I really only found the Gyorg fight to be better.
Odolwa as a straight up sword fight was a cool way to spotlight human Link's abilities after having spend a good portion of the game at this point as a Deku. It wasn't hard, but it felt appropriately actiony and reminded us that Link is the Hero of Time and is pretty experienced with these kinds of things.
I already talked about Goht, but the original is one of my favorite fights in the series.
Gyorg is honeslty not particularly memorable to me in either version, but I do think the 3DS version is at least more ambitious.
I really, really hated the Twinmold fight. Giant Luchador Link just felt way too silly and that portion of the fight really dragged on. I will say that forcing the beginning of the fight as regular Link was good and gave a nice challenge, but the second half just ruined it for me.
I skipped around just a bit because I don't have time to watch the whole video. The Zora swimming change was shocking. Half of my Majora's Mask fun came from swimming and messing around while swimming.
The ice arrows were the worst change imo. Like the video says, it gives away solutions to certain puzzles. I would go further to say that insults the player's intelligence. Figuring out the applications and clever uses of your new tool is the entire idea behind Zelda dungeons.
Don't like he suggested that 4 years development time means the game had more resources available than the first one. But he did enlightened me about some of the remake problems.
Still, I believe that the point of remakes is to bring the games to new audiences, since the old guard has easy access to the old version through virtual console. I mean, if you just want better visuals, you just want a remaster, not a remake.
Still, I believe that the point of remakes is to bring the games to new audiences, since the old guard has easy access to the old version through virtual console. I mean, if you just want better visuals, you just want a remaster, not a remake.
With the exception of Twilight Princess every remake/remaster Nintendo has done with Zelda has had some pretty big issues that distances it from the original in the look and feel.
I never liked MM but i am in no way surprised there's controversy about it by fans.
I never liked MM but i am in no way surprised there's controversy about it by fans.
I do like some of the suggestions in the video.
I imagine a re-release of the remake will happen eventually and I hope they consider some changes.
Here are some of mine:
I imagine a re-release of the remake will happen eventually and I hope they consider some changes.
Here are some of mine:
- Like Star Fox 64 3D, add a toggle for the original version. Perhaps make it as a "hard mode", flip the map horizontally to give it a different feel.
- A lot of the changes were made due to being on a portable so if it's ported on Switch it doesn't need to be.
- Revert Deku and Zora Link's controls.
- Improve some models, Link's is a bit goofy while the N64 version looked more neutral/serious. His forearms are chunky and the animation of the slow walk looks bad.Don't like Anju's new model and the Hat always flipping up at the end looks kind of bad.
- All the transformations on the d-pad sounds great. You were already given an additional item slot and the ocarina but this would give more options especially on a system with no touch screen. Maybe implement BOtW's Bow switching.
- Bomber's notebook change didn't bother me as much as I would've thought. But, it would be nice if the first one opened up and maybe explained what it does and then the rest are just a notification.
- Twinmold's fight is fine, but it takes too long. Just 3 hits would've been enough.
I feel blessed in having skipped the 3D remake from this vid.
the ice arrow nerf was already enough for me to lose interest in the remake, it's probably one of my most used item in the game after all, I would try to freeze everything and would try to use ice blocks to go everywhere.
The boss changes are horrible too, Odolwa felt like an actual sword fight and would be hilariously easy to kill late game (like 5s long). Now I feel like if you go to him late game, it means minutes out of your time to kill him.
And holy shit at Twinmold! The boss you could kill without the mask as a challenge is now downright bad.
OoT3D is definitely the better remake, I mean it features Master Quest + Regular Quest without having to dig up that GC disc. Heck aside from some preference on how the game uses lighting I don't think I have any issues with the game at all.
I mean if people couldn't stand MM and like MM3d, it's great that they're able to enjoy the game that way but it's clearly not for me.
Also Water temple was best dungeon in OoT, don't @ me.
the ice arrow nerf was already enough for me to lose interest in the remake, it's probably one of my most used item in the game after all, I would try to freeze everything and would try to use ice blocks to go everywhere.
The boss changes are horrible too, Odolwa felt like an actual sword fight and would be hilariously easy to kill late game (like 5s long). Now I feel like if you go to him late game, it means minutes out of your time to kill him.
And holy shit at Twinmold! The boss you could kill without the mask as a challenge is now downright bad.
OoT3D is definitely the better remake, I mean it features Master Quest + Regular Quest without having to dig up that GC disc. Heck aside from some preference on how the game uses lighting I don't think I have any issues with the game at all.
I mean if people couldn't stand MM and like MM3d, it's great that they're able to enjoy the game that way but it's clearly not for me.
Also Water temple was best dungeon in OoT, don't @ me.
Twilight Princess is a very safe and boring remaster.
OOT 3D Is accepted as the best version.
Despite the light source bug, WWHD is accepted as the best looking and playing version as well.
The changes to the bosses are the only real thing that I think people could have issues with. They're mostly minor changes, and in most cases I think they're improvements.
Forgot about the Zora swimming change as well. Not really crippling, but definitely a detriment.
Forgot about the Zora swimming change as well. Not really crippling, but definitely a detriment.
TP HD is basically a resolution bump of TP with GC and Wii orientation to choose from.
OoT 3D is indeed the best version with all the bells and whistles you could find across all versions.
Couldn't care less about WW so I skipped HD, still not sure how I feel about the triforce quest changes... the lack of tingle tunner is missed though
I agree with the video completely. I would go as far as to say that MM3D is straight up trash.
The Zora swim, boss battles, and bombers changes are so egregious that is actually hurts the spirit of the original.
The changes in art design are also a huge pet peeve of mine. Clock town was so characteristic and had so much personality in the original. The remake is all squeaky clean and boring.
The Zora swim, boss battles, and bombers changes are so egregious that is actually hurts the spirit of the original.
The changes in art design are also a huge pet peeve of mine. Clock town was so characteristic and had so much personality in the original. The remake is all squeaky clean and boring.
Twilight Princess is pretty faithful.
OoT screwed up completely in a massive way how the game is supposed to look.
WWHD had the same issue with this weird early ps360 era choice for bloom and the very dumb lightning changes that kill the "2d animation" look of the game.
One can consider OoT3D and WWHD as best version/best looking if they never cared for the visual identity of the originals i guess.
Yeah it's a pretty clear downgrade when it comes to movement and difficulty. Glad I have the original cart and the VC release.
My second favorite game of all time, how did I not really notice some of that lmao.
The Zora change I noticed. The water hopping shit I didnt.
Mostly I just wish they had added a harder mode. The game is way too easy on 3ds.
The Zora change I noticed. The water hopping shit I didnt.
Mostly I just wish they had added a harder mode. The game is way too easy on 3ds.
I'd say that it's the N64 version, to be honest, just because the control stick is more sensitive than it should be for aiming in all of the emulated versions.
I prefer the 3DS version, but that's as someone who doesn't think Majora's Mask was all that good to begin with. It was the first Zelda game where I didn't like the dungeons or the bosses, which were kind of the whole appeal of the series to me. The game's structure was unpleasant, and the heavy asset recycling felt cheap and distracting, taking me out of the experience. It was a game where's Nintendo's usual polish passes felt noticeably absent. I understand that this lack of iteration is part of the appeal however, and that it complemented the pressure of time mechanics well.
The video makes quite a few valid observations and suggestions, however. Mapping the masks on the free DPad would have been a very elegant UI decision, and the Elegy of Emptiness really could have used a revision. The ice arrows seemed like real unfortunate change as well. I didn't really notice the new limitation the remake imposed on the arrows, so I guess I just followed the guidance of the visual game too closely outside the Gyorg fight. Zora Link's controls felt much nicer to me in the unwieldy, irritating Great Bay Temple, but making it more newcomer friendly shouldn't have come at the expense of the higher level play. As the video suggested, there could have many ways to please both.
The video makes quite a few valid observations and suggestions, however. Mapping the masks on the free DPad would have been a very elegant UI decision, and the Elegy of Emptiness really could have used a revision. The ice arrows seemed like real unfortunate change as well. I didn't really notice the new limitation the remake imposed on the arrows, so I guess I just followed the guidance of the visual game too closely outside the Gyorg fight. Zora Link's controls felt much nicer to me in the unwieldy, irritating Great Bay Temple, but making it more newcomer friendly shouldn't have come at the expense of the higher level play. As the video suggested, there could have many ways to please both.
I really like the 3DS remake, but I think some of the changes they made to the boss fights were kind of lame. The Twinmold fight in particular was just awful.
Hell no. Easily, easily the best way to play the game. Countless excellent quality of life changes, some previously almost-useless masks now have more uses, the Bomber's Notebook is now as comprehensive as it should have been in the original, bosses are no longer complete pushovers, the new fishing minigame is a fantastic spin on the usual meditative experience it usually is (try catching the biggest fish in both ponds while there's only a few hours remaining...) and everything looks so much better overall.
Granted, it's not a perfectly-implemented change (putting swimming and the electrical-cone move on the same button is not ideal), but I can also step back and see why they made it. You need magic to go full speed (and increase proximity damage) as a Goron, it shouldn't be any different as a Zora. And speaking of non-issues: if magic's a problem, down a Chateau Romani and go nuts.
You are very fortunate to have never played a game where a developer truly, actually ruined something through a patch or remake, if you think MM3D Zora swimming qualifies.
Granted, it's not a perfectly-implemented change (putting swimming and the electrical-cone move on the same button is not ideal), but I can also step back and see why they made it. You need magic to go full speed (and increase proximity damage) as a Goron, it shouldn't be any different as a Zora. And speaking of non-issues: if magic's a problem, down a Chateau Romani and go nuts.
