-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Rurouni Kenshin mangaka Nobuhiro Watsuki charged with child porn possession [Mod edit: READ THE OP]
- Thread starter Hayama Akito
- Start date
This is quite a complicated issue. Although I wasn't following his current work, I still enjoyed Kenshin back in the day. Even now, I am not currently inclined to instantly reject and forget everything the man has ever made.
Frankly, I tend to think that all works of entertainment and art should always be judged on their own merits, regardless of their individual producers. This is easier to do when the creators are already dead, mind you, yet I am relatively inclined to apply that same standard to living individuals. Who should be punished in a manner that is proportional to the gravity of their offenses, rather than being given a free pass or excused. What, if anything, happens with their artistic works is harder to say.
Terrible human beings can produce excellent art and the opposite can also be true, in addition to a nearly infinite number of intermediate combinations. Does the crime under discussion make this guy a horrible person? In one way, at the very least, because it does introduce a gross element into his private life and allows us to question his judgment...but I do not think the situation is equivalent to what's been happening with sexual abuse, rape and harassment in Hollywood.
Frankly, I tend to think that all works of entertainment and art should always be judged on their own merits, regardless of their individual producers. This is easier to do when the creators are already dead, mind you, yet I am relatively inclined to apply that same standard to living individuals. Who should be punished in a manner that is proportional to the gravity of their offenses, rather than being given a free pass or excused. What, if anything, happens with their artistic works is harder to say.
Terrible human beings can produce excellent art and the opposite can also be true, in addition to a nearly infinite number of intermediate combinations. Does the crime under discussion make this guy a horrible person? In one way, at the very least, because it does introduce a gross element into his private life and allows us to question his judgment...but I do not think the situation is equivalent to what's been happening with sexual abuse, rape and harassment in Hollywood.
There are still enough DVDs of those coming out weekly, legally sadly. I think they only removed them from DMM afaik.
Why would you even google that? What I described is what a lot of those "junior gravure idol" DVDs are about. Even if you look for normal JAV, you often find those....
Ah, so they're just behind the counter stuff now I guess? Thought they were just straight up in the process of outlawing it.
It's to the point where I think any decent forum needs to word filter "loli" and "shota" to "actual god damn children".
Anyone who uses either of those terms gets massive stink-eye from me.
Nothing, of course, everyone is entitled to their modicum of happiness and just because something may seem questionable upon first look it does not mean that's what it inherently is. Making a career out of it raises other issues, though, others are being exposed to this material and enjoying it not because of what it is, but because of what it seems to be. Rape fantasy is all fine and dandy since between two consenting adults anything goes and having had a past SO who was into that type of thing it can indeed be perfectly harmless. Underage fantasies are never something that should be encouraged or entertained though since there is no forseeable scenario, ever, where that could happen in a healthy and consensual way. I won't fault or blame anyone who is a pedophile provided they do not act on it since it is beyond their control, but actually promoting and endorsing such behaviour will only foster more aficionados, which is something that should be actively avoided at all costs, wherever possible. He can do it in his own time, but profitting from selling it makes it a public affair, and this isn't something that should be tolerated in a fetishist context.
I will forever defend the need for absolute freedom in a creative context, though, but this is not that.
Curiosity is part of human nature. This is beyond creepy.
The distinction doesn't matter. What matters is that we don't let them get away with colorful euphemisms. Euphemisms normalize it. So does the "It's just a drawing" argument. Calling them "loli" and "shota" distances the fact that these are children, drawing or no. We should not let that happen.
And the fact that you bring up this contention makes me stink-eye you too, at least a little. I have never, ever seen the "It's drawings" argument used in an honest manner. It is a way to close down discussion and further normalize this shit. And if you didn't know that, then, well, now you do.
If you think I'm being overly blunt and harsh on this, reacquaint yourself with the subject matter. I take a zero tolerance stand because I've seen so many people argue bullshit around this in the anime community, and they have partially succeeded in normalizing it, to a point. Which is a shame because I don't want one of my areas of interest infested by these people, but hey. You deal with what life gives you.
Now if you didn't mean to provoke this response, and you actually agree with what I'm saying, then that's fine, and I don't hold it against you. But I must make this point absolutely clear. There is no meaningful distinction here, and to pretend that there is only helps these people.
Last edited:
That's like saying "If you used to post on NeoGAF where there was a convicted pedophile moderator then by association maybe you are also a pedophile."
At least they are still producing those.
I also think its questionable that, besides those "junior gravure idol" DVDs normal "junior idol DVDs exist. I would argue that the majority of viewers of those arent teens. I remember I liked some teenage actress around 15 years ago and while looking for more of her roles, it seemed she also made those "ordinary day DVDs". I just wonder who watches that girl just walking around a european city doing.... touristy things?
Of course it does. He is in possession of child pornography, he's fairly clearly a terrible human.
They were featured on the biggest JAV website in Japan, DMM, before they removed them...
No. He has fucking porn dvds of young girls. He admitted he likes young elementary to middle school girls. He's validating a market that trades in goods that are made by HARMING CHILDREN.
Dude needs to fucking rot in jail.
This user was banned for 1 month for defending the act of pedophillia after a similar case of being callous towards rape victims
It's hard for us to understand the amount of restraint and self control necessary to keep one from indulging one's own perversions. Can you honestly say that if you were a pedophile (remember, it's not a choice) you would manage to go your entire life without ever even attempting to watch anything? It's a fairly obvious assumption that it is no easy task, surely.
It's the only reason I actually understand the somewhat lenient laws regarding possession of CP. Distribution makes it much much worse, but possession by itself is somewhat understandable, even though it is highly reprehensible. It's a difficult subject to tackle...
Read above. Not saying anyone should get a pass, but let's maybe cool our engines, this isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be, unfortunately.
I did say that makes him bad in one sense. That's a natural reaction to something most of us find to be disgusting.
But if reading a lot of history and politics has taught me anything, it's that human beings can be multiple things at once and that the realities and implications of each situation deserve to be analyzed in detail.
On that note, I can only hope -beyond his admission of the crime- that he's being very honest about having a problem and, to the extent it is psychologically possible, wants to receive whatever treatment exists (if there is anything at all, I am not a specialist), in addition to the more punitive side of this situation.
To clarify, I absolutely agree that the Japanese law regarding this subject is apparently a complete joke and the man should be punished as well. Up to one year of prison and a fine is not nearly enough of a sentencing range.
Last edited:
I don't think it should be that hard to understand for most people, considering the number of people who have looked at (non-child) pornography. Just take whatever kind of pornography you have been attracted to and imagine that you found your sexual urges tended in a different direction. Temptation is universal; the particulars of temptation are what vary.
As much as i like Araki - it wouldn't really suprise me that much considering Lucy Steel who is 14 and this cover
[nsfw content removed by moderator]
Last edited by a moderator:
Humans are flawed, multi-faceted beings with some flaws having bigger consequences than others. The very worst of humanity still have their own positive sides and may have done good in their lives. True evil does not exist just as true good does not exist.
But I'm not sure if that really pertains to this thread too much.
Damn. Good thing I never really read or watched Kenshin beyond the prequel OVA. If it ever turns out that Kentarou Miura, Akira Toriyama, or godforbid Hayao Miyazaki or Isao Takahata are guilty of the same kind of crimes I'll be devastated.
If anything, Kenshin had more fanservice for women then men, I'd think.
We really shouldn't be using art to make assumptions like this. Plenty of writers and artists have written and drawn horrible characters that do things they literally never would. Like, we shouldn't assume the guy that wrote Dexter is a serial killer just because that what he wrote about.
More on topic, this is really fucked up. It's made all the worse by the fact Kenshin is one of the greats of the shonen manga genre. Fucking hell man, what the fuck.
Last edited by a moderator:
Didn't Watsuki have the whole issue with his wife kidnapping his daughter or am I getting confused with someone else?
True, actually speaking of which SPOILERS FOR STEEL BALL RUN
- It could have been really bad to have the relationship between Stephen (who is 50) and Lucy (who is 14) be squicky but Araki did an extremely good reason as to why Stephen and Lucy and Lucy especially will do anything to protect her. Plus Lucy wanted to get married but Stephen openly declined.
oh god if miura is a scumbag I'll be so upset
Last edited:
I think there is an important distinction between drawings and reality. It isn't reasonable in the slightest compare the questionable content of some of the recent Made in Abyss or To Love Ru to what Watsuki had in his closet as the latter furthers a market of hellish suffering.
Oh nice, another mangaka to add into the shitlist considering how raunchy To love ru is.
You might want to read that again. He was a victim in that situation.
Yo.... Hold on. Dude made raunchy manga, but by all accounts his wife was the screwed up one
Yeah, Yabuki was the victim. He also modeled the love interest in To Love Ru after his wife, which is why she had a reduced role in the sequel.
Man... These days it seems everyone that worked on things I like is a shitty human being.
I really like Rurouni Kenshin. Fuck this guy.
I really like Rurouni Kenshin. Fuck this guy.
Dude, his wife cheated on him and kidnapped his daughter and pretty much being a shitty parent all around. Yabuki is actually let go some of his loyalty to to get custody for his daughter
This is a massive improvement. A few years ago possession wasn't illegal.
Certainly, but you just have to wonder what goes on in the mind of a guy who has a young daughter while simultaneously making his money by drawing borderline porn of underage girls and constantly finding new ways to sneak underage genitals around the censorship laws. I mean, the guy was a fucking master at that.
Re-posted again for emphasis.
Be mindful when discussing this topic. And keep it to official news sources.
There are a lot of problematic elements in Japan's visual medium that leans with components of underage sexualisation, and it is an industry-wide problem that not just covers drawn illustrations, but even gravure; all of which are merit for discussion.
But at the same time, let's avoid going down the pool of assuming or being overly speculative about other prominent creators...
Even if they are authors of promiscuous content. Otherwise we can easily name dozens, if not hundreds of authors of all genders. No random guessing.
Stuff like the prior history of authors like Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro and any related concerns stemming from similar issues is fair though.
Be mindful when discussing this topic. And keep it to official news sources.
There are a lot of problematic elements in Japan's visual medium that leans with components of underage sexualisation, and it is an industry-wide problem that not just covers drawn illustrations, but even gravure; all of which are merit for discussion.
But at the same time, let's avoid going down the pool of assuming or being overly speculative about other prominent creators...
Even if they are authors of promiscuous content. Otherwise we can easily name dozens, if not hundreds of authors of all genders. No random guessing.
Stuff like the prior history of authors like Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro and any related concerns stemming from similar issues is fair though.
Which is why, again, we shouldn't be making assumptions based on what artists write/draw.
Remember that Kenshin was historical fiction and an action series. The only little kids in the series we're essentially window dressing to show Kenshin was a good dude. If you look at the work by itself there's no indication the creator would do this shit. His own main character would probably have beaten the crap out of him for it.
Like the guy that did Oh My Goddess, the most chaste manga ever, is on like his third marriage and has a history of cheating. And Steven King, by all accounts, is a really good dude despite writing a ton of crazy horror stories with some eyebrow raising stuff.
Just saying that the stuff someone creates often doesn't give you a view into them as a person and we shouldn't be prejudging people based on their works.
Remember that Kenshin was historical fiction and an action series. The only little kids in the series we're essentially window dressing to show Kenshin was a good dude. If you look at the work by itself there's no indication the creator would do this shit. His own main character would probably have beaten the crap out of him for it.
Like the guy that did Oh My Goddess, the most chaste manga ever, is on like his third marriage and has a history of cheating. And Steven King, by all accounts, is a really good dude despite writing a ton of crazy horror stories with some eyebrow raising stuff.
Just saying that the stuff someone creates often doesn't give you a view into them as a person and we shouldn't be prejudging people based on their works.
The user was suspended 1 month for this post. We're not going to entertain discussion or defense of content sexualizing under aged children, whether real or fictional.
There's nothing wrong with being uncomfortable with loli stuff, but there is a definite distinction between it and actual child pornography. To make a similar parallel, enjoying violence in media such as video games or action movies does not necessarily mean that you wish to harm people in real life.