Well, Moff made them pompous and dull yet again with Day of the Doctor & Hell Bent lol, so so they've flip flopped again
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Well, Moff made them pompous and dull yet again with Day of the Doctor & Hell Bent lol, so so they've flip flopped again
I gave up after the first year of Capaldi, so I'm a little behind on recent episodes.
I was honestly expecting them to be the solution to the Tardis explosion in season 5, instead of
the whole plotline being dumped as an aside in Time of the Doctor
I'd replace Day of the Doctor with Terror of the Autons, but yeah, it's slim pickings
War games is a top ten serial of all time imo. Escalation from the generals in the early eps, to the war chief/security chief in the middle and finally the War Lord/Time Lords at the end was sublime.
Only serial I would say that was conclusively better was Remembrance of the Daleks.
Only serial I would say that was conclusively better was Remembrance of the Daleks.
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Nah, can't agree there. The slow burn that we get from The War Games is absolutely essential for making the ending land as hard as it does.
Classic Who has a nasty tendency to drag, but I wouldn't cut a second of the War Games.
The War Games is repetitive, but it turns that repetitiveness into a strength rather than a weakness. No matter what era you're in, war is hell, and military leaders are small minded bullies. It's a really genius script when you get right down to it. Even moreso on original broadcast when veiwers had no clue that the mysterious "Time Lords" mentioned earlier in the story would turn out to be the Doctor's own people.
Come on, it's like 250 minutes long. There was more than enough slow burn in the first 150 minutes of it.
Thinking about it, here would be my top 10 classic Who (as of Doctors 1-4):
1. The Mind Robber
2. Spearhead from Space
3. Horror of Fang Rock
4. City of Death
5. The War Games
6. Pyramids of Mars
7. Inferno
8. An Unearthly Child (ep. 1)
9. Genesis of the Daleks
10. The Tomb of the Cybermen / The Daleks
Pertwee's Doctor and era were my least favorite of the first four, but Spearhead and Inferno are real classics. Really, that entire first Pertwee season is just fantastic (then it goes downhill hard from there). On the other hand, I love Hartnell's Doctor and especially when he's with Ian/Barbara -- way more so than so I would've expected going in -- but a lot of those stories just felt so-so to me. I watched a little under a dozen Hartnell episodes and think they peaked right at the beginning with those first two stories. There are certainly some great moments sprinkled throughout his later episodes, and they do have this nice 60s TV charm, but they overall feel not particularly great or particularly bad, just...fine.
And I know this is boring, but I have to go with the consensus that Baker and Troughton really are the best.
1. The Mind Robber
2. Spearhead from Space
3. Horror of Fang Rock
4. City of Death
5. The War Games
6. Pyramids of Mars
7. Inferno
8. An Unearthly Child (ep. 1)
9. Genesis of the Daleks
10. The Tomb of the Cybermen / The Daleks
Pertwee's Doctor and era were my least favorite of the first four, but Spearhead and Inferno are real classics. Really, that entire first Pertwee season is just fantastic (then it goes downhill hard from there). On the other hand, I love Hartnell's Doctor and especially when he's with Ian/Barbara -- way more so than so I would've expected going in -- but a lot of those stories just felt so-so to me. I watched a little under a dozen Hartnell episodes and think they peaked right at the beginning with those first two stories. There are certainly some great moments sprinkled throughout his later episodes, and they do have this nice 60s TV charm, but they overall feel not particularly great or particularly bad, just...fine.
And I know this is boring, but I have to go with the consensus that Baker and Troughton really are the best.
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Did you not like Season 8? I've just been watching through it myself (a lot of it for the first time) and really dug the majority of episodes, Colony in Space being the only real let down. I went in pretty apprehensive of Pertwee assuming him to be a bit of an insufferable gentry type but I actually kinda love his Doctor, mostly because he's just a dick to everyone in the same way as first series Capaldi was.
The Daemons in particular might end up being one of my all-time favourites, mostly because I love when Doctor Who goes 'Fuck it' and totally leans into its own camp.
I didn't see all of that season, just Terror of the Autons, The Mind of Evil, and The Daemons. I think the main thing for me was, and this will sound sacrilegious, is that I kinda don't like Roger Delgado's Master... something about his performance is just too campy, even by Who standards, to take seriously.
As for the episodes themselves - Autons I thought was a step down from what came before and was not a fan of swapping Liz for Jo (and I think tonally both this episode and the season as a whole is too silly compared to season 7); The Mind of Evil was alright but went on too long; and The Daemons I actually kinda hated. :lol It was my first Pertwee story and I thought he was being such a huge dick to everyone, about everything, that it overshadowed the rest of the story. I ended up liking Pertwee a lot more by the time I was done going through more of his episodes later on, so maybe I'd like this one more now that I've gotten a better handle on his Doctor.
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tough talk from Blader. The Daemons is considered a classic, probably the most beloved Pertwee stories there ever was (well- the cast wouldn't ever shut up about it). It's aged reasonably well for something from that year. You didn't watch Claws of Axos- which was, let's sat, ambitious- or Colony in Space- which I like a lot but suffers from a 4 part story padded into a six parter (in this case- too many reversals).
Something I rarely hear mentioned when people are discovering the classic stories- How, particularly from the latter Third Doctor eps onwards (though occasionally before), the Doctor wanders into a new situation (usually on an alien planet) and is immediately treated with hostile suspicion by people who he will ultimately help, often captured and locked up. Examples- Carnival of Monsters, Frontier in Space, Time Warrior, Invasion of the Dinosaurs, Death to the Daleks, Genesis of the Daleks, Revenge of the Cybermen, Planet of Evil, Brain of Morbius, etc- it's a long list. When you have 4-6 episodes to flesh out, it made sense for the Doctor to have to earn people's trust. When the series moved to self-contained stories in 2005, it didn't make much sense so RTD's psychic paper was such a brilliant device to letting the Doctor jump straight into the story. That said, I like watching Tom Baker dealing with hostile natives.
Something I rarely hear mentioned when people are discovering the classic stories- How, particularly from the latter Third Doctor eps onwards (though occasionally before), the Doctor wanders into a new situation (usually on an alien planet) and is immediately treated with hostile suspicion by people who he will ultimately help, often captured and locked up. Examples- Carnival of Monsters, Frontier in Space, Time Warrior, Invasion of the Dinosaurs, Death to the Daleks, Genesis of the Daleks, Revenge of the Cybermen, Planet of Evil, Brain of Morbius, etc- it's a long list. When you have 4-6 episodes to flesh out, it made sense for the Doctor to have to earn people's trust. When the series moved to self-contained stories in 2005, it didn't make much sense so RTD's psychic paper was such a brilliant device to letting the Doctor jump straight into the story. That said, I like watching Tom Baker dealing with hostile natives.
If you don't like Delgado Master then, yeah, the majority of Pertwee's run is going to be a real slog. For me, the Masters have two sliding scales; degree of campy evil and degree of being irrationally obsessed with killing the Doctor. Bad Masters are both, good Masters find a balance, which to me is what Delgado did, which is retroactively surprising given it was their first shot. All of his (incredibly idiotic) schemes are focused on world domination, and when the Doctor turns up he's more "Urrrgh, well are you going to help me or not?" rather than "MWAHAHA Doctor we meet again!".
As for The Daemons I'd definitely recommend a rewatch. Pertwee aside, a lot of the trappings felt very modern and unique for the time - the location shooting in a not-so sleepy village, the fake BBC3 (ha) show, the discussions about magic vs science, all the helicopter/Bessie chases. I also just kinda love conceptually that a children's TV show in the very early 70s had the Master throwing the horns and summoning demons by making sacrifices dressed in his satanic robes.
In terms of the Doctor being an arse, I think they strike the right balance where it's either done for jokes, or the show makes it clear that the Doctor is indeed being an arse by having the Brigadier or someone roll their eyes. It's the difference between the 12th Doctor treating Clara like crap in S8 (which I know a lot of people had a problem with but I thought was fairly funny) and the 6th Doctor throttling Peri. I think Pertwee does well at framing it as the Doctor just being extremely annoyed / tired at having to hang around with these humans constantly. It'd be like if everyone on Earth over the age of 7 died and you were stuck hanging out with toddlers.
I think it's worrying, tbh, as it suggests that the show isn't being seen as so important that it can stake its claim in the schedule and instead is at mercy of being shunted around.
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I think quite the opposite, to be honest- says to me that they're putting a lot of thought into where best the show fits as part of a wider schedule.
It's certainly not like this is out of character for the BBC- Strictly gets the same treatment year in, year out.
It's certainly not like this is out of character for the BBC- Strictly gets the same treatment year in, year out.
Does anybody in this thread also watch Strictly? It's really not my cup of tea at all because I only ever watch documentaries, scripted drama, and current affairs (and University Challenge). Is it a good programme?
Are you counting Twice Upon A Time? You didn't *hate* it, IIRC...
I am that fool. I'm a huge fan. There's no escaping the fact that it's pure light and fluffy shiny-floor entertainment for families with all the negative connotations you could take from that, but it's also very good pure light and fluffy shiny-floor entertainment for families.
It helps that I always accompany it with a bit of Monkseal to dilute the sweetness just a bit.
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I'm a sucker for Strictly, I must admit.
I have to have that caveat, else I'd have to junk The Doctor Falls, and that would be unacceptable.
Nah, because that has one Time Lord three times!
I have to have that caveat, else I'd have to junk The Doctor Falls, and that would be unacceptable.
There's only really a couple of dates that make sense if there's a Christmas special, no? I don't know, maybe the timeslot is a bit tricky to decide on still, but come on, they need to give the marketing push enough time.
The Time Lords are utter balls and RTD was absolutely right to do away with them and it was a disaster actually bringing them back, imo. Day of the Doctor should've been where it was left - them still gone, the guilt resolved but the lessons learned maintained, but a loophole to bring back any old Time Lord (or a new one) as an individual who somehow escaped.
The only thing the Time Lords would theoretically be good for was also replaced with the Shadow Proclamation (which Moffat even uses!) - a sometimes-good, somtimes-bad higher power the Doctor can run to for help or fight against depending on the circumstance... having them back full-on is just guff. Hopefully Jodie's Doctor never goes near there.
The only thing the Time Lords would theoretically be good for was also replaced with the Shadow Proclamation (which Moffat even uses!) - a sometimes-good, somtimes-bad higher power the Doctor can run to for help or fight against depending on the circumstance... having them back full-on is just guff. Hopefully Jodie's Doctor never goes near there.
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They don't need more than a couple of weeks for a publicity push- aside from 1 five-second teaser, series 1's promo cycle was well under a month, and that went alright!
I fundamentally don't think the publicity campaign needs to be longer than a few weeks. Keep your powder dry until you've got something substantial to show and so that the public don't get the chance to bored before the series is actually here. Series 9 had full-blown trailers for months before the series launched with the date slapped over them, and it did the show absolutely no good.
There weren't any Doctor/Romana/Master stories, were there? I can't recall any, but I'm not that great on that era.
Day of the Doctor was the perfect "ending" for Gallifrey. Then we had to see them again.
Absolutely loved Hell Bent. Moffat knows how to write Time Lords.
Jacqueline Pierce has died today after being diagnosed with lung cancer earlier this year.
As well as the key villain Servalan in the BBC space opera serial Blake's Seven, Jacqueline was well known to Doctor Who fans from her appearances in the original series and in audio dramas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Pearce
As well as the key villain Servalan in the BBC space opera serial Blake's Seven, Jacqueline was well known to Doctor Who fans from her appearances in the original series and in audio dramas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_Pearce
she totally owned the role of Servalan and was brilliant in it. RIP
I'd say he's one of the worst showrunners at writing them
Only really knew her in her Doctor Who work with Big Finish but she was great opposite John Hurt there
RIP
So... Cultbox reported that iTunes Germany accidentally leaked the release date for S11.
BBC sent them a cease and desist letter and made them remove it.
Unfortunately for them, they didn't edit the URL.
BBC sent them a cease and desist letter and made them remove it.
Unfortunately for them, they didn't edit the URL.
It's October 7th.
Probably not an action taken by the BBC itself. The airdates are coordinated, probably through the Worldwide division that doesn't use licence money.
(And yes, remember the BBC uses the TV licence money, not taxpayers' money, for its domestic operations.)
I know The War Games was mentioned up the page, but those last couple episodes were the only time the Time Lords have ever worked for me. Every other one of their appearances is just ridiculous.
Makes sense, since
the press date is Sept 24th and apparently those junkets begin two weeks before the show goes to air.
My post wasn't actually serious, more pointing out how ridiculous trying to hide an airdate is. But the licence fee has been classified as a tax since 2006, so...
Has BBC America announced their schedule for the next month or two? An empty slot on that would be pretty obvious.
Fantastic, I imagine there's some weird reason they're waiting to announce it, maybe a promotion with theaters or something.
Too bad I'll be on vacation when it debuts....
Sunday, 7th October confirmed:
https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1037309410408902656
(that was worth petty legal action wasn't it BBC)
https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1037309410408902656
(that was worth petty legal action wasn't it BBC)
Sunday is the wrong day for this show and represents a significant downgrade imo, but what can you do? I guess a lot of the audience is timeshift now anyway, but we've moved a long way from the RTD/Gardner edict of "we must keep the show as a staple part of the most important TV night of the week". Sarah Jane Adventures used to air on a Sunday. Christ.
So is the day of the week more important in the UK than US?
My initial reaction is it does feel like a downgrade. I'd like to be wrong - the Attenborough stuff has been Sundays and very family friendly, you've got Strictly results, big ol BBC drama (they go quite adult now though), Saturday nights are very different now that X Factor isn't a big deal really and Strictly is the only last bastion of Saturday nights being 'MASSIVE'...
but Doctor Who 7pm worked and it worked well. I know they don't want Strictly too late. Eeeh. Prove me wrong with massive numbers please.
but Doctor Who 7pm worked and it worked well. I know they don't want Strictly too late. Eeeh. Prove me wrong with massive numbers please.
I mean, a lot of stuff is different in the UK around TV just because of the nature of the license fee, the BBC as a publicly-funded, ad-free broadcaster, their remit, etc etc. Ultimately, Saturday is considered a really important day for the BBC as it's a very high day for prime-time, whole-family viewership. Saturday nights are when the big variety shows get put on - X Factor, Britain's Got Talent etc - or the biggest quiz shows, or whatever. For a while the BBC was really trailing behind rivals on Saturday nights, and then Doctor Who was actually their solution - it rescued Saturday nights for them and other rival channels commissioned very similar shows to Who like Primeval to counter it. Even the BBC started commissioning other shows, like Merlin, to fill the Doctor Who gap on a Saturday night when Who wasn't on.
Sundays tend to be either for the very light touch kids stuff earlier on in the day - like tea time - or the more adult dramas or documentaries later. The stuff in between is always sort of meh, or traditionalist stuff like antiques roadshow, so it's weird/interesting to see Who put in that slot. The counter-argument is that with time shift and online and iplayer being so big the day of the week matters less than it ever did, but it is something of a prestige thing. The big Saturday night shows are the ones that get Christmas specials, sorta.
Davies and Gardner used to say that it was key to keep the show present in the mind of the BBC as their most important weekend show. That's Strictly now, obviously, but before DW could at least claim to be on par with it. Being shunted to a different day removes that chance, but alas.
It is what it is, though. There is no sugar-coating it: whatever you think of the era (and I enjoyed much of it), Capaldi's time and even the latter half of Smith's time saw big drops to the live audience - disproportionately large, even, compared to the natural drop off in viewers thanks to more people shifting to watch online after the fact. So one understands why the BBC would reach this conclusion. Doctor Who used to be big enough that it could muscle into Strictly and push it later. It isn't any more. It's not the end of the world, but reversing this trend needs to be a priority for Chibnall... and maybe the new time slot will help. Maybe it won't.