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StoveOven

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
If some community threads don't get a lot of traffic, maybe it's just because people don't really want to use them. I don't see how making them compete with all the other threads was supposed to give them more visibility nor why this was a problem worth solving in the first place. There's a bunch of dead threads on the forum: so what? You can't make people engage in a thread they don't want to engage in. Of course you can always encourage or promote certain behavior, but I think the community highlights are a good enough way to surface that stuff and give it a little more visibility, and it's not like hangouts are hidden either. I see buttons for both hangouts subforums at the top and bottom of my screen. If someone wants to find those threads, they easily can.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
This was a good reminder of why I don't engage with many portions of the internet. Lots of people feeling self-entitled about a forum they have no ownership stake in, and due to said entitlement throwing a tantrum when something isn't done the way they would prefer. It's just a forum. Calm down and be rational.

Ah yes, the "caring about things is dumb and I'm intellectually superior to everyone because I don't care about anything" argument. Cool.
 

Hydrus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,298
This was a good reminder of why I don't engage with many portions of the internet. Lots of people feeling self-entitled about a forum they have no ownership stake in, and due to said entitlement throwing a tantrum when something isn't done the way they would prefer. It's just a forum. Calm down and be rational.
Everyone owns this forum, it's not privately owned like gaf was.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I'm not against change, I'm actually open to it. People feel they were left out of the process especially when many believed things were running fine the way they were and then suddenly large changes were being made in a short amount of time without any room to respond. The whole prominent members thing is also an issue.

But its still just a forum. Admins might make many changes the users don't all get to sit around and fill in a lot of polls for. I would agree this could have been handled better, but the change itself was just one of those things you can rollout and see how it goes. It took hours to change it back.

All that is being cultivated right now is a community which sees things as us vs them. You'll blow "your own" site up well before blaming it on ownership if you seek to blow it up. As I said some folks just need to chill. I said in the first topic I didn't think it was too great an idea, and again in the feedback topic after the change, but I didn't need to resort to conspiracy theories, claims the alt-right had taken over the mods, bringing up the Iraq War, saying this is a dictatorship, wondering why FedEx hadn't rang my doorbell at 3am to consult with me about a forum redesign and posted that I'm scared and angry over... what really amounts to some topic reshuffling.

If you want the admins and mods to speak more often and not act anxious of their own community, don't sharpen knives constantly and go right to over 9000 on the hyperbole scale. Some Alex Jones level nonsense been going on the last few days. It's already made this community a laughing stock on the usual sites.

Communication does need to be better, as does some debate about changes, but it's a 2 way street. If the community constantly acts like huge assholes those volunteering to be mods and admins will close off and resent the community. Happens all the time on forums. Look at how many mods this place has cycled through in less than a year.

All I'm saying to some folk is a take a breather before you post your input. Things often have a way of working out when it comes to design decisions and software. Things can always be reverted back or further improved if something is tried and it doesn't work.

Everyone owns this forum, it's not privately owned like gaf was.

No, they don't.
 
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riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,332
Seattle
This was a good reminder of why I don't engage with many portions of the internet. Lots of people feeling self-entitled about a forum they have no ownership stake in, and due to said entitlement throwing a tantrum when something isn't done the way they would prefer. It's just a forum. Calm down and be rational.
Plenty of people were rational and just posted their constructive thoughts as well.

The weird conspiracy theories were strange though lol

Anyways thanks for listening Nibel and others, this layout is perfect as is.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,046
This was a good reminder of why I don't engage with many portions of the internet. Lots of people feeling self-entitled about a forum they have no ownership stake in, and due to said entitlement throwing a tantrum when something isn't done the way they would prefer. It's just a forum. Calm down and be rational.

I thought we left GAF to get away from this bullshit sentiment. Which is good. because GAF still clings to the "My forums, my rules" belief and is dying a slow, pathetic death because of it.
 

Deleted member 34714

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,617
I wish I got to see the changes first hand but from all I am reading, I don't really mind much about change but I'm more bothered with the whole prominent members input thing that resulted in a change that got reversed after feedback from the other side of the community.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,055
I was never even aware there were new themes introduced, or that people have been discussing them. Just clicked on NightEra for the first time.... wtf, that's horrible. That isn't eventually getting forced on us, is it? I immediately went back to DarkEra Legacy.
 

Deleted member 2652

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,434
This was a good reminder of why I don't engage with many portions of the internet. Lots of people feeling self-entitled about a forum they have no ownership stake in, and due to said entitlement throwing a tantrum when something isn't done the way they would prefer. It's just a forum. Calm down and be rational.
if you have an issue with a post, report it.

otherwise this forum exists because of the community. their opinion is literally the content. you can't pick and choose when they're allowed to be valuable.
 

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,297
Implying that separating them is a good thing. That's the point. There is no reason NOT to separate them. A lot of people come here for escapism, politics dont need to be forced into everything because a few people seem to think no one consumes media outside ResetEra
You just said you weren't sticking your head in the sand but that's all you're talking about doing here. You're not being forced to click threads you know if they bother you that deeply.


Speaking of disenginous leaps in logic.
I don't think you know what that means.
 

bluehat9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,384
I was never even aware there were new themes introduced, or that people have been discussing them. Just clicked on NightEra for the first time.... wtf, that's horrible. That isn't eventually getting forced on us, is it? I immediately went back to DarkEra Legacy.

welcome to what 2.0 will look like. :(
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Ah yes, the "caring about things is dumb and I'm intellectually superior to everyone because I don't care about anything" argument. Cool.
Nice, putting words in my mouth. Very mature! When did I say anyone was dumb? I said there were plenty of people acting in an irrational manner of something as trivial as a forum layout. If you think that topic is worth insulting another person over then that says all about you that I need to know.

Everyone owns this forum, it's not privately owned like gaf was.
No, we most certainly do not all own this forum. I have no equity in ResetEra.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
if you have an issue with a post, report it.

otherwise this forum exists because of the community. their opinion is literally the content. you can't pick and choose when they're allowed to be valuable.
There's a difference between sharing an opinion and being an asshole. The former is fine, the latter is not and there were quite a few people falling in the second bucket over this change which is ridiculous.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,411
You just said you weren't sticking your head in the sand but that's all you're talking about doing here. You're not being forced to click threads you know if they bother you that deeply.



I don't think you know what that means.

Again, you're assuming that every person only consumes media from this website. Stop.

Wanting a separate section in ResetEra isnt sticking your head in the sand. You are making ridiculously stupid judgments and leaps of logic that dont make any sense.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
This drama seems similar to the Spiderman puddle drama.

*sound of a foghorn*

whooooooooooooo caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaares?
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,130
Toronto
Has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe people don't post in hangouts because they aren't interested in any of the topics there?
That's not true for everyone. Many people are just used to staying in Etc or Gaming and don't venture outside of those to even know which threads are in the two Hangout sub forums. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people ask a question in the Canadian Gaming thread and someone responds that they should ask in X hangout thread and the person responds they didn't even know that thread existed. I never go to Hangouts myself because I already have the ones I care about in my Watched Threads list.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
lmao at what happened. I actually had no idea things were changing until I couldn't access the site earlier, then I got a couple minutes in before they went down again.

But from catching up and my couple minute experience, I'm still lmao. Hoo boy, not looking forward to meta forum drama. Things were said and done and undone unfortunately to keep that shit smelling for a looooong while yet.
 

Deleted member 45

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
338
deltaplus

My biggest concern going forward is that I think many don't feel like we have an active avenue to discuss situations and provide criticism or feedback with the staff. I think this situation and thread is a perfect example. The forums came back up and there was a single message saying everything was reverted and then multiple topics were locked when attempting to complain or provide feedback over the situation until this thread popped up and apart of that was the very poor messaging in that post about 'prominent members' which has some people concerned if not outright upset despite the intent clearly not meant to do so but it was an exceptionally poor choice of words and made the situation even worse. Then you have yourself here answering questions in this thread alone when this is clearly something I think all of the staff should be willing to talk about not just you alone.

Part of the problem is a general lack of transparency, something that was a key thing that was promised wouldn't be an issue when these boards were first launched. I don't want to go into a ton of situations but new mods spring up from out of no where, others are demoted out of no where, and then you had that one Feedback thread before which had a member of the staff (I don't even remember who) making one hell of a post that made the entire staff look bad and threatened that the person they were responding to that they would be the reason the thread got locked when the entire point of the thread was feedback. That thread did get locked and has since been either removed or at least moved to a place normal users can't see it. That is a massive lack of transparency, even if it wasn't your intent the removal of that thread looks like you are trying to hide the poor actions of one of the staff members instead of just dealing with it out in the open.

I can understand if the situation was more complicated then that but by shutting down that person, that thread, it looks to us like what you weren't really looking for was feedback, you were wanting praise and when all you generally got was criticism you guys just said 'fuck it' and closed the whole thing down and haven't made a statement about it since as far as I'm aware. How is anyone suppose to trust the staff and their decisions when things like that happen? Why should we be encouraged by whatever changes you guys try and make for this board when we don't see the transparency that you guys yourselves were suggesting the staff would have from the very beginning? I have felt like there should have been big topics like this one before about the previous thread and other things but personally I didn't feel like risking a ban by making one and any others I had seen pop up were immediately locked like the ones that popped up today before you jumped into this thread. I shouldn't have to worry about being banned when I'm trying to provide criticism in a polite manner but here we are and if you don't get why I and many others feel that way the look at the actions being frequently taken and then you might start to see part of the problem.

As for a solution... I think we need a board for feedback and suggestions that has all members of the staff involved in and engaged in. If a topic is about something that staff member covers they should be posting in that topic. No I'm not saying you need to listen to people just yell at you endlessly but if someone is writing a post like mine that I think people would consider well thought out I would expect the staff to be involved in one way or another in responding to it. I also think taking community suggestions on ways to change the board would generally be a better response then just forcing the changes on everyone with only a few days warning. I'm sure a lot of the community has suggestions on various things they'd like to see for these boards going forward but I don't feel and those I've talk to don't feel like we have a way of really telling you guys that. I'm not saying this is a perfect answer but I think if we had a place where everyone could discuss things like this then we could come up with at least a better answer then none at all.

This is an excellent post and I want to thank you for taking the time to write out something so thoughtful. I'm going to try to address this as a whole but if I miss something, please feel free to follow up.

You're right, we haven't done our best at providing avenues for feedback and that's our failing. I'll be the first to admit that we haven't handled everything perfectly, but I want to assure you that we take these situations as learning experiences from which to improve - hence me being in this thread to answer your questions and work towards opening up communication. For this thread, I decided to be here to give others some time off and some rest (Labor Day in the US and a long maintenance night) but even so, there are plenty of staff who want to jump in to answer your questions. I'm actually holding them back to try and give y'all a little bit more 1-1 time and answer as much as I can.

Regarding the community feedback thread, you're right again - it wasn't handled well and we can do better. I'm not happy with the way it went and I know I'm not the only one on staff that feels the same way. What I want to do is talk about how we're going to improve in that regard. Bear with me, part of this is still in discussion and in flux. Part of what we learned from previous threads is that we need a better way to get feedback from users. Threads and polls are great for specific situations (Who's going to win X? Yes / No questions) but honestly, they're really hard to sort through and collate feedback from. I know because I've tried and it's an incredibly long, exhausting, and error-prone exercise. I agree with you - we need a better way of keeping lines of communications open between us and we need to be able to sort through the mounds of feedback we get so that we can get to the golden nuggets at the core. Some ideas we're floating around - sending out surveys to the userbase on specific and/or general topics, a dedicated feedback inbox, discussion panels, staff Q&As, to name a few. Again, these are ideas that we're thinking of that could help, but we won't know until we try.

What we've learned from the restructure and from 1.5 is that we need more lead time for users to get accustomed to changes. We want to go through things more slowly, more in-depth, and with more time and opportunity to comment and you'll be seeing the discussion around 2.0 progress in this way. Sometimes we get caught up trying to deliver something that we're so excited about ASAP - we're going to take more time in this regard.

I'm hurrying a little bit because my plane is about to land and they're asking me to put away my laptop, but please feel free to follow up on any questions you might have on this in this thread.
 

Fomortiis

Member
Jan 2, 2018
284
I didn't even get to see the new forum layout lol (I think I glanced at the front page this morning before I went to work)
 

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
I didn't even get to see the new forum layout lol (I think I glanced at the front page this morning before I went to work)

Me neither. I saw it was offline, caught up on a lot of sleep and it was back to 'normal' when I checked again.

I don't particularly like change or think there needs to be any, but I'm just one vote. If it happened, it happened...I wouldn't have revolted.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,055
"We prefer to receive this type of feedback privately, so the thread has been closed to further replies."

Just saw this mod response in one of today's locked threads on the subject. I hope that's a rogue comment and not official site policy, because quite frankly, that's crap.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,661
jYWmV.gif

giphy.gif
 

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
The average Era user is not very mature, I'm not sure what you expected.

This update tanking was a self-fulfilling prophecy regardless of how good/bad of an idea it actually was. People deliberately shitting the place up until they got what they wanted and not giving it a chance is not how progress is made, regardless of how poorly the Admins handled this.

Pretty much , they should have just stuck with it and test it out for a while, a few hours is nothing. Especially when a lot of members slept through this or were at work/uni. You can't really test something like this in a few hours.

Also, the admins and mods aren't perfect, this is a young site and mistakes are going to be made, mistakes are always going to be made, which is perfectly normal. So many people are acting like the staff killed their dog. Such a thankless job.

So much drama over forum categories.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
I meant this isnt like Gaf where evilore was the sole owner and got to make whatever decisions he wanted and profited off of it. Last I checked, wasn't this place started by and for the former gaf community and no one makes any money off it?
There are ads man. Someone is making money, sure it might not be a lot (and it may just cover costs), but in no way do you or I own this website.
 

Altazor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,150
Chile
My 2 cents: I'm far from a "prominent member" here - I barely divulge information and I'm more of a lurker that posts occasionally than someone who spends a lot of time in certain Communities.

Which means I don't really care about "Communities" that much - I get why others do, and that's fine. I kinda get the rationale behind the big change from earlier today but I agree that there were several failures in communication between the staff and the community (lower-case c) before implementing it - even if the feedback from (the majority of?) non-prominent members was negative I think that should've been a red enough flag to at least postpone the plan and actually consult the wider community (lower-case c, again) instead of a small handful of people.

Anyway, I'm glad you at least were fast in rolling back the change when you saw it wasn't working out as intended, but I think it shouldn't even have gotten there in the first place if the negative feedback was outnumbering the positive one. Even if I personally didn't mind it (no strong opinion one way or another regarding the split between Entertainment and Etcetera - I can see the reasons behind such a split, though), it doesn't mean the majority of the active community members were OK with it... and that's where you guys jumped the gun, IMO. Lesson learned, I guess - please be clear and transparent, provide actual opportunity for feedback and don't close threads if such feedback is mostly negative. I don't think that negative feedback comes from a bad place, or is done out of trolling... even if sometimes certain people can (and have done) take shit too personal and outright insult others. There's always one. But that doesn't mean you can disregard valid criticism, and definitely you shouldn't go "we totally listen to your feedback guys!" and then completely ignore it with your next big decision.

At the end of the day, it's an internet forum by/for enthusiasts - not the government of a small nation. We shouldn't take stuff like this too personal, I think. The staff is responsible for this blunder, yes, but let's make sure to stay within the margins of actual civil discussion instead of accusing them of shady shit without evidence.

As an aside - I'm in favor of not separating politics from the OT board, but I think maybe a lot of "Trump said stupid shit on twitter!" threads could be confined within one big "stupid shit Trump says" megathread. I consider such (non) news to be different in entity to what the orange clown does as POTUS and can have meaningful repercussion (SCOTUS picks, ongoing investigations, and so on).

EDIT: oh, I forgot - I support the idea of making a separate section at the bottom the same page of the OT forum for Communities (if the forum software allows something like that). I think that's a neat idea. I also think (again, if the software allows it) we could have "tags" so people could literally filter threads they don't want to read by topics (tags) instead of putting the OP on Ignore. Or maybe that's too cumbersome to be implemented correctly, dunno.
 
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Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
If you think this was bad just wait for what happens if the DarkERA (Legacy) theme gets taken away.

The only theme that makes the forum readable.
 

Deleted member 45

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
338
Just an FYI y'all, my flight just landed and I need to run to an event. I'll be back later tonight and I believe Nicole will be around in the thread as well later. Thank you all for the good feedback and for the discussion.

Love,
Deltaplus