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Oct 25, 2017
6,927
Rereading the "Back to Normal" post, I'm frustrated it reads as a non-apology template that so many on this board have mocked in the past. I wish it was a "we screwed up, we should have listened to feedback, we're sorry, we'll be more mindful in the future". Instead, there's a burden of "it was not an easy decision" to reverse all of this feels like it is putting the blame on the users of this site. The admins and moderation teams, particularly the moderators, seemingly got a huge amount of backlash and crap tossed at them, and that's totally unwarranted. People should apologize to them, and be given the opportunity to do so, but the official stance of the admins here should be a much clearer apology to all of us than the one we were given in that Back to Normal post.
 

Deleted member 11093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,095
Marvel: Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover.
Me:

For one brief incredible moment, both states of ResetEra existed at the same time.

jzKv65Z.png
 

jawzpause

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,280
If you want to take everything at face value, a large part of it is due to a lot of prominent OT communities dying off and they want to find ways to revitalize them.

If you want to be cynic and suspicious, it's some of that and it's a way to maximize clicks and to appease those who hate poltiics and want it pushed as far away as possible.

It's really about where you want to fall. But I will say, despite my feelings about, there are real reasons they attempted it. I really don't think it was just a 'let's do it just to fuck shit up' or anything like that. I see no proof of that.
Why is it a problem that prominent OT communities are dying off though?
 

Deleted member 45

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
338
I'm wondering why it's allowed to insult the mod team and insinuate their bigots in not so subtle terms?

It happens often enough without any bans handed out that I've made note of it. I have my own issues with moderation here, and quite a few posters find the time to vent their frustrations in good faith. But the many who don't go below the belt often and get away with it, honestly makes me not take any moderation here seriously. Especially since the posters in question tend to start shit with everyone knowing full well there won't be repercussions coming their way.

Saw that mods were replying here so thought I'd ask about this, as in spite of my own issues with moderation you are a very much a diverse mod team and go out of your way to be inclusive in my view. So when I see this not being addressed by you, I don't see the point in participating in other threads because of said vocal and volatile minority. And I assume more widespread participation is what you were looking for in what is now a failed update.

This is somewhat unrelated to the topic at hand but I'll do my best at answering this. It's an incredibly fine line. On one hand you risk getting calls of censorship, on the other hand we understand that sometimes people are upset and don't voice their feedback in the best way. At the end of the day, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. In extreme cases, we do action some of these posts, but again it's a case-by-case thing.

Why won't mods here let you have a regular topic during the on-season when things like gaming OTs get pulled out of the hangouts section to the main forum when they get released on a new console (eg Hollow Knight)? deltaplus

I remember discussing this at some point for certain types of threads, but I forget where the decision fell on this. What I would encourage you to do is to reach out to mods / admins (you can always message me and I'll get back to you asap) when you see a thread that you think would work well in Etc for a given season. We discuss pretty much every PM and I can guarantee you I read every PM, although my responses may be a bit delayed due to IRL things and work.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Two of those are about ideology whereas Trump is just political news.

They don't fufill the same purpose in a discussion and you can clearly see that when entering those threads. Very few Trump threads foster long form discussion because it ultimately revolves around "Trump is a disgusting human being". There's nothing to talk about, nothing to argue because most of the people here rightfully think that.

However in the other two you can analyze how a particular franchise or publisher are doing with representation, the merits of Batista, or Disney's stance etc...
Alright, that I can see. What I don't see is which of those threads would count as political enough to be cordoned off?


As someone who was asked about it too, this idea was actually sold to us a way to help the smaller communities since people don't really go to hangouts(just use the watched threads option) and the search function is not very good. That's actually the main reason I thought the change was a goo idea.
Yeah! And if they can figure out a way to do that without screwing up everything else then I'll be so on board with it.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
If one thing is clear, is that the admins and mods do not want to hide or separate politics discussions in this forum. To think otherwise is just bad faith. Naive, misguided, poor thought out... sure, but not intentional.

We are talking about a group that has women, minorities and LGTBI people, a lot of them actually. About people that has 0 tolerance to hate speech and the altright. Hell people that even got harassed (and even old mods doxxed). To think that they want to pander to altright people is frustating and I would say, insulting (I know it's not your intention, just saying if someone thinks that way).

Resetera is never going to leave it's political nature behind, no one should doubt that.

Well, for one, I never said anything about them pandering to the alt-right. That's just jumping off a bridge in Tennessee and landing on the moon.

And I explicitly said even if it wasn't the intention. I don't know if it was or not, but the obvious path would have ended up there.

This happened?? Though I guess I shouldn't be so incredulous, poe's law and all that

It was a weird change, but that they listened so speedily is good I guess.

For what it's worth, as someone who participated in this discussion more or less from the beginning, I never saw anyone say that. I saw people say that it was a victory for the alt-right, because one of the goals of the alt-right/GGer is to segregate politics from popular culture as much as possible. So maybe that's what they're referencing, but never saw anything about any admin or mod being alt-right.

The craziest thing was really the Iraq war thing. Which...yeah.

Yeah.
 

Luchashaq

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
4,329
I have seen numerous users state they consider representation a political topic, which would mean that too would be segregated away in the subforum

Weinstein trial thread? Too political for entertainment.

Whitewashed cast of a movie? Too political for entertainment section.

Actor rapes someone? Too political.

Famous black person murdered by police? Too political.
 

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
I'm getting way more replies than I expected, and I don't want to come off like I'm ignoring y'all- actually dealing with family shit at the moment. That was what I wanted to say and I appreciate the polite responses.
 

large_gourd

Alt-Account
Banned
Jun 29, 2018
984
The change seemed useless, but at least they changed it back.

- they told people it was going to happen
- they explained why they thought about doing it
- they had discussion about whether or not to do it
- it got done, sucked, and got changed back specifically because they're open to discussion/change

I just don't know what else people would want here. Should there be a thread where they apologize to users for trying to change it? Should people step down? Should there have been some sort of vote where all the tens of thousands of users pick how the forum is run?

I'm taken aback at the fact this is as controversial an event as it is.

We're talking about a MILD restructuring of navigational structure to help boost some parts of the forums that some people think are under-seen. It got a negative reaction and they decided to change it back. I don't know if the changes were a good idea - seemed a little out of nowhere to me - or if changing it back was a good idea - didn't really give anybody a chance to see if they liked it beyond initial 'oh no it's different' reactions.

My hunch is that sticking with the 4 forum structure is simple and easy and community thread people know where to go for their threads. Yeah Etcetera is dominated by Trump threads and stuff like that at the expense of other subjects but oh well, that's life right now.

I mean jeez, calm down folks. Not everything is something you need to have a strong opinion about. We're talking about forum administration here.
 
Oct 27, 2017
720
Considering things like blatant homophobia get off with 3 day/1 week long bans regularly on here you should take that as a better reason to not take moderation seriously

Well, here's an example for ya Nick Nehidnyk

Implying the mods are homophobic, with the addition of implying I am. When in no way did I say anything about homophobes getting off scot free, nor would I celebrate such a fact.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
As someone who was asked about it too, this idea was actually sold to us a way to help the smaller communities since people don't really go to hangouts(just use the watched threads option) and the search function is not very good. That's actually the main reason I thought the change was a good idea.
I think this is why it changed back once people caught on that ignoring the people who made those threads was the way to fix it.

I would be shocked if anyone helped discover new community threads during that 5 hours due to the new layout alone though (and not from the stickied list of OTs)
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Also having fun in political threads can get you banned under a "Taking light of a serious situation" comment from a mod.
One of the few devastating random news threads on EtcetEra that were actually locked by mods was the one where a Polar bear had to be killed when he posed a threat to a cruise ship's passangers I think north of Norway (cant remember where exactly). It was like "I dont know what to do with this information... should we not kill the bear and let it eat a human?" It became nothing but replies saying "this sucks" and thankfully it was locked. But I'll bet if that had even something to do with global warming or nebulously connected to the Trump administration Im sure it would've stuck.

I'm just exhausted of nothing but bad and depressing news over there.
 

Namyu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
I remember discussing this at some point for certain types of threads, but I forget where the decision fell on this. What I would encourage you to do is to reach out to mods / admins (you can always message me and I'll get back to you asap) when you see a thread that you think would work well in Etc for a given season. We discuss pretty much every PM and I can guarantee you I read every PM, although my responses may be a bit delayed due to IRL things and work.

Thanks for the reply, here's to you ryseing
 

Francesco

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,521
"i'm so tired of having to ignore political threads!"

are you people serious
Honestly, the reason I come here is to get the stress of the day off + talk about games and entertainment.
Coming in and seeing people screaming over the latest Trump shit or some other political, US-focused rage just adds to the exhaustion of the day.
I like this community and people are free to just say "then don't come to this site." To which I answer that either things change or I will.

Just because I don't want to give clicks to some ass-slapper doesn't mean I want to listen to others complain all the time.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
2,180
England
After reading through the relevant threads from Friday, last night, and today, I think this experiment has revealed a fundamental misunderstanding between a good potion of the membership and the Admins/Prominent Members™, about what this forum is and who it serves, and that these two groups are talking right past each other.

There's a large portion of the community whose primary interaction with the forum is through EtcetEra and maybe a couple of OT threads. These members view EtcetEra as its own community. These are the folks complaining about the forum split, having to go past a bunch of OTs to get to the content they care about, and ultimately putting a bunch of people on ignore so they can interact with their actual community again.

On the other side are the admins, who through all of their posts repeatedly state that they consider OTs to be the foundation of the forum and they tie the health of these OTs to the overall health of the forums, so they're taking actions to promote these OTs. In this instance, the action they took ran right into a large faction of users who don't see things the same way.

And the most frustrating thing to me as I read all of these posts is that a lot of people aren't picking up what the Admins are putting down: that the OTs are the thing that take precedence, and that the Admins either aren't aware of, or are dismissive of, the community that has coalesced around EtcetEra.

Which is fair -- they pay for the maintenance and upkeep of it, so they get to decide what their forum is and who it serves. I would just counsel that a community isn't static, and that it begins changing and transforming after the events that led to its creation, so perhaps recognizing that fact and trying to understand it might actually go a long way toward promoting a healthy & vibrant forum. After all, you inherited this community from somewhere else, and that community can just as easily decide to move on from here.

This post is bang on the money from my perspective.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
Why is it a problem that prominent OT communities are dying off though?

I guess it's partially because some feel because they were ones who helped ResetERA gather its community they need to do as much as possible to not have that happen...? I guess. I honestly don't know. I'm not really part of any community so I can't really speak to that aspect.
 

Lonewolf

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,900
Oregon
It'd be up to members that support Trump to be able to vocalize their support for Trump and be strong/thick-skinned enough to defend their position on supporting Trump without resorting to disingenuous/tireless/circular/trolling/crypto-ist arguments. They'd have to be interested in having that level of discourse and also not retreating/taking their ball home because they were hurt by being "dogpiled". They'd have to also be interested in having the discussion end in an unsatisfying fashion provided they don't get someone to go "hey, you're right" or something.

Just like basically every other discussion ever about politics or otherwise that was had here and in previous versions of this forum through like...2004.

"Man Enters Lion's Den Wearing Meat Shirt, Complains About Being Eaten By Lions"


I'm not surprised this choice was reverted, there was a reason the Hangouts forums were made to begin with. If they want to direct members to them, perhaps a sticky thread with a list of links on the respective main forum would have been a better choice than lumping them into the main forum again.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,749
Is it possible to add website built filter?
People could just filter threads with word Trump or something if they are bothered by them.
 

Sensei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,590
deltaplus Why are some OTS allowed to exist in ETC while others can only be hangout.
why are some OTs allowed to exist in gaming side while others can only be hangout

the incessant nintendo OTs singlehandedly justify me having the thread blocker script. move them to hangouts where they belong so that new news can get new threads in gaming side. and theres one for Xbox and one for Sony too that ive had to block. they need to go imo
 

Cochese

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
6,960
One thing you can do is have all threads start in the main forum (don't even allow a new thread button in Hangouts), then when they reach a set amount of posts in a thread they get moved to Hangouts, as by then they will have established themselves. 500 posts, 750. 1000. Whatever. So any OTs that aren't ever really popular can bob to the top occasionally in the main forum until they gain a good footing. deltaplus
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
My suggestion is that the staff re look at what it's trying to accomplish and how it goes about doing things, I have zero doubt that the staff from mod to admin mean to do well but some of the things done have been a bit worrisome. The constant locks and little explanation, the blow back from certain threads like the Cyberpunk one where people disliked a lot of the warnings and bans, it's happened in other threads as well. There is no denying there are some people wanting to stir up trouble but the way the mods backed right off on some things due to overall poster response has been telling at times. There are times it feels like the staff feels out of step with the forums and that's what causes people to lose faith in the powers that be. It can not be due to push back from the posters on matters that communication truly happens or stifling of post stops.
 

Flow

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,340
Florida, USA
One thing you can do is have all threads start in the main forum (don't even allow a new thread button in Hangouts), then when they reach a set amount of posts in a thread they get moved to Hangouts, as by then they will have established themselves. 500 posts, 750. 1000. Whatever. So any OTs that aren't ever really popular can bob to the top occasionally in the main forum until they gain a good footing.
This is a great idea
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,737
800 years ago, 20 OTs came together and founded the ERA Government. The descendants of these OT creators, the Prominent Members, live in the holy land mERAjois. For a commoner to even defy one will carry the cost of a Admin from mod headquarters descending to dole out punishment.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
Well, here's an example for ya Nick Nehidnyk

Implying the mods are homophobic, with the addition of implying I am. When in no way did I say anything about homophobes getting off scot free, nor would I celebrate such a fact.

Implying homophobia gets off too easy is not an implication of homophobia.

There's a real issue with the leniency of the modship here in regards to a lot of stuff. Not just homophobia, sexism, racism, etc. and a lot of communities have been voicing those issues for a lot, and a lot have left because of it. You've coming into the conversation at the ass end and making a lot of assumptions.
 

Axisofweevils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,853
I'm sad I only got to see the new forum for 5 minutes. During that time, some interesting threads appeared. For me, it seems like it was a ton of work for little gain.

Introduce divisive change.
Don't give people time to adjust.
Revert.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
The events of today made me very sad and extremely reminded of mod behavior in a different place during a different tumultuous time. I'm glad at least one thread was allowed to exist to discuss this.

If any moderators are reading, please remember the core values Era was founding on -- transparency and actually interacting with the community as a whole.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
One thing you can do is have all threads start in the main forum (don't even allow a new thread button in Hangouts), then when they reach a set amount of posts in a thread they get moved to Hangouts, as by then they will have established themselves. 500 posts, 750. 1000. Whatever. So any OTs that aren't ever really popular can bob to the top occasionally in the main forum until they gain a good footing. deltaplus

I like this. Isn't that what basically happens in Gaming?
 

Grim

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
London, UK.
I don't get why some communities feel so self important.

You're on a message board with more or less what can be considered a gated community. That means less people by default. Then the fact that it's primarily seen as a gaming forum and the amount of people with a broad range of interests drops even further.

Niche community OTs are going to die, just as niche game OTs die.
Mods don't need to intervene in any sort of attempt to keep them "alive".

The thread that kept an index of community threads was good enough, if people want to participate in a discussion with people who have the same interests as them they will seek it out. The monthly community spotlight sticky was also great.