just wanted to say i'm so glad a mod has this position on the issue
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Israel's Bibi is far-right scum using nationalism to justify genocide - Lets talk about this
- Thread starter duckroll
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I want to be very clear when I say that, while I will not speak to other members of the staffs' beliefs, mine is in no way a minority opinion. It is about as far from that as possible.
If there are exceptions, they must be judged on an individual case by case basis. But considering a core, inescapable tenant of Nazism is anti-Semitism, there would honestly pretty much have to be some element of self-hate, mental disorder, or delusion for such an exception to apply.
If there are cases where this policy should have been employed but was not, well the honest explanation there is the staff are all humans with human limitations, and mistakes or oversights to one degree or another are simply inevitable.
In Roseanne's case there is literally a picture of her dressed as Hitler putting gingerbread men in an oven... I think she brought those comparisons on herself.
See my previous reply.
Now, let's please move back to the topic of this thread, which is worth far more discussion than Resetera's rhetorical policies.
These really do not feel like legit questions, honestly.
I mean, they are, since they'd violate said policy, which shows that it's kinda limited, but we had a mod answer this already right afterwards, so it's fine.
Sounds like Gaza to me.
You're lecturing people to go learn, yet you think they're only being ejected from their homes. I'm not making that comparison because it's not helpful and ends up derailing, but I would suggest you go and read up what living in Gaza is like.
I don't want to get into the whole argument here, but personally I'd have thought it'd be easy enough to talk about what a vile, fascistic, butchering piece of shit who deserves to be erased from the face of the Earth Netanyahu is without needing to bring Nazis into the conversation.
Thanks for being straight with us on the matter though, Matt. It's appreciated.
Thanks for being straight with us on the matter though, Matt. It's appreciated.
You seem to be late, I never once did say they were "only" being ejected from their homes. Just that the expelling is the most blatant action Israel is doing, that I believe most people can tie to genocide.
I already clarified last page.
The mod themselves said "any" which is why people wanted clarification.
What do you call thousands of innocent people getting killed last Gaza war? It is genocide no matter how you spin it.
i think the hesitation [from some people] to call it a genocide is only because it's by a people who not long ago were themselves victims of a massive and horrific genocide. i think some people just can't bring themselves to accept that those people and their children are now either responsible for another [ongoing] genocide, or are sitting and doing nothing as their government and representatives are doing it.
I still don't see how antisemitism being a core tenant shields individual shit human beings from Nazi comparisons. It's a type of bigotry. How does that differ from the bigotry that the Israeli government expresses towards Palestinians? It's still completely analogous. "Because they don't hate themselves? Are we really worried about these awful mass murder apologists' self esteem?
The presence of antisemitism is not a prerequisite in calling literally any other group a Nazi here.
Mods just don't want to deal with the controversy or to have to moderate the nuance between which comparisons are fair and which are not. Easier to ban discussion.
Probably for the best since the user-base is unable to navigate the nuance between fair and unfair comparisons. As with other banned topics, the user-base is unable to discuss it without things spinning wildly out of control.
It really sucks how much control the Israeli Government has not just over it's citizens but over the people outside it. Their propaganda techniques are really something...
it's really not worth derailing every thread with discussions about that comparison and why it should be allowed or banned. i'm sure those who don't like people to talk about the horrible things israel does really enjoy it when the discussion is derailed and goes into that direction, and knowing people's sensitivity towards that rule they'll use it as a tool to derail the threads themselves. it has happened in this thread, it'll happened again. it's best to just move on and talk about what's important.
oh absolutely, its scary and frightening. most recently, i noticed it when two musicians (lorde and lana del rey) cancelled concerts in israel. for weeks their instagram comments were filled with hateful comments towards palestinians and the musicians, and also straight up propaganda, and by who? by teenage girls and boys mostly. it's clear they've got a well-oiled machine that teaches their kids from a very young age that what they do is right, that the bad guys are the palestinians, that they're not responsible for what happens to them, these are all things they learn from a young age so by the time they're adults it has all been normalized and seems obvious. that's why they react so much to people calling out israel on anything, some of them genuinely believe israel is the good guy in this whole conflict, and they're shocked how someone outside of israel may have a completely opposite opinion and a completely opposite view of the conflict.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
Some of the people who would become founders and leaders of Israel were literally fascists who tried to form an alliance with Nazi Germany and fascist Italy against the British.
Israel's government is a fascist, apartheid state and that ideology goes back to its founding. It engages in rhetorical and political tactics reminiscent of many past and present authoritarian regimes who engaged in ethnic cleansing and/or genocide. I find the tone policing over which fascist regimes we're allowed to compare to this particular case of ethnic cleansing to be hypocritical garbage double standards, but whatever.
did a double take at Hamaas being the name of a weekly publication by the Lehis.
and they and their actions seem to be celebrated in the current state of israel...
israel's claim to be a peaceful and democratic nation falls apart so easily in so many ways, it's laughable.
So in your opinion, Milo is closer to being a Nazi than Benjamin Netanyahu?
I'm not saying what you're doing is intentional, but it's pretty clear that there's a lot of American pre-programmed knee-jerk protection of Israel going on here. It's subconscious, but also very dangerous, it's what allows pro-Israel and pro-Zionist views to flourish even in liberal settings.
But is it really worth banning people for 3 days. I understand what you're talking about but those bans were way too harsh
We have warnings for a reason.
I was banned for a week because I celebrated the death of a war criminal, sometimes I feel like the mod policies are moving further and further to the right just as the rest of the world is, it's pretty disappointing.
And the guy that says things like this only get one week:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/us-holds-back-65m-aid-to-palestinians.16851/page-3#post-3376961
it's not ideological, it's respectability fetishism. the effect is a shift to the right but these people don't really believe in anything, they just want to keep the peace.
That respectability somehow only applies to white westerners for some reason though.
See this tweet:
I doubt this would be allowed here (and it shouldn't), but only white war criminals are afforded respectability. And that user was banned from posting on twitter shortly after making that tweet, it was made to mock the reaction to John McCain's death.
I guess that with Milo is allowed not because he's nazi-like but because he explicitly sides with actual Nazi ideology
Netanyahu not only sides with them, but he literally funds Nazi groups.
It's not about their self-esteem. I have explained the thought process behind the policy. You can disagree with it (and it doesn't even necessarily speak ill of you to do so), but that is the policy, it will be enforced, and it is not open for public discussion at this point, especially not in this thread. Let's talk about more serious matters.
Thank you both for trying to understand where the policy comes from, and not making assumptions as to our "true motives."
Again, no "protection" of Israel is happening here. Look at this thread, look at its title, look at its content. No one has been banned for expressing their anger, disgust, or sadness towards Israel's actions.
I understand this situation makes you (and countless others) mad, and that desire leads to an understandable need to lash out, but we are not your enemies, and we are not responsible for or condoning the unconscionable treatment of Palestine, or preventing the discussion of that basic fact.
I am not going to discuss any individuals bans. Bans lengths are based on the content in question, a user's previous infraction history, their seeming knowledge that a rule is being broken, and other factors. If you have any other questions on specific bans, please PM an administrator.
This is a thread about Israel and Palestine, not about you. If you have a problem with your own ban history, PM an administrator. This thread is not to serve as your soapbox.
I am going out on a limb here to try and engage with this community in as open and honest discussion as I can, but this forum's policies still apply. Do not continue to complain about Resetera's policies, bans, or other issues in this thread. You will not get what you want out of it, and eventually this thread will have to be closed like the others, which I absolutely do not want.
Please continue to talk about the current Israel-Palestine conflict. That is what actually matters in the real wold, and it deserves your undivided attention.
It's like if North Korea had learned to mobilize their propaganda to have a wider global reach.
You avoided my question though, I appreciate the mods finally opening up about discussing that policy in particular, but what exactly allows people to call Milo a Nazi but not Netanyahu?
It's a real shame that the Israeli government has linked themselves so closely to the Jewish people that any criticism of the regime is shouted down as antisemitism.
The population in Israel is not a hivemind, there are many Jewish people who oppose the current policy and are for a two state solution. The kind of talk exhibited by Netanyahu is the kind of terrorist propoganda you can't buy. It's absolutely invaluable as fuel to motivate Islamic state and other groups who want to claim they are defending Muslims against Israeli and western aggression. Moreover this rhetoric guarantees elections for the likes of Hamas.
If this thread is to stay open, let's try avoiding Godwins law and let's just call his words what they are: Facist talking points. Israel is slipping into a Facist state that has no respect for people of different faith, culture, race or nationality. Rather than be an example of acceptance, human rights and openness, it is becoming yet another Facist state. It's like a man who has been brutalized all his life and when he's finally escaped his bullying and abuse he turns around and starts victimizing others. It's heartbreaking to see.
I hope enough negative pushback comes against him and Israel turns things around.
The population in Israel is not a hivemind, there are many Jewish people who oppose the current policy and are for a two state solution. The kind of talk exhibited by Netanyahu is the kind of terrorist propoganda you can't buy. It's absolutely invaluable as fuel to motivate Islamic state and other groups who want to claim they are defending Muslims against Israeli and western aggression. Moreover this rhetoric guarantees elections for the likes of Hamas.
If this thread is to stay open, let's try avoiding Godwins law and let's just call his words what they are: Facist talking points. Israel is slipping into a Facist state that has no respect for people of different faith, culture, race or nationality. Rather than be an example of acceptance, human rights and openness, it is becoming yet another Facist state. It's like a man who has been brutalized all his life and when he's finally escaped his bullying and abuse he turns around and starts victimizing others. It's heartbreaking to see.
I hope enough negative pushback comes against him and Israel turns things around.
or if north korea had the absolute and unconditional support of america.
That is a cool project answer but it doesn't work for me. But it clear that no one is going to be real .
The thinking has been explained. I'm sorry if you disagree with it or don't understand it, but that is the end of it for this thread.
Again, if you have an issue, PM an administrator.
This is the final warning I am inclined to give in this thread. Please do not further derail this important discussion.
Its obviously that the community has some serious issues with this policy. Has been discussed by the mods at least? Or has it been decided back at some point and no discussion is to hapoen again?
Well probabky wont get an answer anyway and given the post above i withdraw my question.
Well probabky wont get an answer anyway and given the post above i withdraw my question.
i mean you may as well just disallow critical threads on israel at this point. the comparison is more than obvious, people will point it out and get banned, and then it will always devolve into others complaining about the mod policy.
As an arab, shit as a Palestinian, I'm offended by anyone who dares to compare the Jewish community with nazis . What is happening?
no one ever did that in this thread, why are you offended?
Israel encroaches on Palestinian land, kills them for any reason, and puts them in ever increasingly smaller reservations.
I wonder if people who say Israel is not committing genocide on Palestinians have the opinion that America did not commit genocide on Native American tribes.
I wonder if people who say Israel is not committing genocide on Palestinians have the opinion that America did not commit genocide on Native American tribes.
What is happening is that you've misinterpreted some posts.
Anyway, it seems like this has been one of BDS's strongest weeks.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...led-out-of-israel-s-meteor-festival-1.6436242
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...led-out-of-israel-s-meteor-festival-1.6436242
No one did, but I think I'm starting to see the admin's pov with this post. The reaction to it can be a mess.
User banned (1 day): Ignoring repeated mod posts
Some genocides are clearly different and must be discussed differently than every other genocide since the mid-20th century has been discussed, guys. I don't see why you can't understand that the Israeli government's genocidal actions against two different peoples, one of which are in fact jews themselves, are a special case.
can you post the list of artists? i'm not able to view the article, says i have to be a subscriber.
and yeah. BDS is growing more and more, which is fantastic. while not as effective as government sanctions, it's clear they get so mad over stuff like this, since propaganda and their image outside of israel is so important to them. seeing how more and more people are no longer buying into their image of "peaceful democracy in middle east" bullshit.