Gather around for your daily The Last Jedi thread.
Pop Culture Detective is an excellent and progressive film and media critic.
Start a fan war lasting 10 months about me if old.
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Pop Culture Detective - How The Last Jedi Defies Expectations
- Thread starter Super Corpse Soldier
- Start date
Gather around for your daily The Last Jedi thread.
Pop Culture Detective is an excellent and progressive film and media critic.
Start a fan war lasting 10 months about me if old.
Literally just finished watching this. I really enjoyed this video. Even gave it a like to counter the inevitable flood of dislikes it's going to get. Made me enjoy the best Star Wars movie even more.
Pop Culture Detective is great. I agree with all the points in the video. I'm not what I'd call a Star Wars fan (I pretty much just get dragged along to see all of them and I;m sick of Star Wars, honestly), but I genuinely enjoyed The Last Jedi for the most part because it took risks and was more than just dumb fan service. I get that some people genuinely dislike TLJ for legitimate reasons but it's clear that most don't like it because they're sad manchildren that feel offended about their stupid views being challenged.
This video makes so mch sense and I have often in this forum seen people argue about those very points brought up.
When it's laid out like that, I can see why certain men got so angry about this movie in particular. And I didn't even consider the fact that Finn's suicide run wouldn't have worked, so I suppose that's a case of me holding onto cliches too.
yeah I've noticed people doing that a lot
It was my initial reaction in the heat of the moment too, but then I took a second to think about it.
Why WOULD it work? Just because it usually works in other movies? The movie both tells us and shows us that the suicide run isn't going to do anything but get Finn killed, but since we're used to character sacrifices being an automatic death blow to the bad guys, we get mad when Finn is prevented from doing it
People go "Rose is stupid for saying you should save what you love when that's what Finn was doing," but the point is that no he wasn't. he was letting his (albeit justified) hatred for the first order cloud his judgment. That's why his last line before the aborted sacrifice is specifically, "I won't let them win."
Great video. And I agree with pretty much all of his points.
I appreciate the movie a bit more now. Unfortunately that still does not help me love or even just like this movie more. It just left me completely cold on an emotional level. And I agree that my excessive familiarity with common movie tropes is partly to blame for that. But the movie has flaws on its own, and I think its main problem is that it does not communicate what it is doing to its audience in a way that is understandable enough (on an emotional level).
IMHO this video just illustrates what a spectacularly bad idea it was to make one of the most mainstream movies possible this subversive. It was almost inevitable that a considerable part of the audience would not "get it" and react angrily.
I appreciate the movie a bit more now. Unfortunately that still does not help me love or even just like this movie more. It just left me completely cold on an emotional level. And I agree that my excessive familiarity with common movie tropes is partly to blame for that. But the movie has flaws on its own, and I think its main problem is that it does not communicate what it is doing to its audience in a way that is understandable enough (on an emotional level).
IMHO this video just illustrates what a spectacularly bad idea it was to make one of the most mainstream movies possible this subversive. It was almost inevitable that a considerable part of the audience would not "get it" and react angrily.
This, so much. It turns out that "subverting expectations" isn't always a good idea to build a movie around, especially when you decide to do so with a similar mentality to Donald Trump and the presidency.
who's fault is that?
anyways yeah great vid on the subject, def spins a few thoughts in my head (caught some but not all the themes he did) and I'm pretty pumped to do a re-watch.
I'm in two minds about that. On the one hand clearly that part of the audience is to blame, because they did not put enough thought into what they just watched (and/or have become complacent and way to used to tired and harmful tropes).
But I think the movie should have been even more obvious about what it was doing, if the directors goal was indeed to change the minds of its audience. Because this is clearly a mainstream movie aimed at the largest possible audience.
And such an audience is inevitably full of "normal people" who will not pay attention to every single line of dialogue, so they will miss some or most the details laid out in the above video. And clearly a lot of people did not get it.
So I think you can easily do this kind of subversion in an indie movie where your audience is limited and will appreciate it, but if you try to pull this off in a mainstream movie, you either have to make it so completely obvious that even the last moron gets it, or you just have to live with the backlash of those who did not.
Edit: To clarify: I have no problem with the message of the movie about trusting women in power. On the contrary, that's completely awesome and very relevant and necessary. I just have a problem with how this message is conveyed in the movie by subverting tropes that a general audience is intensely familiar with and thus expects to play out in a certain way. This just needlessly muddles the communication and is ripe for misunderstandings.
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I'd like it more if it was roughly the same story but had a few changes to the narrative structure and the presentation.
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Great video , the film still does have it issues , ala abandoning the plot threads of the previous films
How the new big bad goes out is extremely , phasma
The detour to the slave city was unneeded
unsatisfying and tbf the male heroes did feel way too incompetent at times
But he drew uo great points and i hope it catches fire on the internet and helps redefine and strike a new discourse about the film
How the new big bad goes out is extremely , phasma
The detour to the slave city was unneeded
unsatisfying and tbf the male heroes did feel way too incompetent at times
But he drew uo great points and i hope it catches fire on the internet and helps redefine and strike a new discourse about the film
I came to realize that in the end Rose was also protecting who she loved, and she felt that they still had a shot at winning even without his big sacrifice. If you take it as a line that explains her action rather than one meant to condemn Finn, it makes more sense I think.
Rose's line never bothered me, cheesy I guess but whatever, nothing compared to some prequel stuff(which I enjoy a lot of) Later on I just thought it was hilarious when she moved in to kiss him while the explosion from the death laser was going on in the background. That's something I'd see in a dark comedy
Really enjoyed this video. The last 10 months of Star Wars discourse has really drained my enjoyment of the film but this reminded me why TLJ clicked with me in the first place.
I'd be shocked if this thread made it past two pages.
Wonderful analysis. I think this video illustrates that time will be kind to TLJ.
You didn't even watch the video did you?
You didn't even watch the video did you?
No, they didn't. TLJ haters will do anything to get a snipe in. Just ignore them.
That was a well done video. I had not really considered how well the film subverted male power fantasy tropes.
Definitely some ready doing that.
Wouldn't mind seeing those that atcually discuss their opinion without nearly as much hyperbole shoe up though.
Yea, there have been myriad TLJ analysis videos but this is the first one in a while to offer fresh insight I hadn't even considered before. Really enjoyed it.
OP
OP
The writer can have Finn's suicide run be successful with literally the flick of their pen. All the stuff telling us Finn isn't going to make it looks exactly like any other movie pulling a similar maneuver while trying to ramp up dramatic tension.
A Last Jedi where Finn saves the Resistance by buying them time looks completely identical to one the actual version of the film
A better way to do that scene would be to have Finn's try to suicide attack, and instead show his speeder completely stall out and leaving him stuck in the salt and in the path of the laser. This would make Rose's desperate attempt to knock his speeder out of the path of the laser feel less like she sabotaged the only chance the Resistance had to stop the laser.
This is a great video I'm sharing with friends as a counter point to why I acknowledge the plot flaws of the film that people like rlm address, but still think TLJ is an amazing film and put it #2 behind Empire for best in the saga.
This combined with the RLM video do a good job of summing up my complicated feelings on the movie.
It subverted expectations in cool and interesting ways, but it also had tone and structure issues that kept me from fully engaging.
It's on Netflix streaming, so I'll probably give it another watch soon.
It subverted expectations in cool and interesting ways, but it also had tone and structure issues that kept me from fully engaging.
It's on Netflix streaming, so I'll probably give it another watch soon.
great video and honestly this was plain to see since day 1. the rose bashing and holdo bashing was so transparent it was infuriating. to this day people drag their feet about holdo and poe with absolutely no self awareness as to why. people wanted fucking admiral ackbar to sub in for holdo because he had a funny meme decades ago. pure silliness.
Because they hate the film for many valid reasons. Like Holdo's hair and clothes. Why watch the video when you can just do a drive by snipe like Remington and get away with it.
*yes I'm being sarcastic*
From the sound of it, this'll be better than the shitshow rlm video. Looking forward to it.
The Last Jedi is great. Some bits of the execution could have been better (like the cannon firing right after Rose saves Finn, instead of quite some time later), but those are minor quibbles.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Trolling, personal attacks and inflammatory accusations on another member after coming back from a ban for the same thing. History of infractions.
It's certainly going to be better. Hopefully, you are less of a bigot than before.
Why aren't posts like this given warnings? They're drive by, low effort, not related to the video, trolling, etc.
Or, you could, you know, watch the video instead of doing a lazy post like this just meant to insult people.