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We Ben Reilly talking about puddles: Spider-Man controversy gets high numbers of upvotes on Reddit
- Thread starter Nirolak
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That's such a narrow minded way to think about it. A downgrade would imply that the graphical capabilities of the engine have actually been reduced. In this case, it's just one very specific scene that has been changed. All of the effects (reflections, most notably) that are present in the 2017 image are still in the game. This is an open world game with hundreds of locations to look at; the fact that one specific location, from one specific angle, has been changed in a way that maybe makes it a bit less visually striking does not mean that the game as a whole will actually look any worse.
what's up with all the weird nintendo fans on this site recently. the amount of trolling coming from people who only post positive things about nintendo consoles is really weird
maybe, just MAYBE, people have looked at more media from this game than just one screen cap of a compressed youtube video. maybe.
There is no such thing as a "visual downgrade". It's personal/artistic preference. If the core technical aspects of the game are unchanged, you can replicate any look by changing the lighting conditions, weather etc.
It's no different to a photomode. We pause said game thinking we have a great shot. Look closer and the way the light falls makes the face look like something out of the PS2 era while detail on clothing is lost. A few minutes tweaking lighting, colour warmth and such and you have a photo that some will claim is a bullshot.
It's even worse when you have a game that uses plenty of visual effects to make it look great in motion. But worse in a static screenshot. Anyone who's played Insomniac's Ratchet & Clank will know that game can pass for a Pixar quality movie. And no doubt Spider-Man will set new graphical standards for it's genre.
Looks...better? It used to look like a big oil spoil happened out of nowhere, not rain puddles.
*shrugs shoulders*
*shrugs shoulders*
Your trolling is becoming more obvious by the post
For me to accept that Spider-Man has received a downgrade, I would have to believe that Insomniac and Digital Foundry are being dishonest. Never mind the proof of a visual upgrade (gold build) in this very thread.
So, I do wonder who between the two of us is in actual denial.
All you're saying is that the first picture looks more atmospheric/striking, and you prefer that look better. That isn't a "visual downgrade"; that's personal preference
Trying to classify an artistic decision as a "downgrade" just diminishes the notion of what a graphical downgrade is. It makes as much sense as me saying that The Raid 2 was "downgraded" because the final movie didn't have the insane gang shootout or the escalator execution that were shown in the teaser trailer
So someone disagreeing with you means they're trolling? That's sad. Oh well, if you're happy with a clearly downgraded game more power to you.
All you're saying is that the first picture looks more atmospheric/striking, and you prefer that look better. That isn't a "visual downgrade"; that's personal preference
Trying to classify an artistic decision as a "downgrade" just diminishes the notion of what a graphical downgrade is. It makes as much sense as me saying that The Raid 2 was "downgraded" because the final movie didn't have the insane gang shootout or the escalator execution that were shown in the teaser trailer
At this point people don't want to learn and it seem downgrade has become i like the old visually style better .
Instead of what it really means when it comes to tech .
This is stupid the human eye will naturally like an image with more contrast and saturation that's just life.
lol some of the comments in this thread are beyond absurd. Can we just take the "wait-and-see" approach rather then criticizing people (with potentially less insight then others) for interpreting one picture to be better then another. You'd think people were tryin to discover the cure for cancer in here the way they are picking apart tiny details and going into the intricacies of game development.
Here is the reality of the situation. The game looks worse now for a significant amount of people based on a couple grainy images. Whether or not its the case that its been downgraded or if they've gone in a different art direction is irrelevant. It looked one way, and now it looks an entirely different way....some people preferred the other way and regardless if no "technical" downgrade took place, a "visual" downgrade took place for these individuals regardless of how much justification/insults you try to throw at them. Additionally, all these assumptions are being based on just a handful of pre release images being compared to another handful of pre release images. IMO nobody is going to know if the changes (if any actually exist) will effect the game in any significant way, positive or negative, until the game is out in the wild.
In other words.... those of you screaming "downgrade" sound stupid and those of you screaming "guess you don't know how games work" sound equally stupid.
Here is the reality of the situation. The game looks worse now for a significant amount of people based on a couple grainy images. Whether or not its the case that its been downgraded or if they've gone in a different art direction is irrelevant. It looked one way, and now it looks an entirely different way....some people preferred the other way and regardless if no "technical" downgrade took place, a "visual" downgrade took place for these individuals regardless of how much justification/insults you try to throw at them. Additionally, all these assumptions are being based on just a handful of pre release images being compared to another handful of pre release images. IMO nobody is going to know if the changes (if any actually exist) will effect the game in any significant way, positive or negative, until the game is out in the wild.
In other words.... those of you screaming "downgrade" sound stupid and those of you screaming "guess you don't know how games work" sound equally stupid.
Yeah, so here's the thing: professional outlets analysing the game's media, and actual developers on the game, and posters from this board, have shown the exact same assets as those that were removed/'downgraded', looking and behaving the same, just in another location in the game world. I've played the game and they are still there, just a couple of blocks away.
The graphics are just as good. The assets are just as good. The engine hasn't been changed except to make lighting softer and more realistic - which fans demanded and Insomniac fully agreed with.
A puddle was literally just moved to a different location.
Feel free to call it a downgrade. But alterations are literally not a downgrade.
And the more you keep calling it that with pictures laid out to show exactly how you're wrong, the more it seems like you're just trolling.
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Explain how it is then, rather than drive-by trolling.
How do I know you're trolling? The post that basically exposes what it is that you are conveniently ignoring to call it a "downgrade", is the one you conveniently ignored.
- The developers have given a valid explanation as to why it's not a downgrade.
- Digital Foundry agrees that it's not a downgrade.
- Gameplay videos out there prove that it's not a downgrade based on this scene in question alone.
Disprove all of these points and you might be on to something... but probably not.
That's called liking one thing over the other. "A visual downgrade took place for these individuals" is an insane way of trying to spin the very normal and common thing of subjectively preferring something over something else.lol some of the comments in this thread are beyond absurd. Can we just take the "wait-and-see" approach rather then criticizing people (with potentially less insight then others) for interpreting one picture to be better then another. You'd think people were tryin to discover the cure for cancer in here the way they are picking apart tiny details and going into the intricacies of game development.
Here is the reality of the situation. The game looks worse now for a significant amount of people based on a couple grainy images. Whether or not its the case that its been downgraded or if they've gone in a different art direction is irrelevant. It looked one way, and now it looks an entirely different way....some people preferred the other way and regardless if no "technical" downgrade took place, a "visual" downgrade took place for these individuals regardless of how much justification/insults you try to throw at them. Additionally, all these assumptions are being based on just a handful of pre release images being compared to another handful of pre release images. IMO nobody is going to know if the changes (if any actually exist) will effect the game in any significant way, positive or negative.
In other words.... those of you screaming "downgrade" sound stupid and those of you screaming "guess you don't know how games work" sound equally stupid.
We know for a fact that the game's effects, lighting, shadows, etc have been improved; it can be clearly seen in side-by-side comparisons of the same scenes. So to keep calling this a "downgrade" instead of "I liked the way the first scene looked better" is ridiculous
lol some of the comments in this thread are beyond absurd. Can we just take the "wait-and-see" approach rather then criticizing people (with potentially less insight then others) for interpreting one picture to be better then another. You'd think people were tryin to discover the cure for cancer in here the way they are picking apart tiny details and going into the intricacies of game development.
Here is the reality of the situation. The game looks worse now for a significant amount of people based on a couple grainy images. Whether or not its the case that its been downgraded or if they've gone in a different art direction is irrelevant. It looked one way, and now it looks an entirely different way....some people preferred the other way and regardless if no "technical" downgrade took place, a "visual" downgrade took place for these individuals regardless of how much justification/insults you try to throw at them. Additionally, all these assumptions are being based on just a handful of pre release images being compared to another handful of pre release images. IMO nobody is going to know if the changes (if any actually exist) will effect the game in any significant way, positive or negative, until the game is out in the wild.
In other words.... those of you screaming "downgrade" sound stupid and those of you screaming "guess you don't know how games work" sound equally stupid.
I rather challenge the downgrade talk then to just wait and see.
Good thing people can just crank all that shit on their TVs if they like that look.
Every copy sold will be a FU to the detractors and haters. Games go through changes but this is like an hive mind gone nuts. Gamers ain't shit sometimes. The salt will flow freely soon let their ideology die of a sodium overdose.
So you believe everything people tell you who may have conflicts of interest and anterior motives? Good to know.
If there was any doubt that the Spider-Man review thread is going to be crazy train central, this thread put that all to rest. I'll never understand the lengths people will go to and the goalposts they'll move to justify some agenda they aren't going to be swayed from in the first place.
lol some of the comments in this thread are beyond absurd. Can we just take the "wait-and-see" approach rather then criticizing people (with potentially less insight then others) for interpreting one picture to be better then another. You'd think people were tryin to discover the cure for cancer in here the way they are picking apart tiny details and going into the intricacies of game development.
Here is the reality of the situation. The game looks worse now for a significant amount of people based on a couple grainy images. Whether or not its the case that its been downgraded or if they've gone in a different art direction is irrelevant. It looked one way, and now it looks an entirely different way....some people preferred the other way and regardless if no "technical" downgrade took place, a "visual" downgrade took place for these individuals regardless of how much justification/insults you try to throw at them. Additionally, all these assumptions are being based on just a handful of pre release images being compared to another handful of pre release images. IMO nobody is going to know if the changes (if any actually exist) will effect the game in any significant way, positive or negative, until the game is out in the wild.
In other words.... those of you screaming "downgrade" sound stupid and those of you screaming "guess you don't know how games work" sound equally stupid.
You've made a major miscalculation. A lot of the people who "think" it looks worse will do so weather you show them an upgraded or downgraded shot. They aren't so much thinking as hiding behind their right to hold any opinion for any or no reason. The majority of this is trolling.
You mean "ulterior"?
- What ulterior motives does Insomniac Games have, a developer who has only ever told the truth about this game, and exhaustively corrected fans on Twitter who don't know better?
- What ulterior motives does Digital Foundry have other than to deliver some of the best and most exhaustive tech analyses on the latest video games and consoles?
- What ulterior motives do recorded gameplay clips have?
- Where are the "conflicts of interest"?
You still haven't proved anything you've said.
I believe Digital Foundry, who has the least reason in the world to lie in this case as this would hurt their credibility, when they say that the two photos shown do not depict a downgrade.
They said to look forward to Tuesday as they have a video incoming.
I have heard of muddy vision, but puddle vision???I fixed it
When what a person is telling you is backed up by evidence and sound logic, you should to. That goes for life in general, not just downgrade claims
Yeah, I don't mind talking about downgrades but using a compressed image to prove a debunked point doesn't add anything to the discussion.
Then why are so many in this thread engaging it ? your just shedding more light on the fact that the game could potentially be downgraded likely feeding into what these "trolls" want. It just doesn't seem like people would be getting this defensive if the suggestions were as absurd as some are trying to make it appear. Like i said, we will have to wait and see how the game looks on the 7th.
like this, what is your motive? do you work for insomniac and take personal offense to the suggestion that its potentially downgraded? if so that makes sense, but otherwise you just sound like a blind fanboy.
I mean your whole argument stems from the assumption that the viewer has some sort of understanding/appreciation for game development and that things like improved lighting shadows etc. matter to them. You say that we can clearly see improvements in side-to-side comparisons, but some people might not see it that way and what you interpret as an "improvement" can easily be interpreted as a "downgrade" by someone with less understanding and varying preferences. I wouldn't argue that we know for sure whether or not any of the additions or changes are "improvements" or "downgrades" because the game doesn't come out until the 7th (I believe) and all this conversation is so speculative my head feels like it might explode.
So you disbelieve everyone that has any access to the product, and therefore are able to confirm or deny these claims, instead choosing to believe there is a massive conspiracy in the works? What is wrong with your brain?
I mean, we can say for sure since comparisons clearly show improved lighting and shadows, improved reflections in buildings and windows, improved hair, more details on the street, more effects (ie sparks, smoke, Shocker's energy around his gauntlets), and so on.
The issue is people using a single compressed screenshot from a single scene as proof that there's a downgrade, while there's a wealth of evidence from recent footage to the contrary
Hmm moved that lol into a spoiler section instead of out in the open. Looks like a downgraded comment to me!
Spiderman is not about this specific scene. Assets from this scene can get moved to make other parts of the game work better together overall.
The. Goal. Is. Not. To. Make. This. Scene. Perfect.
I don't even give a damn about the game (wake me when it's a puzzle game or a RPG with a female MC in reasonable clothing), but this criticism is completely ridiculous.
In fact, it reminds me of completely clueless RPGMaker "developers" that would do game dev by this philosophy you're demanding here. Every scene was made "perfect", completely cluttered, filled with a dozen photoshop effects, so everything looked like a perfect screenshot, as if the goal of a game was to make great screenshots, instead of a great game. And a single map that took five minutes to play took half a year to make.
So it's exceptional and this thread is indeed an embarrassment? :P
Now i just feel like your intentionally misrepresenting the side of those who have suggested there is a visual downgrade by implying their whole argument is based on a single image. Thats like fox news level spin.
What is it based on then? This whole thing literally started because of one side by side image lol
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