Who is a game developer, what is game development?

Anybody that does anything technical (or design work) that feeds into the actual product. People who contribute to supplementary material like manuals, marketing and trailers are not game developers.

Game developers are people who contribute to the making of games. I think marketing would be people who sell the games.

Pankratous said:

Anybody that does anything technical (or design work) that feeds into the actual product. People who contribute to supplementary material like manuals, marketing and trailers are not game developers.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Welp, beaten to the punch with the very first post.

Anyone that helps ship a game.

Pankratous said:

Anybody that does anything technical (or design work) that feeds into the actual product. People who contribute to supplementary material like manuals, marketing and trailers are not game developers.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Nice to see a thread wrap up so quickly

Chronospherics said:

To clarify your opinion. Someone in QA who identifies 100s of issues, which are then fixed by someone else, are they game developers?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

They are testers, in the same way that the testers at my work who test my application packages are not application packagers.

Chronospherics said:

To clarify your opinion. Someone in QA who identifies 100s of issues, which are then fixed by someone else, are they game developers?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I say yes, for professionally paid positions. I obviously don't count random players submitting bug reports.

Anyone involved in the work to help ship a finished product are game developers.

Art, QA, Tools, Animator, Marketing, Audio, etc plus the obvious things like programming and game design.

They all worked together to help create, release, and ship a video game aka game development.

E: Marketing might be more controversial to include, but the work they do in terms of box art, trailers, and other such things all contribute to the final shipped product.

Unknownlight said:

I say yes, for professionally paid positions. I obviously don't count random players submitting bug reports.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

When I worked QA, I never considered myself a "game developer." Doubt many of my coworkers would have, as well.

I think they're obviously essential to the production of a game, but I feel like "developer" has a more specific meaning.

FluxWaveZ said:

When I worked QA, I never considered myself a "game developer." Doubt many of my coworkers would have, as well.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Well, fair enough. From my side as a player uninvolved in all of this, I would've considered you guys part of it.

Pankratous said:

Anybody that does anything technical (or design work) that feeds into the actual product. People who contribute to supplementary material like manuals, marketing and trailers are not game developers.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I've written manuals for the games I've also developed, as well as written trailers and marketing copy.

Your statement is a bit too blankety for the many hats we can wear in game development. It's not nearly as cut and dry, especially in smaller studios.

Game dev is all animation, baybee.

Why is a games developer?

Most of those roles would give someone a good idea of how game dev works. Or at least the basics of a dev cycle.

I'm a designer at a AAA studio, here's my take on it. Anyone who's hands touch the product is a developer. That is to say, anyone who creates content or tools that facilitate the creation of that content. So, Developers= Programmers, Artists, Animators, Designers, Audio. Non-Devs= Producers, Research, Marketing, QA. Concept Art is a bit of a gray area since their work isn't literally in the game. But I'll include them with the devs since their work heavily influences the production art and game design.

Chronospherics said:

Well, I think QA are often disconnected from other game development roles. Just because they don't feel that they're game developers doesn't mean they aren't.

Not to mention, not all QA are equal. FQA don't touch the games code, but some technical QA roles include actively going into the game and making adjustments.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The latter sounds different from the norm, and certainly what I'd associate with being a developer. For me, I was part of a third-party company specializing in QA with many different developer/publisher clients. I feel like the word "developer" has the connotation of closeness to the product and at least some oversight on creative direction, however minor. It was hard to feel that kind of relationship to the games we were working on there, at least for me. Possibly part of the reason I never thought of myself as a developer, in that context.

Ishmae1 said:

I've written manuals for the games I've also developed, as well as written trailers and marketing copy.

Your statement is a bit too blankety for the many hats we can wear in game development. It's not nearly as cut and dry, especially in smaller studios.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I would say in those instances you, as a developer, also took on non-developer tasks. That you were a developer who did those things, does not make those things directly related to development.

I would say anybody who does anything related to creation of code or in-game assets is a game developer.

As someone who's been on both sides of the fence, QA are 10000% developers. They have more of a fingerprint on the games than you'll ever realize. People who never interact with the product at all, like marketing or whoever....... that's a little iffy.

Chronospherics said:

Marketing often influences not only the way that the game is marketed, but what game you're making to begin with. If the marketing team helped determine that the next Assassins Creed should be set in Ancient Greece, wouldn't you say they leave a significant impression on the final product?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That's actually a pretty good point. I should clarify that I don't view the marketing campaigns built around an existing title as "development", but the marketing folks that help hand down decisions that are then baked into design, that sort of is development to me. And often, those jobs are performed by the same people.

Chronospherics said:

Marketing often influences not only the way that the game is marketed, but what game you're making to begin with. If the marketing team helped determine that the next Assassins Creed should be set in Ancient Greece, wouldn't you say they leave a significant impression on the final product?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I don't consider "leaving an impression on the game" the bar for "game developer." No more than I'd consider those who participate in market surveys to be "game developers" even if their answers shape the game that is output.

Developers, to me, implies those who actually created the product directly. Not just those who influenced it.

Let's give another example: If I'm talking about making a cake, I'd consider the "baker" of the cake to be the ones who cooked it and put the ingredients together, not the person who said "i want a cherry cake" or the person who bought the ingredients.

Chronospherics said:

Marketing often influences not only the way that the game is marketed, but what game you're making to begin with. If the marketing team helped determine that the next Assassins Creed should be set in Ancient Greece, wouldn't you say they leave a significant impression on the final product?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

If you put a poll on twitter asking fans what type of game they want you tackle next, they aren't developers if you follow that.

If an angel investor drops $5 million on your studio and says "make a game about shooting people in the face", they aren't a game developer.

If the accountant at H&R Block says that my studio only has X dollars available per year, and I know that X dollars is only enough to make a walking sim instead of a immersive sim, the H&R Block accountant isn't a game developer.

Depends on how you look at it. It's like asking who in the medical industry is a doctor.

Chronospherics said:

I think your example is quite distinct from mine. People that contribute to a survey are unpaid, contribute very little time, and none of their work leads to actionable change in the game without the involvement of other members of staff.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I don't consider pay to be a barometer for what is or isn't a developer. For one, there absolutely are paid surveys, and I've participated in them. I don't consider participating in paid research to be "development." for two, there are programmers and artists who work for free, and they absolutely are still developers despite not leaning financially on their work.

You seem to be conflating professional with developer and they're not synonymous. Developers develop, as in create. I don't think being a professional in the games industry makes you a game developer. You'd be a professional marketer, a professional analyst, a professional whatever, not necessarily a professional game developer.

elenarie said:

Anyone that helps ship a game.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I agree with this, and this extends even to disciplines like product management and MTX.

Colloquially, though, "the devs" usually just refers to the engineering and art/UX disciplines.

Krejlooc said:

I would say in those instances you, as a developer, also took on non-developer tasks. That you were a developer who did those things, does not make those things directly related to development.

I would say anybody who does anything related to creation of code or in-game assets is a game developer.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yup. And the rest of the team are game creators. Edit: maybe. Not sure I even agree with myself. It's been a long day.

Noogy said:

Depends on how you look at it. It's like asking who in the medical industry is a doctor.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Um... is it? I think "who is a medical doctor?" is pretty cut and dry.

Chronospherics said:

I'm just curious about what people on ERA think on this topic. I don't want to bias the conversation by presenting my own opinion in the OP.

Programmer, Animator, User Researcher, Game Designer, Quality Assurance, Audio Designer, Concept Artist, Production, Marketing, which of these are game development roles, and which, if any, are not? Obviously there are many more roles than those present in this list.

What defines whether you are, or aren't a game developer?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I had a different view at some point, and still think that some roles like marketing really depends on their involvement on the game (good marketing are game developers and have an impact on the game), but nowadays, I'd say only financial/HR/IT and similar aren't developers. That said, they are still really important for a game production.
I'm saying that as a developer btw.

What would a creative director or narrative designer fall under?

I generally agree that a game developer is someone who builds or works with actual code, but I don't know if it's that useful anymore to distinguish it outside of hiring talent because of how multi-faceted game development has become.

Designers and programmers to me. The others don't necessarily are strictly about game development.

Yea wouldnt consider a QA person a Developer. Just as much as I wouldnt consider a Focus/Play Tester a developer. You help the development, but you didn't develop anything.

Chronospherics said:

Participating in something which features a paid incentive does not mean you were paid for your work.

But sure, I don't agree that pay is a single barometer for whether someone is a game developer, which is why I expressed several reasons why I don't feel survey participation makes you a game developer.

Survey data is just a resource for game developers to use. Without analysis and interpretation, it doesn't do anything. It takes a team of user researchers to interpret the data, communicate the findings, and translate the information into an something actionable. Additionally, an individual survey has no impact on the games design unless the findings corroborate the findings from other participants.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I don't think those who develop resources for game developers to use are game developers. I wouldn't consider the team behind LUA to be game developers, despite being one of the most used tools in game development. I wouldn't consider the Visual Studio support team to be game developers, despite being a resource game developers lean on. You're not really clarifying anything with your responses, I understand well the role of marketing, your argument is an argument that they are professionals and that's never in contention. They develop analysis ancillary to the actual game itself. They develop marketing, not the game. Game developers can be influenced by that analysis, but the analysis is not the actual development of the game.

Very easy question -- ask yourself what do these teams actually, literally make? As in, what is the end result of their day to day work. Further, ask yourself what is a game? A game, to most I'd wager, is a binary application that is interactive that displays video and audio elements to the player.

What does a programmer make? Binary applications. What does an artist make? Video and audio elements.

What do marketers make? Analysis of market wants. What does QA make? Analysis of binary applications.

You see the difference? One actually develops the things we call a game, the other develops ancillary analysis that can influence those who make the game, but is not actually the creation of the binary application or art.

Peltz said:

Um... is it? I think "who is a medical doctor?" is pretty cut and dry.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

"Who is a healthcare provider?"

MisterBear said:

Yea wouldnt consider a QA person a Developer. Just as much as I wouldnt consider a Focus/Play Tester a developer. You help the development, but you didn't develop anything.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

What about SDETs and white/grey box testers?

Chronospherics said:

What if you make a game with the drag and drop toolset in Game Maker Studio?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The order of the drag and drop elements in game maker studio IS code. I don't see how you can possibly argue that it's not. Code is not limited to characters in a text document. It's all bytecode deep down below. Unless you're writing in some microprocessor specific instruction set through bytecode, you are always writing using an abstracted interface layer. That drag and drop toolset in game maker studio is every bit as much an abstracted interface as C++ syntax is.

elenarie said:

Anyone that helps ship a game.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

DISAGREE

justiceiro said:

Designers and programmers to me. The others don't necessarily are strictly about game development.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

AGREE

Septimus Prime said:

What about SDETs and white/grey box testers?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I've never heard of white/grey box testers. You mean Designers?

A game developer is anybody who actively works on the construction of a game.

I wouldn't call people who only contribue concept art to a game, game developers, unless they are also involved in the actual creation of the game, programming, level designing, writing the story and what not. I'd call them concept artists.

Marketing is definitely not part of game develpment in my book. They don't contribute to the creation of a game, just its distribution.

Same with game testers, unless they actively work on the game.

MisterBear said:

I've never heard of white/grey box testers. You mean Designers?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

white/greybox testers are ones who provide feedback on level design in the early stages of prototyping, before assets are created because the creation of assets provides a degree of inflexibility.

I'd consider people who are stictly white/grey box testers to be QA, personally. Although, typically, those who are white/grey box testers are also those involved in the creation of assets (i.e. those who physically place the elements in a level). Game developers can take many hats during the production of a product, that doesn't make every hat they touch a "game developer" necessarily, IMO.

I've usually thought of this as anyone who directly contributes in some way to a game's content, but that could be too restrictive. Feedback can influence design decisions, so that is at least a gray era to some degree. You could have consultants or testers that never touch a game's content but change its direction by quite a bit, though they aren't directly making any decisions.

Chronospherics said:

Well, I think QA are often disconnected from other game development roles. Just because they don't feel that they're game developers doesn't mean they aren't.

Not to mention, not all QA are equal. FQA don't touch the games code, but some technical QA roles include actively going into the game and making adjustments.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This is a good distinction. In my team I have embedded QA how actively help design feedback in early phases, they contribute to the design of features and their relevant toolset for effective testing. I definitely consider them game developers even if they do not commit any changes to version control or coordinate builds or whatever.

In general for me, it's pretty much anyone who works within the game team (which is crudely put Producers, Product Managers, Designers, Programmers, Artists, QA, Systems Engineers in my team) or the supporting technical teams (Dev Ops, Sys Ops). But honestly, I would be happy to call anyone in our company a game developer; all of the actively work to contribute to the game in some form, and each one will have influenced every game to some degree.

I believe that those who works actively on the game development and production side are the developers. At the same time, I think that all parts involved on a creation of a game are important be it on the development company/division side or the publisher side be it Marketing, QA, coordinators and many other positions so basically the people on the credits.

As a game developer, this is a bit of a strange thread to read :D